IRC log of au on 2012-02-06

Timestamps are in UTC.

19:48:37 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #au
19:48:37 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/02/06-au-irc
19:48:44 [Jan]
Zakim, this will be AUWG
19:48:44 [Zakim]
ok, Jan; I see WAI_AUWG()3:00PM scheduled to start in 12 minutes
19:48:49 [Jan]
Meeting: WAI AU
19:49:19 [Jan]
Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-au/2012JanMar/0023.html
19:49:24 [Jan]
Chair: Jan Richards
19:49:52 [Jan]
Regrets: Cherie E., Tim B.
19:50:03 [Jan]
Regrets: Cherie E., Tim B., Jutta Treviranus (partial)
19:58:05 [andrewronksley]
andrewronksley has joined #au
19:58:35 [Zakim]
WAI_AUWG()3:00PM has now started
19:58:42 [Zakim]
+Jeanne
20:00:42 [Zakim]
+??P1
20:01:27 [Zakim]
+[IPcaller]
20:02:41 [Jan]
zakim, [IPcaller] is really Jan
20:02:41 [Zakim]
+Jan; got it
20:02:57 [Jan]
zakim, ??P1 is really Andrew
20:02:57 [Zakim]
+Andrew; got it
20:03:15 [Zakim]
+ +1.571.765.aaaa
20:03:20 [Zakim]
+ +1.561.582.aabb
20:03:42 [Zakim]
+[Microsoft]
20:03:43 [Jan]
zakim, aaaa is really Greg
20:03:44 [Zakim]
+Greg; got it
20:03:54 [Jan]
zakim, aabb is really Sueann
20:03:54 [Zakim]
+Sueann; got it
20:04:07 [Jan]
zakim, [Microsoft] is really Alex
20:04:07 [Zakim]
+Alex; got it
20:04:25 [Greg]
Greg has joined #au
20:04:47 [jeanne]
scribe: jeanne
20:04:48 [Jan]
Scribe: jeanne
20:05:35 [Jan]
Topic: 1. Update on WAI-CG "accessible content" discussion (if any)
20:05:57 [Jan]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-au/2012JanMar/0023.html
20:06:38 [Jan]
2. Copy-paste and ATAG2 Guideline B.1 proposals
20:06:44 [Jan]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-au/2012JanMar/0022.html
20:07:09 [jeanne]
Jeanne: No meeting has been scheduled yet, as not everyone has answererd and there is already no time in common.
20:07:20 [Jan]
Alastair's email: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-au/2012JanMar/0021.html
20:07:26 [Jan]
zakim, who's here?
20:07:26 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Jeanne, Andrew, Jan, Greg, Sueann, Alex
20:07:27 [Zakim]
On IRC I see Greg, andrewronksley, RRSAgent, Zakim, Jan, jeanne, trackbot
20:07:37 [jeanne]
present+ Jeanne, Andrew, Jan, Greg, Sueann, Alex
20:08:29 [jeanne]
JR: Alastair isn't here, so it is difficult to proceed without his feedback.
20:08:48 [jeanne]
... looking at his comments: [reads from email]
20:08:53 [Zakim]
+Tim_Boland
20:09:11 [jeanne]
present+ Tim_Boland
20:10:43 [jeanne]
JR: If they do know about the formats, map them correctly; if they aren't sure, they can warn that some info may be lost; or have manual checking so that the person knows that current content has accessibility problems.
20:12:19 [jeanne]
... text alternatives: If tools have gone to the trouble of making sure that some information is preserved, we would expect them to bring the text alternatives.
20:12:45 [Jan]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-au/2012JanMar/0022.html
20:13:41 [jeanne]
JB: The first part of the proposal is adding a note: [quotes from email] that copy paste are not transform operations.
20:14:29 [Jan]
Resolution: All agree to add note to content transformations ""NOTE: Clipboard operations, in which content is copied to or pasted from the platform clipboard, are not considered content transformations."" (http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-au/2012JanMar/0022.html)
20:15:19 [Jan]
[2] A note is added to B.1.2.1 referring to the special case of text alternatives for non-text content (B.1.2.3)
20:15:26 [Jan]
[3] Rewording (c) to be clear that it applies only if the session remains open. Also, added note 2 and note 3 which allowed (c) and (d) to be combined.
20:18:44 [Jan]
Old text:
20:18:49 [Jan]
(c) Automatic Checking: After the transformation, accessibility checking is automatically performed; or
20:18:50 [Jan]
(d) Checking Suggested: After the transformation, the authoring tool prompts authors to perform accessibility checking.
20:22:24 [jeanne]
JR: If the tool is only exporting this format, then it has to do a or b. We are only talking about transformations where the output is claimed to be accessible.
20:23:46 [jeanne]
Alex: I am still not sure about wording. (c) is automatic and (d) is informing the user. Doesn't this require automatic checking?
20:23:55 [jeanne]
JR: This is covered in the note.
20:25:30 [jeanne]
JR: An example. A tool that exports pdf. After the export, you can't edit the pdf, but the session prompts that a manual check be perform. -- A manual check wouldn't be appropriate.
20:31:00 [jeanne]
Alex: WCAG talks about accessibility supported technology, so text paragraphs would be accessible, because almost none of the WCAG SC would apply. But if you start to use title, etc, then it would fail because the technology wouldn't support it.
20:31:29 [jeanne]
JR: so a tab delimited table would fail because the technology wouldn't support.
20:33:10 [jeanne]
JR: Adding the note
20:33:12 [Jan]
Proposed note: Note 1: For text alternatives for non-text content, see success criterion B.1.2.4.
20:36:28 [jeanne]
Alex: It would be nice to harmonize the text.
20:36:32 [Jan]
CURRENT: B.1.2.1 Restructuring and Recoding Transformations (WCAG): If the authoring tool provides restructuring transformations or re-coding transformations, then at least one of the following is true: (Level A to meet WCAG 2.0 Level A success criteria; Level AA to meet WCAG 2.0 Level A and AA success criteria; Level AAA to meet all WCAG 2.0 success criteria)
20:36:34 [Jan]
(a) Preserve: Accessibility information (WCAG) is preserved in the output; or
20:36:35 [Jan]
(b) Warning: Authors have the default option to be warned that accessibility information may be lost (e.g., when saving a vector graphic into a raster image format); or
20:36:37 [Jan]
(c) Automatic Checking: After the transformation, accessibility checking is automatically performed; or
20:36:39 [Jan]
(d) Checking Suggested: After the transformation, the authoring tool prompts authors to perform accessibility checking.
20:36:40 [Jan]
Note: This success criteria only applies to transformations in which the output technology is an "included" technology for conformance.
20:37:11 [Jan]
B.1.2.1 Restructuring and Recoding Transformations (WCAG): If the authoring tool provides restructuring transformations or re-coding transformations, if equivalent mechanisms exist in the web content technology of the output. then at least one of the following is true:
20:37:43 [jeanne]
Alex: We could get rid of note 2...
20:37:53 [jeanne]
JR: Note 2 is still needed for conformance
20:38:11 [Jan]
Note 2: This success criteria only applies to transformations in which the output technology is "included" for conformance.
20:38:16 [Jan]
Note: This success criteria only applies when the output technology is "included" for conformance.
20:39:10 [jeanne]
[slight preference for 2nd]
20:39:27 [Jan]
Resolution: All agree to use this wording for the notes: "This success criteria only applies when the output technology is "included" for conformance."
20:39:58 [Jan]
What about: Note 1: For text alternatives for non-text content, see success criterion B.1.2.4.?
20:43:00 [jeanne]
Jeanne: I like the note because I think it is helpful to direct people to use the document.
20:44:05 [Jan]
Resolution: Add "Note 1: For text alternatives for non-text content, see success criterion B.1.2.4." to B.1.2.1
20:44:42 [Jan]
Resolution: All agree to "B.1.2.1 Restructuring and Recoding Transformations (WCAG): If the authoring tool provides restructuring transformations or re-coding transformations, if equivalent mechanisms exist in the web content technology of the output. then at least one of the following is true:"
20:45:30 [Jan]
Topic: A new SC is added to address preservation during "internal" copy-paste:
20:46:57 [jeanne]
all copy/paste that is put in in a structured way will preserve the structure.
20:47:06 [Jan]
B.1.2.2 Copy-Paste Inside Authoring Tool: If the authoring tool provides for copy-paste of *structured content* within the authoring tool, then any accessibility information (WCAG) in the copied content is preserved. (Level A to meet WCAG 2.0 Level A success criteria; Level AA to meet WCAG 2.0 Level A and AA success criteria; Level AAA to meet all WCAG 2.0 success criteria)
20:47:26 [Jan]
B.1.2.2 Copy-Paste Inside Authoring Tool: If the authoring tool supports copy-paste of *structured content* within the authoring tool, then any accessibility information (WCAG) in the copied content is preserved. (Level A to meet WCAG 2.0 Level A success criteria; Level AA to meet WCAG 2.0 Level A and AA success criteria; Level AAA to meet all WCAG 2.0 success criteria)
20:47:27 [Zakim]
+[IPcaller]
20:47:40 [Zakim]
-Sueann
20:47:43 [Jan]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-au/2012JanMar/0022.html
20:47:45 [jeanne]
Alex: Is 'provide' the correct word? It would be in conjunction with the underlying OS. 'Supports' would be better.
20:49:02 [jeanne]
... the use case in Android with an unstructured clipboard, then accessibility is treated like everything. If it is hacked to keep structure information, then accessibility information is also saved.
20:51:09 [jeanne]
[no objections]
20:51:23 [Jan]
Resolution: All accept "B.1.2.2 Copy-Paste Inside Authoring Tool: If the authoring tool supports copy-paste of *structured content* within the authoring tool, then any accessibility information (WCAG) in the copied content is preserved. (Level A to meet WCAG 2.0 Level A success criteria; Level AA to meet WCAG 2.0 Level A and AA success criteria; Level AAA to meet all WCAG 2.0 success criteria)"
20:53:10 [Jan]
zakim, [IPcaller] is really Jutta
20:53:10 [Zakim]
+Jutta; got it
20:53:54 [Zakim]
-Tim_Boland
20:59:59 [Zakim]
-Greg
21:00:03 [Zakim]
-Alex
21:00:04 [Zakim]
-Jan
21:00:06 [Zakim]
-Jeanne
21:00:13 [Zakim]
-Andrew
21:00:18 [Zakim]
-Jutta
21:00:19 [Zakim]
WAI_AUWG()3:00PM has ended
21:00:21 [Zakim]
Attendees were Jeanne, Jan, Andrew, +1.571.765.aaaa, +1.561.582.aabb, Greg, Sueann, Alex, Tim_Boland, Jutta
21:00:23 [Jan]
RRSAgent, make minutes
21:00:23 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/02/06-au-minutes.html Jan
21:00:31 [Jan]
RRSAgent, set logs public
21:00:37 [Jan]
Zakim, bye
21:00:40 [Zakim]
Zakim has left #au
21:00:42 [Jan]
RRSAgent, bye
21:00:42 [RRSAgent]
I see no action items