17:34:42 RRSAgent has joined #ua 17:34:42 logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/01/19-ua-irc 17:34:44 RRSAgent, make logs public 17:34:44 Zakim has joined #ua 17:34:46 Zakim, this will be WAI_UAWG 17:34:46 ok, trackbot; I see WAI_UAWG()1:00PM scheduled to start in 26 minutes 17:34:47 Meeting: User Agent Accessibility Guidelines Working Group Teleconference 17:34:47 Date: 19 January 2012 17:35:12 rrsagent, set logs public 17:35:33 chair: KellyFord and JimAllan 17:47:16 jeanne has joined #ua 17:50:23 WAI_UAWG()1:00PM has now started 17:50:30 +kford 17:51:07 +Jeanne 17:51:29 +Jim_Allan 17:52:36 kford has joined #ua 17:52:46 trackbot, start meeting 17:52:49 RRSAgent, make logs public 17:52:51 Zakim, this will be WAI_UAWG 17:52:51 ok, trackbot, I see WAI_UAWG()1:00PM already started 17:52:52 Meeting: User Agent Accessibility Guidelines Working Group Teleconference 17:52:52 Date: 19 January 2012 17:54:49 Wayne has joined #ua 17:55:11 agenda+ call on Friday 17:55:12 Agenda+ Discuss Survey Results - https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20120113/ 17:55:14 Agenda+ SC to Check from F2F - http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2012JanMar/0018.html 17:55:15 agenda+ review any new proposals 17:57:18 +Wayne 18:01:27 rrsagent, make minutes 18:01:27 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/01/19-ua-minutes.html kford 18:01:41 zakim, agenda? 18:01:41 I see 4 items remaining on the agenda: 18:01:43 1. call on Friday [from kford] 18:01:44 2. Discuss Survey Results - https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20120113/ [from kford] 18:01:45 3. SC to Check from F2F - http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2012JanMar/0018.html [from kford] 18:01:47 4. review any new proposals [from kford] 18:02:19 Greg has joined #ua 18:02:31 +Mark 18:02:43 zakim, who is here? 18:02:43 On the phone I see kford, Jeanne, Jim_Allan, Wayne, Mark 18:02:44 On IRC I see Greg, Wayne, kford, jeanne, Zakim, RRSAgent, trackbot 18:02:47 zakim, mute Jim 18:02:47 Jim_Allan should now be muted 18:03:39 zakim, unmute jim 18:03:39 Jim_Allan should no longer be muted 18:03:43 mhakkinen has joined #ua 18:04:08 +Greg_Lowney 18:04:13 -Jim_Allan 18:04:28 AllanJ has joined #ua 18:05:36 +Jim_Allan 18:05:54 zakim, agenda? 18:05:54 I see 4 items remaining on the agenda: 18:05:55 1. call on Friday [from kford] 18:05:57 2. Discuss Survey Results - https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20120113/ [from kford] 18:05:59 3. SC to Check from F2F - http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2012JanMar/0018.html [from kford] 18:06:02 4. review any new proposals [from kford] 18:06:35 +Kim_Patch 18:06:39 KimPatch has joined #ua 18:06:55 zakim, mute jim 18:06:55 Jim_Allan should now be muted 18:07:24 -Greg_Lowney 18:08:19 +Greg_Lowney 18:08:32 zakim, unmute jim 18:08:32 Jim_Allan should no longer be muted 18:08:49 zakim, who is here? 18:08:49 On the phone I see kford, Jeanne, Wayne, Mark, Jim_Allan, Kim_Patch, Greg_Lowney 18:08:52 On IRC I see KimPatch, AllanJ, mhakkinen, Greg, Wayne, kford, jeanne, Zakim, RRSAgent, trackbot 18:10:02 Scribe: Kim 18:11:16 length of meeting discussion 18:11:41 zakim, take up friday 1 18:11:41 I don't understand 'take up friday 1', kford 18:11:48 zakim, take up item 1 18:11:49 agendum 1. "call on Friday" taken up [from kford] 18:12:54 Greg has joined #ua 18:13:08 slated to meet tomorrow East Coast 1-4 18:13:14 Just a reminder that we meet Friday 1P to 4P. 18:13:23 zakim, close item 1 18:13:23 agendum 1, call on Friday, closed 18:13:24 I see 3 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is 18:13:25 2. Discuss Survey Results - https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20120113/ [from kford] 18:13:35 zakim, take up item 2 18:13:35 agendum 2. "Discuss Survey Results - https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20120113/" taken up [from kford] 18:15:03 Kelly: 2.3 18:15:41 -Jim_Allan 18:16:17 +Jim_Allan 18:16:31 Kelly: when we don't have universal agreement we can either send this off for someone, which will take a whole cycle, or we can spend group time rewriting 18:17:38 Jim: I can live with Jean's 18:17:39 Jean: use Greg's as final sentence 18:18:12 This success criterion reduces the cognitive load for keyboard interface users *, some of whom may also have cognitive disabilities*. Navigation by keyboard interface may vary by platform, user agent and assistive technology, *requiring memorization of a very large number of keyboard shortcut commands*. Taken as a whole, this creates hardship for keyboard interface users. The *some users* of the 18:18:12 keyboard interface needs perceivable labels to learn and be able to operate navigation effectively, *while those using assistive technologies require communication of the keystrokes by programmatic means.* Tthese do not have to always be presented, but can instead be a user option or on request (e.g. tapping Alt in Windows). 18:18:35 Greg: I don't think the word programmatically belongs in the SC, but if we keep it it does make sense to mention it in the intent 18:18:46 This success criterion reduces the cognitive load for keyboard interface users *, some of whom may also have cognitive disabilities*. Navigation by keyboard interface may vary by platform, user agent and assistive technology, *requiring memorization of a very large number of keyboard shortcut commands*. Taken as a whole, this creates hardship for keyboard interface users. The *some users* of the 18:18:46 keyboard interface needs perceivable labels to learn and be able to operate navigation effectively, *while some using assistive technologies require communication of the keystrokes by programmatic means.* These do not have to always be presented, but can instead be a user option or on request (e.g. tapping Alt in Windows). 18:19:58 This success criterion reduces the cognitive load for keyboard interface users *, some of whom may also have cognitive disabilities*. Navigation by keyboard interface may vary by application, platform, user agent and assistive technology, *requiring memorization of a very large number of keyboard shortcut commands*. Taken as a whole, this creates hardship for keyboard interface users. The *some 18:19:59 users* of the keyboard interface needs perceivable labels to learn and be able to operate navigation effectively, *while some using assistive technologies require communication of the keystrokes by programmatic means.* These do not have to always be presented, but can instead be a user option or on request (e.g. tapping Alt in Windows). 18:20:27 Wayne: I don't understand the section while some... programmatic means. 18:21:10 "In some cases assistive technology needs to be able to discover the keyboard shortcuts, either to convey them to the user or to simulate them itself." 18:21:11 This success criterion reduces the cognitive load for keyboard interface users *, some of whom may also have cognitive disabilities*. Navigation by keyboard interface may vary by application, platform, user agent and assistive technology, *requiring memorization of a very large number of keyboard shortcut commands*. Taken as a whole, this creates hardship for keyboard interface users. The *some 18:21:11 users* of the keyboard interface needs perceivable labels to learn and be able to operate navigation effectively, *while some using assistive technologies are able to discover keystrokes by programmatic means. These do not have to always be presented, but can instead be a user option or on request (e.g. tapping Alt in Windows). 18:21:49 "In some cases assistive technologyneeds to be able to discover the keyboard shortcuts *programmatically*, either to convey them to the user or to simulate them itself." 18:22:19 Wayne: as intent, OK 18:22:34 Wayne: why do we need the programmatically, 18:22:57 AndroUser has joined #ua 18:23:37 Greg: everything is going to have to be exposed programmatically -- a label would be exposed as text programmatically, but to simulate a keystroke it has two understand the relationship -- that that is a direct key for a certain control. That's covered by another sc., not sure if it has to be in this sc. 18:24:06 Note that the portion of the SC about programmatic access is redundant to 4.1.6 Expose Accessible Properties, (j) direct keyboard commands. 18:24:25 Zakim, AndroUser is jallan 18:24:25 sorry, AndroUser, I do not recognize a party named 'AndroUser' 18:24:29 Greg:if we leave the thing about programmatic access here, we should put a cross-reference to that 18:24:30 If we keep the programmatic access here, we should cross reference to 4.1.6.j. 18:25:29 Wayne: I think this is good enough 18:25:35 Kelly: any objections 18:25:40 no objections 18:25:51 Either way, the cross reference should be include whether we keep or remove the programmatic aspect of the SC. 18:26:46 Topic:2.11.7 18:27:17 Topic:2.11.3 18:27:22 all agreed 18:27:28 Topic:2.11.4 18:28:11 Topic:2.11.2 18:28:14 unanimous 18:28:19 Resolved: Accept 2.7.2, 2.7.3, and 2.7.4 as proposed in the survey. 18:28:48 Topic:2.1.0 18:28:50 summary 18:29:40 Mark: needs to be expanded 18:30:02 Ok with Marks 18:30:26 Correction: Topic 2.10 18:30:35 "In its default configuration the user agent helps prevent seizures by not flashing..." 18:30:50 Wayne: to avoid seizures, the user may configure the way so that the flashing is below 2% or does not flash at all 18:31:01 Jean: the default rather than the user can configure 18:31:18 Greg: in the default configuration... 18:32:02 Mark: what's flashing, the entire screen for some element within the UI 18:32:40 The user can avoid potential seizures with a default browser configuration that prevents the browser user interface and rendered content from flashing more than three times a second above a luminescence or color threshold (2.10.1), or does not flash at all (2.10.2). 18:33:22 Greg: if it's not the default it would be more the user can avoid -- emphasize the default configuration over the user can 18:33:53 "To help users avoid seizures, the default browser configuration prevents..." 18:34:12 In its default configuration the user agent helps prevent seizures with a default browser configuration that prevents the browser user interface and rendered content from flashing more than three times a second above a luminescence or color threshold (2.10.1), or does not flash at all (2.10.2). 18:34:25 "To help users avoid seizures, the default browser configuration prevents the browser user interface and rendered content from flashing more than three times a second above a luminescence or color threshold (2.10.1), or does not flash at all (2.10.2)." 18:34:48 "To help users avoid seizures, the default configuration prevents the browser user interface and rendered content from flashing more than three times a second above a luminescence or color threshold (2.10.1), or does not flash at all (2.10.2)." 18:35:18 Good for me 18:35:26 +1 18:35:47 Topic: summary 2.11 background images 18:36:19 Greg:I can live with it 18:36:42 Kelly: trivial to change -- I like Greg's change 18:37:06 The user can control background images (2.11.1); present placeholders for time-based media (2.11.2) and executable regions (2.11.3), or block all executable content (2.11.4); adjust playback (2.11.5), stop/pause/resume (2.11.6), navigate, (2.11.7) and specify tracks for prerecorded time-based media (2.11.9); scale and position alternative media tracks (2.11.11); and adjust contrast and... 18:37:22 ...brightness of visual time-based media (2.11.12). 18:38:32 Topic: 2.11.7 timebased media examples 18:38:34 all agree 18:38:57 Topic: 2.11.8 semantic navigation examples 18:38:57 RESOLVED: Proposals for Summaries of 2.10 & 2.11 accepted as amended 18:39:42 Greg: screen time makes it look like how much time you can look at the screen, minor changes 18:39:43 "Wes has repetitive stress injury that limits the length of his computer sessions. He stops playback of a training video when he is tired and after resting, he can restart it and navigate to the scene where he left off." 18:40:52 agreed to change 18:41:16 Topic: 2.11.9 track enable/disable 18:42:01 Kelly: Mark suggests using the same names 18:42:21 Greg: using the same name and rewrite for style 18:43:09 Changing the SC to include ""During time-based media playback, the user can determine which tracks are available and select or deselect tracks, overriding global default settings for captions, audio descriptions, etc." 18:44:14 +1 18:44:45 Ok 18:44:49 AndroUser has joined #ua 18:45:39 Style only, but the second example could be shortened to start "Gorges is deaf, and subscribes to a web service that streams major popular movies." Replaces the first two sentences. 18:45:51 Topic: 2.11.11 scale and position visual alternative media tracks 18:46:30 all agreed 18:47:12 Topic: 2.11.12 video contrast and brightness 18:47:29 Ok as is 18:48:33 agreed 18:48:52 Topic: 3.3.3 changes between versions 18:49:32 When she installs it... 18:51:16 Martha goes to an app store on her computer and notices that an update for the web browser she uses is available. When she installs it she finds a welcome page talking about the new features in this release, and one of the links on that page says "What's new For Accessibility". following this link Martha reads about the accessibility improvements added and discovers this update had added a... 18:51:29 ...feature allowing her to have tooltips displayed for elements when she is using caret browsing. The text also informs Martha that this feature is off by default and that she should go to accessibility settings to turn it on. 18:51:46 > Martha goes to an app store on her computer and notices that an update for the web browser she uses is available. When she installs it she finds a welcome page talking about the new features in this release, and one of the links on that page says "What's new For Accessibility". Following this link Martha reads about the accessibility improvements added and discovers this update had added a... 18:51:48 ...feature allowing her to have tooltips displayed for elements when she is using caret browsing. The text also informs Martha that this feature is off by default and that she should go to accessibility settings to turn it on. 18:52:21 Topic: 3.3.4 centralized view 18:55:21 Bob downloads a new web browser on his mobile phone. He's never used this software before and also uses a screen reader that is part of his phone's operating system. he browser's online help includes a section on accessiblity that point him to pages discussing non-visual access, such as interaction with screen readers, as well as helpful hints such as an explanation of the screen layout and... 18:55:37 ...a list of supported touch gestures. 18:56:07 Bob downloads a new web browser on his mobile phone. He's never used this software before and also uses a screen reader that is part of his phone's operating system. *The* browser's online help includes a section on accessiblity that point him to pages discussing non-visual access, such as interaction with screen readers, as well as helpful hints such as an explanation of the screen layout... 18:56:13 ...and a list of supported touch gestures. 18:56:21 Kelly: that's fine 18:56:25 +1 18:56:48 Topic: 5.1.1 follow sensibility guidelines 18:57:00 all agreed 18:57:24 Topic: 5.3.2 implement accessibility features intent 18:58:01 Most operating systems have conventions and expectations that aid accessibility, such as keyboard behavior, support of an accessibility API, user interface design, and other standards related to accessibility. The intent of this success criteria is to ensure that user agents comply with the basic accessibility requirements of the platform in use. 18:58:42 Or sensible guidelines 19:01:16 Greg: possible overlap. 531 is about content, 532 contains the word content as well, so 531 used a subset that the moment. If we want to keep the content and the platform separate we delete the words content and from 532 and keep 531. 19:02:34 If we delete "content and" from 5.3.2 then we would delete the two intent paragraphs from 5.3.1. 19:03:38 And we'll delete references to HTML and ARIA from 5.3.2. 19:03:49 5.3.2 Implement Accessibility Features of platform: 19:03:49 Implement and cite in the conformance claim the accessibility features of platform technology specifications. Accessibility features are those that are either (Level A) : 19:04:09 The user should be able to easily discover detailed information about the user agent's adherence to accessibility standards, platform standards such as MSAA or JAA, and third-party standards such as ISO 9241-171, and should be able to do so without installing and testing the accessibility features. 19:04:31 AllanJ has joined #ua 19:05:29 Topic: 5.3.1 implement accessibility features of contents specs 19:06:21 (We also did the edit to the first paragraph of 5.3.2's Intent.) 19:07:54 Most content specs include features important to users with disabilities, and users may find it difficult or impossible to use a product that fails to support those features. Users should be able to easily discover detailed information about the user agent’s adherence to accessibility standards, including those related to content such as HTML and WAI-ARIA, and should be able to do so without... 19:07:56 ...installing and testing the accessibility features. This will allow them to make informed decisions about whether or not to they will be able to use, and therefore should install, a new product or version of that product. 19:08:13 Jordy uses a web site which uses WAI-ARIA to identify the functions of custom controls. If he used a web browser that didn't support this aspect of WAI-ARIA and expose that information to assistive technology, the web site would be unusable with his web browser. Therefore Jordy needs to choose a web browser that he knows fully supports WAI-ARIA, and he determines this by reading product... 19:08:14 ...documentation and UAAG conformance claims posted on the Web 19:09:09 Im back 19:09:28 Jeanne: most content specs -- you mean specifications? 19:10:16 zakim, close item 2 19:10:16 I see a speaker queue remaining and respectfully decline to close this agendum, kford 19:10:32 zakim q? 19:10:35 q? 19:10:40 ack Greg 19:10:41 ack greg 19:10:48 zakim, close item 2 19:10:48 agendum 2, Discuss Survey Results - https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20120113/, closed 19:10:50 I see 2 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is 19:10:52 3. SC to Check from F2F - http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2012JanMar/0018.html [from kford] 19:11:11 zakim, take up item 3 19:11:11 agendum 3. "SC to Check from F2F - http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2012JanMar/0018.html" taken up [from kford] 19:11:54 zakim, who is here? 19:11:54 On the phone I see kford, Jeanne, Wayne, Mark, Kim_Patch, Greg_Lowney, Jim_Allan 19:11:56 On IRC I see AndroUser, Greg, KimPatch, mhakkinen, Wayne, kford, jeanne, Zakim, RRSAgent, trackbot 19:12:07 zakim, unmute jim 19:12:08 Jim_Allan was not muted, kford 19:12:08 Kelly: items from face-to-face that we had voted no on 19:13:34 Kelly: list from Jim -- we had voted no on at some point, that still need some attention -- do we still think they are wrong or what do we want to do with them 19:14:26 Topic 1.11 19:14:38 Rendering alternative content defaults 19:14:48 Kelly: we said the handle was wrong 19:15:21 Configurable alternative content defaults 19:15:43 +1 19:17:41 1.1.2 Browse and Render 19:18:20 Kelly: we wanted to address the ability to have the alternative content display along with the default is the comment 19:18:38 Jeanne: that's getting complex 19:20:31 Kelly: if we tried to address this comment it would have to be a new success criteria 19:21:39 Jeanne: add to the intent -- this is not preclude having it display in multiple... 19:21:46 How about add Note: User agents are encouraged to also provide the ability to display alternate content with, rather than replacing, the primary content. 19:21:47 AllanJ has joined #ua 19:22:02 +1 19:22:06 (e.g. as a pop-up or tooltip) 19:22:19 +1 19:22:23 Note: User agents are encouraged to also provide the ability to display alternate content with, rather than replacing, the primary content (e.g. as a pop-up, tooltip, or annotation). 19:22:28 +1 19:25:39 Greg: Brother places where it would be just as important to display both alternative and primary as important as just one of the two. If we think that is as important are two options are either to put in a second SC about applying them with or to change the wording of this SC to say the user has a choice 19:25:55 Jim: nobody can do this yet, nobody can render them as both so we should leave it as an either or 19:26:03 Greg: you can do it using a style sheet 19:26:16 Kelly: just a note 19:26:31 Greg: if it is as important it should be in the SC 19:26:47 Wayne: what is the purpose 19:27:04 Jeanne: what is the advantage of displaying both 19:27:20 Greg: having the image and description of the image because if you have some vision -- today you have to hide the image to see the description 19:27:34 Kelly: example of why you want both -- what happens if there's an alternate title on object 19:27:42 Kelly: there could be times when you want to render both 19:29:05 Kelly: W3C/wai homepage, the alt text 19:29:23 Jim: you have to go through machinations -- it would be good if were just upon the screen so you could see all the titles 19:29:34 Kelly: I would be good with putting a note for expediency 19:30:08 Jeanne: right now it's in the main document as a note after 1.1.2 19:30:17 ok with note 19:30:32 agreed to note 19:30:41 Greg has joined #ua 19:31:32 -Wayne 19:31:38 -Mark 19:31:51 have to go. see you tomorrow. 19:36:24 Greg has joined #ua 19:36:57 rrsagent, make minutes 19:36:57 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/01/19-ua-minutes.html jeanne 19:40:29 zakim, who is here? 19:40:30 On the phone I see kford, Jeanne, Kim_Patch, Greg_Lowney, Jim_Allan 19:40:30 On IRC I see Greg, AllanJ, KimPatch, mhakkinen, kford, jeanne, Zakim, RRSAgent, trackbot 19:42:05 discussion on how to proceed given that are fewer of us 19:42:27 Topic: 1.2.1 repair missing alternatives 19:43:04 Kelly: comment this sounds like what people curse about Microsoft word. It's an option 19:43:31 Jim, Kelly seems okay to me 19:44:06 W3C doesn't have a quorum policy. We represent the views of the group. I think we should not address issues that we know are contentious to a particular member, but otherwise, we can go ahead. 19:44:31 Greg has joined #ua 19:44:32 Greg: we are not saying which repair text -- what is expected -- if there are no captions for video with this require use voice-recognition to create captions -- why would it not? 19:45:38 I'm concerned that the text of SC 1.2.1 requires user agents to create repair text for *all* missing alternative content. Wouldn't that include using speech recognition to generate captions for audio? It's Level A. 19:45:42 Jim: what is repair text? 19:45:45 SC: - 1.2.1 Repair Missing Alternatives: 19:45:45 The user can specify whether or not the user agent should generate and render repair text (e.g. file name) when it recognizes that the author has not provided alternative content. (Level A) 19:46:00 Example - Bintu is deaf and relies on captions to replace audio. A video does not have captions. Bintu selects a caption button, and is informed that no captions exist. The player then analyzes the video soundtrack and provides speech to text translation served as captions. Note: this is an advanced example, not a requirement. 19:46:19 repair content, repair text 19:46:21 Content generated by the user agent to correct an error condition. "Repair text" refers to the text portion of repair content. Error conditions that may lead to the generation of repair content include: 19:46:23 Erroneous or incomplete content (e.g. ill-formed markup, invalid markup, or missing alternative content that is required by format specification); 19:46:25 Missing resources for handling or rendering content (e.g. the user agent lacks a font family to display some characters, or the user agent does not implement a particular scripting language). 19:46:26 Jeanne: the added that note as an advanced example not a requirement specifically for that 19:46:26 UAAG 2.0 does not require user agents to include repair content in the document object. Repair content inserted in the document object should conform to the Web Content Accessibility Guidelines 1.0 [WCAG10]. For more information about repair techniques for Web content and software, refer to "Techniques for Authoring Tool Accessibility Guidelines 1.0" [ATAG10-TECHS]. 19:46:51 Greg: fine as an example but the SC doesn't exclude things like that 19:47:37 Greg :so it says that the don't have to be document object, but it still seems to say that it has to generate captions for audio unless we do something to scope that otherwise or clarify in the definition of repair text 19:48:06 Jim: definition of repair text -- 19:48:35 Greg: we should probably clarify that in the intent document to point out that because the definition for repair text is only for things required by the specification it would not require for example generating transcripts of audio using speech recognition 19:49:20 Jeanne: the definition of repair text is only for things required... I will add that to the intent 19:49:52 Greg: do we also want to make a note about feasibility -- like are there cases whereit's simply not feasible for the user agent to generate a meaningful repair text 19:50:25 Jim: because this repair text was originally set up for what screen readers do if there's no, tries to do a title of there's no title it snags the filename as a last resort so the user has something. 19:51:00 Greg: do we have a list of alternative content -- which ones are required by the specification and therefore which would be required 19:51:02 Jeanne: atag 19:51:55 http://www.w3.org/WAI/AU/2012/ED-IMPLEMENTING-ATAG20-20120113/#prompting-types 19:53:01 Greg: do they know which one of those are required in terms of repair text? 19:53:42 Jeanne: no, this is what requires -- not used as repair text, this is what authoring tools are responsible for 19:54:25 Greg has joined #ua 19:54:49 http://www.w3.org/WAI/AU/2012/ED-IMPLEMENTING-ATAG20-20120113/#prompting-types 19:56:31 Greg: I like to see these things be in the document so we don't lose track of them 19:57:02 Note: there are some instances when user agents will not be able to generate repair text. Such as when a video does not have captions. we do not expect the UA to use voice recognition to generate captions. 19:58:06 Jeanne:we can put it at the end of the SC 19:59:10 Greg as serious issues ith this. what is requiared alternative text and what is to be used to replace it. 19:59:12 Jeanne: one of ways to resolve it is to eliminate the entire success criteria.this is a very HTML oriented success criteria 19:59:37 Jeanne: do we really needed, given the ambiguity and how could be misapplied to new technology 19:59:45 Greg: I'm unsure whether it's needed 20:00:23 Greg: you could in your list of questions put that -- that we are considering deleting it and see if people protest 20:00:25 Jeanne: or put it on the agenda for tomorrow 20:00:35 I could live with deleting it 20:01:30 Kelly: I don't think anybody does this today 20:01:56 Jim: I would be okay with deleting it 20:02:24 Jim: I think it's just one of those leftover screen reader things 20:02:36 Kelly: will bring up tomorrow 20:02:39 Greg has joined #ua 20:03:24 Topic: 1.3.1 highlighted items 20:06:11 Greg: to do the recommendation you have to require something -- you could say at least these -- in the intent, but it's pretty implied anyway it's not an exclusive list, it is a minimum list 20:06:18 Jim: I think this is okay 20:07:13 Greg: for now, will note that we will keep it, ignore the comment 20:07:34 Maybe clearer to change "presence of alternative content" to "elements with alternative content". 20:07:38 Greg: change to elements with alternative content 20:08:38 Topic 1.3.3: highlighted input controls 20:10:25 http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/2012/ED-UAAG20-20120119/MasterUAAG20120119.html#sc-131 20:11:01 Jim: auditory you get a bing when you move over something? 20:11:23 Would these be easier to read if we moved the parenthetical examples to the end of each, rather their middles? 20:12:17 E.g. change "enabled controls that take input (e.g. push buttons, radio buttons, check boxes, and text input fields, but not groupings or static text and images) regardless of whether they are read-write or read-only" to "enabled controls that take input, regardless of whether they are read-write or read-only (e.g. push buttons, radio buttons, check boxes, and text input fields, but not... 20:12:19 ...groupings or static text and images)"? 20:12:51 OK as is 20:13:14 Topic: 1.8.4 20:13:16 Kelly: as an action with it so we should skip it 20:13:42 Kelly look up action items from Jim's list. 20:14:51 Topic: 2.1.1 keyboard operation 20:17:09 http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/tracker/ 20:17:28 Kelly: did we resolve this -- something in the beginning of the document that defines -- and action item from last week 20:19:18 Kelly: we did resolve it -- keyboard interface. We need to replace in some portions of document 20:20:53 Jeanne: we have to do a level review -- the number of a's that aren't done now -- go through and skim the level a's to see which browsers actually do. 20:21:04 Greg: it would make a lot of sense to have a reference of which ones are implemented and which ones are not. 20:21:41 -Jim_Allan 20:21:48 AndroUser has joined #ua 20:22:38 Greg: even if we can find that a couple of obscure browsers support it, it's going to look like a new feature request, and if we have too many feature requests... 20:24:27 Greg has joined #ua 20:25:02 Jeanne: if we could expand on that wiki page -- listed all a's and said who met each one -- the majors. 20:28:49 -kford 20:31:27 rrsagent, make minutes 20:31:27 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/01/19-ua-minutes.html jeanne 20:35:22 Greg has joined #ua 20:43:53 -Kim_Patch 21:00:21 -Jeanne 21:00:49 -Greg_Lowney 21:00:50 WAI_UAWG()1:00PM has ended 21:00:52 Attendees were kford, Jeanne, Jim_Allan, Wayne, Mark, Greg_Lowney, Kim_Patch 21:02:38 Greg has joined #ua 21:09:26 Greg has joined #ua 21:20:48 Greg has joined #ua 23:03:17 kford has joined #ua