16:00:42 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #rd
16:00:42 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/02/02-rd-irc
16:00:44 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
16:00:46 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 7394
16:00:47 <trackbot> Meeting: Research and Development Working Group Teleconference
16:00:47 <trackbot> Date: 02 February 2012
16:00:55 <sharper> rrsagent, make logs public
16:01:00 <sharper> zakim, agenda?
16:01:23 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #rd
16:01:46 <sharper> zakim, agenda?
16:01:50 <giorgio> hi there. is the audio channel working at all?
16:02:42 <markel> markel has joined #rd
16:02:55 <Zakim> I see nothing on the agenda
16:02:57 <Peter> hmm not sure - had trouble connecting to the Zakim VOIP thingy - am trying again
16:03:45 <sharper> I'm in
16:04:27 <giorgio> Simon, you mean the audio works?
16:04:34 <sharper> Chair: Harper_Simon
16:04:35 <sharper> Agenda+ Welcome & Logistics (Regrets, Agenda Requests, Comments)
16:04:35 <sharper> Agenda+ Discuss availability and meeting timing (please fill out the survey) https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/47076/RDWG_meeting_time/
16:04:35 <sharper> Agenda+ W3C Note Update
16:04:36 <sharper> Agenda+ Mobile Topic and Editors
16:04:36 <sharper> Agenda+ Third and Fourth Note Resource Discussion
16:04:38 <sharper> Agenda+ Any Other Business
16:04:48 <sharper> zakim, save agenda
16:04:58 <sharper> zakim, take up item 1
16:06:05 <Zakim> ok, sharper, the agenda has been written to http://www.w3.org/2012/02/02-rd-agenda.rdf
16:06:13 <Zakim> agendum 1. "Welcome & Logistics (Regrets, Agenda Requests, Comments)" taken up [from sharper]
16:07:20 <Peter> :) Need a volunteer?
16:07:37 <Peter> (hate it when that happens :( 
16:07:51 <sharper> scribe: Kouroupetroglou_Christos
16:08:04 <sharper> ScribeNick: christos
16:08:26 <sharper> zakim, close item 1
16:08:27 <sharper> zakim, take up item 2
16:09:23 <Zakim> agendum 1, Welcome & Logistics (Regrets, Agenda Requests, Comments), closed
16:09:26 <Zakim> I see 5 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
16:09:28 <Zakim> 2. Discuss availability and meeting timing (please fill out the survey) https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/47076/RDWG_meeting_time/ [from sharper]
16:09:31 <Zakim> agendum 2. "Discuss availability and meeting timing (please fill out the survey) https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/47076/RDWG_meeting_time/" taken up [from sharper]
16:10:15 <christos> sharper: You can see the results in the survey page 
16:11:10 <giorgio> what is the alternative?
16:12:05 <christos> peter: I don't have problem with wednesdays
16:12:33 <christos> shaerper: we could also probably do ti on wdnesdays
16:12:40 <giorgio> ok with me
16:12:45 <markel> I'm okay to moving to Wed
16:13:18 <Peter> (aka magic zakim command)
16:13:34 <sharper> RESOLVED: Move to Wednesdays 14:30 - 15:30 UTC - every respondent can attend.
16:14:04 <shadi> action: shadi to get RDWG teleconference moved to Wednesdays 14:30 - 15:30 UTC
16:14:04 <trackbot> Created ACTION-7 - Get RDWG teleconference moved to Wednesdays 14:30 - 15:30 UTC [on Shadi Abou-Zahra - due 2012-02-09].
16:14:37 <sharper> zakim, close item 2
16:14:37 <Zakim> agendum 2, Discuss availability and meeting timing (please fill out the survey) https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/47076/RDWG_meeting_time/, closed
16:14:38 <sharper> zakim, take up item 3
16:14:40 <Zakim> I see 4 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
16:14:40 <Zakim> 3. W3C Note Update [from sharper]
16:14:40 <Zakim> agendum 3. "W3C Note Update" taken up [from sharper]
16:16:19 <christos> giorgio: we are still making small changes in the draft and in the moment we have a .odt file 
16:16:54 <christos> giorgio: in the first part there is a introduction on metrics
16:17:15 <christos> giorgio: next we have the contributions from papers 
16:17:47 <christos> giorgio: then we hane a classification of the papers and contributions 
16:18:32 <christos> giorgio: the final section is the issues that are important for future research
16:19:45 <christos> giorgio: what is now needed  is some formatting
16:19:59 <christos> giorgio: and references and some cleanup
16:20:18 <christos> giorgio: we worked together with markel
16:20:46 <christos> markel: is the formating necesary now?
16:21:12 <christos> giorgio: i would leave the formating for the end
16:21:48 <christos> giorgio: It would be good to discuss now how we want to proceed
16:22:24 <christos> sharper: I think it should be best that iread it first 
16:22:40 <christos> sharper: or do it in parallel
16:22:56 <christos> giorgio: the problem is with writting
16:23:11 <christos> giorgio when writting in parallel
16:23:51 <shadi> [[we need (1) and "editor draft" (in HTML format) for the group to review and approve; then (2) from that develop a "public working draft" that meets W3C publication rules (note the timelines needed for each of these steps)]]
16:23:53 <christos> sharper: i think i'll read it first and then make some changes and comments and then we can move it around to a wider audience
16:24:16 <christos> sharper: how long would it take ues to read it?
16:24:56 <shadi> i would like to see it too, to make sure there are no publication-stopper surprises down the line
16:25:06 <christos> sharper: then let's send ti to all and then discuss it on next meeting
16:25:14 <shadi> +1
16:25:36 <christos> sharper: it is more convinient todo all our changes and then discuss it 2 weeks time
16:25:48 <giorgio> q+
16:26:00 <shadi> [[usually we do not recommend group reviews shorter than a week]]
16:26:11 <christos> markel: how will we distribute the document
16:26:11 <Peter> +1 (or it would be quite difficult merge our changes together if done in parallel)
16:26:12 <christos> ?
16:27:05 <shadi> ideally distribution should be in HTML format as a "W3C Editor Draft" ; for example http://www.w3.org/WAI/ER/methodology/
16:27:14 <christos> sharper: i think it;s better to annotate the document ourselves and then discuss it all together
16:28:16 <christos> giorgio: We are not going to need so much time to read it... it is better to set a deadlin for the next week
16:28:35 <shadi> [[usually comments are sent to an archived list but this is not essential for an internal draft]]
16:28:35 <Peter> (1 week is fine for me to read the document)
16:29:06 <christos> giorgio: being an editor I wouldn't like to have 10 different versions to integrate
16:29:54 <christos> giorgio: having a token to circulate it might be a better way
16:30:17 <giorgio> ok simon
16:30:20 <christos> sharper: I can;t read it in one week
16:30:48 <christos> sharper: I'm not suggesting that you merge them
16:31:14 <christos> sharper: first we all read it and then discuss it paragraph by paragraph
16:31:16 <giorgio> ok, we can try.
16:31:44 <christos> sharper: that's the way it works with giudelines too
16:32:11 <giorgio> yes that's true.
16:32:17 <shadi> [[usually editors will request comments in a structured format like "location (section, paragraph, etc)", "text to be changed", "suggested change", "rationale"]]
16:32:23 <christos> sharper: so it will be easier that you think, the token might take 10 weeks
16:32:37 <Peter> we could time box each paragraph to a time limit
16:32:59 <christos> sharper: I think, there will be agreement easier than you think
16:33:13 <shadi> [[editors then process these comments and bring back the ones that need discussion by the group]]
16:33:34 <Peter> +1 (sounds good)
16:33:40 <shadi> [[usually not necessary to discuss each paragraph]]
16:33:40 <christos> sharper: we could also time limit each paragraph dicussion
16:34:54 <christos> sharper: the deadlines are not really the problem
16:35:24 <christos> markel: I agree, we should focus on good content
16:37:06 <giorgio> q+ dropbox
16:38:42 <sharper> All: the general plan is to move from w3c convention slightly as this is a special case - let us all read the document within 2 weeks, then at the meeting in two weeks move through paragraph by paragraph raising any issues, discussing them, and reaching consensus - then move that paragraph into HTML format. The result will be Shadi's w3c Editors Draft which we will then conform to normal w3c operating processes as he suggests. If we are spending way too much ti
16:38:42 <sharper> each paragraph we will timebox them as per Peter's suggestions.
16:38:57 <sharper> ack dropbox
16:39:02 <sharper> ack gio
16:39:11 <christos> giorgio: we might have a problem with sharing the document
16:39:43 <christos> sharper: we could also have it as a public dropbox url
16:40:05 <christos> giorgio: OK I'll make it public
16:40:55 <christos> markel: we can make it public tomorrow
16:40:59 <sharper> RESOLVED: All: the general plan is to move from w3c convention slightly as this is a special case - let us all read the document within 2 weeks, then at the meeting in two weeks move through paragraph by paragraph raising any issues, discussing them, and reaching consensus - then move that paragraph into HTML format. The result will be member:Shadi's w3c Editors Draft which we will then conform to normal w3c operating processes as he suggests. If we are spendin
16:40:59 <sharper> too much time on each paragraph we will timebox them as per member:Peter's suggestions. Giorgio to share dropbox url document location for the group.
16:42:56 <christos> shaper: could you tell us about the mobile topic?
16:43:04 <sharper> zakim, close item 3
16:43:04 <Zakim> agendum 3, W3C Note Update, closed
16:43:04 <sharper> zakim, take up item 4
16:43:06 <Zakim> I see 3 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
16:43:06 <Zakim> 4. Mobile Topic and Editors [from sharper]
16:43:06 <Zakim> agendum 4. "Mobile Topic and Editors" taken up [from sharper]
16:43:27 <christos> peter: the topic is quite broad
16:44:18 <christos> sharper: is there anybody else to be an editor for mobile?
16:44:20 <markel> can we put which three?
16:45:14 <sharper> So, we have been thinking about the next topic and specifically the mobile topic - maybe combining the following three into one:
16:45:14 <sharper> Accessible Mobile Web Applications <http://www.w3.org/WAI/RD/wiki/Accessible_Mobile_Web_Applications> (Guidelines, Mobile, Assistive Technologies)
16:45:15 <sharper> http://www.w3.org/WAI/RD/wiki/Accessible_Mobile_Web_Applications
16:45:15 <sharper> Mobile Accessibility <http://www.w3.org/WAI/RD/wiki/Mobile_Accessibility> (Guidelines, Mobile.)
16:45:15 <sharper> http://www.w3.org/WAI/RD/wiki/Mobile_Accessibility
16:45:17 <sharper> Touch Interfaces <http://www.w3.org/WAI/RD/wiki/Touch_Interfaces> (Touch Events, Pad Computing, Trackpad)
16:45:19 <sharper> http://www.w3.org/WAI/RD/wiki/Touch_Interfaces
16:45:21 <sharper> We wondered if you guys would be interested in being editors and doing this next, I'd like to be involved but I think we (as you'll see from the minutes) need to spread resources over the year.
16:45:24 <sharper> What do you guys think?
16:45:42 <sharper> Sent to Peter and Yeliz
16:46:03 <sharper> Both responded to make as one topic, and accept editorship
16:46:08 <christos> sharper: this was sent to peter an yeliz...
16:46:24 <giorgio> I'm happy
16:46:24 <markel> go for it!
16:46:28 <sharper> Are we all happy for this to occur
16:46:34 <christos> sharper: are we ok with this?
16:46:41 <sharper> Group says yes.
16:46:50 <christos> ok from me too
16:47:33 <markel> :-)
16:48:00 <christos> zakim, close item 4
16:48:00 <Zakim> agendum 4, Mobile Topic and Editors, closed
16:48:01 <Zakim> I see 2 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
16:48:01 <Zakim> 5. Third and Fourth Note Resource Discussion [from sharper]
16:48:10 <christos> zakim, take up item 5
16:48:10 <Zakim> agendum 5. "Third and Fourth Note Resource Discussion" taken up [from sharper]
16:48:44 <christos> sharper : I don;t know if we will ahve the resources for the next webinars
16:49:11 <sharper> http://www.w3.org/WAI/RD/wiki/Main_Page
16:49:17 <christos> sharper: does anyone have any preference for the third topic
16:49:38 <christos> sharper: if not we cna do this next week
16:50:55 <Peter> (This looks like an interesting topic from Shadi http://www.w3.org/WAI/RD/wiki/Easy_to_Read)
16:51:41 <christos> christos: i would be interested in the web inclusion and augmented reality
16:51:41 <shadi> [[yes, Andrea Petz from University of Linz has been adding to this topic]]
16:52:12 <markel> "Accessible Ads" looks very original http://www.w3.org/WAI/RD/wiki/Accessible_Ads
16:53:30 <christos> sharper: I'll create a space on next weeks meeting for discussing and tell shadi to prepare a survey
16:54:00 <christos> sharper: i think its time we finish this
16:54:23 <giorgio> I will also go to w4a
16:54:50 <markel> w4a unconference on Wed
16:56:23 <shadi> yes, i will wrap them up and send them out, as usual
16:56:42 <shadi> thanks and sorry for the no-audio
16:56:59 <giorgio> ok
16:57:00 <christos> sharper: i'll see you on next week
16:57:01 <giorgio> bye
16:57:03 <christos> bye
16:57:09 <Peter> cheers everyone
16:57:51 <sharper> RESOLVED: Lets leave the meeting on Thursday next week, move to wednesday the week after to leave people time to arrange their calendars
16:57:57 <sharper> sharper has left #rd
17:05:07 <shadi> zakim, who is on the phone?
17:05:07 <Zakim> sorry, shadi, I don't know what conference this is
17:05:07 <Zakim> On IRC I see RRSAgent, nonge, shadi, Mate, trackbot
17:05:25 <shadi> trackbot, end meeting
17:05:25 <trackbot> Zakim, list attendees
17:05:26 <Zakim> sorry, trackbot, I don't know what conference this is
17:05:33 <trackbot> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
17:05:33 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/02/02-rd-minutes.html trackbot
17:05:34 <trackbot> RRSAgent, bye
17:05:34 <RRSAgent> I see 1 open action item saved in http://www.w3.org/2012/02/02-rd-actions.rdf :
17:05:34 <RRSAgent> ACTION: shadi to get RDWG teleconference moved to Wednesdays 14:30 - 15:30 UTC [1]
17:05:34 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/02/02-rd-irc#T16-14-04