Chatlog 2012-03-21

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15:01:12 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #rdf-wg
15:01:12 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/03/21-rdf-wg-irc
15:01:13 <Guus> Guus has joined #rdf-wg
15:01:14 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
15:01:14 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #rdf-wg
15:01:16 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 73394
15:01:16 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see SW_RDFWG()11:00AM scheduled to start now
15:01:17 <trackbot> Meeting: RDF Working Group Teleconference
15:01:17 <trackbot> Date: 21 March 2012
15:01:26 <cgreer> cgreer has joined #rdf-wg
15:01:34 <gavinc> Zakim, this is 73394
15:01:36 <Zakim> ok, gavinc; that matches SW_RDFWG()11:00AM
15:01:49 <davidwood> Zakim, who is on the phone?
15:01:52 <Zakim> +Guus_Schreiber
15:01:55 <SteveH> SteveH has joined #rdf-wg
15:01:56 <Zakim> On the phone I see gavinc, bhyland, sandro, +1.603.897.aaaa, Arnaud, pfps, Guus_Schreiber
15:02:03 <davidwood> Zakim, bhyland is me
15:02:08 <Zakim> +EricP
15:02:14 <Zakim> +davidwood; got it
15:02:20 <AndyS1> AndyS1 has joined #rdf-wg
15:02:27 <Zakim> +cgreer
15:02:42 <Zakim> +??P25
15:02:46 <Guus> zakim, who is here?
15:02:48 <ivan> zakim, dial ivan-voip
15:02:48 <Zakim> On the phone I see gavinc, davidwood, sandro, +1.603.897.aaaa, Arnaud, pfps, Guus_Schreiber, EricP, cgreer, ??P25
15:02:49 <AndyS1> zakim, ??P25 is me
15:02:56 <Zakim> ok, ivan; the call is being made
15:02:57 <Zakim> +AndyS1; got it
15:02:59 <Zakim> +Ivan
15:03:02 <Zakim> On IRC I see AndyS1, SteveH, cgreer, Zakim, Guus, RRSAgent, Souri, Arnaud, gavinc, mischat, pfps, MacTed, LeeF, AndyS, ivan, mdmdm, yvesr, manu1, davidwood, NickH, trackbot, manu,
15:03:05 <AlexHall> AlexHall has joined #rdf-wg
15:03:06 <Zakim> ... sandro, ericP
15:03:13 <Zakim> + +1.443.212.aabb
15:03:17 <AlexHall> zakim, aabb is me
15:03:18 <Zakim> +AlexHall; got it
15:03:24 <zwu2> zwu2 has joined #rdf-wg
15:03:26 <Zakim> +OpenLink_Software
15:03:32 <MacTed> Zakim, OpenLink_Software is temporarily me
15:03:32 <Zakim> +MacTed; got it
15:03:33 <MacTed> Zakim, mute me
15:03:34 <zwu2> zakim, code?
15:03:36 <Zakim> MacTed should now be muted
15:03:37 <Guus> zakim, who is here?
15:03:38 <Zakim> the conference code is 73394 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), zwu2
15:03:59 <Zakim> On the phone I see gavinc, davidwood, sandro, +1.603.897.aaaa, Arnaud, pfps, Guus_Schreiber, EricP, cgreer, AndyS1, Ivan, AlexHall, MacTed (muted)
15:04:17 <gavinc> http://www.random.org/coins/
15:04:19 <Zakim> On IRC I see zwu2, AlexHall, AndyS1, SteveH, cgreer, Zakim, Guus, RRSAgent, Souri, Arnaud, gavinc, mischat, pfps, MacTed, LeeF, AndyS, ivan, mdmdm, yvesr, manu1, davidwood, NickH,
15:04:24 <Zakim> ... trackbot, manu, sandro, ericP
15:04:34 <Zakim> +zwu2
15:04:50 <Guus> any volunteer for scribing?
15:05:26 <Zakim> +??P36
15:05:26 <Zakim> +LeeF
15:05:33 <SteveH> Zakim, ??P36 is me
15:05:33 <Zakim> +SteveH; got it
15:05:52 <ericP> You flipped 1 coin of type Polish 5 Złoty:
15:06:33 <Zakim> +??P38
15:06:41 <Zakim> -pfps
15:06:43 <ericP> scribenick: ericP 
15:06:56 <MacTed> Zakim, who's noisy?
15:06:58 <NickH> Zakim, ??P38 is me
15:06:58 <Zakim> +NickH; got it
15:07:03 <NickH> Zakim, mute me
15:07:03 <Zakim> NickH should now be muted
15:07:07 <Zakim> MacTed, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: gavinc (7%), ??P38 (15%), EricP (52%)
15:07:29 <MacTed> Zakim, unmute me
15:07:29 <Zakim> MacTed should no longer be muted
15:07:40 <MacTed> Zakim, mute me
15:07:40 <Zakim> MacTed should now be muted
15:07:41 <zwu2> zakim, mute me
15:07:41 <Zakim> zwu2 should now be muted
15:07:57 <MacTed> Zakim, unmute me
15:07:57 <Zakim> MacTed should no longer be muted
15:08:08 <gavinc> the click seems to be zakim?
15:08:23 <MacTed> Zakim, mute me
15:08:23 <Zakim> MacTed should now be muted
15:08:25 <Zakim> -AndyS1
15:08:28 <MacTed> Zakim, mute ericP
15:08:28 <Zakim> EricP should now be muted
15:08:29 <MacTed> :-)
15:08:36 <ericP> weak!
15:08:41 <Zakim> -EricP
15:08:53 <Zakim> +EricP
15:09:05 <gavinc> click, click, click
15:09:11 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
15:09:21 <AndyS1> zakim, IPCaller is me
15:09:21 <Zakim> +AndyS1; got it
15:09:24 <gavinc> Ah, that must be AndyS in a snowstorm
15:10:37 <Guus> PROPOSED to accept the minutes of the 14 Mar telecon: 
15:10:50 <ericP> RESOLVED
15:11:16 <ericP> topic: action item review
15:11:34 <ericP> Guus: Turtle actions will be taken up in Turtle agendum
15:11:36 <Zakim> -AndyS1
15:11:46 <ericP> ... Sandro and I owe actions
15:12:18 <ericP> topic: getting Turtle to LC
15:12:29 <gavinc> I claim victory on ACTION-154!
15:12:37 <gavinc> ACTION-150?
15:12:37 <trackbot> ACTION-150 -- Gavin Carothers to fail to update Turtle/N-Triples grammar to not use \u escaping in the local part of prefix names -- due 2012-03-21 -- OPEN
15:12:37 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/actions/150
15:12:50 <Zakim> +??P25
15:13:06 <AndyS1> zakim, ??P25 is me
15:13:06 <Zakim> +AndyS1; got it
15:14:17 <cygri> cygri has joined #rdf-wg
15:14:30 <ericP> Guus: do we need to discussion the ":"s in local names issue?
15:14:37 <cygri> zakim, code?
15:14:37 <Zakim> the conference code is 73394 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), cygri
15:14:44 <ericP> gavinc: since i didn't file the issue in time, i suspect we'll do nothing about it
15:14:50 <ericP> ... i'm mostly okay with that
15:15:03 <Zakim> +mhausenblas
15:15:04 <ericP> ... creates some probs for a poor vocab proposed by facebook
15:15:07 <cygri> zakim, mhausenblas is temporarily me
15:15:07 <Zakim> +cygri; got it
15:15:42 <LeeF> colons? wacky
15:15:43 <ericP> ... Facebook uses ":"s in local part of propery names
15:15:50 <ericP> ivan: already widely used?
15:15:54 <ericP> gavinc: yup
15:15:59 <ericP> ack me
15:16:28 <ericP> CONTINUE ACTION-152
15:16:39 <zwu2> yes
15:16:47 <ericP> ACTION-153 DONE
15:16:57 <AndyS1> example - og:video:height
15:17:06 <AndyS1> http://developers.facebook.com/docs/opengraphprotocol/
15:17:36 <ericP> ACTION-154
15:17:50 <ericP> gavinc: we keep the case-sensitivity
15:17:54 <AndyS1> The "og:" is effectively a prefix part, the "video:height" is effectively a local part
15:17:58 <ericP> ... i'll remove the change note
15:18:29 <ericP> ACTION-154 DONE
15:18:48 <PatH> PatH has joined #rdf-wg
15:18:57 <ericP> Guus: note that next week's telecon returns to CT's 5pm
15:18:57 <PatH> Sorry Im late.
15:19:59 <Zakim> +PatH
15:20:10 <zwu2> zakim, unmute me
15:20:10 <Zakim> zwu2 should no longer be muted
15:20:12 <zwu2> q+
15:20:19 <ericP> gavinc: issues were relationship between texp/plain and application/ntriples
15:20:29 <ericP> ... and @@1
15:20:46 <Zakim> +pfps
15:21:03 <ericP> zwu2: we'd like to see clarification of consequences of using new encoding on old tool
15:21:26 <PatH> zakim, mute me.
15:21:26 <Zakim> PatH should now be muted
15:21:29 <ericP> gavinc: can we say "there may be some issues" instead of "you should continue to serve ntriples as US-ASCII"?
15:21:37 <ericP> zwu2: agree to a large extent
15:21:52 <ericP> ... but for maximum backward-compatibility, one should
15:22:10 <ericP> ... is it acceptable to include that qualifier [in the spec]?
15:22:14 <cygri> q+
15:22:21 <ericP> gavinc: i'm not ok with that but willing to defer to the WG
15:22:29 <ericP> ... many tools today already accept UTF8
15:22:38 <AndyS1> which existing tools actually look at the Content-Type (and charset)?
15:22:44 <ericP> zwu2: there are many tools which do not accept the new encoding
15:23:01 <ericP> davidwood: that doesn't mean we should prefer ASCII for the next 10 years
15:23:21 <davidwood> We should *allow*, but not *prefer* ASCII
15:23:50 <ericP> zwu2: for this new encoding to work with tools, shouldn't we document the backward-compatibility path?
15:23:52 <cygri> q?
15:24:18 <ericP> davidwood: as long as ASCII is allowed, how does it hurt backward-compatibility even if it's not preferred?
15:24:43 <PatH> The issue I think is that to express any kind of preference for ASCII might (we hope) be archaic some years from now, even if it is accurate now.
15:24:44 <ericP> zwu2: supposed you create an ntriples file in two years, and then i feed it to rapper
15:25:04 <ericP> ... it will fail. should we have a warning indicating these consequences
15:25:20 <ericP> note that this is *forward* compatibility
15:25:37 <ericP> new data on old tools
15:25:49 <cygri> q?
15:25:52 <PatH> it is a delicate matter of wording and nuance.
15:26:31 <ericP> gavinc: i propose to propose some text over the next week. good enough?
15:26:46 <ericP> Guus: let's leave that to editorial discretion
15:26:52 <Guus> ack zwu
15:26:59 <Guus> ack cygri
15:27:12 <ericP> cygri: it may not be necessary to say what people should do in what case, instead just the facts:
15:27:31 <ericP> ... utf8 and us-ascii are both valid encodings for turtle
15:27:43 <PatH> +1 to richard
15:27:43 <ericP> ... some legacy systems do not handle utf8
15:27:53 <gavinc> +1 richard
15:28:05 <AlexHall> +1, describe the technical issues and let people decide
15:28:06 <ericP> gavinc: yes [going in this direction]
15:28:27 <ericP> cygri: it's reasonable to point out that conventional tools don't handle utf-8
15:28:29 <PatH> could also say, at the time of writing....
15:28:46 <ericP> Guus: let's leave this as useful input to the editors
15:28:52 <gavinc> +1 PatH, and include the date ;)
15:28:55 <cygri> "at the time of writing" sounds reasonable
15:29:23 <ivan> issue-73?
15:29:23 <trackbot> ISSUE-73 -- IRI_REF vs. IRIref -- open
15:29:23 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/issues/73
15:29:43 <ericP> Guus: we agreed that you three work this out
15:29:49 <AndyS1> Is done in SPARQL.
15:29:49 <ericP> gavinc: i think we have
15:30:38 <ericP> AndyS1: action told us to get our act together off-list
15:30:56 <ericP> ... i have changed the sparql grammar
15:30:58 <ericP> ack me
15:31:30 <gavinc> IRI_REF             => IRIREF
15:31:31 <gavinc> IRIRef              => iri
15:31:33 <gavinc> IRIRefOrFunction    => iriOrFunction
15:31:34 <gavinc> VarOrIRIref         => VarOrIri
15:31:38 <PatH> it has consequences throughout the documents though, so get it right, guys. ;
15:32:49 <ericP> these productions have consequences in the turtle semantics (parsing rules) as well
15:32:59 <PatH> I was under the naive impression that 
15:33:28 <gavinc> PROPOSE Resolve Issue-73 by changing the following productions in Turtle: IRI_REF => IRIREF, IRIRef => iri, IRIRefOrFunction => iriOrFunction, VarOrIRIref => VarOrIri
15:33:29 <PatH> IRI didnt need to have ref added :-(
15:33:50 <ericP> ack me
15:34:11 <PatH> not disputing, just muddled.
15:34:27 <AndyS1> iri is prefix name and <...>
15:34:38 <AndyS1> IRIREF is the <...> from RFC
15:34:43 <AndyS1> +1
15:34:46 <ericP> +1
15:34:49 <gavinc> +1
15:34:50 <PatH> +0
15:35:06 <ericP> RESOLVED
15:36:04 <ericP> RESOLVED: Resolve Issue-73 by changing the following productions in Turtle: IRI_REF => IRIREF, IRIRef => iri, IRIRefOrFunction => iriOrFunction, VarOrIRIref => VarOrIri
15:36:11 <AZ> AZ has joined #rdf-wg
15:36:29 <AndyS1> issue-74?
15:36:29 <trackbot> ISSUE-74 -- Prefixed names and slashes -- open
15:36:29 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/issues/74
15:37:02 <ericP> yep
15:37:36 <ericP> Guus: are we still on track for publication next week?
15:37:44 <Zakim> +??P3
15:37:53 <ericP> gavinc: i believe we can have somehting for folks to review next week.
15:37:59 <AZ> zakim, ??P3 is me
15:37:59 <Zakim> +AZ; got it
15:38:08 <ericP> ... i don't think adding a week [before review] would help
15:38:24 <ericP> Guus: we keep to current schedule
15:38:48 <ericP> ... two reviews expected 9 April, so possible decision to publish 11 April
15:39:06 <ericP> ... Andy brought up tests. when should we discuss them?
15:39:19 <ericP> ... we can discuss them during LC
15:39:35 <ericP> gavinc: i originally volunteered to write test cases for turtle
15:40:05 <ericP> ... won't get to them before LC
15:40:11 <ericP> topic: named graph semantics
15:40:12 <PatH> zakim, unmute me.
15:40:12 <Zakim> PatH should no longer be muted
15:40:15 <gavinc> Zakim, mute me
15:40:15 <Zakim> gavinc should now be muted
15:40:42 <ericP> Guus: we spent some time last week
15:41:00 <ericP> PatH: may i have another week to write up the idea discussed last week
15:41:10 <ericP> Guus: would like concrete actions to work out examples
15:41:27 <ericP> ... i'm worried about how to explain this to folks outside WG
15:41:40 <ericP> ... could work that out as draft text in the primer
15:41:52 <ericP> ... i liked PatH's text which described what happens on import
15:42:07 <ericP> ... which everyone does
15:42:14 <PatH> I will try to write it as primer-level text.
15:42:24 <ericP> PatH: draft text for Primer would be useful
15:42:44 <PatH> ok, sounds great
15:43:04 <ericP> ACTION: Guus to draft Primer text on importing named graphs
15:43:04 <trackbot> Created ACTION-159 - Draft Primer text on importing named graphs [on Guus Schreiber - due 2012-03-28].
15:43:29 <ericP> Guus: would be nice to apply use cases to PatH's proposal
15:43:47 <PatH> fwiw, the point i am having trouble with is having an 
15:44:21 <PatH> iri denote one thing while also indicating a context.
15:45:01 <ericP> PatH: the biggest prob is having an iri able to identify both an e.g. person or context
15:45:06 <ericP> ack me
15:45:16 <pfps> I'm not sure what the problem is here.
15:45:26 <AndyS1> q+
15:45:50 <ericP> ... the fourth field could be any uri, e.g. used to identify an e.g. person
15:46:04 <cygri> +1 to AndyS
15:46:12 <ericP> ... how important is it for the same uri to identify both a real-world thingy and a context?
15:46:28 <ericP> SteveH: it doesn't have to be santioned
15:46:51 <Guus> ack AndyS
15:46:58 <ericP> ... people will do what they do so it's not critical to make it so flexible
15:47:06 <ericP> AndyS1: two subcases:
15:47:22 <ericP> ... .. person, and e.g. LeeF doesn't expect the spec to cover it
15:47:29 <ericP> ... .. location on the web
15:47:37 <LeeF> That is a correct characterization of my position - we use URIs to denote both real-world things and graphs, and we don't really care if the spec covers it 
15:47:41 <ericP> ... could you do the easy one now, so we can see it?
15:47:51 <ericP> ... would be nice to compare them side-by-side
15:48:12 <ericP> PatH: hmm, not as easy as i thought, but can get it out in the next couple days
15:48:22 <AndyS1> ack me
15:48:27 <ericP> ... i'll document the simplest, and report its flaws
15:48:53 <ericP> Guus: your second case splits where the web resource is static or dynamic
15:49:13 <ericP> these three seem to come up consistently and cover the requirements
15:49:23 <MacTed> the context comes in the triples involving the URI -- the URI itself is opaque...
15:49:23 <MacTed> :URI a :person   vs   :URI a :webpage   vs :URI a :electron
15:49:24 <MacTed> :URI a :indeterminate-thing   has attributes
15:49:24 <MacTed> eventually you have enough attributes to know which it is -- or you know which attributes to discard, because they're not relevant to the thing with which you are concerned...
15:49:27 <ericP> ... if we go for a solution, these should be the basis
15:50:18 <ericP> davidwood: i thought that we decided even static was likely to change over time, just a matter of degree
15:50:25 <AndyS1> case 1: static graph containers: always the same value // case 2: Changing contents (changing value) [maybe a continuum]
15:50:36 <ericP> PatH: while that's true philosophically, there are those that we treat as static
15:50:54 <ericP> ... so when static things change, we expect stuff to break
15:51:13 <ericP> ... the dynamic stuff is engineered to change
15:51:47 <ericP> davidwood: are you trying to make this isomorphic with things with things which should be time invariant?
15:52:02 <gavinc> +q
15:52:05 <ericP> ack me
15:52:21 <gavinc> ack me
15:52:28 <Guus> ack gavinc
15:52:34 <ericP> PatH: people should be able to declare stuff invariant
15:52:44 <ericP> ... e.g. signing, endorsing
15:52:53 <PatH> eric is better than I am at writing my thoughts, which is scary.
15:52:55 <MacTed> s/attributes to know which it is/attributes to know which class it belongs to/
15:53:02 <MacTed> s/not relevant to the thing/not relevant to the class/
15:53:43 <ericP> gavinc: i don't really agree RDF emulate snapshots for signing as every signing mechanism snapshots into a bytestream
15:54:05 <ericP> PatH: how does one record a signed document as a web resource for later review?
15:55:14 <ivan> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnet_URI_scheme
15:55:46 <ericP> gavinc: magnet URIs are designed for crypticographically identifying a resource for later search
15:56:24 <ericP> Guus: magnet uris are a draft open standard
15:56:45 <MacTed> Zakim, unmute me
15:56:46 <Zakim> MacTed should no longer be muted
15:56:57 <ivan> http://magnet-uri.sourceforge.net/
15:57:43 <ericP> PatH: back to named graphs, maybe this makes a use case irrelevent. will consider
15:58:22 <ericP> sandro: last i recall was gavinc and i disputed whether you needed crypto in the endorsement use case
15:59:03 <zwu2> sorry I have another meeting coming up. bye.
15:59:11 <Zakim> -zwu2
15:59:19 <ericP> gavinc: crypto gets you the ability to use magent uris to identify things on the web and get them without dereference
15:59:59 <ericP> q+ to say we *can* factor crypto out
16:00:19 <ericP> AndyS1: there are existing tools and techniques using crypto
16:00:36 <ericP> ... crypto not necessary technically
16:00:55 <ericP> ack me
16:00:56 <Zakim> ericP, you wanted to say we *can* factor crypto out
16:01:00 <PatH> ?seem to be 2 cases? 1. controlling who gets to see the resource  2. ensuring that the resource referred to is the right one. I think (?) magnet uris are for the first?
16:01:16 <ericP> ack me
16:01:33 <sandro> found it --- http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/Example_of_Endorsement_Use_Case
16:02:36 <ericP> ack me
16:04:33 <ericP> MacTed: you have to hash a gsnap
16:04:49 <ericP> or i can ask some trusted party to copy it
16:05:09 <ericP> or you may trust me to nto alter the text, and i just want to talk *about* that graph
16:05:28 <Guus> sandro, pls talk us through the page you pointed to
16:05:34 <ericP> +1
16:05:36 <sandro> http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/Example_of_Endorsement_Use_Case
16:06:09 <PatH> zakim, mute me
16:06:09 <Zakim> PatH should now be muted
16:06:37 <ericP> [conversation about guuids and crypto]
16:06:47 <PatH> +1 to whoever just spoke
16:07:04 <PatH> that was ted
16:07:04 <ericP> sandro: gavin created this wiki page
16:07:26 <ericP> ... started with use case "alice want to say that she agrees that 'Bob is named Bob'"
16:07:42 <sandro>      <#me> foaf:name "Bob",
16:07:50 <sandro> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-wg/2012Jan/0064.html
16:08:08 <ericP> ... Bob says "<#me> foaf:name "Bob""
16:08:59 <sandro> http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/Example_of_Endorsement_Use_Case
16:09:07 <ericP> ... adding crypto isn't required for this use case
16:09:45 <ericP> ... gavinc's using something cryptographically derived from bytes instead "g775"
16:10:12 <ericP> gavinc: if someone is externally signing the docs, you don't need the crypto in trig
16:10:35 <Guus> q+
16:10:46 <davidwood> q+ to comment against Sandro's message
16:11:02 <PatH> trust =/= security?
16:11:10 <ericP> ack me
16:11:43 <ericP> Zakim, mute me
16:11:43 <Zakim> EricP should now be muted
16:11:47 <PatH> zakim, unmute me
16:11:47 <Zakim> PatH should no longer be muted
16:12:19 <PatH> q+
16:13:18 <ericP> sandro: is there anything that this group needs to do to make this example work?
16:14:15 <AndyS1> This WG does not need to solve this problem - it needs to enable it or just not block it.
16:15:11 <sandro> sandro: I will happily agree that crypt-URIs *are* useful for when you DONT want to use TRIG.  When the data is too long, or something.
16:15:24 <PatH> q-
16:15:30 <Guus> ack Guus
16:15:36 <Guus> ack davidwood
16:15:36 <Zakim> davidwood, you wanted to comment against Sandro's message
16:15:42 <ericP> davidwood: critique of sandro's mail, alice could have made up "Bob's name is 'Bob'"
16:15:44 <PatH> david just made mt point.
16:15:59 <PatH> mt//my
16:17:08 <MacTed> what "GRAPH"?  gsnap, gbox, gtext?  I think there is slop happening...
16:17:28 <ericP> PatH: there's not much point is endorsing a mathmatical abstraction
16:18:04 <ericP> i wonder if annotea was an endorsement system
16:18:25 <PatH> time rescues us again....
16:18:32 <ericP> Guus: if we don't get some examples, we have to go with the minimal solution
16:18:55 <Zakim> -cgreer
16:18:58 <ericP> sandro: or admit defeat (preferrable to claiming victory on a non-success)
16:18:59 <Zakim> -PatH
16:19:17 <Zakim> -AZ
16:19:22 <Zakim> - +1.603.897.aaaa
16:19:22 <AndyS1> We should define TriG syntax -- it's out there now -- ditto nquads
16:19:25 <ericP> ck me
16:19:25 <Zakim> -pfps
16:19:27 <ericP> ack me
16:19:29 <Zakim> -Arnaud
16:19:30 <Zakim> -AlexHall
16:19:30 <Zakim> -sandro
16:19:35 <Zakim> -NickH
16:19:37 <Zakim> -Guus_Schreiber
16:19:37 <Zakim> -AndyS1
16:19:41 <Zakim> -gavinc
16:19:44 <Zakim> -Ivan
16:19:46 <MacTed> http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/Scribes
16:19:49 <MacTed> :-)
16:19:49 <sandro> syntax without semantics, AndyS ?      Maybe....
16:19:51 <davidwood> http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/Scribes
16:20:11 <Zakim> -MacTed
16:20:34 <Zakim> -EricP
16:20:35 <Zakim> -cygri
16:20:37 <Zakim> -davidwood
16:20:39 <AndyS1> If we can't define the semantics we can at least enable data exchange.
16:21:03 <davidwood> AndyS I like it as a first step
16:21:03 <gavinc> +1
16:21:07 <sandro> yep.     true.
16:21:17 <AndyS1> It will happen, the only Q is whether we help interoperability or not by fixing details.
16:23:30 <Zakim> -SteveH
16:23:36 <AlexHall> AlexHall has left #rdf-wg
16:25:09 <Zakim> -LeeF
16:25:10 <Zakim> SW_RDFWG()11:00AM has ended
16:25:10 <Zakim> Attendees were gavinc, sandro, +1.603.897.aaaa, Arnaud, pfps, Guus_Schreiber, EricP, davidwood, cgreer, AndyS1, Ivan, +1.443.212.aabb, AlexHall, MacTed, zwu2, LeeF, SteveH, NickH,
16:25:10 <Zakim> ... cygri, PatH, AZ
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