IRC log of xproc on 2012-01-26

Timestamps are in UTC.

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14:58:11 [Norm]
Meeting: XML Processing Model WG
14:58:11 [Norm]
Date: 26 January 2012
14:58:11 [Norm]
14:58:11 [Norm]
Meeting: 207
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Chair: Norm
14:58:14 [Norm]
Scribe: Norm
14:58:16 [Norm]
ScribeNick: Norm
14:58:18 [Norm]
rrsagent, set logs world-visible
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XML_PMWG()10:00AM has now started
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15:00:41 [Norm]
zakim, passcode?
15:00:41 [Zakim]
the conference code is 97762 (tel:+1.617.761.6200, Norm
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zakim, ??p20 is jfuller
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+jfuller; got it
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15:01:49 [Norm]
zakim, who's here?
15:01:49 [Zakim]
On the phone I see ht, Norm, Vojtech, jfuller, Alex_Milows
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On IRC I see Vojtech, alexmilowski, RRSAgent, Zakim, Norm, jfuller, ht, caribou
15:01:59 [Norm]
zakim, alex_milows is alexmilowski
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+alexmilowski; got it
15:02:07 [Norm]
zakim, who's here?
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Regrets: Mohamed
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On the phone I see ht, Norm, Vojtech, jfuller, alexmilowski
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On IRC I see Vojtech, alexmilowski, RRSAgent, Zakim, Norm, jfuller, ht, caribou
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15:02:40 [Norm]
Present: Henry, Norm, Vojtech, Jim, Alex, Cornelia, Carine
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15:04:18 [Norm]
Topic: Accept this agenda?
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Topic: Accept minutes from the previous meeting?
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Topic: Next meeting: telcon, 2 February 2012
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No regrets heard.
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Topic: Review of open action items
15:05:16 [Norm]
A-206-01: continued
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A-206-02: continued
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A-206-03: completed
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Topic: Processor profiles WD published
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Norm: Yay us.
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ACTION: Norm to setup the last call comment list for new LCWD
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Topic: Rechartering troubles
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Norm: We got pushback on the charter; one of the possible solutions is to put FPWD of 2.0 in the charter.
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Carine: We got pushback because the goals weren't defined clearly enough.
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...I was also surprised to see that issue of Rec-track documents as pushback. We've done that before for requirements and use cases.
15:10:57 [Norm]
Some discussion of the clarity of our goals.
15:12:34 [Norm]
Norm: So, basically, if we want to do, we'll need to have a workshop or some other event to gauge interest. And if we don't put in the charter, we won't get chartered.
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Carine: I think that's basically the case.
15:14:05 [Norm]
Norm: Liam suggests putting FPWD of 2.0 and the possibility of a workshop in the charter. Maybe we should do that.
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Cornelia: And why wouldn't we do that, isn't that what we want to do?
15:14:32 [Norm]
Henry: Yes, but earlier conversations suggested that we weren't ready to do 2.0.
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Alex: But we have community feedback for 2.0
15:14:49 [Norm]
Henry: Yes, I think Liam just needs help writing that: point to wiki, point to mailing list.
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ACTION: Norm to work with Liam to get a new charter proposal drafted along those lines.
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Topic: XProc discussion
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Norm: I sent a list of low-hanging fruit items.
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Norm: And Vojtech observes that it doesn't anything about non-XML.
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...And I think maybe we could do something smallish about that.
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Vojtech: I was thining especially about small stuff.
15:17:02 [Norm]
...Like if you could save binary data, with p:store.
15:18:10 [Norm]
...To make it more symetrical. We have p:load with p:document and p:data but we have nothing to store binary data.
15:18:27 [Norm]
Norm: Yes, and an option on p:store seems pretty straightfoward.
15:20:24 [Norm]
Vojtech: What I did is just what Norm did, I added an extension to p:store. But mine was a bit more generic in the sense that both and XML and non-XML data can flow through the pipeline. Whatever the p:store gets, it saves it.
15:20:59 [Norm]
...I was thinking about p:document and p:data and their relationship. At the moment I didn't want to change that much. I changed p:data so that it can produce binary data that's not base64 encoded.
15:21:19 [Norm]
...But I wonder if p:document, if you point it to binary data, whether it should do the same thing. Or if p:data should return XML.
15:23:24 [Norm]
15:23:51 [Norm]
Norm: We should consider a proposal to do some work in this area; being able to load XML, HTML, JSON, etc.
15:24:05 [Norm]
Jim: In the past, have we ever talked about p:document*s*?
15:24:25 [Norm]
Henry: Yes, the possibility of having a set of documents flowing through the pipeline was there in the Markup pipeline. We did discuss it briefly, a while ago.
15:24:53 [Norm]
...But it's not low-hanging fruit. You have to talk about how to generate names for these things; it really has to be a map so that steps down the pipeline can extract documents from the set.
15:25:37 [Norm]
Jim: But multiple p:document elements can be used. That might let you implement something like an ant fileset.
15:26:46 [Norm]
Vojtech: So like in ant, you could specify a base URI and some sort of mask, so you get a sequence of files.
15:27:44 [Norm]
Jim: it's a little awkward to work with sets of files and baking in at that level would remove the contortion from some pipelines.
15:28:38 [Norm]
Norm: That seems like it might be low hanging fruit; you could implement it yourself.
15:28:45 [Norm]
Jim: Yes, but it wouldn't bake in at the p:input level.
15:29:40 [Norm]
Norm: Yeah, I can see that.
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...I'll add that to the low-hanging fruit.
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Alex: With AVTs, I can imagine that we might be able to do the same sort of thing with HTTP URIs.
15:30:44 [Norm]
...So if you had a set of documents, you could iterate with numerical positions, perhaps.
15:31:10 [Norm]
Vojtech: You can also imagine doing this on the p:load step.
15:32:22 [Norm]
Jim: I've got one other thing. I did an experiment with my implementation, I enabled "AVT-everywhere".
15:32:39 [Norm]
Norm: You mean you made "{" and "} expand everywhere all the time.
15:32:56 [Norm]
Vojtech: But what if you want to include an XSLT pipelien?
15:33:02 [Norm]
Jim: You can turn it on and off.
15:33:50 [Norm]
Norm: I don't understand how that works.
15:34:00 [Norm]
Jim: There are lots of details; I just made them up.
15:34:48 [Norm]
Alex: That sounds a little bit like an alternative pipeline syntax.
15:35:19 [Norm]
Norm: I'd like to see some examples.
15:36:13 [Norm]
Norm runs through his list
15:36:56 [jfuller]
completely agree on xpath 2.0 going forwards
15:41:45 [Norm]
Vojtech: There's also the question of optional not-specified options.
15:45:29 [jfuller]
15:48:45 [Norm]
Discussion inevitably returns to parameters.
15:51:27 [Norm]
Cornelia: I think another area we should be looking at is mashup-technologies. Those should be using XProc.
15:51:47 [jfuller]
be great Cornelia if you have any links to mashups tech
15:52:39 [Norm]
Norm: I'll summarize again the low-hanging fruit and then I'd like everyone to think about whether or not that list is complete.
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Topic: Any other business
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None heard.
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rrsagent, draft minutes
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I have made the request to generate Norm
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XML_PMWG()10:00AM has ended
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Attendees were ht, Norm, Vojtech, jfuller, alexmilowski, Cornelia, Carine
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