IRC log of au on 2012-01-09

Timestamps are in UTC.

19:49:21 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #au
19:49:21 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/01/09-au-irc
19:49:28 [Jan]
Zakim, this will be AUWG
19:49:28 [Zakim]
ok, Jan; I see WAI_AUWG()3:00PM scheduled to start in 11 minutes
19:49:34 [Jan]
Meeting: WAI AU
19:50:00 [Jan]
Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-au/2012JanMar/0000.html
19:50:33 [Jan]
Chair: Jan Richards
19:54:10 [Alessandro_Miele]
Alessandro_Miele has joined #au
19:58:10 [Zakim]
WAI_AUWG()3:00PM has now started
19:58:17 [Zakim]
+[Microsoft]
19:58:31 [Zakim]
+??P1
19:58:41 [Zakim]
+[IPcaller]
19:58:56 [Jan]
zakim, ??P1 is really Jan
19:58:56 [Zakim]
+Jan; got it
19:59:56 [Jan]
zakim, [IPcaller] is really Alessandro_Miele
19:59:56 [Zakim]
+Alessandro_Miele; got it
20:00:35 [Zakim]
+Jeanne
20:02:35 [Zakim]
+[IPcaller]
20:03:11 [Jan]
zakim, [IPcaller] is really Andrew
20:03:12 [Zakim]
+Andrew; got it
20:03:45 [Jan]
zakim, who's here?
20:03:45 [Zakim]
On the phone I see [Microsoft], Jan, Alessandro_Miele, Jeanne, Andrew
20:03:46 [Zakim]
On IRC I see Alessandro_Miele, RRSAgent, Zakim, Jan, trackbot
20:03:58 [Jan]
zakim, [Microsoft] is really Alex
20:03:58 [Zakim]
+Alex; got it
20:06:17 [Zakim]
-Jeanne
20:06:43 [Zakim]
+Jeanne
20:07:04 [Jan]
Scribe:Jan
20:07:47 [Jan]
Topic: 1. Part A Conformance Applicability Note: Platform limitations
20:08:13 [andrewronksley]
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20:08:17 [Jan]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-au/2012JanMar/0001.html
20:08:36 [Jan]
Topic: 2. A.2.2.2 Access to Rendered Text Properties:
20:09:03 [Jan]
Scribe: andrewronksley
20:09:46 [Jan]
http://www.w3.org/WAI/AU/2011/ED-IMPLEMENTING-ATAG20-20111222/#sc_a222
20:11:47 [andrewronksley]
JR: The idea is that the text editor serves two purposes. It serves as a text editor but also it's a part of a workflow.
20:11:48 [Jan]
JR: ANy objections to the SC wording?
20:12:00 [Zakim]
+[Microsoft]
20:12:43 [Jan]
zakim, [Microsoft] is really Cherie
20:12:43 [Zakim]
+Cherie; got it
20:13:30 [Jan]
Resolution: All agree with "A.2.2.2 Access to Rendered Text Properties:@@If an editing-view renders any text formatting properties that authors can also edit using the editing-view, then the properties can be programmatically determined."
20:13:57 [andrewronksley]
JR: The level is currently A. Wondering if this should be AA?
20:14:17 [andrewronksley]
JR: It's not preventing authors from editing something. It's making something more effective.
20:15:15 [Jan]
Resolution: Change A.2.2.2 Access to Rendered Text Properties to AA
20:15:30 [Zakim]
+ +1.571.765.aaaa
20:15:31 [Jan]
Topic: 3. A.3.1.1 Keyboard Access (Minimum)
20:15:46 [Jan]
zakim, aaaa is really Greg
20:15:46 [Zakim]
+Greg; got it
20:16:15 [Jan]
http://www.w3.org/WAI/AU/2011/ED-IMPLEMENTING-ATAG20-20111222/#sc_a311
20:17:28 [andrewronksley]
JR: Some questions raised about devices that don't have a keyboard. We're not trying to imply that the device has to have a physical keyboard. We've added a note to clarify this.
20:18:44 [andrewronksley]
JS: I would use the phrase "hardware" keyboard rather than "conventional" keyboard.
20:20:03 [andrewronksley]
Not all software keyboards have tab and arrow keys
20:20:23 [andrewronksley]
There's often alternative (third party) keyboards available that do have these keys though.
20:21:07 [Zakim]
+Tim_Boland
20:21:51 [Jan]
Note 1: Keyboard interfaces are programmatic services provided by many platforms that allow operation in a device independent manner. This success criterion does not imply the presence of a hardware keyboard.
20:22:08 [Jan]
Resolution: All accept: Note 1: Keyboard interfaces are programmatic services provided by many platforms that allow operation in a device independent manner. This success criterion does not imply the presence of a hardware keyboard."
20:22:17 [Tim]
Tim has joined #au
20:22:47 [Jan]
Note 3: This success criterion does not forbid and should not discourage @@other input methods (e.g., mouse, touch) in addition to keyboard operation.
20:23:06 [Jan]
Resolution: All accept: "Note 3: This success criterion does not forbid and should not discourage other input methods (e.g., mouse, touch) in addition to keyboard operation."
20:23:17 [Jan]
http://www.w3.org/WAI/AU/2011/ED-IMPLEMENTING-ATAG20-20111222/#sc_a311-i
20:23:43 [Jan]
Note 1 clarifies that the success criterion does not require a hardware keyboard to be present. Many mobile platforms lack hardware keyboards, but nonetheless provide "keyboard interfaces".
20:23:58 [Jan]
Resolution: All accept "Note 1 clarifies that the success criterion does not require a hardware keyboard to be present. Many mobile platforms lack hardware keyboards, but nonetheless provide "keyboard interfaces"."
20:24:30 [Jan]
Topic: 4. A.3.1.5 Customize Keyboard Access
20:25:02 [Jan]
http://www.w3.org/WAI/AU/2011/ED-IMPLEMENTING-ATAG20-20111222/#sc_a315-i
20:26:43 [Jan]
Resolution: All accept "@@on platforms that support keyboard commands"
20:26:58 [Jan]
Topic: 5. A.3.1.6 Present Keyboard Commands
20:27:11 [Jan]
http://www.w3.org/WAI/AU/2011/ED-IMPLEMENTING-ATAG20-20111222/#sc_a316-i
20:27:50 [Jan]
Resolution: All accept "@@on platforms that support keyboard commands " for A.3.1.6
20:28:03 [Jan]
Topic: 6. A.4.2.1 Document Accessibility Features
20:28:22 [Jan]
http://www.w3.org/WAI/AU/2011/ED-IMPLEMENTING-ATAG20-20111222/#sc_a421
20:29:59 [andrewronksley]
What if the feature requires no action on the user's part?
20:30:49 [andrewronksley]
Things like programatically determined. Users don't get involved with that stuff.
20:31:29 [Jan]
A.4.2.1 Document Accessibility Features: All features of the authoring tool that are used direclty by the author and that are used to meet Part A of ATAG 2.0 (e.g., keyboard shortcuts, text search) are documented.
20:31:52 [Jan]
Jeanne: A.4.2.1 Document Accessibility Features: All features of the authoring tool that require author interaction and that are used to meet Part A of ATAG 2.0 (e.g., keyboard shortcuts, text search) are documented.
20:32:52 [andrewronksley]
JR: There's things that are so trivial that they probably don't need documenting
20:33:12 [andrewronksley]
JR: e.g. a search box
20:35:01 [andrewronksley]
GS: Section 508 does have a requirement for documentation of accessibility features
20:35:10 [andrewronksley]
GS: How do you count features though
20:35:22 [Zakim]
+[IPcaller]
20:35:30 [andrewronksley]
Alex: once you start counting you realise it's practically impossible
20:35:49 [jeanne]
jeanne has joined #au
20:37:03 [andrewronksley]
GS: Section 508 doesn't comment on the quality of the documentation, just that it's available.
20:37:37 [andrewronksley]
JR: I think what we're getting at is some accessibility features will be hard to use without documentation, e.g. keyboard shortcuts.
20:38:10 [andrewronksley]
GS: The other issue that comes into play is platform or OS conventions.
20:38:25 [andrewronksley]
GS: There's an assumption that people will know a certain amount.
20:38:40 [andrewronksley]
GS: e.g. on Windows CTRL+O for open etc.
20:39:04 [andrewronksley]
Alex: Normally the platform should provide documentation relating to things such as this.
20:40:47 [andrewronksley]
GS: Getting back to the notion of trivial, we assume users know the conventions for their platform. That being said, users still ask us to document these kinds of things.
20:41:08 [andrewronksley]
JR: Maybe what trivial means in this case is things that are common to a platform.
20:42:20 [Jan]
Action JR: To propose something for A.4.2.1 that includes user interactive features and a note on platform conventions being documented elesewhere
20:42:21 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-370 - Propose something for A.4.2.1 that includes user interactive features and a note on platform conventions being documented elesewhere [on Jan Richards - due 2012-01-16].
20:42:56 [Jan]
Topic: 7. B.3.1.1 Checking Assistance (WCAG)
20:43:21 [Jan]
http://www.w3.org/WAI/AU/2011/ED-IMPLEMENTING-ATAG20-20111222/#sc_b311
20:44:51 [Jan]
Resoltuion: All accept "@@in such a way" in B.3.1.1
20:44:58 [Jan]
Resolution: All accept "@@in such a way" in B.3.1.1
20:45:13 [Jan]
Topic: 8. (Tentative) Conformance Requirements
20:45:26 [Jan]
http://www.w3.org/WAI/AU/2011/ED-IMPLEMENTING-ATAG20-20111222/#conf-req
20:47:27 [Jan]
Everyone will take an action to look at the (tentative) confromance requirements http://www.w3.org/WAI/AU/2011/ED-IMPLEMENTING-ATAG20-20111222/#conf-req
20:47:37 [Jan]
9. (Tentative) Table of Accessibility Information types in the Implementing doc
20:47:44 [Jan]
Topic: 9. (Tentative) Table of Accessibility Information types in the Implementing doc
20:47:57 [Jan]
http://www.w3.org/WAI/AU/2011/ED-IMPLEMENTING-ATAG20-20111222/#prompting-types
20:52:34 [Jan]
Resolution: To remove the tentative marking on the Table of Accessibility Information types (i.e. to keep the table)
20:52:40 [trackbot]
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20:52:47 [Jan]
Topic: 10. Note on Term " accessibility information (WCAG)"
20:53:09 [Jan]
http://www.w3.org/WAI/AU/2011/ED-IMPLEMENTING-ATAG20-20111222/#def-Accessibility-Information
20:54:06 [Jan]
remove ")" at end of accessibility info
20:55:09 [Jan]
Resolution: Alll accept "Note: For the purposes of ATAG 2.0, only programmatically determinable information qualifies. For additional examples, see Appendix A of the Implementing ATAG 2.0 document."
20:55:28 [Jan]
Topic: 12. Term "keyboard interface"
20:55:40 [Jan]
http://www.w3.org/WAI/AU/2011/ED-IMPLEMENTING-ATAG20-20111222/#def-Keyboard-Interface
20:56:42 [Jan]
A programmatic interface used by software to obtain keystroke input. A keyboard interface can allow keystroke input even if particular devices do not contain a hardware keyboard (e.g., a touchscreen-controlled device can have a keyboard interface built into its operating system to support onscreen keyboards as well as external keyboards that may be connected).
20:56:43 [Jan]
Note: Keyboard-operated mouse emulators, such as MouseKeys, do not qualify as operation through a keyboard interface because these emulators use pointing device interfaces, not keyboard interfaces.
20:57:04 [Jan]
Keyboard interfaces are programmatic services provided by many platforms that allow operation in a device independent manner. This success criterion does not imply the presence of a conventional keyboard.
20:57:56 [Jan]
Keyboard interfaces are programmatic services provided by many platforms that allow operation in a device independent manner. A keyboard interface can allow keystroke input even if particular devices do not contain a hardware keyboard (e.g., a touchscreen-controlled device can have a keyboard interface built into its operating system to support onscreen keyboards as well as external...
20:57:57 [Jan]
...keyboards that may be connected).Note: Keyboard-operated mouse emulators, such as MouseKeys, do not qualify as operation through a keyboard interface because these emulators use pointing device interfaces, not keyboard interfaces.
20:58:51 [Jan]
Resolution: All accept "Keyboard interfaces are programmatic services provided by many platforms that allow operation in a device independent manner. A keyboard interface can allow keystroke input even if particular devices do not contain a hardware keyboard (e.g., a touchscreen-controlled device can have a keyboard interface built into its operating system to support onscreen keyboards as...
20:58:52 [Jan]
...well as external keyboards that may be connected).Note: Keyboard-operated mouse emulators, such as MouseKeys, do not qualify as operation through a keyboard interface because these emulators use pointing device interfaces, not keyboard interfaces.
20:59:20 [Zakim]
-Tim_Boland
20:59:22 [Zakim]
-Cherie
20:59:24 [Zakim]
-Alex
20:59:25 [Zakim]
-Greg
20:59:26 [Zakim]
-[IPcaller]
20:59:28 [Zakim]
-Andrew
20:59:38 [Zakim]
-Alessandro_Miele
21:00:13 [andrewronksley]
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21:00:25 [jeanne]
http://www.w3.org/WAI/AU/2012/ATAG20tests/
21:02:07 [jeanne]
http://www.w3.org/WAI/AU/2011/ED-ATAG20-20111222/MASTER-20111221
21:07:59 [Jan]
RRSAgent, make minutes
21:07:59 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/01/09-au-minutes.html Jan
21:08:06 [Jan]
RRSAgent, set logs public
21:08:11 [Jan]
Zakim, bye
21:08:12 [Zakim]
leaving. As of this point the attendees were Jan, Alessandro_Miele, Jeanne, Andrew, Alex, Cherie, +1.571.765.aaaa, Greg, Tim_Boland, [IPcaller]
21:08:12 [Zakim]
Zakim has left #au
21:08:17 [Jan]
RRSAgent, bye
21:08:17 [RRSAgent]
I see 1 open action item saved in http://www.w3.org/2012/01/09-au-actions.rdf :
21:08:17 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: JR to To propose something for A.4.2.1 that includes user interactive features and a note on platform conventions being documented elesewhere [1]
21:08:17 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/01/09-au-irc#T20-42-20