15:45:35 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #webtv
15:45:35 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/01/26-webtv-irc
15:45:47 <kaz> Meeting: Media Pipeline TF call
15:49:50 <kaz> agenda: http://www.w3.org/2011/webtv/wiki/MPTF/Agenda_Telco_26th_January_2012
15:50:40 <Clarke> Clarke has joined #webtv
15:55:42 <Zakim> UW_WebTVIG()11:00AM has now started
15:55:49 <Zakim> +Mark_Watson
15:56:57 <Zakim> +??P15
15:57:09 <Clarke> zakim, ??P15 is Clarke
15:57:09 <Zakim> +Clarke; got it
16:00:02 <Clarke> kaz, are you there?
16:00:09 <duncanr> duncanr has joined #webtv
16:00:41 <Zakim> +Duncan
16:00:47 <Zakim> +??P38
16:00:54 <kaz> zakim, P38 is me
16:00:59 <kaz> zakim, ??P38 is me
16:01:13 <Zakim> sorry, kaz, I do not recognize a party named 'P38'
16:01:19 <Zakim> +kaz; got it
16:01:45 <kaz> zakim, drop kaz
16:01:45 <Zakim> -kaz
16:01:52 <kaz> zakim, call kazuyuki-617
16:01:57 <Zakim> + +1.408.475.aaaa
16:02:06 <R_Berkoff> R_Berkoff has joined #webtv
16:02:09 <Zakim> sorry, kaz, I do not see a party named 'kaz'
16:02:14 <Clarke> zakim, .aaaa is Russell
16:02:23 <kaz> zakim, drop me
16:02:25 <Zakim> ok, kaz; the call is being made
16:02:31 <Zakim> +Kazuyuki
16:02:36 <kaz> zakim, drop Kazuyuki
16:02:59 <Zakim> + +1.908.848.aabb
16:03:00 <kaz> zakim, call kazuyuki-skype
16:03:08 <Zakim> sorry, Clarke, I do not recognize a party named '.aaaa'
16:03:18 <Zakim> Kazuyuki is being disconnected
16:03:21 <Zakim> -Kazuyuki
16:03:27 <kaz> zakim, aabb is Paul
16:03:31 <Zakim> sorry, kaz, I do not see a party named 'Kazuyuki'
16:03:35 <Clarke> zakim, aabb is Paul
16:03:51 <Zakim> ok, kaz; the call is being made
16:03:53 <Zakim> +Kazuyuki
16:04:10 <Clarke> zakim, aaaa is R_Berkoff
16:04:13 <Zakim> +Paul; got it
16:04:23 <Zakim> sorry, Clarke, I do not recognize a party named 'aabb'
16:05:11 <kaz> Present, Mark_Watoson, Clarke, Duncan, Russell, Paul, Kazuyuki, Jan, Philipp
16:05:13 <Zakim> +R_Berkoff; got it
16:05:31 <Zakim> +Jan_Lindquist
16:06:16 <Zakim> +Philipp
16:06:21 <kaz> agenda: http://www.w3.org/2011/webtv/wiki/MPTF/Agenda_Telco_26th_January_2012
16:07:18 <Clarke> for today's discussion: http://www.w3.org/2011/webtv/wiki/MPTF/ADR_Error_Codes
16:07:42 <Zakim> +[Microsoft]
16:07:56 <Clarke> zakim, who is here?
16:08:18 <Zakim> On the phone I see Mark_Watson, Clarke, Duncan, R_Berkoff, Paul, Kazuyuki, Jan_Lindquist, Philipp, [Microsoft]
16:08:26 <Zakim> On IRC I see R_Berkoff, duncanr, Clarke, RRSAgent, Zakim, kaz, trackbot
16:09:12 <Zakim> +Franck?
16:09:24 <kaz> topic: model 3 solution for adaptive bit rate
16:09:37 <JanL> JanL has joined #webtv
16:10:00 <franck> franck has joined #webtv
16:10:09 <kaz> jan: not attended but question about lower/upper limit
16:10:25 <kaz> ph: content protection?
16:10:51 <kaz> jan: there was netflix proposal, but not for this week
16:11:07 <kaz> s/jan:/clarke:/
16:11:20 <kaz> clarke: Duncan was adding text
16:11:20 <duncanr> http://www.w3.org/2011/webtv/wiki/MPTF/Agenda_Telco_19th_January_2012
16:11:37 <kaz> duncan: agenda for last week
16:12:01 <kaz> clarke: seems fine to me
16:12:06 <kaz> ... any comments?
16:12:16 <kaz> jan: comment from David?
16:12:31 <kaz> clarke: discussed last week, and ok
16:13:12 <kaz> -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-web-and-tv/2012Jan/0052.html Duncan's message
16:13:27 <kaz> duncan: suggesting more generic text
16:13:35 <kaz> jan: found it
16:13:43 <kaz> ... what is the change?
16:14:14 <kaz> duncan: 1. of "4. deriverables"
16:14:26 <kaz> jan: what is the actual change?
16:14:52 <kaz> duncan: text for revised charter is included there
16:15:15 <kaz> ... that's written in "2. Updated charter statement and schedule"
16:15:18 <kaz> jan: got it
16:15:35 <kaz> clarke: next one is Jason's comment
16:15:43 <kaz> ... any comments to Jason's text?
16:15:48 <kaz> ... about CT1
16:16:08 <kaz> jan: missed the discussion during the previous call
16:17:01 <kaz> -> http://www.w3.org/2011/webtv/wiki/MPTF/ADR_Minimal_Control_Model_Proposal#Use_Cases ADR Minimal Control Model Proposal
16:17:04 <kaz> jan: looks fine
16:17:22 <kaz> clarke: and now we'd talk about CT2
16:17:56 <kaz> ... best quality might be not available
16:18:10 <kaz> ... use cases we'd require for CT2?
16:18:26 <kaz> ... Jan, do you have any comments?
16:18:35 <kaz> ... or can we just drop it?
16:18:42 <kaz> jan: sent a comment
16:18:50 <kaz> ... relationship between CT2 and CT3
16:19:14 <kaz> ... CT3 specifies lower quality, and CT2 mentions upper quality
16:19:25 <kaz> ... issues for mobile phone, etc.?
16:19:51 <kaz> clarke: general agreement on maximum bandwith
16:20:14 <kaz> jan: not talking about bandwidth but quality
16:20:21 <kaz> s/bandwith/bandwidth/
16:20:31 <kaz> clarke: how would you see it fits?
16:20:39 <kaz> ... what would you do?
16:21:02 <kaz> jan: exception error on the response
16:21:29 <kaz> markW: problem is we have no JavaScript for particular case
16:21:53 <kaz> ... maximum/minimum quality based on the bandwidth
16:22:10 <kaz> jan: how do we discover what kind of level is present?
16:22:36 <kaz> ... is it enough to specify control parameter? 
16:22:50 <kaz> ... based on upper or lower limit
16:23:14 <kaz> markW: don't think we have architectural solution
16:23:42 <kaz> ... how adaptive streaming work
16:23:57 <kaz> jan: I'd agree with you 90%
16:24:53 <kaz> clarke: sounds like kind of agreement
16:25:06 <kaz> ... CT2 could be dropped
16:25:15 <kaz> ... Jan, do you think we could drop CT3 as well?
16:25:26 <kaz> jan: both talking about same general area
16:25:36 <kaz> clarke: CT1 captures bandwidth
16:25:44 <kaz> ... CT2/3 capture quality
16:26:33 <kaz> ... suggestion is CT2 and CT3 could be removed
16:27:06 <kaz> jan: controlling buffer size
16:27:23 <kaz> ... might exceed with maximum bandwidth
16:27:43 <kaz> clarke: we can remove 2 and 3, and add note necessary speed
16:27:50 <kaz> ... make sense?
16:28:12 <kaz> ... my proposal is:
16:28:20 <kaz> ... let's drop CT2 and CT3
16:28:32 <kaz> ... and then see what would be more effective
16:28:55 <kaz> RESOLUTION: drop CT2 and CT3
16:29:26 <kaz> action: Stevens to drop CT2 and CT3
16:29:26 <trackbot> Created ACTION-91 - Drop CT2 and CT3 [on Clarke Stevens - due 2012-02-02].
16:30:04 <kaz> markW: fine with me to remove minimum bandwidth
16:30:18 <kaz> clarke: anybody wants to keep minimum bandwidth?
16:30:21 <kaz> (none)
16:30:36 <kaz> clarke: ok with dropping minimum bandwidth as well
16:30:52 <kaz> RESOLUTION: drop minimum bandwidth
16:31:29 <kaz> clarke: the rest of the agenda is discussion on model 3
16:31:34 <Zakim> -Jan_Lindquist
16:31:54 <kaz> topic: model 3 solution
16:32:07 <kaz> clarke: outlining model 3 script
16:32:08 <Zakim> +Jan_Lindquist
16:33:07 <kaz> ... the best place to start with is error code page
16:33:14 <kaz> http://www.w3.org/2011/webtv/wiki/MPTF/ADR_Error_Codes
16:33:15 <Clarke> discussion: http://www.w3.org/2011/webtv/wiki/MPTF/ADR_Error_Codes
16:33:34 <kaz> clarke: control parameters
16:33:41 <kaz> ... maximum bandwidth there
16:33:51 <kaz> ... look below
16:34:04 <kaz> ... in feedback area
16:34:10 <kaz> ... model 2, 3 support
16:34:26 <kaz> ... might be useful to talk about how we anticipate model 3 working
16:34:36 <kaz> ... any volunteer?
16:34:53 <kaz> -> http://www.w3.org/2011/webtv/wiki/MPTF/ADR_Error_Codes#Feedback Feedback
16:36:04 <kaz> duncan: the problem is we don't know about all the capability
16:36:23 <kaz> ... handle those on your manifest file
16:36:28 <kaz> ... segment size, etc.
16:37:23 <kaz> ... it would require JavaScript developer to know how to handle header, etc.
16:37:53 <kaz> markW: can start with requirments
16:37:53 <mark> mark has joined #webtv
16:38:07 <kaz> duncan: can provide explanation by email
16:38:28 <kaz> ... passing requirements for HTML.next?
16:39:00 <kaz> clarke: once we sort out our requirements, we can consider it
16:39:09 <kaz> ph: @@@
16:39:26 <kaz> clarke: that's one reason, another is providing developer to more control
16:39:51 <kaz> ... your video presents more experience
16:40:26 <kaz> @m: JavaScript decoder is built-in
16:40:35 <kaz> ... there would be big valuable
16:40:50 <kaz> ph: wanted answer about MPEG-DASH
16:41:07 <kaz> @m: another issue on appending is
16:41:37 <kaz> ... just appending whatever in the past decoded would over writes buffer
16:41:49 <kaz> markW: we shouldn't think of appending
16:42:19 <kaz> ... should require each chunk to be handled appropriately
16:42:31 <kaz> @m: two types
16:42:54 <kaz> ... segment audio/video those tracks could be interoperably handled
16:43:21 <kaz> ... video might be cut into chunks
16:43:30 <kaz> ... accurate point is needed
16:44:00 <kaz> ... common time base for audio/video is required
16:44:14 <kaz> ... what if two segments passed at same time
16:44:26 <Zakim> -R_Berkoff
16:44:40 <kaz> ... very different API is needed
16:44:43 <Clarke> q?
16:44:56 <kaz> ... independently works
16:45:21 <kaz> s/interoperalbly/independtly/
16:45:26 <Zakim> +R_Berkoff
16:45:39 <kaz> clarke: could we have a ladder diagram, etc.?
16:45:51 <kaz> ... and see what is needed for which case?
16:46:00 <kaz> ... anybody would volunteer?
16:46:12 <kaz> ... if not, I'll generate a first draft
16:46:31 <kaz> action: Stevens to create a diagram
16:46:31 <trackbot> Created ACTION-92 - Create a diagram [on Clarke Stevens - due 2012-02-02].
16:46:50 <kaz> clarke: any other questions from architectural perspective?
16:46:58 <kaz> duncan: just thinking about passing large chunks
16:47:05 <kaz> ... through JavaScript
16:47:14 <kaz> ... especially coming HTTP
16:47:26 <kaz> s/HTTP/through HTTP/
16:47:55 <kaz> ... your client may have access other than HTTP
16:48:07 <kaz> ... how to handle chunks using JavaScript?
16:48:48 <kaz> markW: (@@@much nosise@@@)
16:49:40 <kaz> Clarke: you'd necessarily put all the chunks using JavaScript
16:49:58 <Clarke> NOT necessarily
16:50:21 <kaz> s/necessarily/not necessarily/
16:50:43 <mark> I would suggest this is still modeled as a separate download capability (XmlHttpRequest) passing data to a Media Element
16:50:52 <kaz> clarke: different API might be needed
16:51:14 <kaz> ... download rate, representation ID, buffer rate
16:51:26 <kaz> ... feedback on those parameters?
16:51:40 <kaz> ... the ladder diagram should mention them
16:52:07 <mark_> mark_ has joined #webtv
16:52:24 <kaz> ... I'll put together the diagram, and ask everybody for comments
16:52:25 <Zakim> -Jan_Lindquist
16:52:36 <kaz> ... walkthrough next week
16:52:47 <mark_> (connection problems) My last point was that optimizing the data flow is something we should return to after solving the other problems
16:52:55 <kaz> ... any comments on that approach?
16:53:27 <kaz> ... comments based on your implementations would be welcome
16:53:45 <kaz> ... topics for today are done
16:53:57 <kaz> ... any other comments, topics?
16:54:16 <kaz> [adjourned]
16:54:20 <Zakim> -[Microsoft]
16:54:22 <Zakim> -Mark_Watson
16:54:23 <Zakim> -Duncan
16:54:23 <Zakim> -Paul
16:54:25 <Zakim> -Philipp
16:54:27 <Zakim> -Franck?
16:54:28 <Clarke> Thanks, ka
16:54:29 <Zakim> -R_Berkoff
16:54:31 <Clarke> ka
16:54:35 <Clarke> kaz
16:54:35 <Zakim> -Kazuyuki
16:54:40 <Zakim> -Clarke
16:54:43 <Zakim> UW_WebTVIG()11:00AM has ended
16:54:45 <Zakim> Attendees were Mark_Watson, Clarke, Duncan, kaz, +1.408.475.aaaa, Kazuyuki, +1.908.848.aabb, Paul, R_Berkoff, Jan_Lindquist, Philipp, [Microsoft], Franck?
16:55:27 <kaz> rrsagent, make log public
16:55:37 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
16:55:37 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/01/26-webtv-minutes.html kaz
16:56:19 <kaz> s/Franck?/Franck/
16:56:26 <kaz> s/m@/Kilroy/g
16:59:15 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
16:59:15 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/01/26-webtv-minutes.html kaz
17:00:27 <kaz> Present: Mark_Watoson, Clarke, Duncan, Russell, Paul, Kazuyuki, Jan, Philipp, Franck
17:01:19 <kaz> Chair: Clarke
17:01:22 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
17:01:22 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/01/26-webtv-minutes.html kaz
17:01:38 <trackbot> trackbot has joined #webtv
17:02:32 <kaz> s/@m/Kilroy/g
17:02:33 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
17:02:33 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/01/26-webtv-minutes.html kaz
17:02:45 <kaz> s/@@@/(couldn't hear)/
17:02:47 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
17:02:47 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/01/26-webtv-minutes.html kaz
17:20:00 <duncanr> duncanr has left #webtv
17:31:38 <trackbot> trackbot has joined #webtv
17:40:34 <trackbot> trackbot has joined #webtv
19:08:05 <Zakim> Zakim has left #webtv