20:58:19 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #audio
20:58:19 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/02/06-audio-irc
20:58:22 <olivier> zakim, this will be audio
20:58:23 <Zakim> ok, olivier, I see RWC_Audio()4:00PM already started
20:58:53 <Zakim> +??P9
20:58:53 <olivier> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-audio/2012JanMar/0117.html
20:59:08 <quinnirill> Zakim, P9 is me
20:59:08 <Zakim> sorry, quinnirill, I do not recognize a party named 'P9'
20:59:16 <cwilso> cwilso has joined #audio
20:59:21 <quinnirill> Zakim, ??P9 is me
20:59:21 <Zakim> +quinnirill; got it
20:59:25 <olivier> Agenda+ F2F Follow Up
20:59:25 <olivier> Agenda+ Greetings New Members
20:59:25 <olivier> Agenda+ getUserMedia Discussion
20:59:25 <olivier> Agenda+ MIDI APIs and Charter
20:59:25 <olivier> Agenda+ Intro to Use Case Priorities
20:59:43 <olivier> zakim, code?
20:59:43 <Zakim> the conference code is 28346 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), olivier
20:59:49 <jernoble> Zakim, who is here?
20:59:49 <Zakim> On the phone I see +1.408.772.aaaa, quinnirill
20:59:50 <Zakim> On IRC I see cwilso, RRSAgent, Zakim, jernoble, roc, olivier, colinbdclark, Ronny, foolip, F1LT3R_, shepazu, trackbot, paul___irish, kinetik, quinnirill
20:59:59 <jernoble> Zakim, aaaa is me
21:00:00 <Zakim> +jernoble; got it
21:00:23 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
21:00:34 <kinetik> zakim, ipcaller is me
21:00:34 <cwilso> cwilso has joined #audio
21:00:35 <Zakim> +kinetik; got it
21:01:11 <Zakim> +ChrisWilson
21:01:48 <roc> argh, skype crash
21:02:09 <Zakim> +??P1
21:02:13 <olivier> zakim, p1 is me
21:02:13 <Zakim> sorry, olivier, I do not recognize a party named 'p1'
21:02:18 <olivier> zakim, ??p1 is me
21:02:18 <Zakim> +olivier; got it
21:02:34 <olivier> zakim, who is here?
21:02:34 <Zakim> On the phone I see jernoble, quinnirill, kinetik, ChrisWilson, olivier
21:02:35 <Zakim> On IRC I see cwilso, RRSAgent, Zakim, jernoble, roc, olivier, colinbdclark, Ronny, foolip, F1LT3R_, shepazu, trackbot, paul___irish, kinetik, quinnirill
21:02:37 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
21:02:42 <Zakim> +??P3
21:02:58 <Zakim> + +1.978.314.aabb
21:03:12 <olivier> agenda?
21:03:18 <F1LT3R> F1LT3R has joined #audio
21:03:22 <joe> joe has joined #audio
21:03:41 <roc> look like I need to reboot Windows :-(
21:03:51 <Alistair> Sure thing.
21:03:52 <olivier> Scribe: Olivier
21:03:53 <roc> uh, I'll be back
21:03:56 <olivier> Chair: Alistair
21:04:40 <Zakim> + +1.650.253.aacc
21:05:07 <cwilso> cwilso has left #audio
21:05:13 <cwilso> cwilso has joined #audio
21:05:18 <chris> chris has joined #audio
21:05:53 <Zakim> +Doug_Schepers
21:08:25 <roc> roc has joined #audio
21:09:56 <olivier> Zakim, take up agendum 1
21:09:56 <Zakim> agendum 1. "F2F Follow Up" taken up [from olivier]
21:10:29 <Zakim> +[IPcaller.a]
21:12:40 <quinnirill> Zakim, IPCaller.a is roc
21:12:40 <Zakim> +roc; got it
21:13:00 <olivier> Olivier: summary of the f2f meeting. focus on use cases and requirements
21:13:34 <olivier> zakim, take up agendum 2
21:13:34 <Zakim> agendum 2. "Greetings New Members" taken up [from olivier]
21:14:03 <olivier> Phil Burke (SP?) introduces himself - working with Tom White on Midi, joined today
21:14:14 <olivier> s/Burke/Burk/
21:14:26 <Zakim> - +1.978.314.aabb
21:14:42 <olivier> Zakim, Take up agendum 3
21:14:42 <Zakim> agendum 3. "getUserMedia Discussion" taken up [from olivier]
21:14:44 <Zakim> + +1.978.314.aadd
21:15:25 <olivier> Zakim, aaad is Joe
21:15:25 <Zakim> sorry, olivier, I do not recognize a party named 'aaad'
21:15:37 <olivier> Zakim, 1.978.314.aadd is Joe
21:15:37 <Zakim> sorry, olivier, I do not recognize a party named '1.978.314.aadd'
21:15:51 <quinnirill> Zakim, aadd is Joe
21:15:51 <Zakim> +Joe; got it
21:17:23 <Alistair> Start of getUserMedia discussion on mailing list: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-audio/2012JanMar/0054.html
21:18:52 <olivier> Olivier: discussion started by Robin who mentioned getUserMedia API
21:19:13 <olivier> … evolved into a discussion about audio inputs, MIDI inputs, and MIDI APIs in general
21:19:29 <olivier> … a lot of interest in MIDI APIs, we'd have to change our charter
21:19:31 <roc> ok
21:19:42 <roc> how do I get myself in the Zakim queue again?
21:19:48 <olivier> q+ roc
21:20:12 <cwilso> q+
21:20:13 <olivier> zakim, who is making noise?
21:20:37 <Zakim> olivier, listening for 19 seconds I heard sound from the following: [IPcaller] (2%), ??P3 (97%), +1.650.253.aacc (2%), roc (2%)
21:20:43 <olivier> [discussion on privacy concerns]
21:21:37 <roc> how does the queue work?
21:21:50 <olivier> q?
21:21:55 <olivier> ack roc
21:22:22 <philburk> philburk has joined #audio
21:22:30 <olivier> ROC: important to get user opt-in before giving access to MIDI (or any) device
21:22:54 <olivier> … don't want to expose more info than we need to about user system (can be used to track user)
21:23:16 <olivier> … shouldn't have access to enumeration before getting user agreement
21:23:32 <olivier> ROC: think getUserMedia is a good place to get this kind of information
21:23:41 <shepazu> q+
21:24:04 <olivier> Crogers?: applicable to game controllers too?
21:24:10 <olivier> ROC: Not sure
21:24:25 <olivier> ack cwilso
21:24:58 <olivier> ChrisWilson: difference between MIDI devices and devices connected by MIDI
21:25:18 <olivier> … little concern about MIDI IOs, but would be concerned by enumeration of all my devices
21:25:18 <Alistair> ack
21:25:25 <olivier> ack sh
21:25:48 <shepazu> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-media-capture/
21:25:50 <shepazu> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-media-capture/2012Feb/0000.html
21:26:11 <olivier> Doug: if we want to participate in this discussion around getUserMedia, should join the mailing-list
21:26:16 <olivier> … reasonably low-traffic
21:26:46 <olivier> … TF from deviceAPI WG and WebRTC WG, would welcome participants from AudioWG
21:27:24 <olivier> … upcoming teleconference (Thu Feb 9 at 5PM CET, 4PM GMT)
21:28:00 <olivier> Alistair: would be good to have a couple of volunteers
21:28:20 <olivier> Doug: volunteer(s) to be the point person(s)?
21:28:33 <olivier> Alistair: ventures names of ROC and CWilso
21:29:05 <olivier> (Jussi's name also mentioned)
21:29:37 <olivier> CRogers: difficult if you don't know which audio devices to choose
21:29:50 <olivier> ROC: you get tokens for e.g audio, midi
21:29:57 <olivier> … and the system selects given its constraints
21:30:05 <olivier> Alistair: let's take it to the ML
21:30:34 <olivier> Doug: would be good to decide now, while we're on the topic
21:30:54 <olivier> … or at least within the day, since the teleconf is in 2 days
21:31:26 <olivier> … If interested, please join 
21:31:45 <olivier> PBurk: checking my calendar, should be able to join
21:32:00 <olivier> ROC: Not sure I have enough experience in MIDI?
21:32:06 <olivier> … but can probably be involved
21:33:05 <olivier> Alistair: does the getUserMedia raise any issue with our use case for Music Production Tool? Joe?
21:33:07 <kinetik> kinetik has joined #audio
21:34:00 <olivier> Joe: would hope that getting permission to expose the devices to the app would suffice
21:34:14 <olivier> CWilso: looking at proposal Jussi sent today, I think you can do that
21:34:32 <roc> q+
21:34:34 <olivier> … no credibility that inputs/outputs would always be enumerated in the same way
21:35:00 <olivier> … similar from most APIs, they don't swap for no reason
21:35:06 <Alistair> ack roc
21:35:27 <olivier> ROC: does MIDI give a unique id to each device?
21:35:50 <shepazu> q+
21:35:55 <olivier> PBurk: at the OS level
21:38:04 <cwilso> q+ to remind Doug you can give yourself notes on what you were gonna say
21:38:23 <shepazu> q+ to tell cwilso he's a smartypants
21:38:25 <shepazu> q-
21:38:29 <cwilso> q-
21:39:04 <olivier> Zakim, take up agenda 5
21:39:04 <Zakim> agendum 5. "Intro to Use Case Priorities" taken up [from olivier]
21:39:37 <olivier> Doug: may be useful, both for us and others interested in our work 
21:40:05 <olivier> … two things pre-eminent here are games and the use cases from WebRTC
21:40:16 <olivier> … would like to introduce ideas of priorities
21:40:25 <olivier> … maybe 1
21:40:29 <olivier> … to 5
21:40:42 <olivier> … we could always have a v2
21:40:56 <olivier> q+
21:41:08 <olivier> q+ to ask if priority needs to be at UC or req level
21:41:31 <olivier> Jer: agrees
21:41:34 <chris`> chris` has joined #audio
21:42:06 <olivier> Doug: should take it to the ML
21:44:22 <olivier> Olivier: not sure if we should prioritize Use Cases or Requirements. What is the granularity we should be using?
21:44:51 <olivier> Doug: would suggest to prioritize Use Cases, and infer what are the important requirements as a result
21:46:08 <Zakim> -quinnirill
21:46:27 <Zakim> +??P6
21:46:50 <quinnirill> Zakim, ??P6 is me
21:46:50 <Zakim> +quinnirill; got it
21:47:38 <olivier> Olivier: would like people to look through the doc, especially since it has changed a lot at f2f
21:47:51 <olivier> Agenda+ rechartering for MIDI APIs
21:47:57 <olivier> zakim, take up agendum 6
21:47:57 <Zakim> agendum 6. "rechartering for MIDI APIs" taken up [from olivier]
21:48:49 <olivier> Doug: would amend the charter to include this new work, we'd describe what we want the API to do
21:49:08 <olivier> q+
21:49:21 <olivier> q-
21:49:43 <olivier> Doug: then the draft would be taken to the AC
21:49:57 <olivier> … in the meantime we can start an editor's draft
21:50:25 <roc> gotta run
21:50:31 <Zakim> -roc
21:50:40 <shepazu> q+ to ask about differences between APIs
21:50:59 <olivier> Topic: differences between APIs
21:51:14 <olivier> Doug: a few people have asked on the list, what are the differences
21:51:24 <olivier> … am not comfortable doing it myself, think it is important
21:51:35 <olivier> … suggest Chris and ROC are best 
21:51:39 <olivier> +1
21:51:50 <olivier> Doug: suggests starting a wiki page 
21:52:00 <olivier> … to explain the difference
21:52:22 <olivier> Crogers: may be controversial
21:52:50 <olivier> Doug: we can be objective about what makes them different
21:52:58 <olivier> … rather than talk about "qualities"
21:53:29 <olivier> Joe: would be valuable to state differences wrt use cases
21:53:39 <olivier> (general hum of agreement)
21:54:24 <olivier> Joe: also have trouble grasping the detail of the media stream API
21:54:42 <olivier> Jussi: more integration with webRTC
21:55:39 <olivier> Alistair: more of a callback system than a graph system
21:55:42 <quinnirill> sorry, my mic is pretty bad
21:55:56 <olivier> Doug: might not be best to discuss while ROC is not here
21:56:03 <chris> Web Audio integration with WebRTC: https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/audio/raw-file/tip/webaudio/webrtc-integration.html
21:56:13 <olivier> … make it into the agenda for next week, discuss on wiki/list til then
21:56:57 <olivier> Joe: am aware of the spec, but not developed enough
21:57:08 <olivier> … would like to understand better
21:57:28 <olivier> ACTION: Doug to start page on differences between API, encourage people to add content 
21:57:29 <trackbot> Created ACTION-30 - Start page on differences between API, encourage people to add content  [on Doug Schepers - due 2012-02-13].
21:58:18 <olivier> CRogers: in response to Jussi, link on integration of Web Audio API with WebRTC: https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/audio/raw-file/tip/webaudio/webrtc-integration.html
21:58:30 <olivier> Doug: "More integrated" is perhaps a too high level claim
21:58:50 <olivier> … going into details about the difference in integration would be better
21:59:03 <olivier> q+
22:00:36 <olivier> Olivier: would like to agree with idea to look at the differences at the use case level
22:00:50 <olivier> … how each of them approaches the use cases, with examples
22:01:01 <olivier> Alistair: should we wait until we have priorities?
22:01:11 <olivier> Doug: think it will be a 2-way street
22:01:15 <olivier> ADJOURNED
22:01:18 <Zakim> -ChrisWilson
22:01:19 <Zakim> -[IPcaller]
22:01:20 <Zakim> -jernoble
22:01:22 <Zakim> -olivier
22:01:23 <Zakim> -Doug_Schepers
22:01:23 <Zakim> -kinetik
22:01:25 <Zakim> -quinnirill
22:01:26 <Zakim> - +1.650.253.aacc
22:01:28 <Zakim> -Joe
22:05:10 <olivier> rrsagent, make minutes
22:05:10 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/02/06-audio-minutes.html olivier
22:05:43 <olivier> zakim, bye
22:05:43 <Zakim> leaving.  As of this point the attendees were +1.408.772.aaaa, quinnirill, jernoble, kinetik, ChrisWilson, olivier, [IPcaller], +1.978.314.aabb, +1.650.253.aacc, Doug_Schepers,
22:05:43 <Zakim> Zakim has left #audio
22:05:46 <Zakim> ... roc, +1.978.314.aadd, Joe
22:05:47 <olivier> rrsagent, bye
22:05:54 <olivier> rrsagent, make logs public
22:06:01 <olivier> rrsagent, make minutes
22:06:01 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/02/06-audio-minutes.html olivier
22:06:05 <olivier> rrsagent, bye
22:06:05 <RRSAgent> I see 1 open action item saved in http://www.w3.org/2012/02/06-audio-actions.rdf :
22:06:05 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Doug to start page on differences between API, encourage people to add content  [1]
22:06:05 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/02/06-audio-irc#T21-57-28