IRC log of au on 2012-01-23

Timestamps are in UTC.

19:44:12 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #au
19:44:12 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/01/23-au-irc
19:44:19 [Jan]
Zakim, this will be AUWG
19:44:19 [Zakim]
ok, Jan; I see WAI_AUWG()3:00PM scheduled to start in 16 minutes
19:44:25 [Jan]
Meeting: WAI AU
19:53:27 [AlastairC]
AlastairC has joined #au
19:54:25 [Jan]
Agenda: /me Hi AlastairC
19:57:12 [Jan]
Regrets: Cherie E.
19:58:35 [jeanne]
jeanne has joined #au
20:00:43 [Jan]
ALso the WAI-AU site is down
20:00:56 [Zakim]
WAI_AUWG()3:00PM has now started
20:01:04 [Zakim]
+??P6
20:01:07 [Zakim]
+??P0
20:01:20 [Zakim]
+[Microsoft]
20:02:02 [Zakim]
+Jeanne
20:02:02 [Jan]
zakim, [Microsoft] is really Alex
20:02:03 [Zakim]
+Alex; got it
20:02:30 [Jan]
zakim, who's making noise?
20:02:40 [Zakim]
Jan, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: ??P0 (90%), Alex (15%)
20:02:54 [Jan]
zakim, P0 is really Jan
20:02:54 [Zakim]
sorry, Jan, I do not recognize a party named 'P0'
20:02:59 [Jan]
zakim, ??P0 is really Jan
20:02:59 [Zakim]
+Jan; got it
20:03:09 [Jan]
zakim, ??P6 is really Alastair
20:03:09 [Zakim]
+Alastair; got it
20:03:39 [Zakim]
+??P15
20:03:53 [Jan]
zakim, ??P15 is really Andrew
20:03:53 [Zakim]
+Andrew; got it
20:04:52 [andrewronksley]
andrewronksley has joined #au
20:05:24 [Zakim]
+[IPcaller]
20:06:00 [Jan]
zakim, [IPcaller] is really Jutta
20:06:00 [Zakim]
+Jutta; got it
20:06:08 [Jan]
zakim, who's here?
20:06:08 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Alastair, Jan, Alex, Jeanne, Andrew, Jutta
20:06:10 [Zakim]
On IRC I see andrewronksley, jeanne, AlastairC, RRSAgent, Zakim, Jan, trackbot
20:06:22 [jeanne]
agenda+ Consider remaining comment responses for approval
20:06:39 [jeanne]
agenda+ draft text re: the "accessible content" issue
20:07:06 [Zakim]
+Sueann
20:07:56 [Zakim]
+Greg
20:09:05 [jeanne]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-au/2012JanMar/0014.html
20:09:44 [Jutta]
Jutta has joined #au
20:09:44 [Sueann]
Sueann has joined #au
20:10:14 [jeanne]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-au/2012JanMar/0014.html
20:11:20 [Zakim]
+Tim_Boland
20:12:19 [Alessandro_Miele]
Alessandro_Miele has joined #au
20:12:40 [jeanne]
zakim, take up item 1
20:12:41 [Zakim]
agendum 1. "Consider remaining comment responses for approval" taken up [from jeanne]
20:13:37 [Zakim]
+[IPcaller]
20:14:20 [Jan]
zakim, [IPcaller] is really Alessandro
20:14:20 [Zakim]
+Alessandro; got it
20:14:49 [Jan]
Response to MS2: AUWG: The conformance model has been completely overhauled to address this issue. In particular, a new Partial Conformance category has been added " when an authoring tool would require additional tools or components in order to conform as a complete authoring system. This option may be used for components with very limited functionality (e.g. a plug-in) up to nearly...
20:14:51 [Jan]
...complete systems (e.g. a markup editor that only lacks accessibility checking functionality)." [DRAFT-TEXT]@@
20:15:04 [AlastairC]
Comment repsonses: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-au/2012JanMar/att-0012/ATAG2-21July2011PublicWD-CommentResponses-rev20120117.html
20:15:35 [Greg]
Greg has joined #au
20:15:47 [Jan]
Topic: Approving comment responses (MS2)
20:16:11 [Jan]
Resolution: All approve draft response to MS2
20:16:23 [Jan]
Topic: Approving comment responses (MS12)
20:16:27 [Jan]
Resolution: All approve draft response to MS12
20:16:49 [Jan]
Topic: Approving comment responses (MS1)
20:16:58 [Jan]
AUWG: The defintion of automatically generated content has been reworked:
20:17:00 [Jan]
"content generation (content authoring, content editing) The act of specifying the actual web content that will be rendered, played or executed by the end user's user agent. While the precise details of how content is created in any given system may vary widely, responsibility for the generation of content can be any combination of the following:
20:17:01 [Jan]
- author generated content: Web content for which authors are fully responsible. The author may only be responsible down to a particular level (e.g., when asked to type a text label, the author is responsible for the text, but not for how the label is marked up; when typing markup in a source editing-view, the author is not responsible for the fact that UNICODE is used to encode the text ).
20:17:03 [Jan]
- automatically generated content: Web content for which developer-programmed functionality is fully responsible (e.g., what markup to output when an author requests to start a new document, automatically correcting markup errors).
20:17:05 [Jan]
- third-party content generation: Web content foe which a third-party author is responsible (e.g., community shared templates)."
20:17:33 [Jan]
GP: foe->for
20:17:44 [Jan]
JR: Will check in MASTER
20:17:58 [Jan]
Resolution: All approve draft response to MS1
20:18:07 [Jan]
Topic: Approving comment responses (MS7)
20:18:44 [Jan]
AUWG:An example of AAA alternative content in WCAG 2.0 is "1.2.6 Sign Language (Prerecorded)". There is a table of informative examples in the new draft.
20:21:56 [Jan]
content transformations
20:21:57 [Jan]
Processes that take content in one web content technology or non-web content technology (e.g., a word processing format) as input and produce content that has been optimized, restructured or recoded: Optimizing Content Transformations: Transformations in which the content technology is not changed and the structural features of the content technology that are employed also stay the same....
20:21:59 [Jan]
...Changes would not be expected to result in information loss (e.g., removing whitespace, replacing in-line styles with an external stylesheet).
20:22:00 [Jan]
Restructuring Content Transformations: Transformations in which the content technology stays the same, but the structural features of the technology used to markup the content are changed (e.g., linearizing tables, splitting a document into pages.
20:22:02 [Jan]
Recoding Content Transformations: Transformations in which the content technology used to encode the content is changed (e.g., HTML to XHTML, a word processing format to HTML).
20:24:19 [Jan]
AUWG:The definitions of the different types of transformations now appear in the glossary under "Content Transformation".We have re-examined the concept of Accessibility Information and have included atable of informative examples in the new draft Implementing Document. This table also included the Level of the various types of accessibility information, which do range from A to AAA (e.g....
20:24:20 [Jan]
...sign language for 1.2.6 Sign Language (Prerecorded) is AAA
20:25:01 [Jan]
AUWG:The definitions of the different types of transformations now appear in the glossary under "Content Transformation".We have re-examined the concept of Accessibility Information and have included a table of informative examples in the new draft Implementing Document. This table also includes the Level of the various types of accessibility information, which do range from A to AAA (e.g....
20:25:03 [Jan]
...sign language for 1.2.6 Sign Language (Prerecorded) is AAA
20:26:15 [Jan]
B.1.2.1 Restructuring and Recoding Transformations (WCAG):
20:26:16 [Jan]
If the authoring tool provides restructuring transformations or re-coding transformations, then at least one of the following is true: (Level A to meet WCAG 2.0 Level A success criteria; Level AA to meet WCAG 2.0 Level A and AA success criteria; Level AAA to meet all WCAG 2.0 success criteria)
20:26:18 [Jan]
(a) Preserve: Accessibility information (WCAG) is preserved in the output; or
20:26:19 [Jan]
(b) Warning: Authors have the default option to be warned that accessibility information may be lost (e.g., when saving a vector graphic into a raster image format); or
20:26:21 [Jan]
(c) Automatic Checking: After the transformation, accessibility checking is automatically performed; or
20:26:22 [Jan]
(d) Checking Suggested: After the transformation, the authoring tool prompts authors to perform accessibility checking.
20:26:24 [Jan]
Note: This success criteria only applies to transformations in which the output technology is an "included" technology for conformance.
20:27:39 [jeanne]
http://www.w3.org/WAI/AU/2012/ED-ATAG20-20120113/#sc_b121
20:30:04 [Jan]
Resolution: All approve draft response to MS7 "AUWG:The definitions of the different types of transformations now appear in the glossary under "Content Transformation".We have re-examined the concept of Accessibility Information and have included a table of informative examples in the new draft Implementing Document. This table also includes the Level of the various types of accessibility...
20:30:05 [Jan]
...information, which do range from A to AAA (e.g. sign language for 1.2.6 Sign Language (Prerecorded) is AAA"
20:30:22 [Jan]
Topic: Approving comment responses (MS9a)
20:31:04 [Jan]
MS9a: B.1.2 How does this apply to something like a copy and paste operation from a rich text editor to a plain text editor where structural info will be lost? Who is supposed to tell the author that the structure is gone? Please explain how the SC applies to copy-and-paste or cut-and-paste operations?
20:31:10 [Jan]
AUWG: In these cases, a warning each time would not be a very friendly interface. Instead, a developer might choose to offer option (a), (c) or (d).
20:33:55 [AlastairC]
My reading of the "If the authoring tool provides restructuring transformations or re-coding transformations" does not apply to copy-paste (an OS feature)
20:41:17 [AlastairC]
It seems that a workflow level (i.e. check at the end of an authoring session) would be a more suitable place for checking after copy-paste.
20:43:49 [Jan]
Alex: This SC should be ok in Save As situations...leaving aside copy paste
20:44:55 [Jan]
Action JR: Create proposal for B.1.2.1 Restructuring and Recoding Transformations around handling copy-paste
20:44:56 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-372 - Create proposal for B.1.2.1 Restructuring and Recoding Transformations around handling copy-paste [on Jan Richards - due 2012-01-30].
20:45:12 [Jan]
Topic: Approving comment responses (MS8)
20:45:20 [Jan]
The term is merely renamed "web content properties related to accessibility information" which is still undefined or at least ill defined.
20:45:28 [Jan]
AUWG:This will be better defined by the informative table of examples that is being added for Accessibility Information. [DRAFT-TEXT]@@
20:46:14 [Zakim]
-Tim_Boland
20:47:39 [Zakim]
-Sueann
20:48:59 [Jan]
Resolution: All approve draft response to MS8
20:49:57 [jeanne]
zakim, take up next agenda
20:49:57 [Zakim]
agendum 2. "draft text re: the "accessible content" issue" taken up [from jeanne]
20:50:00 [jeanne]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-au/2012JanMar/0014.html
20:53:12 [Zakim]
-Jeanne
20:53:59 [Zakim]
+Jeanne
20:55:13 [AlastairC]
I'm strongly in favour of keeping the document as simple and readable as possible, so I agree with Jan's proposal, which is *much* better than continually referencing WCAG.
21:00:30 [Jan]
JT: Given that we are out of time, can people mull this over?
21:01:39 [Zakim]
-Jutta
21:01:43 [Zakim]
-Alastair
21:01:45 [Zakim]
-Andrew
21:01:47 [Zakim]
-Jan
21:01:48 [AlastairC]
AlastairC has left #au
21:01:49 [Zakim]
-Alessandro
21:01:53 [Zakim]
-Alex
21:02:01 [Zakim]
-Greg
21:02:04 [Zakim]
-Jeanne
21:02:05 [Zakim]
WAI_AUWG()3:00PM has ended
21:02:07 [Jan]
RRSAgent, make minutes
21:02:07 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/01/23-au-minutes.html Jan
21:02:09 [Zakim]
Attendees were Jeanne, Alex, Jan, Alastair, Andrew, Jutta, Sueann, Greg, Tim_Boland, Alessandro
21:02:14 [Jan]
RRSAgent, set logs public
21:02:19 [Jan]
Zakim, bye
21:02:23 [Zakim]
Zakim has left #au
21:02:23 [Jan]
RRSAgent, bye
21:02:23 [RRSAgent]
I see 1 open action item saved in http://www.w3.org/2012/01/23-au-actions.rdf :
21:02:23 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: JR to Create proposal for B.1.2.1 Restructuring and Recoding Transformations around handling copy-paste [1]
21:02:23 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/01/23-au-irc#T20-44-55