Chatlog 2012-06-27

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15:01:58 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #rdf-wg
15:01:58 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/06/27-rdf-wg-irc
15:02:00 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
15:02:00 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #rdf-wg
15:02:02 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 73394
15:02:02 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see SW_RDFWG()11:00AM scheduled to start 2 minutes ago
15:02:03 <trackbot> Meeting: RDF Working Group Teleconference
15:02:03 <trackbot> Date: 27 June 2012
15:02:09 <MacTed> Zakim, this is 73394
15:02:09 <Zakim> ok, MacTed; that matches SW_RDFWG()11:00AM
15:02:14 <MacTed> Zakim, who's here?
15:02:16 <Zakim> On the phone I see +31.20.598.aaaa, [IBM], OpenLink_Software, AlexHall, ??P18
15:02:23 <MacTed> Zakim, OpenLink_Software is temporarily me
15:02:24 <Zakim> On IRC I see RRSAgent, AlexHall, AZ, pfps, swh, gavinc, Guus, MacTed, davidwood, LeeF, cygri, danbri, yvesr, manu1, manu, NickH, gkellogg, sandro, trackbot, ericP
15:02:26 <MacTed> Zakim, mute me
15:02:27 <AZ> zakim, ??P18 is me
15:02:27 <Zakim> +??P17
15:02:27 <yvesr> Zakim, ??P18 is me
15:02:28 <Guus> zakim, 31.20 is me
15:02:31 <Zakim> +MacTed; got it
15:02:35 <Zakim> MacTed should now be muted
15:02:37 <Zakim> +AZ; got it
15:02:42 <Zakim> I already had ??P18 as AZ, yvesr
15:02:42 <yvesr> Zakim, who is on the phone?
15:02:43 <Zakim> sorry, Guus, I do not recognize a party named '31.20'
15:02:52 <MacTed> Zakim, aaaa is Guus
15:02:53 <Zakim> On the phone I see +31.20.598.aaaa, [IBM], MacTed (muted), AlexHall, AZ, ??P17
15:02:56 <Guus> zakim, +31.20 is me
15:02:57 <Zakim> +sandro
15:02:58 <yvesr> Zakim, ??P17 is me
15:02:59 <Zakim> +??P12
15:03:04 <Zakim> +Guus; got it
15:03:07 <Zakim> sorry, Guus, I do not recognize a party named '+31.20'
15:03:09 <Zakim> +yvesr; got it
15:03:12 <gkellogg> zakim, ??P12 is me
15:03:17 <Zakim> +gkellogg; got it
15:03:21 <Zakim> +mhausenblas
15:03:22 <cygri> zakim, mhausenblas is temporarily me
15:03:25 <Zakim> +cygri; got it
15:03:27 <Zakim> +bhyland
15:03:32 <MacTed> Zakim, who's here?
15:03:32 <Zakim> On the phone I see Guus, [IBM], MacTed (muted), AlexHall, AZ, yvesr, sandro, gkellogg, cygri, bhyland
15:03:34 <davidwood> Zakim, bhyland is me
15:03:35 <Zakim> On IRC I see RRSAgent, AlexHall, AZ, pfps, swh, gavinc, Guus, MacTed, davidwood, LeeF, cygri, danbri, yvesr, manu1, manu, NickH, gkellogg, sandro, trackbot, ericP
15:03:38 <Zakim> +davidwood; got it
15:03:58 <Zakim> +??P28
15:04:01 <manu1> zakim, I am ??P28
15:04:01 <Zakim> +manu1; got it
15:05:54 <zwu2> zwu2 has joined #rdf-wg
15:05:59 <zwu2> zakim, code?
15:05:59 <Zakim> the conference code is 73394 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), zwu2
15:06:11 <Zakim> +gavinc
15:06:47 <Zakim> +zwu2
15:06:56 <zwu2> zakim, mute me
15:06:56 <Zakim> zwu2 should now be muted
15:07:42 <MacTed> Zakim, unmute me
15:07:42 <Zakim> MacTed should no longer be muted
15:07:53 <manu1> scribenick: manu1
15:07:57 <Zakim> +??P33
15:08:09 <ericP> Zakim, ??P33 is me
15:08:09 <Zakim> +ericP; got it
15:08:25 <manu1> Topic: Minutes from Last week
15:08:35 <manu1> Guus: Propose to accept minutes from last week.
15:08:40 <manu1> No objections.
15:08:49 <pfps> Minutes look fine.
15:09:42 <manu1> RESOLVED: Accept minutes from June 20th 2012 telecon.
15:09:52 <manu1> Topic: Action Items
15:10:02 <manu1> Guus: One pending review from Andy - predicate-object list
15:10:07 <Zakim> +Souri
15:10:17 <Souri> Souri has joined #rdf-wg
15:10:33 <manu1> Ericp: I thought we were going to allow an arbitrary number of semicolons... Andy's contribution only allows up to one semicolon.
15:10:37 <manu1> Guus: The action has been done.
15:11:02 <manu1> Guus: Any other actions that should be closed that are currently open? 10 actions open.
15:11:12 <manu1> Guus: Let's continue.
15:11:16 <manu1> Topic: Next Meeting
15:11:31 <manu1> Guus: Next telecon is July 11th 2012... the rest of the telecons are in the Agenda
15:11:43 <manu1> Guus: From 5 september on, we continue w/ weekly schedule.
15:12:11 <manu1> Guus: The next face-to-face - proposal is to do it at TPAC - October 29th - November 3rd 2012 in Lyon, France. The link to TPAC is in the Agenda.
15:12:18 <manu1> Agenda: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/Meetings:Telecon2012.06.27
15:12:54 <manu1> Guus: The face-to-face will be used to coordinate on the documents and other groups, like the Linked Data Group...
15:12:56 <Zakim> +LeeF
15:13:26 <pchampin> pchampin has joined #rdf-wg
15:13:49 <manu1> Guus: There are only rooms available on the Thursday or Friday - limited options for us. Proposal is to meet on the Thursday/Friday. ISWC is 11th-15th of November, that may be a possibility?
15:14:13 <manu1> Sandro: That's in Boston, Cambridge - ISWC is, that is.
15:14:18 <AZ> +1 to TPAC
15:14:20 <manu1> Guus: Sounds like folks are okay w/ meeting at TPAC.
15:14:24 <Zakim> +??P2
15:14:34 <pchampin> zakim, ??P2 is me
15:14:34 <Zakim> +pchampin; got it
15:14:36 <sandro> +1 TPAC
15:14:39 <cygri> +0.5 TPAC
15:14:43 <gavinc> -0 TPAC
15:14:44 <sandro> s/Sandro/DavidWood/
15:14:49 <pchampin> +1 TPAC
15:14:50 <ericP> +1
15:14:51 <manu1> s/Sounds like folks are okay w/ meeting at TPAC/Let's see if people are okay with TPAC/
15:14:53 <gkellogg> +0 TPAC
15:14:54 <davidwood> +1
15:14:55 <zwu2> -0 TPAC
15:14:58 <LeeF> 0
15:15:05 <MacTed> +0 (won't be there, won't block)
15:15:06 <LeeF> (I won't make it to TPAC)
15:15:10 <Souri> Are we planning to have a video conference for folks near Boston?
15:15:15 <pfps> I won't be there - conflict with Dagstuhl ontology seminar.
15:15:20 <yvesr> +1
15:15:29 <Souri> +0
15:15:45 <manu1> Guus: Preliminary decision could be made - see who says they will be there based on that.
15:15:47 <sandro> we can probably webcam but no fancy vid conf, and probably no room at MIT.
15:16:12 <manu1> Sandro: Don't know if TPAC has the bandwidth to do video
15:16:15 <gavinc> -1 if TPAC does not have video
15:16:18 <manu1> Guus: It may be voice-only
15:16:26 <LeeF> In the past, TPAC has not been able to do video conf
15:16:45 <manu1> Gavin: Everyone is welcome to meet in my living room.
15:17:02 <manu1> s/Everyone is welcome to meet in my living room/Would prefer video/
15:17:12 <zwu2> Gavin, I am happy to join you in your home office
15:17:15 <zwu2> :)
15:17:29 <manu1> Guus: We need to do a preliminary reservation at TPAC...
15:17:36 <manu1> Sandro: Want other options on the table? 
15:17:44 <Zakim> -AZ
15:17:51 <manu1> Guus: Boston ISWC might work, but don't know how many folks from here would attend.
15:17:52 <pchampin> I will try to see what is possible in Lyon in terms if video conference
15:18:05 <manu1> Sandro: We could do a split meeting - Boston, ISWC and somewhere else with good video conferencing.
15:18:32 <manu1> EricP: HP could do it - but they don't play that game anymore.
15:18:34 <LeeF> Oxford, yes
15:18:50 <yvesr> we do have proper video conferencing facilities at the BBC, but the rooms are way too small
15:19:21 <manu1> cygri: We used to have a polycom system... but it broke and we decided not to replace it because it was used very rarely (ed: like all Polycom systems!)
15:20:56 <manu1> sandro: Weird to have no semantic web representation at TPAC - this has been dead-quiet since ISWC conflicted with it... a general issue - not taking advantage of a good opportunity. Linked Data group is planning to meet at ISWC?
15:21:01 <manu1> EricP: Yes, they are.
15:21:14 <manu1> Guus: Provenance at ISWC too?
15:21:21 <manu1> Sandro: Yes, entirely an academic group.
15:21:26 <Zakim> -zwu2
15:21:36 <sandro> s/entirely/almost entirely/
15:21:43 <manu1> Guus: Let's setup a poll for the two options.
15:22:16 <manu1> EricP: Odds are pretty good that we'll end up meeting at TPAC.
15:22:37 <Zakim> +zwu2
15:24:11 <manu1> Guus: I'll setup a poll - we'll decide on July 11th based on the information we have.
15:24:30 <pfps> Go for it!
15:24:31 <manu1> Guus: Two options - TPAC vs. ISWC Cage Match.
15:24:49 <manu1> ACTION: Guus to setup a poll for the next RDF WG F2F.
15:24:49 <trackbot> Created ACTION-176 - Setup a poll for the next RDF WG F2F. [on Guus Schreiber - due 2012-07-04].
15:25:11 <manu1> Topic: TURTLE Last Call
15:25:28 <manu1> Guus: There was a message from Gavin - there is a new ED
15:25:31 <MacTed> q+
15:25:34 <Zakim> +LeeF.a
15:25:44 <manu1> http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/rdf/raw-file/default/rdf-turtle/index.html
15:25:48 <manu1> Guus: Is this ready to go?
15:25:56 <Zakim> -LeeF
15:26:02 <manu1> Gavin: Yes, ready to go - minor editorial issues including parenthesis.
15:26:18 <manu1> EricP: If we want a moment to publish i- s- k- f- ha-
15:26:38 <manu1> EricP: We should list the changes that we intend to make before publishing.
15:26:47 <manu1> Guus: In the Agenda, there is a proposal to publish.
15:26:51 <cygri> q+ to say would like to have the "Spïdermann"@de example changed
15:26:57 <gavinc> 1. Fix remaining undetected broken links 2. Fix one missing set of ()s
15:27:34 <manu1> ack MacTed
15:27:48 <manu1> MacTed: Small thing - based on Ivan's feedback - a plea for Oxford commas.
15:27:58 <pfps> +1, for, Oxford, commas!
15:28:03 <sandro> +1 oxford commas.    (eats, shoots, and leaves)
15:28:56 <manu1> gavinc: Totally agreed, I'll make the change.
15:29:10 <Guus> ack cygri
15:29:10 <Zakim> cygri, you wanted to say would like to have the "Spïdermann"@de example changed
15:29:43 <cygri> "Человек-паук"@ru
15:29:47 <manu1> cygri: To show multi-lingual features, the German rendition of the word is wrong - the letters don't exist in German...
15:30:19 <manu1> cygri: Maybe we should use something different like Spiderman in Cyrillic?
15:30:34 <manu1> Guus: Any more commas?
15:30:38 <manu1> s/commas/comments/
15:31:26 <manu1> PROPOSAL: Publish the current version of the TURTLE Editors Draft as a Last Call Working Draft: http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/rdf/raw-file/default/rdf-turtle/index.html
15:31:31 <davidwood> +1
15:31:33 <MacTed> +1
15:31:33 <yvesr> +1
15:31:33 <manu1> +1
15:31:34 <LeeF> +1
15:31:35 <cygri> +1
15:31:36 <gkellogg> +1
15:31:37 <pfps> +1
15:31:39 <AlexHall> +1
15:31:40 <davidwood> AndyS voted +1 via email
15:31:41 <gavinc> +1
15:31:46 <zwu2> +1
15:31:49 <ericP> +1
15:31:49 <Souri> +1
15:32:17 <manu1> RESOLVED: Publish the current version of the TURTLE Editors Draft as a Last Call Working Draft: http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/rdf/raw-file/default/rdf-turtle/index.html
15:32:35 <gavinc> Now with Russian! http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/rdf/raw-file/default/rdf-turtle/index.html#sec-intro
15:32:43 <manu1> Round of applause and woos! for the editors.
15:32:54 <Zakim> -cygri
15:33:13 <Zakim> +??P32
15:33:18 <cygri> zakim, ??P32 is me
15:33:18 <Zakim> +cygri; got it
15:33:18 <manu1> Guus: The editor's should prepare a version which we can request publication for - last editorial issues, etc.
15:33:39 <manu1> Gavin: I'll make those changes now.
15:34:22 <manu1> Gavin: Language but no change to the grammar on @prefix. Admissing parenthesis with one of the string productions.
15:34:37 <ericP> "A"@base and "A"@prefix are UDF
15:34:39 <manu1> EricP: Yes, one of the string productions has an issue with an OR... 
15:34:46 <manu1> Gavin: We need some more explanatory text.
15:34:58 <manu1> EricP: IRI ref term constructor is wonky, will need to fix...
15:35:02 <manu1> Gavin: I think I fixed that.
15:35:05 <ericP> http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/rdf/raw-file/default/rdf-turtle/index.html#turtle-literals
15:35:15 <manu1> EricP: TURTLE literals ...
15:35:30 <manu1> Gavin: Slightly larger change - not happy with the language you wrote?
15:35:39 <manu1> EricP: It mis-leads a little bit, it may be fine.
15:36:04 <manu1> Gavin: It goes through how Literals work w/ quotation marks... and then states that you can replace it with single quotes, double quotes, triple quotes.
15:36:14 <manu1> EricP: Well, I have some other text that may be more clear.
15:36:19 <manu1> Gavin: That sounds fine...
15:37:02 <ericP> s/are UDF/undefined behavior/
15:37:03 <manu1> Guus: David will write a blog item on this... we need to notify relevant mailing lists on this publication.
15:37:22 <Zakim> -zwu2
15:37:38 <gavinc> +q to ask about LC comment window
15:37:40 <Zakim> -cygri
15:37:46 <Zakim> +mhausenblas
15:37:51 <manu1> David: MInutes need to be published and final version needs to be published.
15:37:56 <cygri> zakim, mhausenblas is temporarily me
15:37:57 <Zakim> +cygri; got it
15:38:04 <gavinc> I made up The Last Call period ends 15 September 2012
15:38:09 <Zakim> +zwu2
15:38:11 <manu1> Guus: I propose we have the regular period of 6 weeks for the Last Call period.
15:38:25 <manu1> Guus: That's 2.5 months... 
15:38:43 <manu1> EricP: Are we in a rush?
15:39:34 <manu1> Discussion about "maximizing the quality of incoming comments".
15:40:01 <manu1> Guus: 15th of september, any objections from the WG?
15:40:05 <MacTed> +1 Sept 15
15:40:16 <manu1> +1 for September 15th, 2012.
15:40:23 <gavinc> +1 to 2012
15:41:50 <manu1> Guus: Every comment during LC should raise an issue in the issue tracker - editorial issues can be responded to quickly, anything that is non-editorial should be discussed by the group before the response.
15:43:18 <manu1> manu: May be easier to create a new TURTLE LC product in the issue tracker.
15:43:24 <manu1> Guus: Let's keep it simple for now.
15:43:57 <manu1> Guus: One feature at-risk in the document - David would it be appropriate to point out a particular feature at risk? 
15:44:12 <manu1> David: Who should we send this to? What other communities would be interested in this document.
15:44:32 <manu1> Sandro: We need to mention any other WG in our charter - chairs should negotiate w/ external groups 
15:44:48 <sandro> http://www.w3.org/2011/01/rdf-wg-charter#coordination
15:45:26 <manu1> Sandro:  SPARQL, I18N, RDFa WG, Web Apps WG, XML Query WG
15:45:42 <manu1> Guus: Linked Data and Provenance WGs should also do a review.
15:46:21 <manu1> Guus: IETF IRI WG may also be interested.
15:46:56 <manu1> Guus: I think that's it - we'll have to come back if one of these groups can't do their review.
15:46:59 <pfps> pfps has joined #rdf-wg
15:47:30 <manu1> Sandro: I think EricP can handle publication steps...
15:47:51 <manu1> Guus: That's it for TURTLE LC
15:48:10 <ericP> scribenick: ericP 
15:48:11 <manu1> Topic: JSON-LD First Public Working Draft
15:48:31 <ericP> Guus: there have been WG comments on the proposed draft
15:48:34 <manu1> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-wg/2012Jun/0117.html
15:49:00 <ericP> manu: since the last meeting, we've had comments from pierre antoine, ericP, andyS
15:49:16 <ericP> ... we've applied as many as possible without risking large discussion
15:49:34 <ericP> ... the commentors have recieved replies for their comments
15:49:43 <gavinc> "JSON-LD has no equivalent for the Turtle @base declaration. Instead, authors may use a prefix definition to resolve relative IRIs:" That is NOT true. ... note to self, review JSON-LD
15:49:49 <ericP> ... we got more this week, but put them off for post-FPWD
15:50:01 <ericP> ... CG is a last stage
15:50:24 <ericP> ... the W3C tool for gathering IPR commitments was broken untill 8am
15:50:36 <ericP> ... we probably won't have the commitments for another week
15:51:16 <ericP> ... the CG work is frozen, as is the (proposed) FPWD
15:51:51 <Guus> q?
15:51:51 <ericP> ... we could publish both by 12 July if we get the anticipated IPR commitments
15:51:55 <gavinc> ack me
15:51:55 <Zakim> gavinc, you wanted to ask about LC comment window
15:51:58 <gkellogg> q+
15:51:59 <manu1> Publish the JSON-LD Syntax 1.0 (shortname: json-ld-syntax) and JSON-LD API 1.0 (shortname: json-ld-api) as First Public Working Drafts on July 12th, 2012 with the caveat that publication will not occur if the proper Community Group IPR commitments are not made before that date.
15:52:31 <ericP> gkellogg: all core contributors have signed commitments
15:52:35 <gkellogg> http://www.w3.org/community/json-ld/spec/23/commitments
15:52:53 <Zakim> -zwu2
15:53:08 <ericP> manu: there's a diff between announcing a commitment in the mailing list and the w3c commitment machine
15:53:34 <Zakim> +zwu2
15:53:48 <zwu2> sorry my phone keeps cutting me off once every 15 minutes
15:55:22 <Zakim> -[IBM]
15:56:10 <Souri> (if I may suggest) minor editorial change => replace "manu" with "john" AND "sporny" with "dow" and replace any other reference to a real person name with a hypothetical one
15:57:10 <manu1> PROPOSAL: Publish the JSON-LD Syntax 1.0 (shortname: json-ld-syntax) and JSON-LD API 1.0 (shortname: json-ld-api) as First Public Working Drafts on July 12th, 2012 with the caveat that publication will not occur if the proper Community Group IPR commitments are not made before that date. c.f.: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-wg/2012Jun/0117.html
15:57:13 <ericP> +1
15:57:14 <gkellogg> +1
15:57:18 <manu1> +1
15:57:21 <davidwood> +1
15:57:23 <yvesr> +1
15:57:29 <MacTed> +1
15:57:35 <gavinc> +0.9
15:57:50 <AlexHall> +1
15:57:52 <zwu2> +1
15:57:54 <Souri> +1
15:57:58 <sandro> +0  (just haven't reviewed it)
15:58:13 <manu1> RESOLVED: Publish the JSON-LD Syntax 1.0 (shortname: json-ld-syntax) and JSON-LD API 1.0 (shortname: json-ld-api) as First Public Working Drafts on July 12th, 2012 with the caveat that publication will not occur if the proper Community Group IPR commitments are not made before that date. c.f.: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-wg/2012Jun/0117.html
15:58:50 <ericP> Guus: thanks to the community group for bringing this to the RDF-WG and making it available as a FPWD
15:58:55 <Souri> q+
15:59:00 <gkellogg> q-
15:59:25 <ericP> manu: after i get IPR commitments, i'll send them to RDF-WG and document any issues i see
15:59:59 <ericP> ... then i'll sheperd them through pubrules
16:00:33 <ericP> Souri: as with RDB2RDF, should you avoid names of real people in specs?
16:00:47 <gavinc> -0 to changing the Turtle parsing example
16:01:14 <ericP> sandro: it's not written, but it tends not to translate across cultures
16:02:42 <Souri> "John Dow" 
16:02:57 <sandro> only reference I can find is http://www.w3.org/2001/06/manual/#Examples which doesn't say anything about this.
16:03:00 <ericP> manu: almost any name will be somebody's name
16:03:18 <ericP> ... also is less personal
16:05:09 <ericP> ADJOURNED
16:05:12 <Zakim> -Souri
16:05:12 <Zakim> -MacTed
16:05:14 <Zakim> -sandro
16:05:16 <Zakim> -manu1
16:05:17 <Zakim> -cygri
16:05:21 <Zakim> -gkellogg
16:05:29 <Zakim> -AlexHall
16:05:32 <Zakim> -zwu2
16:05:39 <Zakim> -davidwood
16:05:45 <Zakim> -yvesr
16:05:47 <Zakim> -gavinc
16:05:58 <Zakim> -pchampin
16:06:02 <MacTed> remember, kids -- always ask for Spider-Man™ brand RDF by name!
16:06:04 <Guus> trackbot, end meeting
16:06:04 <trackbot> Zakim, list attendees
16:06:05 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been +31.20.598.aaaa, [IBM], AlexHall, MacTed, AZ, sandro, Guus, yvesr, gkellogg, cygri, davidwood, manu1, gavinc, zwu2, ericP, Souri, LeeF,
16:06:08 <Zakim> ... pchampin
16:06:10 <Zakim> -ericP
16:06:12 <trackbot> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
16:06:12 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/06/27-rdf-wg-minutes.html trackbot
16:06:13 <trackbot> RRSAgent, bye
16:06:13 <RRSAgent> I see 1 open action item saved in http://www.w3.org/2012/06/27-rdf-wg-actions.rdf :
16:06:13 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Guus to setup a poll for the next RDF WG F2F. [1]
16:06:13 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/06/27-rdf-wg-irc#T15-24-49
16:10:49 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #rdf-wg
16:10:49 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/06/27-rdf-wg-irc
16:10:51 <manu1> rrsagent, make logs public
16:10:58 <manu1> rrsagent, bye
16:10:58 <RRSAgent> I see no action items
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