16:00:15 RRSAgent has joined #html-a11y
16:00:15 logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/01/26-html-a11y-irc
16:00:17 RRSAgent, make logs world
16:00:19 Zakim, this will be 2119
16:00:20 Meeting: HTML Accessibility Task Force Teleconference
16:00:20 Date: 26 January 2012
16:00:23 Zakim has joined #html-a11y
16:01:04 paulc has joined #html-a11y
16:02:43 gfreed has joined #html-a11y
16:03:01 +??P53
16:03:25 +Judy
16:03:43 +Cooper
16:03:49 zakim, [Microsoft] has paulc
16:04:14 +[Microsoft]
16:04:25 zakim, ??P53 is Léonie_Watson
16:04:27 Zakim, [Microsoft] has paulc
16:04:44 +paulc; got it
16:04:50 Zakim, call Mike
16:05:39 +Léonie_Watson; got it
16:05:41 paulc was already listed in [Microsoft], paulc
16:06:04 agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2012Jan/0267.html
16:06:11 ok, MikeSmith; the call is being made
16:06:15 +Mike
16:07:42 http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/ChangeProposal/meta_name%3Dgenerator_does_not_make_missing_alt_conforming
16:07:59 LeonieW has joined #html-a11y
16:08:08 scribenick: LeonieW
16:08:26 Topic: Metagenerator
16:08:47 recent changes are shown at http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/index.php?title=ChangeProposal%2Fmeta_name%3Dgenerator_does_not_make_missing_alt_conforming&diff=11821&oldid=11673
16:09:03 MS: Steve made some changes yesterday.
16:09:20 MS: The change is to the introductory text.
16:11:04 MS: Difficult to understand the context of this change proposal. Essentially, if you have metagenerated elements in your content, none of the images in your document require alternative text.
16:11:43 MS: So instances where you may have intended to include a text description will not be picked up by validation checks.
16:12:00 CS: It also lets accessibility authoring tools off the hook.
16:13:27 MS: The rationale of the CP talks about the percentage of content on the web that is metagenerated.
16:14:55 MS: It's estimated that 1 in 4 pages would be affected by this.
16:15:20 rrsagent, make minutes
16:15:20 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/01/26-html-a11y-minutes.html LeonieW
16:16:03 MS: There is a difference between document conformance (that can be checked by a validator) and authoring conformance.
16:17:04 MS: The spec requires images to have alternative text. It also provides an exception for metagenerated content.
16:18:17 MS: This CP requests that the exception is removed, and.
16:21:09 MS: Negative effect is that authors may provide unhelpful text descriptions. Is this really a negative effect?
16:21:36 JB: Suggest we remove the negative effect and let Steve know, rather than include one for process' sake.
16:23:01 CS: Authors will sometimes provide unhelpful text descriptions. Not sure that's a negative effect of this CP?
16:23:46 rrsagent, make minutes
16:23:46 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/01/26-html-a11y-minutes.html LeonieW
16:24:14 JB: Paul, do we need to include something for form's sake?
16:24:27 PC: I don't believe so, but if the chairs disagree you'll hear from them.
16:25:28 MS: I propose a resolution...
16:26:24 PROPOSED RESOLUTION: The TF endorses the proposal at http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/ChangeProposal/meta_name%3Dgenerator_does_not_make_missing_alt_conforming pending removal of the current text in the Negative Effects section.
16:27:28 JB: Suggest we record it as a resolution with a note.
16:27:38 CS: Do we need to issue it for 48 hour consensus?
16:28:07 RESOLUTION: The TF endorses the proposal at http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/ChangeProposal/meta_name%3Dgenerator_does_not_make_missing_alt_conforming pending confirmation of removal by Steve of the current text in the Negative Effects section, with 48 hours for anyone on the TF mailing list to state objections.
16:28:20 rrsagent, make minutes
16:28:20 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/01/26-html-a11y-minutes.html LeonieW
16:28:52 Topic: Revert request on longdesc
16:29:17 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2012Jan/0136.html
16:29:36 MS: This relates to issue 30.
16:31:15 q+
16:31:17 MS: Jonas submitted an alternate CP to the one Laura authored. Laura feels that a change made to the spec by Hixie effectively bypassess the W3C process.
16:32:15 MS: Gez supports Laura's revert request. Leif has also responded, but notes that the issue may not be as problematic as Laura suggests but that it should be reviewed. He concurrs with Laura's request.
16:32:45 MS: Silvia suggested that the change has no direct relationship with the longdesc issue.
16:32:46 q?
16:32:52 ack Judy
16:33:33 JB: It does seem to be an unfortunate complication to a sensitive issue.
16:34:10 JB: I support Laura's revert request as well.
16:34:12 q?
16:34:20 rrsagent, make minutes
16:34:20 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/01/26-html-a11y-minutes.html LeonieW
16:35:08 PC: I've started a chairs discussion on this. Sam is away for the next few days. I will post to the public list as well.
16:35:40 MS: This is something for the chairs to respond to, but the TF may want to take a position on it as well.
16:36:06 the actual change is here, http://html5.org/tools/web-apps-tracker?from=6894&to=6895
16:36:35 rrsagent, make minutes
16:36:35 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/01/26-html-a11y-minutes.html LeonieW
16:36:55 MS: Take a look at the diff and if you feel inclined to make a comment, that would be good.
16:37:00 q?
16:37:21 Topic: Sub team reports (Text alternatives)
16:38:05 JB: We met on Tuesday and discussed the metagenerator CP, and agreed it should be brought to the TF.
16:38:21 JB: We also noted that minor changes to the title CP were due.
16:38:57 JB: We started to check all text related bugs that were escalated before the January deadline.
16:39:31 JB: We discussed the updates to longdesc and the timeline.
16:40:31 JB: Philippe Le Hégaret joined the call and was helpful on the longdesc discussion.
16:40:46 rrsagent, make minutes
16:40:46 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/01/26-html-a11y-minutes.html LeonieW
16:41:31 MS: Don't believe the media sub team has met recently, or has any current activity.
16:41:45 MS: Without Rich I'm not sure about progress on canvas.
16:42:04 CS: We've been working on our SxSW presentation on canvas.
16:42:09 link to the text subteam minutes this week: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2012Jan/0247.html
16:42:11 rrsagent, make minutes
16:42:11 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/01/26-html-a11y-minutes.html LeonieW
16:42:42 Topic: Sub team (API mapping)
16:42:53 CS: Jason Kiss has filled in the Mac API section.
16:43:11 CS: We've done work to fill in the UA sections.
16:43:28 CS: We have new people involved and stuff's getting done.
16:44:10 http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/html-api-map/raw-file/tip/Overview.html
16:44:24 http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/html-api-map/log
16:44:42 Topic: Sub team reports (Bug triage)
16:45:03 scribenick: MikeSmith
16:45:42 LeonieW: agreed that now we are past the January deadline, it's quieter and we are only going to meet once a fortnight, and probably only for 30 minutes
16:45:53 ... until we reach the next big deadline
16:45:54 richardschwerdtfe has joined #html-a11y
16:46:06 LeonieW: we did a review of bugs that need more information
16:46:32 +Rich
16:47:03 ... so we have a question about what the protocol is for bugs that were filed before the deadline and escalated and so are now tied to HTML WG issues
16:47:21 ... but these are still showing up on our radar
16:48:08 https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=10248
16:48:19 https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=8722
16:49:08 MichaelC: we don't know if information being provided on the bug would be considered for an issue that has been escalated
16:50:34 \http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/74
16:51:41 my personal suggestion on this is that information should still be added as comments to the bug, as long as the bug still remains at NEEDSINFO
16:52:17 Here is the issue-74 decision http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2010Dec/0136.html
16:53:37 LeonieW: looking through the NEEDSINFO bug, there are quite a few that are related to media that have open and waiting for info for a year or more?
16:53:57 paulc: are those related to the Web on TV IG bugs?
16:54:30 MikeSmith: I think those are more recent
16:54:40 paulc: can you give me an example of one of these bugs?
16:54:47 RRSAgent, make minutes
16:54:47 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/01/26-html-a11y-minutes.html MikeSmith
16:55:46 -[Microsoft]
16:56:41 -> http://www.w3.org/2012/01/24-a11y-bugs-minutes#item05 NeedsInfo bugs with specific questions to the TF
16:57:58 Cythia: send some nag mail
16:58:24 Judy: nag mail is helpful sometime to make sure they end up on the top of everyone's pile
16:58:47 s/Cythia/Cynthia/
16:59:10 LeonieW: quite a few bugs assigned to Gregory
17:00:06 trackbot has joined #html-a11y
17:00:23 ... and we tried to reassign those to other people but are struggling to find someone to pick those up
17:02:03 RRSAgent, make minutes
17:02:03 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/01/26-html-a11y-minutes.html MikeSmith
17:02:44 -Rich
17:02:46 -Cynthia_Shelly
17:02:48 -Cooper
17:02:49 -Mike
17:02:49 -Léonie_Watson
17:02:51 -Judy
17:02:55 WAI_PFWG(HTML TF)11:00AM has ended
17:02:57 Attendees were Cynthia_Shelly, Judy, Cooper, paulc, Léonie_Watson, Mike, Rich
17:03:08 rrsagent, make minutes
17:03:08 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/01/26-html-a11y-minutes.html LeonieW
17:04:17 zakim, please part
17:04:23 Zakim has left #html-a11y
17:04:29 rrsagent, please part
17:04:29 I see no action items