15:58:23 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #html-a11y
15:58:23 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/01/19-html-a11y-irc
15:58:25 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
15:58:27 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 2119
15:58:28 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #html-a11y
15:58:28 <trackbot> Meeting: HTML Accessibility Task Force Teleconference
15:58:28 <trackbot> Date: 19 January 2012
15:59:00 <janina> Meeting: HTML-A11Y Task Force Teleconference
15:59:00 <janina> Chair: Janina_Sajka
15:59:00 <janina> agenda+ Issue Followup: What new issues? Next steps?
15:59:00 <janina> agenda+ Subteam Reports: ARIA Mapping; Text; Media
15:59:00 <janina> agenda+ Other Business
15:59:01 <janina> agenda+ Actions Review http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/track/actions/open
15:59:03 <janina> agenda+ Identify Scribe for 26 January http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/index.php?title=Scribe_List
15:59:05 <janina> agenda+ be done
15:59:57 <lwatson> lwatson has joined #html-a11y
16:00:05 <paulc> paulc has joined #html-a11y
16:02:11 <LeonieW> LeonieW has joined #html-a11y
16:02:42 <janina>  zakim, who's here?
16:02:43 <paulc> zakim, who is on the call?
16:02:47 <Zakim> sorry, janina, I don't know what conference this is
16:02:53 <Zakim> sorry, paulc, I don't know what conference this is
16:02:59 <Zakim> On IRC I see LeonieW, paulc, Zakim, RRSAgent, Shilpi, janina, MichaelC, MikeSmith, trackbot, [tm]
16:04:02 <janina> zakim, this will be WAI_PFWG(HTML
16:04:19 <Zakim> ok, janina, I see WAI_PFWG(HTML TF)11:00AM already started
16:04:30 <paulc> zakim, who is on the call?
16:05:09 <Zakim> On the phone I see ??P57, John_Foliot, Cynthia_Shelly, [Microsoft], ??P50, ??P53 (muted)
16:05:10 <LeonieW> scribe: LeonieW
16:05:27 <MikeSmith> Zakim, call Mike
16:05:30 <janina> zakim, ??P50 is Janina_Sajka
16:05:51 <Zakim> ok, MikeSmith; the call is being made
16:05:53 <Zakim> +Judy
16:05:54 <Zakim> +Mike
16:05:57 <Zakim> +Janina_Sajka; got it
16:06:53 <richardschwerdtfe> richardschwerdtfe has joined #html-a11y
16:07:15 <paulc> Zakin, [Microsoft] has paulc
16:07:23 <Zakim> +Rich
16:07:29 <Zakim> +Cooper
16:07:31 <paulc> Zakim, [Microsoft] has paulc
16:07:31 <Zakim> +paulc; got it
16:07:34 <janina> zakim, who's on the phone?
16:07:34 <Zakim> On the phone I see ??P57, John_Foliot, Cynthia_Shelly, [Microsoft], Janina_Sajka, ??P53 (muted), Judy, Mike, Rich, Cooper
16:07:36 <Zakim> [Microsoft] has paulc
16:07:59 <LeonieW> scribenick: LeonieW
16:08:36 <MichaelC> zakim, Janina is Léonie_Watson
16:08:36 <Zakim> +Léonie_Watson; got it
16:08:41 <MichaelC> zakim, ??P57 is Janina_Sajka
16:08:41 <Zakim> +Janina_Sajka; got it
16:08:49 <Zakim> +??P15
16:09:04 <MichaelC> zakim, ??P15 is Steve_Faulkner
16:09:04 <Zakim> +Steve_Faulkner; got it
16:09:08 <Stevef> Stevef has joined #html-a11y
16:10:04 <MichaelC> zakim, drop ??P53
16:10:05 <Zakim> ??P53 is being disconnected
16:10:06 <Zakim> -??P53
16:10:52 <LeonieW> JS: Two things to do. Figure out if we got everything we wanted, and to figure out our next steps before Feb 11th.
16:11:31 <LeonieW> JS: Thank you to Paul for forwarding escalations and other information through to the TF list.
16:11:39 <Stevef> q+
16:11:53 <Zakim> -John_Foliot
16:12:03 <LeonieW> JS: Does anyone have a direct concern about any issues?
16:12:20 <LeonieW> JB: Thank you also to Paul for the update on the longdesc issue.
16:12:22 <Zakim> +John_Foliot
16:13:21 <LeonieW> PC: Judy is referring to a thread open on the chair's list.
16:14:03 <LeonieW> rrsagent, make minutes
16:14:03 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/01/19-html-a11y-minutes.html LeonieW
16:14:46 <Zakim> -John_Foliot
16:14:48 <LeonieW> PC: If the TF has a preferred order that issues are processed in, information on how or why an issue should be prioritised would be helpful.
16:15:06 <Zakim> +John_Foliot
16:15:15 <paulc> q+
16:15:25 <janina> q?
16:15:31 <janina> ack ste
16:16:07 <LeonieW> SF: Only re-opened requests have to be provided by 11th Feb. Most change proposals are due by 18th Feb.
16:16:22 <paulc> http://dev.w3.org/html5/status/issue-status.html
16:17:31 <LeonieW> PC: Most are due on the 15th or 16th. The chairs were being conservative, and considerate to the TF at the same time.
16:17:35 <paulc> q-
16:17:40 <janina> q?
16:17:58 <LeonieW> PC: We did decide to stick to the 11th for re-opned requests.
16:18:07 <LeonieW> rrsagent, make minutes
16:18:07 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/01/19-html-a11y-minutes.html LeonieW
16:18:14 <cyns> cyns has joined #html-a11y
16:18:19 <paulc> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-archive/2012Jan/0022.html
16:18:59 <LeonieW> PC: We sent a personal reminder to people who have re-opned requests without change proposals.
16:19:24 <LeonieW> PC: Job 1 is to figure out who, and when.
16:19:41 <LeonieW> JS: We need our wiki updated with these new issues. Could someone take that on?
16:21:03 <LeonieW> LW: If someone can let me know what and where, I don't mind.
16:21:31 <LeonieW> RS: Paul, were the chairs able to review the proposal for the baseline?
16:21:47 <LeonieW> PC: I'll be frank, no. It rings a bell though. Let me check a moment.
16:21:54 <LeonieW> rrsagent, make minutes
16:21:54 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/01/19-html-a11y-minutes.html LeonieW
16:22:32 <LeonieW> JS: Lets walk through the issues one by one and identify a primary stakeholder.
16:23:33 <LeonieW> Topic: Issue 193
16:24:08 <MichaelC> -> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/193 HTML-ISSUE-193
16:24:15 <Zakim> -Judy
16:24:44 <paulc> Re ISSUE-131 - see my email to the TF in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2012Jan/0161.html
16:24:57 <LeonieW> SF: There is an example in the spec that advocates a CSS technique that causes problems for keyboard only users in relation to visible focus.
16:25:01 <Zakim> +Judy
16:25:04 <paulc> ISSUE-131 is open and there is a pending call for change proposals.
16:25:13 <LeonieW> Topic: Issue 194
16:25:26 <MichaelC> -> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/194 HTML-ISSUE-194
16:26:10 <LeonieW> JF: There is no way to link a transcript with an audio or video element. 
16:26:47 <LeonieW> JF: I can write the change proposal for this. I'll ping Silvia, as she filed the bug originally.
16:27:51 <LeonieW> rrsagent, make minutes
16:27:51 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/01/19-html-a11y-minutes.html LeonieW
16:28:19 <LeonieW> Topic: Issue 199
16:28:31 <MichaelC> -> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/199 HTML-ISSUE-199
16:28:52 <LeonieW> MC: This is the omnibus escalation that encompasses all ARIA bugs.
16:29:31 <LeonieW> MC: We took a representative bug and escalated it, then tied similar smaller bugs into it.
16:29:31 <Stevef> q+
16:30:36 <paulc> See http://dev.w3.org/html5/status/issue-status.html#ISSUE-199 which lists the other bugs
16:30:42 <LeonieW> RS: How does one write a change proposal for this? Was the plan for multiple proposals?
16:32:00 <LeonieW> RS: What's the time frame for proposals?
16:32:13 <LeonieW> PC: Until 16th Feb.
16:32:37 <LeonieW> JS: Do we need to reconstitute the ARIA mapping sub team?
16:34:07 <paulc> I don't understand the statement "the Editor is not responding".
16:34:48 <LeonieW> SF: Is it worth us providing the information needed for these bugs, and asking him to write something?
16:35:01 <LeonieW> MC: No, it's probably better for us to write something.
16:35:54 <MikeSmith> for the record, I believe it was a mistake to escalate those issues at this point
16:36:23 <paulc> q+
16:36:25 <LeonieW> SF: We hadn't responded to the needs info request. They're important for HTML5 now, not just down the track.
16:36:32 <MikeSmith> in general, I think it's a mistake to prematurely escalate any issues until we have clearly reached a point of disagreement with an editor
16:36:33 <LeonieW> rrsagent, make minutes
16:36:33 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/01/19-html-a11y-minutes.html LeonieW
16:36:34 <janina> q?
16:36:42 <Stevef> ak stevef
16:36:46 <janina> ack st	ack pau	
16:36:51 <janina> ack ste
16:36:52 <janina> ack pau
16:37:44 <MikeSmith> the escalation path was intended for not being used until we had reached an impasse -- that is, when it was clear the we could not get agreement between the editor and a commenter 
16:37:50 <LeonieW> PC: The bugs here are linked because I recommended to the TF that they should be. If they need to be split at any point for whatever reason, you should let me know.
16:38:19 <paulc> q-
16:39:18 <LeonieW> SF: What happens if we de-escalate them? Does that move them out of LC bugs?
16:39:20 <MikeSmith> what we are doing by escalating them is cutting off the normal process of attempting to reach agreement in a reasonable way and instead imposing months of additional change-proposal-writing and process overhead on ourselves and the group and the chairs
16:40:05 <LeonieW> PC: The chairs are always willing to see bugs closed based on consensus. The editor has told us he's not working on LC bugs at the moment. 
16:40:18 <MikeSmith> despite him having said that, he has been resolving LC bugs
16:40:27 <MikeSmith> we are now down to 35 LC bugs
16:40:36 <MikeSmith> and Hixie is continuing to work on them
16:40:51 <LeonieW> PC: If you don't escalate them and don't get agreement with the editor, they will be moved into the next LC or to a later draft of the spec.
16:41:11 <LeonieW> SF: We can still provide further information to the editor, or we can go further and provide the change proposal.
16:41:30 <LeonieW> JS: Suggest a meeting is the sensible next step.
16:41:34 <LeonieW> rrsagent, make minutes
16:41:34 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/01/19-html-a11y-minutes.html LeonieW
16:41:54 <LeonieW> SF: Mike, what do you suggest?
16:42:38 <LeonieW> MS: Suggest we continue to get these bugs resolved. In particular the bug about lexical processing rules in ARIA. Hixie couldn't do anythig further, he was waiting for information.
16:43:13 <LeonieW> SF: If we de-escalate them, can we later re-escalate them?
16:43:19 <LeonieW> PC: No, that date has passed.
16:43:51 <Judy> Judy has joined #html-a11y
16:43:56 <MikeSmith> q+ to repeat that the escalation path was intended for bugs for which we had clearly reached an impasse and have no other way of reaching agreement
16:44:04 <Judy> q+
16:44:22 <LeonieW> JS: Isn't this substantively the same thing?
16:44:44 <paulc> q+
16:45:19 <Judy> q?
16:45:20 <LeonieW> CS: If there's information to be provided, let's provide it.
16:45:25 <Judy> ack ju
16:45:43 <LeonieW> RS: Paul, what is the response time after a change proposal has been submitted?
16:46:46 <LeonieW> PC: As soon as the change proposal deadline passes, there will be a counter proposal invitation.
16:48:00 <Judy> agenda?
16:48:01 <LeonieW> PC: After 15th and 16th Feb, there will be a month for counter proposals to be submitted.
16:48:21 <LeonieW> rrsagent, make minutes
16:48:21 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/01/19-html-a11y-minutes.html LeonieW
16:48:30 <LeonieW> RS: That timetable might be difficult.
16:48:33 <Judy> q?
16:48:45 <LeonieW> PC: The timetable has been published for some while now.
16:49:18 <LeonieW> JF: Is it reasonable to presume that we could request an extension to the timeline?
16:49:24 <LeonieW> PC: No idea how the chairs would respond.
16:49:32 <LeonieW> JF: So would it be unreasonable to request?
16:49:52 <LeonieW> PC: If you want to do that, you should go ahead. I can't offer an opinion.
16:50:08 <LeonieW> rrsagent, make minutes
16:50:08 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/01/19-html-a11y-minutes.html LeonieW
16:51:10 <janina> q?
16:51:15 <MikeSmith> q-
16:51:29 <cyns> q+
16:51:31 <janina> ack mi
16:51:37 <janina> ack pau
16:52:39 <janina> ack cy
16:54:30 <LeonieW> Topic: Issue 200
16:54:36 <MichaelC> -> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/200 HTML-ISSUE-200
16:54:42 <LeonieW> rrsagent, make minutes
16:54:42 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/01/19-html-a11y-minutes.html LeonieW
16:54:55 <LeonieW> MC: Not sure this is a11y related.
16:55:06 <LeonieW> JS: Not for us to worry about.
16:55:06 <MichaelC> -> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/201 HTML-ISSUE-201
16:55:18 <LeonieW> Topic: Issue 201
16:55:30 <LeonieW> RS: Frank was looking into this one. 
16:55:46 <LeonieW> CS: He is aware of it, but it's not his first priority right now.
16:55:57 <LeonieW> RS: We can help him write it up.
16:57:18 <LeonieW> RS: I'm trying to get Ian some use cases to address deficiencies relating to carat and fallback etc.
16:57:22 <LeonieW> Topic: Issue 202
16:57:25 <LeonieW> rrsagent, make minutes
16:57:25 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/01/19-html-a11y-minutes.html LeonieW
16:57:26 <MichaelC> -> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/202 HTML-ISSUE-202
16:58:07 <LeonieW> JS: One for the text sub team.
16:58:21 <LeonieW> JB: We can discuss on the text call.
16:58:26 <LeonieW> Topic: Issue 203
16:58:40 <MichaelC> -> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/203 HTML-ISSUE-203
16:59:03 <LeonieW> JF: This is dependent on the outcome of issue 30 (longdesc).
16:59:17 <LeonieW> JF: Therefore not sure how to proceed on this one.
17:00:20 <LeonieW> PC: You should raise up that issue 30 needs to  be processed in a timely way before issue 203 can be addressed.
17:00:22 <LeonieW> rrsagent, make minutes
17:00:22 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/01/19-html-a11y-minutes.html LeonieW
17:00:26 <paulc> ISSUE-131 email:
17:00:27 <paulc> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2012Jan/0161.html
17:00:46 <LeonieW> PC: Earlier we spoke about issue 131. I've pasted the response in channel.
17:00:58 <LeonieW> rrsagent, make minutes
17:00:58 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/01/19-html-a11y-minutes.html LeonieW
17:01:15 <Zakim> -Steve_Faulkner
17:01:17 <Zakim> -John_Foliot
17:01:19 <Zakim> -Mike
17:01:23 <Zakim> -Cynthia_Shelly
17:01:25 <Zakim> -Léonie_Watson
17:01:27 <Zakim> -Cooper
17:01:29 <Zakim> -Janina_Sajka
17:01:31 <Zakim> -Judy
17:01:33 <paulc> quit
17:01:57 <Zakim> -[Microsoft]
17:05:53 <LeonieW> Present: Janina Sajka, Mike Smith, Judy Brewer, Michael Cooper, Paul Cotton, Rich Schwerdtfeger, John Foliot, Cynthia Shelley, Léonie Watson, Steve Faulkner
17:06:04 <LeonieW> rrsagent, make minutes
17:06:04 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/01/19-html-a11y-minutes.html LeonieW
17:06:56 <LeonieW> zakim, please part
17:06:56 <Zakim> leaving.  As of this point the attendees were John_Foliot, Cynthia_Shelly, Judy, Mike, Janina_Sajka, Rich, Cooper, paulc, Léonie_Watson, Steve_Faulkner
17:06:56 <Zakim> Zakim has left #html-a11y
17:07:07 <LeonieW> rrsagent, please part
17:07:07 <RRSAgent> I see no action items