IRC log of ua on 2012-01-13

Timestamps are in UTC.

17:51:45 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #ua
17:51:45 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/01/13-ua-irc
17:51:47 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs public
17:51:47 [Zakim]
Zakim has joined #ua
17:51:49 [trackbot]
Zakim, this will be WAI_UAWG
17:51:49 [Zakim]
ok, trackbot; I see WAI_UAWG()1:00PM scheduled to start in 9 minutes
17:51:50 [trackbot]
Meeting: User Agent Accessibility Guidelines Working Group Teleconference
17:51:50 [trackbot]
Date: 13 January 2012
17:58:03 [Zakim]
WAI_UAWG()1:00PM has now started
17:58:10 [Zakim]
+ +1.425.883.aaaa
17:58:31 [kford]
zakim, 425.883.aaaa is kford
17:58:31 [Zakim]
sorry, kford, I do not recognize a party named '425.883.aaaa'
17:58:56 [kford]
zakim, 1.425.883.aaaa is kford
17:58:56 [Zakim]
sorry, kford, I do not recognize a party named '1.425.883.aaaa'
17:59:08 [kford]
zakim, aaaa ks kford
17:59:08 [Zakim]
I don't understand 'aaaa ks kford', kford
17:59:16 [kford]
zakim, aaaa is kford
17:59:16 [Zakim]
+kford; got it
18:00:05 [Greg]
Greg has joined #ua
18:01:03 [mhakkinen]
mhakkinen has joined #ua
18:01:11 [Zakim]
+Greg_Lowney
18:01:52 [Zakim]
+Jeanne
18:02:26 [mhakkinen]
i am on an competing concall... no end in sight. I will be here on irc.
18:03:22 [jeanne]
jeanne has joined #ua
18:03:34 [jeanne]
zakim, code?
18:03:34 [Zakim]
the conference code is 8294 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), jeanne
18:03:38 [Zakim]
-Greg_Lowney
18:04:03 [Zakim]
+Greg_Lowney
18:05:40 [jeanne]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2012JanMar/0011.html
18:07:41 [jeanne]
zakim, who is here?
18:07:42 [Zakim]
On the phone I see kford, Jeanne, Greg_Lowney
18:07:43 [Zakim]
On IRC I see jeanne, mhakkinen, Greg, Zakim, RRSAgent, kford, trackbot
18:10:16 [jeanne]
http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/2011/ED-UAAG20-20111227/#gl-store-prefs
18:10:40 [jeanne]
http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/2011/ED-IMPLEMENTING-UAAG20-20111227/#gl-store-prefs
18:28:40 [jeanne]
Mark, there is an Editor's note in the Media section that says - @@ Editors' Note: If an author uses windows media player inside the video element, the browser needs to map its native controls to the embedded wmp controls, and provide access to all the controls. @@ -- Is this something you remember? Do you want to do anything with it, or should we let it go.
18:29:17 [mhakkinen]
just a sec.
18:29:41 [mhakkinen]
I think we should let it go at this point.
18:29:52 [jeanne]
excellent, I agree.
18:39:16 [KimPatch]
KimPatch has joined #ua
18:40:23 [KimPatch]
Sorry for the late entry -- is there a different conference code for the call?
18:41:34 [Zakim]
+Kim_Patch
19:09:33 [Greg]
2.7.2 Persistent Accessibility Settings: User agent accessibility preference settings persist between sessions. (Level A)
19:09:35 [Greg]
•Examples of Success Criterion 2.7.2 :
19:09:37 [Greg]
oLynn has moderately low vision, and sets the default zoom level, font size, and colors to make pages easier for her to read. Because those settings are persistent, she doesn't have to manually restore her settings every time she starts the browser.
19:09:38 [Greg]
oBrian has to adjust some settings in his browser to make it fully compatible with his speech input system. It's difficult for him to get it set up, since he can't fully operate the browser until it's done, so once it's configured this way he relies on it staying in that configuration even if he upgrades the browser, restarts his system and so forth.
19:09:59 [Greg]
2.7.3 Restore all to default: The user can restore all preference settings to default values. (Level A)
19:10:01 [Greg]
•Examples of Success Criterion 2.7.3 :
19:10:02 [Greg]
oRon accidentally changes a browser setting that makes his browser incompatible with his screen reader, preventing him from changing it back. He instead restarts his browser using a command line option that starts it in the default configuration, which he's able to use, and from there he can change the setting that caused him problems.
19:10:30 [Greg]
2.7.4 Multiple Sets of Preference Settings: The user can save and retrieve multiple sets of user agent preference settings. (Level AA)
19:10:32 [Greg]
•Examples of Success Criterion 2.7.4 :
19:10:33 [Greg]
oWhen Hiroki is carrying his tablet computer he operates it with the built-in touchscreen, but when at his desk he links it to a Bluetooth keyboard and mouse, and redirects the display to a full-size computer monitor. The browser allows him to quickly switch between two completely different configurations for these different environments.
19:10:35 [Greg]
oDavy has moderately low vision and prefers to adjust the contrast of media differently during the day than at night. Because this requires a number of different steps, for different types of media and aspects of the browser's display, he has two user profiles, one for each environment.
19:10:36 [Greg]
oAaron usually uses a keyboard and mouse, but when his repetitive strain injury is bothering him he prefers to use the mouse and avoid using the keyboard as much as possible. At those times he users his browser's user preference profiles to load a different configuration that’s optimized for the mouse, including custom toolbars that make most of the commands he uses available as toolbar...
19:10:39 [Greg]
...buttons.
19:12:28 [jeanne]
rrsagent, make minutes
19:12:28 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/01/13-ua-minutes.html jeanne
19:14:48 [kford]
Sample text for 3.3.3 and 3.3.4
19:15:06 [kford]
3.3.3
19:15:08 [kford]
Martha goes to an app store on her computer and notices that an update for the web browser she uses is available. She installs it and finds a welcome page talking about the new features in this release when she launches the updated version of the browser. One of the links on that page says "What's new For Accessibility". following this link Martha reads about the accessibility improvements adde
19:15:10 [kford]
d and discovers this update had added a feature allowing her to have tooltips displayed for elements when she is using caret browsing. the text says, "In this version, we added the ability to display tooltips on elements with a title attribute when using the keyboard. With caret browsing turned on simply arrow onto an element with a title and the tooltip will remain visible while the caret...
19:15:11 [kford]
...is within the element."
19:15:13 [kford]
3.3.4
19:15:14 [kford]
Bob downloads a new web browser on his mobile phone. he's never used this software before and also uses a screen reader that is part of his phone's operating system. He opens a help option for the web browser and finds an accessibility section that gives details on the various accessibility features of the browser such as screen layout, interaction with his screen reader and a list of...
19:15:18 [kford]
...supported touch gestures.
19:21:26 [jeanne]
topic: 2.11.7
19:21:36 [jeanne]
Jared has a print disability which makes it laborious to read text. He is watching a technical training video which will display section objectives or summary questions as text. When the text flashes by too quickly for him to read, he presses a key command to skip back an increment so he can read the text, or pause the video if more time is required.
19:21:45 [jeanne]
____ has difficulty with bright or flashing video. When she encounters a flashing transition in a video, she quickly presses a key command to forward the video past the flashing, then carefully uses the slider to adjust the video back to the start of the next section avoiding the flashing material.
19:21:52 [jeanne]
topic: 2.11.8
19:22:06 [jeanne]
Marka is blind and is listening to a video of an hour-long lecture. The section she is in has some complex material that builds on material from an earlier section. While a sighted user could pause the video and move the slider back until she recognized visually distinct content from the section she wanted, Marka uses a control to skip back section by section until she finds the material she
19:22:06 [jeanne]
wants to review. When she is finished, Marka uses the control to move forward section by section until she reaches the original topic.
19:22:18 [jeanne]
topic: 2.11.9
19:22:30 [jeanne]
Marka is listening to a video of a lecture. The professor is demonstrating a chemistry experiment and is not speaking during a key part. Since she cannot see what the professor is demonstrating, Marka brings up a menu of the available tracks and discovers that there is a audio description track avaialbe. Marka selects the description track, rewinds a few minutes, and listens to the description
19:22:30 [jeanne]
of the experiment.
19:22:38 [jeanne]
Gorges is deaf, and enjoys current run movies. He subscribes to a web service that streams major popular movies. While he speaks english, a certain movie uses a slang that he doesn't understand. He pauses the movie, selects a menu of caption tracks and finds a Spanish caption track. He then watches the rest of the movie with Spanish captioning.
19:22:52 [jeanne]
topic: 2.11.11
19:23:02 [jeanne]
_______ has low vision and works in a noisy environment that makes it difficult to listen to instructional videos. When he enlarges the text of the captions to a viewable size, they block most of the video image. ____ selects an option that displays the caption track in a separate window, which he positions below the video image so they captions do not block the video image.
19:23:12 [jeanne]
topic: 2.11.12
19:23:19 [jeanne]
______ has low vision that requires a higher contrast to discern the image. When _____ is watching an instructional video, he selects a menu that allows him to increase the contrast of the video, to make it easier for him to see the important content.
19:23:27 [jeanne]
_____ has photoepilepsy and is watching an amateur video taken on a sunny day near the water. Concerned that the video may contain flashing that could trigger a seizure, _____ selects a menu of video controls that allow her to reduce the brightness and contrast of the video. While some of the detail is lost, ______ can safely watch the video.
19:24:00 [KimPatch]
2.10 Summary
19:24:12 [jeanne]
topic: Kim's Summarys
19:24:28 [jeanne]
rrsagent, make minutes
19:24:28 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/01/13-ua-minutes.html jeanne
19:24:50 [KimPatch]
2.10 Summary
19:24:52 [KimPatch]
The user can avoid potential seizures with a default browser configuration that does not flash more three times a second above a luminescence or color threshold (2.10.1), or at all (2.10.2).
19:24:53 [KimPatch]
2.11 Summary
19:24:55 [KimPatch]
The user can control background images (2.11.1), render and control placeholders for time-based media and executable content (2.11.2, 2.11.3, 2.11.4), adjust playback of prerecorded time-based media (2.11.5), control time-based media and animation (2.11.6), navigate time-based media by time (2.11.7) or semantics (2.11.8), specify time-based media tracks (2.11.9), scale and position alternative med
19:24:56 [KimPatch]
ia tracks (2.11.11), and adjust contrast and brightness of visual time-based media (2.11.12).
19:27:07 [kford]
Updated version, see last sentence of first example.
19:27:17 [kford]
3.3.3
19:27:19 [kford]
Martha goes to an app store on her computer and notices that an update for the web browser she uses is available. She installs it and finds a welcome page talking about the new features in this release when she launches the updated version of the browser. One of the links on that page says "What's new For Accessibility". following this link Martha reads about the accessibility improvements adde
19:27:20 [kford]
d and discovers this update had added a feature allowing her to have tooltips displayed for elements when she is using caret browsing. the text says, "In this version, we added the ability to display tooltips on elements with a title attribute when using the keyboard. With caret browsing turned on simply arrow onto an element with a title and the tooltip will remain visible while the caret...
19:27:22 [kford]
...is within the element." The text also informs Martha that this feature is off by default and that she should go to accessibility settings to turn it on.
19:27:23 [kford]
3.3.4
19:27:25 [kford]
Bob downloads a new web browser on his mobile phone. he's never used this software before and also uses a screen reader that is part of his phone's operating system. He opens a help option for the web browser and finds an accessibility section that gives details on the various accessibility features of the browser such as screen layout, interaction with his screen reader and a list of...
19:27:30 [kford]
...supported touch gestures.
19:39:42 [Wayne]
Wayne has joined #ua
19:41:43 [KimPatch]
The user can avoid potential seizures with a default browser configuration that does not flash more three times a second above a luminescence or color threshold (2.10.1), or does not flash at all (2.10.2).
19:42:22 [KimPatch]
The user can control background images (2.11.1), render and control placeholders for time-based media and executable content (2.11.2, 2.11.3, 2.11.4), adjust playback of prerecorded time-based media (2.11.5), control time-based media and animation (2.11.6), navigate time-based media by time (2.11.7) or semantics (2.11.8), specify time-based media tracks (2.11.9), scale and position alternative med
19:42:23 [KimPatch]
ia tracks (2.11.11), and adjust contrast and brightness of visual time-based media (2.11.12).
19:43:00 [Zakim]
+Wayne
19:45:37 [Greg]
Maybe "...adjust the playback rate of (2.11.5) and stop/pause/resume (2.11.6) media and animation..."
19:47:04 [KimPatch]
2.10
19:47:05 [KimPatch]
The user can avoid potential seizures with a default browser configuration that does not flash more than three times a second above a luminescence or color threshold (2.10.1), or does not flash at all (2.10.2).
19:47:07 [KimPatch]
2.11
19:47:09 [KimPatch]
The user can control background images (2.11.1), render and control placeholders for time-based media and executable content (2.11.2, 2.11.3, 2.11.4), adjust playback of prerecorded time-based media (2.11.5), control (2.11.6), navigate, (2.11.7) and specify tracks for time-based media (2.11.9), scale and position alternative media tracks (2.11.11), and adjust contrast and brightness of...
19:47:10 [KimPatch]
...visual time-based media (2.11.12).
19:52:41 [Greg]
"The user can prevent types of flashing that commonly cause seizures (2.10.1) or flashing altogether (2.10.2)"
19:54:57 [jeanne]
rrsagent, make minutes
19:54:57 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/01/13-ua-minutes.html jeanne
19:55:05 [jeanne]
topic: Wayne's proposal for 2.5
19:55:38 [jeanne]
ack way
19:57:28 [Wayne]
1.11.1 Access Relationships:
19:57:28 [Wayne]
The user can access explicitly-defined relationships based on the
19:57:28 [Wayne]
user's position in content (e.g. show form control's label, show
19:57:28 [Wayne]
label's form control, show a cell's table headers). (Level A)
19:57:28 [Wayne]
2.5.3 Location in Hierarchy
19:57:28 [Wayne]
The user can view the path of nodes leading from the root of any
19:57:30 [Wayne]
content hierarchy in which the structure and semantics are implied by
19:57:32 [Wayne]
presentation, as opposed to an explicit logical structure with defined
19:57:34 [Wayne]
semantics (such as the HTML5 Canvas Element), or as a consequence of
19:57:36 [Wayne]
decentralized-extensibility (such as the HTML5 item / itemprop
19:57:38 [Wayne]
microdata elements), and only if the user agent keeps an internal
19:57:40 [Wayne]
model of the hierarchy that it does not expose via the [DOM] or some
19:57:42 [Wayne]
other accessibility mechanism. (Level A) .
19:57:44 [Wayne]
Jan Richards Substitute 2.5.3
19:57:46 [Wayne]
The user can view the path of nodes leading from the root to the
19:57:48 [Wayne]
current focussed element.
19:57:50 [Wayne]
2.5.5 Access to Relationships which Aid Navigation:
19:57:52 [Wayne]
The user can access explicitly-defined relationships based on the
19:57:54 [Wayne]
user's position in content, and the path of nodes leading from the
19:57:56 [Wayne]
root of any content hierarchy to that position. (Level AA)
19:57:58 [Wayne]
Ambiguities:
19:58:00 [Wayne]
What is the difference between 1.11.1 and 2.5.5. Also, what does "the
19:58:02 [Wayne]
root of any content hierarchy to that position" mean?
20:16:04 [Wayne]
2.5.5 Access to Relationships which Aid Navigation: The user can access explicitly-defined relationships based on the user's position in content, and the path of nodes leading from the root of any content hierarchy to that position. (Level AA)
20:20:48 [Wayne]
Jan Richards Substitute 2.5.3
20:20:49 [Wayne]
The user can view the path of nodes leading from the root to the current focussed element.
20:28:21 [KimPatch]
Topic: Summary's
20:28:22 [KimPatch]
2.10 Summary
20:28:24 [KimPatch]
The user can prevent (2.10.1) or avoid (2.10.2) types of flashing that commonly cause seizures.
20:28:25 [KimPatch]
2.11 Summary
20:28:27 [KimPatch]
The user can control background images (2.11.1); render and control placeholders for time-based media and executable content (2.11.2, 2.11.3, 2.11.4); adjust playback (2.11.5), stop/pause/resume (2.11.6), navigate, (2.11.7) and specify tracks for prerecorded time-based media (2.11.9); scale and position alternative media tracks (2.11.11); and adjust contrast and brightness of visual...
20:28:29 [KimPatch]
...time-based media (2.11.12).
20:28:31 [KimPatch]
Note: normalize animation and prerecorded time based media in 2.11 sc’s
20:29:27 [Greg]
"The user can prevent flashing in ways that are moderately cautious (2.10.1) or extremely cautious (2.10.2)."
20:48:12 [kford]
Proposed 5.1.1:
20:48:22 [kford]
Note, this is shorter than what is in the document today.
20:48:24 [kford]
the operating system on which a user agent is running, generally has expected conventions around accessibility for areas such as keyboard behavior, support of an accessibility API user interface design, and other standards related to accessibility. The intent of this success criteria is to ensure that user agents comply with the basic accessibility requirmenets on where they are in use.
20:53:42 [jeanne]
Wayne, we are reconvening if you want to join us
20:56:10 [Wayne]
requirements [of the platform in use]
20:58:05 [Greg]
Uh, oh! 5.1.1 and 5.3.2 seem significantly overlapping...
20:58:06 [Greg]
5.1.1 Follow Accessibility Guidelines: Non-web-based user agent user interfaces follow user interface accessibility guidelines for the platform. (Level A)
20:58:08 [Greg]
5.3.2 Implement Accessibility Features of platform: Implement and cite in the conformance claim the accessibility features of content and platform technology specifications. Accessibility features are those that are either (Level A)...
20:59:22 [kford]
Updated 5.1.1.
20:59:24 [kford]
the platform on which a user agent is running has expected conventions around accessibility for areas such as keyboard behavior, support of an accessibility API user interface design, and other standards related to accessibility. The intent of this success criteria is to ensure that user agents comply with the basic accessibility requirements on where they are in use.
21:00:25 [Greg]
Here's our Intent for 5.3.2 Implement Accessibility Features of Platform:
21:00:27 [Greg]
If browsers and players don't seamlessly conform to platform accessibility features, then users can't easily take advantage of those features. Software that has versions for different platforms, may have to handle accessibility differently on different platforms or operating systems. In order to show that you have implemented the accessibility features of the platform correctly, these...
21:00:29 [Greg]
...features are identified in the conformance claim.
21:00:30 [Greg]
The user should be able to easily discover detailed information about the user agent's adherence to accessibility standards, including those related to content such as MSAA or JAA, and third-party standards such as ISO 9241-171, and should be able to do so without installing and testing the accessibility features.
21:04:53 [Greg]
We plan to delete 5.1, and use Kelly's new Intent paragraph for 5.3.2.
21:05:56 [Greg]
Topic: 5.3.1
21:06:45 [Greg]
5.3.1 Implement accessibility features of content specs: Implement and cite in the conformance claim the accessibility features of content specifications. Accessibility features are those that are either (Level A)
21:06:47 [Greg]
•identified as such in the specification or
21:06:49 [Greg]
•allow authors to satisfy a requirement of WCAG.
21:06:50 [Greg]
Intent of Success Criterion 5.3.1:
21:06:52 [Greg]
Accessibility features are included in content specs to provide features required by users with various disabilities. If those features are not fully supported by the user agent, users can't easily take advantage of those features. The user should be able to easily discover detailed information about the user agent’s adherence to accessibility standards, including those related to content...
21:06:53 [Greg]
...such as HTML and WAI-ARIA, and should be able to do so without installing and testing the accessibility features. This will allow them to make informed decisions about whether or not to they will be able to use, and therefore should install, a new product or version of that product.
21:06:55 [Greg]
New Example:
21:06:56 [Greg]
oJordy uses a web site which uses WAI-ARIA to identify the functions of custom controls. If he were to use a web browser that didn't support this aspect of WAI-ARIA and expose that information to assistive technology, the web site would be unusable with his web browser. Therefore Jordy needs to choose a web browser that he knows fully supports WAI-ARIA, and he determines this by reading...
21:07:01 [Greg]
...product documentation and UAAG conformance claims posted on the Web.
21:09:09 [jeanne]
https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20120113/
21:09:42 [jeanne]
topic: 2.3.x
21:10:24 [Wayne]
2.3.x Discover navigation and activation keystrokes (former 2.5.1): The user can discover direct navigation and activation keystrokes both programmatically and via perceivable labels. (Level A)
21:10:24 [Wayne]
Intent: This SC reduces the cognigative load for keyboard interface users. Navigation by keyboard interface may vary by platform, user agent and assistive technology. Taken as a whole this creates hardship for keyboard interface users. The user of the keyboard interface needs perceivable labels to learn and be and operate navigation effectively.
21:10:24 [Wayne]
To be written
21:13:22 [Zakim]
-Kim_Patch
21:13:38 [Zakim]
-kford
21:13:40 [Zakim]
-Wayne
21:13:44 [Zakim]
-Greg_Lowney
21:13:48 [Zakim]
-Jeanne
21:13:50 [Zakim]
WAI_UAWG()1:00PM has ended
21:13:52 [Zakim]
Attendees were +1.425.883.aaaa, kford, Greg_Lowney, Jeanne, Kim_Patch, Wayne
21:14:15 [jeanne]
rrsagent, make minutes
21:14:15 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/01/13-ua-minutes.html jeanne
21:31:24 [kford]
-rrsagent, make minutes
21:32:07 [kford]
rrsagent, make minutes
21:32:07 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/01/13-ua-minutes.html kford
21:34:29 [kford]
zakim, please part
21:34:29 [Zakim]
Zakim has left #ua
21:34:39 [kford]
rrsagent, make minutes
21:34:39 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/01/13-ua-minutes.html kford
21:34:46 [kford]
rrsagent, please part
21:34:46 [RRSAgent]
I see no action items