16:01:19 RRSAgent has joined #htmlt
16:01:19 logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/01/31-htmlt-irc
16:01:44 plh has joined #htmlt
16:01:54 like many past meetings we'll do tihs on IRC unless someone wants to dial in
16:02:34 We'll wait a few more minutes incase someone else attends
16:06:04 Oh right, a meeting
16:06:16 Lets get going...
16:06:24 Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-testsuite/2012Jan/0006.html
16:06:59 Item #1 Bugs on Approved Tests
16:08:25 No new bugs and no change in status for bugzilla bug#15042/#15041
16:08:40 Agenda Item #2 New Test Submissions
16:08:53 I going to submit some new test(s)
16:09:02 \o/
16:09:12 They will be some appcache tests (events)
16:09:56 Ms2Ger submitted some more test for Mozilla
16:09:56 http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/html/shortlog/
16:11:09 For document.all
16:11:30 See http://w3c-test.org/html/tests/submission/Ms2ger/obsolete-features/requirements-for-implementations/other-elements-attributes-and-apis/
16:11:34 (I still feel dirty)
16:12:19 no comment....
16:12:42 This was in response to a spec change, fwiw
16:15:25 Opera might like to see these tests, I recall they added document.all to Opera (compat?)
16:15:51 We all have document.all, I'm afraid
16:16:29 Ms2ger also added an xhtml test event-for test as well (thx)
16:16:30 http://w3c-test.org/html/tests/submission/Ms2ger/the-elements-of-html/scripting/the-script-element/script-for-event.xhtml
16:19:19 Item #3 ARIA Mapping Testing
16:19:40 This came up at last weeks HTML5 conf call, so I added it to the agenda
16:20:19 speclet -> http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/html-api-map/raw-file/tip/Overview.html
16:21:38 It intresting that a test would need to account for what a platforms accessibility API exists and use that to API
16:23:06 E.g. Linux would test that a elements role was ROLE_SYSTEM_TEXT
16:24:24 Since ATK/IAcessible2 is supported on linux (I'm not a linux expert)
16:27:18 Though on a MAC the test would have to use AX and confirm it was a AXGroup
16:28:17 Does anyone have any strong feelings about how to test the ARIA mappings?
16:31:37 I know nothing about a11y, I'm afraid
16:32:05 ArtB?
16:32:25 I asked on #wam but Art is busy at the moment
16:32:32 FWIW we have been discussing a web socker server internally as well
16:32:40 Kris: is it the role of html wg to test the mapping?
16:33:25 Finding a server that can be supported (w3c systems ask) and can be used to simulate bad responses
16:33:26 Kris, ah then, be aware that we're looking into it. Mike is planning to install a php web sockets server I believe
16:33:45 Turns out that most web socket servers like to follow the protocol :)
16:34:03 if anyone else has a strong preference on a web sockets server, they should go and convince Mike
16:34:41 I don't think anyone has any strong feelings about a specific server, just need one that covers the ability to test all the assertions in the spec
16:35:08 James, re your request to move resources into a separate repository: I talked to our mercurial root and he indicates that he has no way to move the history of the files, ie, we're going to loose the history if we do the move. How do you feel about that?
16:36:14 For example "When the user agent validates the server's response during the "establish a WebSocket connection" algorithm, if the status code received from the server is not 101 (e.g. it is a redirect), the user agent must fail the websocket connection."
16:37:10 my guess is that we'll have to simulate some of those
16:37:26 *plh to many thread hold off on the coffee
16:37:54 sorry, doing too many things simultaneously :)
16:38:12 Kris: is it the role of html wg to test the mapping?
16:38:48 Well in theory 3rd party accessibility software vendors are going to depend upon the mapping being accurate
16:39:11 So they can build correct accessibility tools
16:40:02 The other part is if a specific mapping is correct - for example I believe Microsoft can confirm the MSAA and UIA mappings
16:40:32 Though others may also have an opion on the mapping, since I recall that Firefox supports MSAA
16:40:55 phl: Does that make sense?
16:41:51 it makes, I was just wondering if the mapping was done by us or the WAI PF group
16:43:57 I was not looking at it from that point of view, rather the HTML5 spec seems to list a bunch of normative requirements which means we need some tests
16:44:43 Happy to discuss in the ally meeting (next tuesday Feb 7th?)
16:44:50 Anyhow it
16:45:31 Anyhow it's not urgent but we should start the discussion - even knowing if people have or don't have strong opinons on the work is good to know
16:45:37 looking at http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/html-api-map/raw-file/tip/Overview.html, the assumption is that it's done in the html wg
16:45:52 so yes, talking with a11y folks at their next html a11y could help
16:46:13 on the team side, Michael Cooper is the one in charge of ensuring this is going to happen
16:46:45 I could ask him to join us if needed
16:47:25 sounds good
16:48:39 krisk, I hear suggestions to talk to Frank Olivier and Cynthia Shell, if you haven't already
16:48:59 Kris, I'm going to be on the road in two weeks but I could ask Michael Cooper to get in touch with you
16:49:10 Shelly, I should say
16:49:36 I send email to see if we can discuss this at the next ally meeting
16:50:12 sounds the good approach
16:50:49 James any updates on your 'experiment' with github?
16:52:03 I guess jgraham isn't around
16:52:54 OK
16:53:05 any other agenda items or shall we adjourn?
16:53:21 ok to adjourn for me
16:53:25 +1
16:53:37 Meeting adjourned
16:53:49 RRSAgent, make logs public
17:00:32 plh has left #htmlt
17:09:10 krisk: Sorry, was otherwise engaged. I haven't done more with the github thing, but in theory I like the idea more and more every day
17:20:18 OK
17:20:48 Feel free to take a peek at the meeting note when I send them out
17:21:15 Not sure if Opera has a strong view on ARIA mapping testing
17:23:54 I, like Ms2ger, don't know enough about the requirements here to have a useful opinion
18:48:26 Is the ARIA stuff visible apart from how a browser represents it to a11y APIs?