IRC log of sparql on 2012-02-07

Timestamps are in UTC.

14:59:17 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #sparql
14:59:17 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/02/07-sparql-irc
14:59:19 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs world
14:59:19 [Zakim]
Zakim has joined #sparql
14:59:21 [trackbot]
Zakim, this will be 77277
14:59:21 [Zakim]
ok, trackbot; I see SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM scheduled to start in 1 minute
14:59:22 [trackbot]
Meeting: SPARQL Working Group Teleconference
14:59:22 [trackbot]
Date: 07 February 2012
14:59:36 [AndyS]
zakim, start meeting
14:59:36 [Zakim]
I don't understand 'start meeting', AndyS
14:59:47 [AndyS]
zakim, this is 77277
14:59:47 [Zakim]
ok, AndyS; that matches SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM
15:00:15 [Zakim]
+[IPcaller.a]
15:00:20 [AndyS]
zakim, IPCaller is me
15:00:20 [Zakim]
+AndyS; got it
15:00:32 [Zakim]
+??P15
15:00:35 [cbuilara]
zakim, ??P15 is me
15:00:35 [Zakim]
+cbuilara; got it
15:00:37 [MattPerry]
MattPerry has joined #sparql
15:00:39 [swh]
swh has joined #sparql
15:00:42 [Zakim]
+ +33.4.92.38.aaaa
15:00:56 [Olivier_]
Zakim, aaaa is me
15:00:56 [Zakim]
+Olivier_; got it
15:01:10 [Zakim]
+ +1.603.897.aabb
15:01:21 [MattPerry]
zakim, aabb is me
15:01:21 [Zakim]
+MattPerry; got it
15:01:41 [AndyS]
zakim, who is on the phone?
15:01:41 [Zakim]
On the phone I see AndyS, kasei, [IPcaller.a], cbuilara, Olivier_, MattPerry
15:02:13 [alexpassant]
Zakim, IPcaller.a is me
15:02:13 [Zakim]
+alexpassant; got it
15:03:17 [swh_]
swh_ has joined #sparql
15:03:19 [bglimm]
bglimm has joined #sparql
15:03:22 [Zakim]
+ +49.897.aacc
15:03:31 [AxelPolleres]
AxelPolleres has joined #sparql
15:03:34 [Zakim]
+ +44.020.843.9.aadd
15:03:40 [swh_]
Zakim, aadd is me
15:03:40 [Zakim]
+swh_; got it
15:03:41 [AndyS]
Alex - I'm you! Will flip.
15:03:44 [AxelPolleres]
Zakim, who is on the phone
15:03:46 [Zakim]
I don't understand 'who is on the phone', AxelPolleres
15:03:49 [AndyS]
zkiam, IPCaller.a is me
15:03:51 [alexpassant]
Zakim, AndyS is me
15:03:54 [Zakim]
+alexpassant; got it
15:03:59 [AndyS]
zakim, IPCaller.a is me
15:04:02 [Zakim]
sorry, AndyS, I do not recognize a party named 'IPCaller.a'
15:04:04 [swh]
voip not working for me today, had to call US
15:04:07 [AndyS]
zakim, IPcaller.a is me
15:04:07 [Zakim]
sorry, AndyS, I do not recognize a party named 'IPcaller.a'
15:04:09 [AxelPolleres]
Zakim, who is on the phone?
15:04:09 [Zakim]
On the phone I see alexpassant.a, kasei, alexpassant, cbuilara, Olivier_, MattPerry, +49.897.aacc, swh_
15:04:20 [AxelPolleres]
Zakim, aacc is probably me
15:04:20 [Zakim]
+AxelPolleres?; got it
15:04:21 [Zakim]
-alexpassant
15:04:36 [alexpassant]
Zakim, who is on the phone?
15:04:36 [Zakim]
On the phone I see alexpassant.a, kasei, cbuilara, Olivier_, MattPerry, AxelPolleres?, swh_
15:04:37 [alexpassant]
I'm here
15:04:42 [Zakim]
+[IPcaller]
15:04:43 [AndyS]
zakim, IPcaller is me
15:04:43 [Zakim]
+AndyS; got it
15:04:46 [alexpassant]
sure
15:04:51 [alexpassant]
Zakim: alexpassant.a is me
15:04:57 [AxelPolleres]
scribe: Alexpassant
15:05:01 [alexpassant]
Zakim, alexpassant.a is me
15:05:01 [Zakim]
+alexpassant; got it
15:05:05 [AxelPolleres]
chair: axelPolleres
15:05:22 [AxelPolleres]
agenda: http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/Agenda-2012-02-07
15:05:41 [swh]
Zakim, swh_ is me
15:05:41 [Zakim]
+swh; got it
15:06:18 [swh]
AxelPolleres, BTW, the UK number on the agenda no longer works
15:06:27 [AxelPolleres]
regrets: Lee, sandro
15:06:56 [AxelPolleres]
ACTION: axel to mail sandro about loss of UK number
15:06:57 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-586 - Mail sandro about loss of UK number [on Axel Polleres - due 2012-02-14].
15:07:06 [alexpassant]
french number seems also down
15:07:10 [alexpassant]
topic: admin
15:07:13 [AxelPolleres]
topic: admin
15:07:28 [AxelPolleres]
PROPOSED: Approve minutes at http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2012-01-31
15:07:35 [Olivier_]
french phone number does not work
15:08:21 [AxelPolleres]
RESOLVED: Approve minutes at http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2012-01-31
15:08:23 [alexpassant]
AxelPolleres: no comments about last minutes
15:08:27 [alexpassant]
… approving minutes
15:08:38 [AxelPolleres]
Next regular meeting: 2012-02-14 @ 15:00 UK / 10:00 EST
15:08:39 [alexpassant]
… next meeting in a week
15:08:46 [Olivier_]
regrets for next week
15:08:57 [cbuilara]
regrets for next week too
15:09:26 [AxelPolleres]
nicholas or steve to scribe next time
15:09:28 [alexpassant]
… scribe will be SteveH
15:09:39 [AxelPolleres]
topic: RDF liaison
15:09:44 [alexpassant]
… liaison with RDF WG
15:09:50 [alexpassant]
AndyS: several things to report
15:09:57 [alexpassant]
… first one is about QUADS
15:10:02 [alexpassant]
… proposed to adopt TRIG to dump RDF stores
15:10:17 [alexpassant]
… one issue is that the WG is not decided if QUADS will be used for NG
15:10:27 [alexpassant]
… may lead to 2 architectures for named graphs in W3C
15:11:51 [alexpassant]
… no decision yet
15:12:26 [AxelPolleres]
topic: comments
15:12:28 [chimezie]
chimezie has joined #sparql
15:12:36 [AndyS]
I updated the comments: http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/Comments
15:12:37 [alexpassant]
AxelPolleres: 2 pending comments
15:12:45 [alexpassant]
… one already discussed on the list
15:12:49 [AxelPolleres]
JP-4 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg-comments/2012Jan/0009.html
15:12:49 [AndyS]
7 LC comments
15:12:52 [alexpassant]
… JP-4
15:13:02 [alexpassant]
… would like to open discussion about it
15:14:27 [alexpassant]
AndyS: bglimm discussed issues between properties path and entailment
15:14:33 [alexpassant]
… may be marked as optional feature
15:14:39 [bglimm]
I wrote an email about it just before the teleconf: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2012JanMar/0128.html
15:15:04 [alexpassant]
AxelPolleres: no option to mark something as optional.
15:15:13 [alexpassant]
… can be not normative / informative, not sure there's other alternative
15:16:10 [alexpassant]
AndyS: clash between styles, more UC-driven versus computational-theory background
15:19:17 [alexpassant]
AxelPolleres: should probably answer that 1) we value their work to point the issue and give options for optimization 2) tone that down for CR version of their paper
15:21:39 [alexpassant]
… their paper propose an orthogonal way to look at property path
15:22:39 [AndyS]
DISTINCT(:p*)
15:22:48 [AndyS]
:q/DISTINCT(:p*)/:r
15:23:03 [AndyS]
?x :q/DISTINCT(:p*)/:r ?z .
15:24:03 [Zakim]
+ +1.216.368.aaee
15:24:09 [AndyS]
zakim, who is on the phone?
15:24:09 [Zakim]
On the phone I see alexpassant, kasei, cbuilara, Olivier_, MattPerry, AxelPolleres?, swh, AndyS, +1.216.368.aaee
15:24:16 [chimezie]
Zakim, +1.216.368.aaee is me
15:24:16 [Zakim]
+chimezie; got it
15:24:18 [kasei]
I agree with AndyS about defaulting to the counting semantics
15:24:21 [chimezie]
Zakim, mute me
15:24:21 [Zakim]
chimezie should now be muted
15:25:09 [AxelPolleres]
q?
15:25:31 [alexpassant]
Olivier_: may have a DISTINCT keyword in the path. could help to solve the problem
15:25:45 [alexpassant]
… could also build artificial queries w/o path that are very expensive
15:26:20 [AxelPolleres]
Zakim, who is on the phone?
15:26:20 [Zakim]
On the phone I see alexpassant, kasei, cbuilara, Olivier_, MattPerry, AxelPolleres?, swh, AndyS, chimezie (muted)
15:26:23 [alexpassant]
I haven't checked the issue in detail
15:26:40 [swh]
FWIW I read the mail, but haven't implemented PPs, so no real opinion
15:27:12 [cbuilara]
Ihavent checked the email in detail
15:27:29 [AxelPolleres]
Strawpoll... We keep defaulting to counting paths semantics (+1)
15:27:35 [swh]
0
15:27:36 [kasei]
+1
15:27:38 [MattPerry]
+1
15:27:44 [cbuilara]
0
15:27:51 [alexpassant]
0
15:27:51 [chimezie]
0 (not very well swapped into issue(s))
15:27:55 [bglimm]
0 (not being able to follow the spoken discussion)
15:28:08 [AndyS]
+1
15:28:22 [AndyS]
Also - issue about another LC cycle.
15:28:24 [AxelPolleres]
0
15:28:49 [Olivier_]
0 need to think about it more
15:29:05 [alexpassant]
AxelPolleres: no one strongly to change the default behavior
15:29:24 [kasei]
are we discussing adding the DISTINCT(pp) thing in 1.1? or just leaving it open for the future?
15:29:36 [AxelPolleres]
Andy: Another LC cycle is anyways necessary if we change the grammar
15:30:11 [chimezie]
i would like to be swapped in, just didn't find the time to read the email(s) in detail - so inclined to concur with WG
15:31:23 [AxelPolleres]
probably discuss with team contacts whether this is still possible in our current schedule
15:34:49 [AxelPolleres]
Option 1... keep everything as it is in the grammar, and explain which DISTINCT path subqueries can be optimized, Option 2 ... add DISTINCT around paths.
15:35:52 [AxelPolleres]
ACTION: Axel to summarize option 1 and 2 in email
15:35:52 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-587 - Summarize option 1 and 2 in email [on Axel Polleres - due 2012-02-14].
15:36:04 [AxelPolleres]
we strive for a decision next week.
15:37:06 [alexpassant]
AxelPolleres: next comment MO-1
15:37:07 [AxelPolleres]
next one: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg-comments/2012Jan/0010.html
15:37:11 [kasei]
Andy suggested new wording: "sd:availableGraphs Relates an instance of sd:Service to a description of the __usable__ graphs where the service limits the scope of the construction of a dataset either via the SPARQL Protocol, with FROM/FROM NAMED clauses in a query, or with USING/USING NAMED in an update request."
15:38:42 [kasei]
("__usable__" wording is mine)
15:38:45 [AndyS]
I'm +1 to reply whether SD doc changes and leave the decision to the editor.
15:38:54 [AndyS]
I'm +1 to reply whether SD doc changes or not and leave the decision to the editor.
15:38:57 [AxelPolleres]
"allowed?"
15:39:26 [alexpassant]
kasei: will make change about wording if everyone is ok
15:39:39 [kasei]
current wording: "Relates an instance of <a href="#sd-Service"><code>sd:Service</code></a> to a description of the graphs that may be used in the construction of a dataset either via the SPARQL Protocol, with FROM/FROM NAMED clauses in a query, or with USING/USING NAMED in an update request."
15:42:21 [AxelPolleres]
ACTION: kasei to draft a reply to MO-1 with better wording to the list
15:42:21 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-588 - Draft a reply to MO-1 with better wording to the list [on Gregory Williams - due 2012-02-14].
15:42:58 [AxelPolleres]
topic: test cases/implementations
15:43:00 [AndyS]
q+ to note action 579
15:43:02 [AxelPolleres]
http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/implementations/
15:45:13 [AxelPolleres]
ACTION: Andy to ping lee on ACTION-579 and in case draft a respective mail to comments/dev lists
15:45:13 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-589 - Ping lee on ACTION-579 and in case draft a respective mail to comments/dev lists [on Andy Seaborne - due 2012-02-14].
15:45:15 [AndyS]
ack me
15:45:15 [Zakim]
AndyS, you wanted to note action 579
15:46:58 [AxelPolleres]
PROPOSED: approve test cases http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/tests/summary.html#exists01-http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/tests/summary.html#exists05
15:47:07 [kasei]
+1
15:47:08 [AxelPolleres]
+!
15:47:12 [AxelPolleres]
+1
15:47:13 [Olivier_]
+1
15:47:15 [AndyS]
+1
15:47:17 [MattPerry]
+1
15:47:25 [chimezie]
+1
15:47:31 [swh]
+
15:47:33 [swh]
+1
15:47:44 [AxelPolleres]
RESOLVED: approve test cases http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/tests/summary.html#exists01-http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/tests/summary.html#exists05
15:48:02 [alexpassant]
AxelPolleres: next topic : update TC
15:48:10 [alexpassant]
… discussion on COPY and MOVE
15:49:39 [alexpassant]
… can approve all TC except COPY-5 and MOVE-5
15:50:14 [AxelPolleres]
PROPOSED: approve non-classified update use cases, except http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/tests/summary.html#move05 and http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/tests/summary.html#copy05
15:50:22 [kasei]
+1
15:50:26 [MattPerry]
+1
15:52:00 [swh]
I'm not confident about MOVE COPY at the moment
15:52:38 [AxelPolleres]
PROPOSED: approve non-classified update use cases, except http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/tests/summary.html#move?? and http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/tests/summary.html#copy??
15:52:48 [AxelPolleres]
+1
15:53:03 [kasei]
+1
15:53:04 [Olivier_]
+1
15:53:06 [MattPerry]
+1
15:53:10 [AxelPolleres]
+1
15:53:14 [AndyS]
+1
15:53:35 [alexpassant]
+1
15:53:36 [AxelPolleres]
RESOLVED: approve non-classified update use cases, except http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/tests/summary.html#move?? and http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/tests/summary.html#copy??
15:53:58 [AxelPolleres]
Zakim, who is on the phone?
15:53:58 [Zakim]
On the phone I see alexpassant, kasei, cbuilara, Olivier_, MattPerry, AxelPolleres?, swh, AndyS, chimezie (muted)
15:54:34 [AxelPolleres]
can we approve json-res/manifest#jsonres01
15:55:09 [kasei]
I have no idea why we didn't approve it before, but that certainly seems like it would be relevant...
15:56:58 [AxelPolleres]
http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2011-08-16#resolution_2
16:00:18 [AndyS]
kasei, the triple for non-classified wasn't removed. Will fix.
16:00:24 [AndyS]
kasei: the triple for non-classified wasn't removed. Will fix.
16:01:43 [Zakim]
-swh
16:01:58 [MattPerry]
bye
16:01:58 [Zakim]
-chimezie
16:02:02 [AndyS]
ADJOURNED
16:02:06 [Zakim]
-cbuilara
16:02:07 [Zakim]
-Olivier_
16:02:08 [Zakim]
-MattPerry
16:02:09 [Zakim]
-alexpassant
16:02:13 [Zakim]
-AndyS
16:02:16 [AxelPolleres]
we'll discuss the copy and move test cases next week and I'll drop paul a mail where he is regarding the update rewording.
16:02:17 [Zakim]
-kasei
16:02:40 [Zakim]
-AxelPolleres?
16:02:41 [Zakim]
SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM has ended
16:02:41 [Zakim]
Attendees were kasei, cbuilara, +33.4.92.38.aaaa, Olivier_, +1.603.897.aabb, MattPerry, alexpassant, +49.897.aacc, +44.020.843.9.aadd, AxelPolleres?, AndyS, swh, chimezie
16:02:44 [kasei]
I'll update the test manifests with the new approval status.
16:02:48 [alexpassant]
RRSAgent: make minutes
16:02:48 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/02/07-sparql-minutes.html alexpassant
17:45:10 [bglimm]
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Zakim has left #sparql
18:08:55 [kasei]
are there minutes from today's meeting?
18:46:57 [alex]
alex has joined #sparql
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swh has joined #sparql
20:27:07 [alex]
alex has joined #sparql
20:50:37 [alex]
alex has joined #sparql
21:03:21 [alex]
alex has joined #sparql
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alex has joined #sparql
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alex has joined #sparql
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