See also: IRC log
<JAllan> rrsagent make minutes
<JAllan> levels - benefit multiple groups, how many people it benefits, how hard is it to do
<JAllan> ... how much a a barrier is eliminated
<kford> Scribe: kford
KP: I think we need to think about how many users something impacts.
<JAllan> levels - benefit multiple groups, how many people it benefits, how hard is it to do
<JAllan> ... how much a a barrier is eliminated
<JAllan> from UAAG 10
<JAllan> Priorities
<JAllan> Each checkpoint in this document is assigned a priority that indicates its importance for users with disabilities.
<JAllan> Priority 1 (P1)
<JAllan> If the user agent does not satisfy this checkpoint, one or more groups of users with disabilities will find it impossible to access the Web. Satisfying this checkpoint is a basic requirement for enabling some people to access the Web.
<JAllan> Priority 2 (P2)
<JAllan> If the user agent does not satisfy this checkpoint, one or more groups of users with disabilities will find it difficult to access the Web. Satisfying this checkpoint will remove significant barriers to Web access for some people.
<JAllan> Priority 3 (P3)
<JAllan> If the user agent satisfies this checkpoint, one or more groups of users with disabilities will find it easier to access the Web.
<JAllan> http://www.w3.org/TR/UAAG10/guidelines.html#Priorities
<jeanne> barrier, implementations, difficulty, number of people benefit
<JAllan> 3.1.4 Conformance levels
<JAllan> Each conformance level defines a set of requirements, based on priority.
<JAllan> Conformance level "A": the requirements of all Priority 1 checkpoints
<JAllan> Conformance level "Double-A": the requirements of all Priority 1 and 2 checkpoints
<JAllan> Conformance level "Triple-A": the requirements of all Priority 1, 2, and 3 checkpoints
<JAllan> http://www.w3.org/TR/UAAG10/conformance.html#conformance-levels
KP: I use an example of people
walking across a room and pausing.
... Wheu youhave to pause repeatedly you start to realize this
is a problem.
JA: When does this cross from accessibility to usability.
KP: I can be hard to judge this across many disabilities.
WD: I think the difference between accessibility and usability is easy to define.
<KimPatch> excise is work over the work you're doing
<KimPatch> excise that's a conflict between software and disability is accessibility
<JAllan> x size = amount of work beyond the task that your are doing divided by the task effort
WD: If you are in a word processor and you have to think about a bunch of other tasks just to do what you want, this is an accessibility issue.
<JAllan> software does not get in the way of what you are doing
WD: Excise comes from usability.
KP: Much of the software that we are talking about, it is easy to say this when it comes to standard software but if the software itself has issues, such as the AT, then this can problems can be present no matter what.
WD: We are not able to control what the assistive technology does but we can control is what the user agnet impacts.
JA: Explaining why we are talking about priorities. JB would like UAAG to define how priorities are arrived at.
<JAllan> more info http://www.csulb.edu/~wed/cssStrengths.html
JA: recaps how we arrived at this point.
WD: 1.7 was about stylesheets for
HTML browsers.
... I was taksed with something beyond browsers. I came up with
a concept of style profiles.
... For HTML stylesheets are really the best way to create
accessible pages for readers with low vision.
... There are problems. For example not a lot of people who can
write them, especially for end users.
<sharper> FYI http://www.w3.org/community/cssacc/
WD: I believe really want the choice between what the author gives or something they've managed to obtain and that they likely want to do this dynamically.
<JAllan> thanks Simon.
<sharper> also RDWG topic - http://www.w3.org/WAI/RD/wiki/CSS_Accessibility if anyone would like to bring this together as a webinar and w3cnote
WD: For the bread and butter HTML browser, the user should have access to choose between the author stylesheet and a user stylesheet but a user stylesheet doesn't mean that the user had to write it. Think of the stylesheet as an assisitve technology.
<sharper> Also see Vicki Hanson's work on CSS styles for older users (when she was at IBM Watson)
WD: First thing we want is true
separation.
... Second it needs to be able to address all kinds of user
populations, be flexible.
... We need an isomorphic (sp) image of the page.
... Youneed to preserve the visual symantics of the page.
... Finally you need to be able to change the interface without
author permission.
<JAllan> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2012JanMar/0027.html
JA: What I hear is that user agents should support user stylesheets, users should be able to change dynamically and turn things off.
JA goes over what he sees in WD's proposal
JA: This is different and I think less controversial than what we have today.
WD will be crafting text that reflects this discussed behavior.
KP: I liked WD's background explanation.
MH: I found it useful to hear.
Group talking about how to keep some of this background and such in the doc as an intent.
<sharper> scribe: Harper_Simon
<sharper> ScribeNick: sharper
WD: to contact http://www.w3.org/community/cssacc/ re the guidelines for their comments too.
<scribe> ACTION: Wayne to handle the rewrite of the CSS 1.7 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/01/26-ua-minutes.html#action01]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-710 - Handle the rewrite of the CSS 1.7 [on Wayne Dick - due 2012-02-02].
<JAllan> Barrier walkthrough - Giorgio Brajnik
<JAllan> www.dimi.uniud.it/giorgio/projects/bw/bw.html
<JAllan> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20120119/results
4 agree and 1 disagree
http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/2012/ED-UAAG20-20120119/#gl-missing-alt
MH: not sure how you would do this ie 1.2.1
Discussion about how we could do this - YouTube Example
KP: like the example - saying it's and advanced example an not a requirement
JS: nothing does this today - so how can this be level a?
KP: GL suggested that we'd be forced to take the advanced example - not according to the written example - is this just a working issue?
<JAllan> discussion of Levels by the group
<JAllan> ff has 'properties' associated for images (location, type, size, dimensions, associated text, and url, as well as more info) would this count as a repair
<JAllan> sh: decide on SCs first then add the levels
<JAllan> kp: need to look at the whole
KP: trying to understand the top-three from each of us.
<JAllan> kf: everyone has a budget and gets to vote on SC ...
<JAllan> sh: having the FF properties would work for 121-123
WD: important to define what can be automatically determined when deciding on levels.
JS: lets define the levels - what are they, rate stuff 1-5 and then just add this up to get the level via a numeric judgement.
KP: tweek, re how many people this may benefit.
RESOLUTION: Levels sub group - KP, KF, JS, WD
<scribe> ACTION: sharper to take a swing at 1.2 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/01/26-ua-minutes.html#action02]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-711 - Take a swing at 1.2 [on Simon Harper - due 2012-02-02].
RESOLUTION: Action-711
Everyone happy to delete
RESOLUTION: delete 5.4.2
RESOLUTION: Combine 5.2, 5.3 and 5.4 into one guideline
http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/work/wiki/Applying_UAAG_to_Mobile_Phones
KF: huge desire to understand the
mobile space better for accessibility
... our guidelines address mobile MH KP JS
JS: as a group look and endorse - and write and executive summary for it.
RESOLUTION: Whole group to review http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/work/wiki/Applying_UAAG_to_Mobile_Phones this week so we can say we agree.
KP: Did this for 2 and where mobile applies we are missing mobile examples - maybe we need mobile examples....
JA: useful
... in EX Summary - dig out our keyboard discussion - any input
device ...
JS: examples will be very helpful - concerned re scope creap
JA: Deadline is TUESDAY
RESOLUTION: Deadline is TUESDAY
JA: same examples format as standard intent
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.136 of Date: 2011/05/12 12:01:43 Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/ Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00) Succeeded: s/and/an/ Found Scribe: kford Inferring ScribeNick: kford WARNING: No scribe lines found matching previous ScribeNick pattern: <sharper> ... Found Scribe: Harper_Simon Found ScribeNick: sharper Scribes: kford, Harper_Simon ScribeNicks: sharper, kford Default Present: Jim_Allan, Jeanne, Kim_Patch, kford, Mark, Wayne, sharper Present: Jim_Allan Jeanne Kim_Patch kford Mark Wayne sharper Harper_Simon Kim Jim Kelly Regrets: Jan Greg Got date from IRC log name: 26 Jan 2012 Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2012/01/26-ua-minutes.html People with action items: sharper wayne WARNING: Input appears to use implicit continuation lines. You may need the "-implicitContinuations" option.[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]