14:36:08 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #rdfa
14:36:08 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/01/19-rdfa-irc
14:36:10 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
14:36:10 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #rdfa
14:36:12 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 7332
14:36:12 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see SW_RDFa()10:00AM scheduled to start in 24 minutes
14:36:13 <trackbot> Meeting: RDF Web Applications Working Group Teleconference
14:36:13 <trackbot> Date: 19 January 2012
14:48:11 <MacTed> MacTed has joined #rdfa
15:00:29 <niklasl> niklasl has joined #rdfa
15:00:41 <ShaneM> ShaneM has joined #rdfa
15:00:42 <Zakim> SW_RDFa()10:00AM has now started
15:00:49 <Zakim> +scor
15:00:52 <Zakim> +OpenLink_Software
15:01:01 <MacTed> Zakim, OpenLink_Software is temporarily me
15:01:01 <Zakim> +MacTed; got it
15:01:04 <MacTed> Zakim, mute me
15:01:04 <Zakim> MacTed should now be muted
15:01:04 <scor> scor has joined #rdfa
15:01:23 <Zakim> + +1.540.961.aaaa
15:01:27 <Zakim> - +1.540.961.aaaa
15:01:34 <Zakim> +??P25
15:01:54 <Zakim> +??P27
15:01:58 <manu1> zakim, I am ??P27
15:01:58 <Zakim> +manu1; got it
15:02:07 <niklasl> zakim, I am ??P25
15:02:07 <Zakim> +niklasl; got it
15:02:20 <manu1> zakim, who is on the call?
15:02:20 <Zakim> On the phone I see scor, MacTed (muted), niklasl, manu1
15:02:34 <Zakim> + +1.612.217.aabb
15:02:40 <ShaneM> zakim, I am aabb
15:02:40 <Zakim> +ShaneM; got it
15:02:56 <ivan> zakim, dial ivan-voip
15:02:56 <Zakim> ok, ivan; the call is being made
15:02:58 <Zakim> +Ivan
15:03:51 <manu1> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdfa-wg/2012Jan/0024.html
15:04:03 <MacTed> Zakim, unmute me
15:04:21 <Zakim> MacTed should no longer be muted
15:04:25 <MacTed> scribenick: MacTed
15:04:28 <MacTed> scribe: Ted
15:09:06 <MacTed> Admin: Agenda review
15:09:07 <manu1> Topic: ISSUE-84: fragment identifiers
15:09:15 <manu1> https://www.w3.org/2010/02/rdfa/track/issues/84
15:09:52 <ShaneM> The spec now says: In some of the examples below we have used IRIs with fragment identifiers that are local to the document containing the RDFa fragment identifiers shown (e.g., 'about="#me"'). This idiom, which is also used in RDF/XML [RDF-SYNTAX-GRAMMAR] and other RDF serializations, gives a simple way to 'mint' new IRIs for entities described by RDFa and therefore contributes considerably to the expressive power of RDFa. The precise meaning of IRIs which inclu
15:10:12 <manu1> PROPOSAL: Adopt the WWW TAG proposed language on fragment identifiers and place it into RDFa Core 1.1
15:10:14 <manu1> +1
15:10:16 <niklasl> +1
15:10:16 <ShaneM> +1
15:10:23 <ivan> +1
15:10:33 <MacTed> +1
15:10:35 <scor> +1
15:10:37 <ivan> RESOLVED: Adopt the WWW TAG proposed language on fragment identifiers and place it into RDFa Core 1.1
15:10:51 <manu1> Topic: ISSUE-125: Refine CURIE syntax
15:11:04 <manu1> https://www.w3.org/2010/02/rdfa/track/issues/125
15:12:47 <MacTed> manu: SPARQL & Turtle use a different CURIE definition than current RDFa; request is that RDFa be aligned to the others
15:13:51 <niklasl> q+
15:14:11 <MacTed> ... concern is that requested revision differs from Turtle and SPARQL by explicitly disallowing http (and possibly some other prefixes)
15:14:39 <manu1> ack niklasl
15:15:24 <MacTed> niklasl: not quite clear on what's allowed and not, by these syntaxes...  forward slashes seem to require backslash-escaping
15:15:52 <MacTed> ... Gavin appears to have misinterpreted some docs
15:17:29 <MacTed> ivan: sympathizes with goal of same syntax across RDFa, SPARQL, & Turtle; but if request is to put an extra restriction in RDFa, not sure that's needed
15:18:34 <manu1> http://www.w3.org/TR/2012/WD-sparql11-query-20120105/#rPN_PREFIX
15:18:42 <MacTed> manu: thinks group would agree that 1 syntax for CURIEs across all specs/languages would be good.  concerned about ways that requested definition differs from Turtle and SPARQL.
15:20:26 <scor> does the current RDFa syntax definition for CURIEs allow http:// ?
15:21:12 <ShaneM> I am not in favor of making changes to this at this time.
15:21:14 <niklasl> scor: I'm afraid so
15:21:23 <MacTed> ivan: sees 2 concerns from Gavin.  1 = discrepancy between RDFa and SPARQL/Turtle CURIE def; 2 = prefix restriction(s)
15:24:26 <MacTed> (...discussion...)  suggested (quoted?) syntax BNF in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdfa-wg/2012Jan/0025.html would disallow many currently acceptable CURIEs
15:25:41 <ShaneM> this BNF is making my eyes bleed
15:28:07 <MacTed> (...discussion...)  schema.org extensions via '/' would be invalidated by this syntax
15:28:43 <ivan> http://schema.org/docs/full.html
15:29:06 <scor> ivan: not as far as I know
15:29:17 <scor> these are full types of their own
15:29:25 <niklasl> look at http://schema.org/docs/schemaorg.owl
15:29:39 <scor> ivan: it's only for external parties willing to extend these types
15:29:44 <ivan> http://schema.org/docs/extension.html
15:29:47 <scor> not on schema.org itself
15:30:45 <scor> we should bounce the / issue back to Gavin and the RDF WG
15:31:03 <scor> re the use of / in DBpedia and schema.org extensions
15:31:09 <MacTed> manu: we've confirmed a real-world use case requiring unescaped slashes in CURIEs, with third-party extensions of schema.org
15:31:39 <manu1> PROPOSAL: Accept the SPARQL 1.1 Query Language definition of PN_LOCAL and PN_PREFIX for CURIEs in RDFa 1.1
15:31:50 <manu1> -1
15:31:53 <scor> -1
15:32:03 <ivan> -1
15:32:05 <ShaneM> -1
15:32:21 <ShaneM> I am a big fan of dbpedia reference
15:32:23 <niklasl> +0
15:32:47 <MacTed> +0
15:33:00 <manu1> RESOLVED: Accept the SPARQL 1.1 Query Language definition of PN_LOCAL and PN_PREFIX for CURIEs in RDFa 1.1
15:33:27 <MacTed> s/Accept/Reject/
15:33:31 <manu1> BIG MISTAKE - that was rejected!
15:33:31 <MacTed> s/Accept/Reject/
15:34:28 <MacTed> (hm.  doubled s/Accept/Reject/ sequence may have re-broken that in minutes.  RESOLUTION is correctly to REJECT.)
15:34:43 <ShaneM> q+ about why this is all a bad idea
15:35:12 <niklasl> q+
15:35:32 <manu1> ack niklasl
15:35:39 <niklasl> .. http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdfa-wg/2012Jan/0027.html
15:37:45 <ShaneM> BTW we published the CURIE spec as a  note when the xhtml working group shut down: http://www.w3.org/TR/curie/
15:40:40 <MacTed> (...discussion...) colon as separation character is where the trouble lies, but fixing that is an enormous task touching many specs
15:41:32 <ShaneM> I am actually not opposed to preventing a slash as a first character
15:41:41 <ShaneM> (of a reference)
15:42:56 <ivan> 0
15:44:39 <manu1> PROPOSAL: Prevent a slash as the first character in the reference part of a CURIE.
15:44:41 <manu1> -1
15:44:47 <ivan> 0
15:45:02 <ivan> q+
15:45:16 <MacTed> (...discussion...) past specs allowed what we're considering disallowing... which means we're building backward incompatibility
15:45:28 <manu1> ack ivan
15:46:02 <MacTed> (...discussion...) current refinement suggestions are further departure from CURIE specs in SPARQL and Turtle, not alignment
15:47:34 <ShaneM> 0
15:47:39 <niklasl> +1
15:47:39 <ivan> -0
15:47:55 <MacTed> +0
15:48:01 <scor> -0
15:49:11 <ivan> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdfa-wg/2012Jan/0031.html
15:49:59 <manu1> Topic: Use of RDFa in XML-based languages
15:58:59 <manu1> PROPOSAL: Change XML+RDFa such that RDFa attributes are defined in 'no namespace' and also caution authors that they must pay attention to XML-based languages where the RDFa attributes and Host Language attributes may overlap.
16:00:16 <ivan> +1
16:00:19 <manu1> +1
16:00:22 <MacTed> +1
16:00:24 <ShaneM> +1
16:00:25 <niklasl> +1
16:00:36 <scor> +1
16:00:38 <manu1> RESOLVED: Change XML+RDFa such that RDFa attributes are defined in 'no namespace' and also caution authors that they must pay attention to XML-based languages where the RDFa attributes and Host Language attributes may overlap.
16:01:23 <manu1> Topic: @resource in RDFaLite 1.1
16:06:53 <MacTed> RRSAgent, draft minutes
16:06:53 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/01/19-rdfa-minutes.html MacTed
16:06:56 <MacTed> RRSAgent, make logs public
16:06:57 <Zakim> -Ivan
16:06:59 <Zakim> -manu1
16:07:04 <MacTed> trackbot, end meeting
16:07:04 <trackbot> Zakim, list attendees
16:07:04 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been scor, MacTed, +1.540.961.aaaa, manu1, niklasl, +1.612.217.aabb, ShaneM, Ivan
16:07:07 <Zakim> -scor
16:07:07 <trackbot> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
16:07:07 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/01/19-rdfa-minutes.html trackbot
16:07:08 <trackbot> RRSAgent, bye
16:07:08 <RRSAgent> I see no action items
16:07:09 <Zakim> -ShaneM
16:07:10 <Zakim> -niklasl