15:56:55 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #rd
15:56:55 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/01/26-rd-irc
15:56:55 <christos> zakim, ??P14 is me
15:56:55 <Zakim> +christos; got it
15:56:57 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
15:57:00 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 7394
15:57:00 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see WAI_RDWG()11:00AM scheduled to start in 3 minutes
15:57:02 <trackbot> Meeting: Research and Development Working Group Teleconference
15:57:04 <trackbot> Date: 26 January 2012
15:57:10 <shadi> chair: Simon
15:57:53 <sharper> sharper has joined #rd
15:58:18 <Joshue108> Joshue108 has joined #rd
15:58:43 <sharper> trackbot, start meeting
15:58:45 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
15:58:47 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 7394
15:58:47 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see WAI_RDWG()11:00AM scheduled to start in 2 minutes
15:58:48 <trackbot> Meeting: Research and Development Working Group Teleconference
15:58:48 <trackbot> Date: 26 January 2012
15:58:53 <sharper> Chair: Harper_Simon
15:58:53 <sharper> Agenda+ Welcome & Logistics (Regrets, Agenda Requests, Comments)
15:58:54 <sharper> Agenda+ Discuss availability and meeting timing (please fill out the survey)
15:58:54 <sharper> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/47076/RDWG_meeting_time/
15:58:54 <sharper> Agenda+ Discuss W3C Note Status
15:58:55 <sharper> Agenda+ Discuss Next Topic
15:58:56 <sharper> Agenda+ Any Other Business 
15:59:01 <Joshue108> zakim, code
15:59:04 <Zakim> I don't understand 'code', Joshue108
15:59:10 <Joshue108> zakim, code?
15:59:10 <Zakim> the conference code is 7394 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), Joshue108
15:59:58 <sharper> zakim, save agenda
16:00:04 <Zakim> ok, sharper, the agenda has been written to http://www.w3.org/2012/01/26-rd-agenda.rdf
16:00:12 <sharper> zakim, agenda?
16:00:12 <Zakim> I see 9 items remaining on the agenda:
16:00:13 <Zakim> 1. Welcome & Logistics (Regrets, Agenda Requests, Comments) [from shadi]
16:00:17 <Zakim> 2. W3C Note Status [from shadi]
16:00:19 <Zakim> 3. Next Topic [from shadi]
16:00:21 <Zakim> 4. Any Other Business [from shadi]
16:00:25 <Zakim> 5. Welcome & Logistics (Regrets, Agenda Requests, Comments) [from sharper]
16:00:27 <Zakim> 6. Discuss availability and meeting timing (please fill out the survey) [from sharper]
16:00:29 <Zakim> 7. Discuss W3C Note Status [from sharper]
16:00:31 <Zakim> 8. Discuss Next Topic [from sharper]
16:00:37 <Zakim> 9. Any Other Business [from sharper]
16:00:40 <sharper> zakim, delete item 1
16:00:51 <Zakim> agendum 1, Welcome & Logistics (Regrets, Agenda Requests, Comments), dropped
16:00:55 <sharper> member:zakim, delete item 2
16:01:09 <sharper> zakim, delete item 2
16:01:11 <sharper> zakim, delete item 3
16:01:12 <sharper> zakim, delete item 2
16:01:18 <sharper> zakim, delete item 4
16:01:26 <sharper> zakim, save agenda
16:01:29 <Zakim> agendum 2, W3C Note Status, dropped
16:01:33 <Zakim> agendum 3, Next Topic, dropped
16:01:37 <Zakim> agendum 2, W3C Note Status, dropped
16:01:41 <Zakim> agendum 4, Any Other Business, dropped
16:01:45 <sharper> zakim, take up item 1
16:01:49 <Zakim> ok, sharper, the agenda has been written to http://www.w3.org/2012/01/26-rd-agenda.rdf
16:02:16 <Zakim> agendum 1. "Welcome & Logistics (Regrets, Agenda Requests, Comments)" taken up [from shadi]
16:02:17 <giorgio> giorgio has joined #rd
16:02:31 <sharper> regrets: Thiessen_Peter, Conway_Vivienne
16:02:48 <sharper> rrsagent, make logs public
16:02:48 <sharper> rrsagent, draft minutes
16:02:48 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/01/26-rd-minutes.html sharper
16:03:03 <sharper> zakim, code?
16:03:14 <test> test has joined #rd
16:03:24 <markel> markel has joined #rd
16:03:55 <Zakim> the conference code is 7394 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), sharper
16:04:13 <sharper> zakim, agenda?
16:05:15 <Zakim> I see 6 items remaining on the agenda:
16:05:18 <Zakim> 1. Welcome & Logistics (Regrets, Agenda Requests, Comments) [from shadi]
16:05:20 <Zakim> 5. Welcome & Logistics (Regrets, Agenda Requests, Comments) [from sharper]
16:05:23 <Zakim> 6. Discuss availability and meeting timing (please fill out the survey) [from sharper]
16:05:25 <Zakim> 7. Discuss W3C Note Status [from sharper]
16:05:28 <Zakim> 8. Discuss Next Topic [from sharper]
16:05:37 <Zakim> 9. Any Other Business [from sharper]
16:06:12 <sharper> zakim, delete item 1
16:06:19 <sharper> zakim take up item 5
16:06:29 <sharper> zakim, take up item 5
16:07:08 <Zakim> agendum 1, Welcome & Logistics (Regrets, Agenda Requests, Comments), dropped
16:07:15 <Zakim> agendum 5. "Welcome & Logistics (Regrets, Agenda Requests, Comments)" taken up [from sharper]
16:07:22 <christos> zakim, mute me
16:07:54 <Zakim> sorry, christos, I don't know what conference this is
16:09:31 <markel> I did
16:09:36 <christos> I did too
16:09:37 <giorgio> I did not!
16:09:52 <sharper> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/47076/RDWG_meeting_time/
16:10:12 <giorgio> ok: I'll do it
16:11:49 <Joshue108> scribenick: Joshue
16:12:09 <Joshue108> zakim, take up item 1
16:12:09 <Zakim> agendum 1. "Welcome & Logistics (Regrets, Agenda Requests, Comments)" taken up [from shadi]
16:12:18 <Joshue108> zakim, take up item 2
16:12:18 <Zakim> agendum 2. "W3C Note Status" taken up [from shadi]
16:12:34 <Joshue108> TOPIC: Time survey
16:12:42 <Joshue108> SS: Thoughts on the time survey?
16:13:08 <markel> how many people answered to the survey?
16:13:11 <Joshue108> SH: We thought Monday would be good. The survey looks like this is the best time.
16:13:16 <Joshue108> s/SS/SH
16:13:41 <Joshue108> SH: I looks like everyone is happy with the current time.
16:13:52 <shadi> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/47076/RDWG_meeting_time/results
16:16:10 <Joshue108> SH: Lets wait for Yeliz and Giorgio and see where we are at then.
16:16:33 <Joshue108> JOC: This time is fine for me, but I would like Weds.
16:16:42 <Joshue108> SH: Doesn't suit Christos.
16:16:48 <Joshue108> zakim, mute me
16:16:48 <Zakim> sorry, Joshue108, I don't know what conference this is
16:16:51 <giorgio> I can do it on Wed or Thursdays.
16:17:05 <Joshue108> zakim, this is 7394
16:17:05 <Zakim> ok, Joshue108; that matches WAI_RDWG()11:00AM
16:17:17 <Joshue108> SH: We will finalise it next week
16:17:59 <Joshue108> <discussion continues>
16:19:24 <shadi> zakim, mute me
16:19:24 <Zakim> Shadi should now be muted
16:19:25 <Joshue108> zakim, take up item 7
16:19:25 <Zakim> agendum 7. "Discuss W3C Note Status" taken up [from sharper]
16:19:38 <Joshue108> SH: I'll pass this over to the editors.
16:20:15 <Joshue108> M: We agreed to have an inital meeting before today but there were a couple of set backs. We have a very early draft.
16:20:30 <giorgio> q+
16:20:32 <Joshue108> MV: We will have a proper one next week that we can discuss at the meeting
16:20:41 <sharper> ack g
16:21:21 <Joshue108> GB: I want to add that I wasn't well, but we had some exchanges and an idea of the document structure.
16:21:55 <Joshue108> GB: We can show you an outline of what we want to say.
16:22:00 <Joshue108> SH: Great stuff.
16:22:02 <markel>  1  Introduction
16:22:02 <markel>  1.1  Definition and background
16:22:03 <markel>  1.2  The benefits of using metrics
16:22:03 <markel>  2  Overview of current accessibility challenges
16:22:04 <markel>  2.1  Validity
16:22:04 <markel>  2.2  Reliability
16:22:05 <markel>  2.3  Sensitivity
16:22:06 <markel>  2.4  Adequacy
16:22:09 <markel>  2.5  Tailorability
16:22:11 <markel>  3  Current research actions
16:22:13 <markel>  3.1  Addressing current challenges
16:22:15 <markel>  3.2  Tool support for metrics
16:22:17 <markel>  3.3  Addressing large scale measurement
16:22:18 <markel>  3.4  Targeting particular accessibility issues
16:22:20 <markel>  3.5  Novel measurement approaches
16:22:23 <markel>  3.6  Beyond conformance
16:22:25 <markel>  4  A research roadmap for web accessibility metrics
16:22:26 <markel>  4.1  A Corpus for benchmarking purposes
16:22:29 <markel>  4.2  User-tailored metrics
16:22:31 <markel>  4.3  Dealing with dynamic content
16:22:32 <markel>  4.4  Credibility issues
16:23:40 <Joshue108> GB: We have three parts. An intro, the context of the problem, a framework etc. Then in the middle Section 3, provides an overview of the main thrust of the seminar discussion etc. Then Section 4, finally, is the roadmap. Our view of how these issues that were raised can inform us. New directions etc.
16:24:05 <Joshue108> MV: The last section should be understood as a research program.
16:24:24 <shadi> q+
16:24:36 <Joshue108> GB: I was thinking that a new Phd student would find inspiration here.
16:24:46 <shadi> ack me
16:25:08 <giorgio> thanks shadi.
16:25:51 <Joshue108> SAZ: Thanks for making the call. The TOC looks great. I look forward to reading it. Regarding the target audience for the last section. There are also lots of discussions research such as MEAC and other national monitors.
16:26:01 <Joshue108> SAZ: This could be useful for a wider audience.
16:26:18 <sharper> This TOC looks great!
16:26:25 <sharper> q
16:26:27 <sharper> q+
16:26:27 <Joshue108> SAZ: Think of the wider audience, or is it too early?
16:27:01 <giorgio> q+
16:27:14 <Joshue108> SAZ: It may be for others and not just Phd students. It could be used to develop indicators for large scale evaluations. I hope this makes sense.
16:27:20 <sharper> ack gio
16:27:24 <markel> yes of course we are not limiting it to what GB's case study
16:28:06 <Joshue108> GB: You made a good point, this could be one type of usage. Web a11y metrics are still very immature and a lot of R and D, validation etc needs to happen for the metric to mature.
16:28:28 <Joshue108> GB: If the EU, or others want to invest in the metric at this stage I would advise caution.
16:28:42 <Joshue108> GB: I don't see metrics as being ready for industrial use.
16:28:49 <Joshue108> SAZ: Will you express this in the doc?
16:29:07 <Joshue108> GB: Yes. We will highlight the possible risks for end users.
16:30:07 <Joshue108> GB: Metrics appear to be a quick and easy solution, easy to take up and say roughly some arbitraty figure - but what does that really mean. The a11y community is not happy with this approach and we need to do something about this.
16:30:31 <Joshue108> SAZ: We need to make people aware. This kind of thing will happen anyway, so we need to provide advice.
16:30:40 <Joshue108> GB: A test corpus would be good.
16:30:44 <Joshue108> +q
16:31:13 <shadi> zakim, mute me
16:31:13 <Zakim> Shadi should now be muted
16:31:17 <sharper> ack sharper
16:31:34 <Joshue108> SH: I'm really looking forwad to reading this. How well did the contributions we got inform the decision. Was the seminar useful? Did you have to go to other places.
16:31:55 <Joshue108> GB: No, we should base it on what participants wrote and gave to the Webinar.
16:32:16 <Joshue108> SH: Did you have to interpret it or is it taken directly?
16:33:07 <Joshue108> MV: There were challenges and not all contributions addressed this.
16:33:18 <Joshue108> MV: The symposium was useful.
16:33:46 <Zakim> -[IPcaller]
16:33:50 <sharper> GB Number of metrics we didn't expect 
16:34:06 <sharper> GB metrics for lexical quality etc etc
16:34:14 <sharper> GB for example
16:34:25 <sharper> by Josh
16:34:33 <sharper> s/by/bye
16:35:24 <sharper> GB one direction that the research community could go in addressing each point individually and by so doing advance the area
16:35:40 <markel> ScribeNick: markel
16:35:48 <markel> SH: sounds really good
16:36:14 <markel> zakim, take up item 8
16:36:14 <Zakim> agendum 8. "Discuss Next Topic" taken up [from sharper]
16:36:44 <markel> SH: we should discuss the next note and probably the note after that
16:37:27 <markel> SH: in order to create a landscape for the next year; candidly it is unlikely to attract more people to the group until we show our potential to the community
16:37:28 <markel> +
16:37:55 <markel> SH: which means that is only us to work and edit on next topics and documents
16:38:25 <markel> SH: first, we should think who can the next editors be. We did a very good symposium
16:39:01 <markel> SH: I wonder what people think about that
16:39:17 <christos> q+
16:39:28 <sharper> ack josh
16:39:31 <shadi> q- josh
16:39:32 <sharper> ack chris
16:40:01 <markel> CK: I think it's a good plan for the next seminars to get ready. We can also get ready beforehand.
16:40:25 <markel> SH: right, we know now it works and there is no need to discuss these issues again
16:41:19 <markel> SH: once we got 2-3 reports we'll start to gain more people into the group that will allow us to push on
16:41:36 <markel> SH: I have the impression that people are not aware of what's going on
16:41:37 <markel> q+
16:41:46 <sharper> ack markel 
16:42:14 <markel> MV: are you suggesting we should first choose editors before topics
16:42:32 <giorgio> q+
16:42:39 <markel> SH: we should be aware which are our resources
16:43:04 <markel> SH: people should be able to put their names forward if their are interested
16:43:09 <sharper> ack giorgio 
16:43:38 <markel> GB: let's choose editors that are passionate about a topic and tell them to work on that
16:44:08 <markel> GB: emphasize on "passionate"
16:44:27 <shadi> ack me
16:44:37 <markel> SH: if we are talking about june we should have one every two months
16:44:44 <markel> SAZ: I agree.
16:45:03 <shadi> [[we are chartered to do 3-4 per year]]
16:45:07 <markel> SH: we know that YY and PT want to do he mobile stuff
16:45:48 <markel> SAZ: there's a new topic SLH is passionate about: low vision aspect
16:46:42 <markel> SH: it's just SAZ, CK and I who haven't been editors
16:47:10 <christos> q+
16:47:27 <markel> SH: maybe we should approach to Yeliz and Peter
16:47:34 <markel> MV: I agree with that
16:48:03 <markel> SH: there is another one about "Touch interfaces" and "Mobile Accessibility"
16:48:07 <giorgio> I agree with simon
16:48:20 <sharper> ack christos 
16:48:37 <markel> CK: I was ready to make the point to say that we have some overlap
16:48:43 <giorgio> q+
16:49:41 <markel> CK: I don't know if it's better to keep them separated or merge them. I think that merging them...we might end up handling many things 
16:49:49 <markel> I agree with CK
16:50:12 <sharper> ack giorgio 
16:50:48 <markel> GB: let's decide who could be de editor of the mobile thing and ask them whether they want to focus on one topic or merge different ones
16:50:54 <christos> q+
16:50:57 <markel> SH: I agree with that 100%
16:51:04 <sharper> ack christos 
16:51:31 <markel> CK: there's another topic I've already added: Augmented reality which is also related to mobile
16:51:53 <markel> SH: it could be the augmented reality on the virtual reality
16:52:15 <markel> SH: would you be an editor?
16:52:22 <markel> CK: I'm ok with that
16:53:03 <markel> SH: I'm going to speak to Yeliz and Peter and hopefully we will get them
16:53:48 <Zakim> -Shadi
16:53:49 <Zakim> -??P61
16:53:50 <Zakim> -??P33
16:53:51 <Zakim> -??P64
16:54:02 <Zakim> -christos
16:54:04 <markel> zakim, close item 7
16:54:04 <Zakim> agendum 7, Discuss W3C Note Status, closed
16:54:05 <Zakim> I see 6 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
16:54:06 <Zakim> 1. Welcome & Logistics (Regrets, Agenda Requests, Comments) [from shadi]
16:54:22 <markel> zakim, close item 8
16:54:23 <Zakim> agendum 8, Discuss Next Topic, closed
16:54:24 <Zakim> I see 5 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
16:54:26 <Zakim> 1. Welcome & Logistics (Regrets, Agenda Requests, Comments) [from shadi]
16:54:37 <markel> zakim, close item 1
16:54:37 <Zakim> agendum 1, Welcome & Logistics (Regrets, Agenda Requests, Comments), closed
16:54:40 <Zakim> I see 4 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
16:54:42 <Zakim> 2. W3C Note Status [from shadi]
16:54:42 <markel> zakim, close item 2
16:54:45 <markel> zakim, close item 3
16:54:47 <markel> zakim, close item 4
16:54:48 <Zakim> agendum 2, W3C Note Status, closed
16:54:49 <markel> zakim, close item 5
16:54:50 <Zakim> I see 3 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
16:54:54 <Zakim> 5. Welcome & Logistics (Regrets, Agenda Requests, Comments) [from sharper]
16:54:55 <markel> zakim, close item 6
16:54:56 <Zakim> agendum 3, Next Topic, closed
16:54:58 <Zakim> I see 3 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
16:55:00 <Zakim> 5. Welcome & Logistics (Regrets, Agenda Requests, Comments) [from sharper]
16:55:05 <markel> zakim, close item 5
16:55:06 <Zakim> agendum 4, Any Other Business, closed
16:55:10 <Zakim> I see 3 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
16:55:13 <Zakim> 5. Welcome & Logistics (Regrets, Agenda Requests, Comments) [from sharper]
16:55:15 <Zakim> agendum 5, Welcome & Logistics (Regrets, Agenda Requests, Comments), closed
16:55:17 <Zakim> I see 2 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
16:55:19 <Zakim> 6. Discuss availability and meeting timing (please fill out the survey) [from sharper]
16:55:22 <Zakim> agendum 6, Discuss availability and meeting timing (please fill out the survey), closed
16:55:25 <Zakim> I see 1 item remaining on the agenda:
16:55:26 <Zakim> 9. Any Other Business [from sharper]
16:55:27 <Zakim> agendum 5, Welcome & Logistics (Regrets, Agenda Requests, Comments), closed
16:55:29 <Zakim> I see 1 item remaining on the agenda:
16:55:30 <Zakim> 9. Any Other Business [from sharper]
16:55:36 <markel> zakim, close item 9
16:55:36 <Zakim> agendum 9, Any Other Business, closed
16:55:38 <Zakim> I see nothing remaining on the agenda
16:55:55 <Zakim> -??P69
16:55:56 <Zakim> WAI_RDWG()11:00AM has ended
16:55:58 <Zakim> Attendees were christos, [IPcaller], Shadi
16:56:02 <markel> markel has left #rd
16:56:12 <shadi> trackbot, end meeting
16:56:12 <trackbot> Zakim, list attendees
16:56:12 <Zakim> sorry, trackbot, I don't know what conference this is
16:56:15 <trackbot> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
16:56:15 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/01/26-rd-minutes.html trackbot
16:56:16 <trackbot> RRSAgent, bye
16:56:16 <RRSAgent> I see no action items