19:49:21 RRSAgent has joined #au 19:49:21 logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/01/09-au-irc 19:49:28 Zakim, this will be AUWG 19:49:28 ok, Jan; I see WAI_AUWG()3:00PM scheduled to start in 11 minutes 19:49:34 Meeting: WAI AU 19:50:00 Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-au/2012JanMar/0000.html 19:50:33 Chair: Jan Richards 19:54:10 Alessandro_Miele has joined #au 19:58:10 WAI_AUWG()3:00PM has now started 19:58:17 +[Microsoft] 19:58:31 +??P1 19:58:41 +[IPcaller] 19:58:56 zakim, ??P1 is really Jan 19:58:56 +Jan; got it 19:59:56 zakim, [IPcaller] is really Alessandro_Miele 19:59:56 +Alessandro_Miele; got it 20:00:35 +Jeanne 20:02:35 +[IPcaller] 20:03:11 zakim, [IPcaller] is really Andrew 20:03:12 +Andrew; got it 20:03:45 zakim, who's here? 20:03:45 On the phone I see [Microsoft], Jan, Alessandro_Miele, Jeanne, Andrew 20:03:46 On IRC I see Alessandro_Miele, RRSAgent, Zakim, Jan, trackbot 20:03:58 zakim, [Microsoft] is really Alex 20:03:58 +Alex; got it 20:06:17 -Jeanne 20:06:43 +Jeanne 20:07:04 Scribe:Jan 20:07:47 Topic: 1. Part A Conformance Applicability Note: Platform limitations 20:08:13 andrewronksley has joined #au 20:08:17 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-au/2012JanMar/0001.html 20:08:36 Topic: 2. A.2.2.2 Access to Rendered Text Properties: 20:09:03 Scribe: andrewronksley 20:09:46 http://www.w3.org/WAI/AU/2011/ED-IMPLEMENTING-ATAG20-20111222/#sc_a222 20:11:47 JR: The idea is that the text editor serves two purposes. It serves as a text editor but also it's a part of a workflow. 20:11:48 JR: ANy objections to the SC wording? 20:12:00 +[Microsoft] 20:12:43 zakim, [Microsoft] is really Cherie 20:12:43 +Cherie; got it 20:13:30 Resolution: All agree with "A.2.2.2 Access to Rendered Text Properties:@@If an editing-view renders any text formatting properties that authors can also edit using the editing-view, then the properties can be programmatically determined." 20:13:57 JR: The level is currently A. Wondering if this should be AA? 20:14:17 JR: It's not preventing authors from editing something. It's making something more effective. 20:15:15 Resolution: Change A.2.2.2 Access to Rendered Text Properties to AA 20:15:30 + +1.571.765.aaaa 20:15:31 Topic: 3. A.3.1.1 Keyboard Access (Minimum) 20:15:46 zakim, aaaa is really Greg 20:15:46 +Greg; got it 20:16:15 http://www.w3.org/WAI/AU/2011/ED-IMPLEMENTING-ATAG20-20111222/#sc_a311 20:17:28 JR: Some questions raised about devices that don't have a keyboard. We're not trying to imply that the device has to have a physical keyboard. We've added a note to clarify this. 20:18:44 JS: I would use the phrase "hardware" keyboard rather than "conventional" keyboard. 20:20:03 Not all software keyboards have tab and arrow keys 20:20:23 There's often alternative (third party) keyboards available that do have these keys though. 20:21:07 +Tim_Boland 20:21:51 Note 1: Keyboard interfaces are programmatic services provided by many platforms that allow operation in a device independent manner. This success criterion does not imply the presence of a hardware keyboard. 20:22:08 Resolution: All accept: Note 1: Keyboard interfaces are programmatic services provided by many platforms that allow operation in a device independent manner. This success criterion does not imply the presence of a hardware keyboard." 20:22:17 Tim has joined #au 20:22:47 Note 3: This success criterion does not forbid and should not discourage @@other input methods (e.g., mouse, touch) in addition to keyboard operation. 20:23:06 Resolution: All accept: "Note 3: This success criterion does not forbid and should not discourage other input methods (e.g., mouse, touch) in addition to keyboard operation." 20:23:17 http://www.w3.org/WAI/AU/2011/ED-IMPLEMENTING-ATAG20-20111222/#sc_a311-i 20:23:43 Note 1 clarifies that the success criterion does not require a hardware keyboard to be present. Many mobile platforms lack hardware keyboards, but nonetheless provide "keyboard interfaces". 20:23:58 Resolution: All accept "Note 1 clarifies that the success criterion does not require a hardware keyboard to be present. Many mobile platforms lack hardware keyboards, but nonetheless provide "keyboard interfaces"." 20:24:30 Topic: 4. A.3.1.5 Customize Keyboard Access 20:25:02 http://www.w3.org/WAI/AU/2011/ED-IMPLEMENTING-ATAG20-20111222/#sc_a315-i 20:26:43 Resolution: All accept "@@on platforms that support keyboard commands" 20:26:58 Topic: 5. A.3.1.6 Present Keyboard Commands 20:27:11 http://www.w3.org/WAI/AU/2011/ED-IMPLEMENTING-ATAG20-20111222/#sc_a316-i 20:27:50 Resolution: All accept "@@on platforms that support keyboard commands " for A.3.1.6 20:28:03 Topic: 6. A.4.2.1 Document Accessibility Features 20:28:22 http://www.w3.org/WAI/AU/2011/ED-IMPLEMENTING-ATAG20-20111222/#sc_a421 20:29:59 What if the feature requires no action on the user's part? 20:30:49 Things like programatically determined. Users don't get involved with that stuff. 20:31:29 A.4.2.1 Document Accessibility Features: All features of the authoring tool that are used direclty by the author and that are used to meet Part A of ATAG 2.0 (e.g., keyboard shortcuts, text search) are documented. 20:31:52 Jeanne: A.4.2.1 Document Accessibility Features: All features of the authoring tool that require author interaction and that are used to meet Part A of ATAG 2.0 (e.g., keyboard shortcuts, text search) are documented. 20:32:52 JR: There's things that are so trivial that they probably don't need documenting 20:33:12 JR: e.g. a search box 20:35:01 GS: Section 508 does have a requirement for documentation of accessibility features 20:35:10 GS: How do you count features though 20:35:22 +[IPcaller] 20:35:30 Alex: once you start counting you realise it's practically impossible 20:35:49 jeanne has joined #au 20:37:03 GS: Section 508 doesn't comment on the quality of the documentation, just that it's available. 20:37:37 JR: I think what we're getting at is some accessibility features will be hard to use without documentation, e.g. keyboard shortcuts. 20:38:10 GS: The other issue that comes into play is platform or OS conventions. 20:38:25 GS: There's an assumption that people will know a certain amount. 20:38:40 GS: e.g. on Windows CTRL+O for open etc. 20:39:04 Alex: Normally the platform should provide documentation relating to things such as this. 20:40:47 GS: Getting back to the notion of trivial, we assume users know the conventions for their platform. That being said, users still ask us to document these kinds of things. 20:41:08 JR: Maybe what trivial means in this case is things that are common to a platform. 20:42:20 Action JR: To propose something for A.4.2.1 that includes user interactive features and a note on platform conventions being documented elesewhere 20:42:21 Created ACTION-370 - Propose something for A.4.2.1 that includes user interactive features and a note on platform conventions being documented elesewhere [on Jan Richards - due 2012-01-16]. 20:42:56 Topic: 7. B.3.1.1 Checking Assistance (WCAG) 20:43:21 http://www.w3.org/WAI/AU/2011/ED-IMPLEMENTING-ATAG20-20111222/#sc_b311 20:44:51 Resoltuion: All accept "@@in such a way" in B.3.1.1 20:44:58 Resolution: All accept "@@in such a way" in B.3.1.1 20:45:13 Topic: 8. (Tentative) Conformance Requirements 20:45:26 http://www.w3.org/WAI/AU/2011/ED-IMPLEMENTING-ATAG20-20111222/#conf-req 20:47:27 Everyone will take an action to look at the (tentative) confromance requirements http://www.w3.org/WAI/AU/2011/ED-IMPLEMENTING-ATAG20-20111222/#conf-req 20:47:37 9. (Tentative) Table of Accessibility Information types in the Implementing doc 20:47:44 Topic: 9. (Tentative) Table of Accessibility Information types in the Implementing doc 20:47:57 http://www.w3.org/WAI/AU/2011/ED-IMPLEMENTING-ATAG20-20111222/#prompting-types 20:52:34 Resolution: To remove the tentative marking on the Table of Accessibility Information types (i.e. to keep the table) 20:52:40 trackbot has joined #au 20:52:47 Topic: 10. Note on Term " accessibility information (WCAG)" 20:53:09 http://www.w3.org/WAI/AU/2011/ED-IMPLEMENTING-ATAG20-20111222/#def-Accessibility-Information 20:54:06 remove ")" at end of accessibility info 20:55:09 Resolution: Alll accept "Note: For the purposes of ATAG 2.0, only programmatically determinable information qualifies. For additional examples, see Appendix A of the Implementing ATAG 2.0 document." 20:55:28 Topic: 12. Term "keyboard interface" 20:55:40 http://www.w3.org/WAI/AU/2011/ED-IMPLEMENTING-ATAG20-20111222/#def-Keyboard-Interface 20:56:42 A programmatic interface used by software to obtain keystroke input. A keyboard interface can allow keystroke input even if particular devices do not contain a hardware keyboard (e.g., a touchscreen-controlled device can have a keyboard interface built into its operating system to support onscreen keyboards as well as external keyboards that may be connected). 20:56:43 Note: Keyboard-operated mouse emulators, such as MouseKeys, do not qualify as operation through a keyboard interface because these emulators use pointing device interfaces, not keyboard interfaces. 20:57:04 Keyboard interfaces are programmatic services provided by many platforms that allow operation in a device independent manner. This success criterion does not imply the presence of a conventional keyboard. 20:57:56 Keyboard interfaces are programmatic services provided by many platforms that allow operation in a device independent manner. A keyboard interface can allow keystroke input even if particular devices do not contain a hardware keyboard (e.g., a touchscreen-controlled device can have a keyboard interface built into its operating system to support onscreen keyboards as well as external... 20:57:57 ...keyboards that may be connected).Note: Keyboard-operated mouse emulators, such as MouseKeys, do not qualify as operation through a keyboard interface because these emulators use pointing device interfaces, not keyboard interfaces. 20:58:51 Resolution: All accept "Keyboard interfaces are programmatic services provided by many platforms that allow operation in a device independent manner. A keyboard interface can allow keystroke input even if particular devices do not contain a hardware keyboard (e.g., a touchscreen-controlled device can have a keyboard interface built into its operating system to support onscreen keyboards as... 20:58:52 ...well as external keyboards that may be connected).Note: Keyboard-operated mouse emulators, such as MouseKeys, do not qualify as operation through a keyboard interface because these emulators use pointing device interfaces, not keyboard interfaces. 20:59:20 -Tim_Boland 20:59:22 -Cherie 20:59:24 -Alex 20:59:25 -Greg 20:59:26 -[IPcaller] 20:59:28 -Andrew 20:59:38 -Alessandro_Miele 21:00:13 andrewronksley has left #au 21:00:25 http://www.w3.org/WAI/AU/2012/ATAG20tests/ 21:02:07 http://www.w3.org/WAI/AU/2011/ED-ATAG20-20111222/MASTER-20111221 21:07:59 RRSAgent, make minutes 21:07:59 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/01/09-au-minutes.html Jan 21:08:06 RRSAgent, set logs public 21:08:11 Zakim, bye 21:08:12 leaving. As of this point the attendees were Jan, Alessandro_Miele, Jeanne, Andrew, Alex, Cherie, +1.571.765.aaaa, Greg, Tim_Boland, [IPcaller] 21:08:12 Zakim has left #au 21:08:17 RRSAgent, bye 21:08:17 I see 1 open action item saved in http://www.w3.org/2012/01/09-au-actions.rdf : 21:08:17 ACTION: JR to To propose something for A.4.2.1 that includes user interactive features and a note on platform conventions being documented elesewhere [1] 21:08:17 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/01/09-au-irc#T20-42-20