Chatlog 2011-09-14

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14:56:55 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #rdf-wg
14:56:55 <RRSAgent> logging to
14:56:57 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
14:56:57 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #rdf-wg
14:56:59 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 73394
14:56:59 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see SW_RDFWG()11:00AM scheduled to start in 4 minutes
14:57:00 <trackbot> Meeting: RDF Working Group Teleconference
14:57:00 <trackbot> Date: 14 September 2011
14:58:18 <Zakim> SW_RDFWG()11:00AM has now started
14:58:25 <Zakim> + +1.650.917.aaaa
14:58:36 <gavinc> zakim, aaaa is me
14:58:36 <Zakim> +gavinc; got it
14:58:54 <Zakim> +Guus_Schreiber
14:59:28 <Zakim> +Tony
14:59:40 <Scott_Bauer> Zakim, Tony is me
14:59:41 <Zakim> +Scott_Bauer; got it
15:00:16 <zwu2> zwu2 has joined #rdf-wg
15:00:23 <zwu2> zakim, code?
15:00:23 <Zakim> the conference code is 73394 (tel:+1.617.761.6200, zwu2
15:00:24 <AndyS> AndyS has joined #rdf-wg
15:00:58 <Zakim> +??P27
15:01:01 <Zakim> +??P36
15:01:07 <AndyS> zakim, ??P36 is me
15:01:07 <Zakim> +AndyS; got it
15:01:10 <NickH> Zakim, ??P27 is me
15:01:10 <Zakim> +NickH; got it
15:01:11 <Zakim> +zwu2
15:01:16 <pchampin> pchampin has joined #rdf-wg
15:01:18 <Zakim> +Peter_Patel-Schneider
15:01:26 <ww> ww has joined #rdf-wg
15:01:35 <ivan> zakim, dial ivan-voip
15:01:35 <Zakim> ok, ivan; the call is being made
15:01:35 <pfps> pfps has joined #rdf-wg
15:01:42 <Zakim> +Ivan
15:01:50 <AlexHall> AlexHall has joined #rdf-wg
15:02:06 <Zakim> + +1.443.212.aabb
15:02:10 <ww> Zakim, aabb is me
15:02:11 <Zakim> +??P38
15:02:17 <ww> nono
15:02:22 <Zakim> +ww; got it
15:02:24 <ww> Zakim, ??P38 is me
15:02:29 <NickH> zakim, mute me
15:02:36 <Zakim> +ww; got it
15:02:42 <Zakim> NickH should now be muted
15:02:48 <ww> Zakim, mute me
15:02:56 <Zakim> ww should now be muted
15:03:19 <AlexHall> zakim, who is on the phone?
15:03:19 <Zakim> On the phone I see gavinc, Guus_Schreiber, Scott_Bauer, NickH (muted), AndyS, zwu2, Peter_Patel-Schneider, Ivan, ww (muted), ww.a
15:03:41 <Zakim> +OpenLink_Software
15:03:49 <MacTed> Zakim, OpenLink_Software is temporarily me
15:03:49 <Zakim> +MacTed; got it
15:03:51 <MacTed> Zakim, mute me
15:03:51 <Zakim> MacTed should now be muted
15:04:02 <Zakim> +Sandro
15:04:02 <AlexHall> one of the ww's is me, how do i fix it?
15:04:56 <zwu2> Scribe: zwu2
15:05:23 <ww> AlexHall: sorry about that
15:05:33 <ww> Zakim, aabb is AlexHall 
15:05:41 <Zakim> sorry, ww, I do not recognize a party named 'aabb'
15:05:49 <ww> zakim, ww.a is AlexHall 
15:05:49 <Zakim> +AlexHall; got it
15:05:57 <ww> zakim, who is on the call?
15:05:57 <Zakim> On the phone I see gavinc, Guus_Schreiber, Scott_Bauer, NickH (muted), AndyS, zwu2, Peter_Patel-Schneider, Ivan, ww (muted), AlexHall, MacTed (muted), Sandro
15:06:30 <zwu2> topic: introductions
15:06:32 <AlexHall> thanks, ww
15:06:40 <zwu2> PROPOSED to accept the minutes of the 7 Sep telecon: 
15:07:01 <ericP> Zakim, please dial ericP-office
15:07:01 <Zakim> ok, ericP; the call is being made
15:07:02 <Zakim> +EricP
15:07:11 <AZ> AZ has joined #rdf-wg
15:07:14 <zwu2> RESOLVED: accept the minutes of the 7 Sep telecon
15:07:19 <ivan> zakim, mute me
15:07:19 <Zakim> Ivan should now be muted
15:07:32 <zwu2> topic: action reviews
15:07:59 <zwu2> Guus: David put up F2F agenda
15:08:29 <zwu2> ... draft agenda
15:08:49 <zwu2> ... open actions
15:09:27 <zwu2> Action-67?
15:09:27 <trackbot> ACTION-67 -- Patrick Hayes to review Pierre-A's comments on SPARQL graph store update protocol -- due 2011-07-06 -- OPEN
15:09:27 <trackbot>
15:09:45 <zwu2> action Guus: remind Pat on action-67
15:09:46 <trackbot> Created ACTION-87 - Remind Pat on action-67 [on Guus Schreiber - due 2011-09-21].
15:09:52 <zwu2> action-73?
15:09:52 <trackbot> ACTION-73 -- Fabien Gandon to implement -- due 2012-01-05 -- OPEN
15:09:52 <trackbot>
15:09:57 <zwu2> Guus: leave it open
15:10:02 <zwu2> action-77?
15:10:02 <trackbot> ACTION-77 -- Richard Cyganiak to add strawman rdf dataset proposal to concepts -- due 2011-08-24 -- OPEN
15:10:02 <trackbot>
15:10:10 <zwu2> ... is Richard in?
15:10:22 <ivan> I think he is out these days
15:10:30 <zwu2> action-79?
15:10:30 <trackbot> ACTION-79 -- Guus Schreiber to discuss with FabGandon about where to put examples and what to do with primary before F2F -- due 2011-09-29 -- OPEN
15:10:30 <trackbot>
15:10:37 <zwu2> ... needs to be continued, for later
15:10:42 <zwu2> Action-82?
15:10:42 <trackbot> ACTION-82 -- Sandro Hawke to draft well-known URI template and propose WG resolution that it is "stable" enough for IETF. -- due 2011-09-14 -- OPEN
15:10:42 <trackbot>
15:10:48 <zwu2> ... Sandro, did you make progress
15:10:52 <zwu2> sandro: no
15:11:01 <zwu2> action-86?
15:11:01 <trackbot> ACTION-86 -- Sandro Hawke to provide example for how code is simpler with language-tag options 3 and 4 vs 1 and 2. -- due 2011-09-14 -- OPEN
15:11:01 <trackbot>
15:11:25 <Zakim> +??P58
15:11:59 <zwu2> proposed to close action-86
15:12:11 <mischat> mischat has joined #rdf-wg
15:12:37 <zwu2> Topic: F2F planning
15:12:51 <zwu2> Guus: wiki page:
15:12:59 <zwu2> ... 11 people at BBC,
15:13:13 <zwu2> ... peter, will you attend?
15:13:21 <swh> swh has joined #rdf-wg
15:13:25 <zwu2> peter: may not know until Tues morning
15:13:42 <Zakim> + +
15:14:00 <AZ> zakim, + is me
15:14:10 <Zakim> +AZ; got it
15:14:38 <zwu2> Guus: draft agenda for two days
15:14:59 <zwu2> ... we have more time now due to timezone difference
15:15:14 <zwu2> ... any comments?
15:16:25 <zwu2> ... By the time of Boston f2f, 
15:16:38 <zwu2> ... we should have some new material
15:16:59 <zwu2> ... for RDF Primer,
15:17:07 <zwu2> ... unlikely to be complete.
15:17:18 <ivan> zakim, unmute me
15:17:18 <Zakim> Ivan should no longer be muted
15:17:56 <zwu2> ivan: one of the two hotels does not have any more room
15:18:01 <NickH> I will pass on the message to yvesr 
15:18:54 <zwu2> ... can you send out that hotel info?
15:19:32 <mischat> the pound is weak at the moment, people should be "ok" 
15:19:41 <zwu2> action Guus: provide information on london hotel
15:19:41 <trackbot> Created ACTION-88 - Provide information on london hotel [on Guus Schreiber - due 2011-09-21].
15:20:18 <zwu2> Topic: liaison with Provenance WG
15:20:34 <zwu2> Guus: we will use RDF WG channel
15:20:52 <zwu2> ... zakim code is RDFG 
15:21:13 <zwu2> ... attendance is in
15:21:22 <pchampin> pchampin has joined #rdf-wg
15:21:29 <zwu2> ... not sure who will attend from Provenance WG
15:21:40 <zwu2> ... two main objectives
15:21:47 <zwu2> ... 1. requirement
15:22:25 <zwu2> ... work out use cases
15:22:56 <zwu2> ... have joint actions to work on the examples (concrete)
15:23:40 <AndyS> +1 to concrete examples
15:23:45 <mischat> i thought that the provenance group where going to give us concrete examples?
15:23:52 <ivan> zakim, mute me
15:23:52 <Zakim> Ivan should now be muted
15:24:06 <zwu2> topic: RDF Dataset proposal
15:24:24 <zwu2> Guus: richard is essential to this discussion, He is not here
15:24:27 <Zakim> +??P59
15:24:35 <pchampin> zakim, ??P59 is me
15:24:35 <Zakim> +pchampin; got it
15:25:02 <zwu2> ... not sure if we can discuss this item
15:25:25 <ivan> zakim, unmute me
15:25:25 <Zakim> Ivan should no longer be muted
15:25:41 <zwu2> ivan: we should not go into discussion
15:26:19 <zwu2> sandro: the doc does not look much different to me
15:26:42 <Souri> Souri has joined #RDF-WG
15:27:11 <zwu2> sandro: it is not a great proposal
15:27:21 <zwu2> ... his design is minimal
15:27:25 <Zakim> +Souri
15:27:49 <sandro> s/great/sufficient/
15:28:34 <zwu2> sandro: applications need their vocab to do something useful
15:28:59 <zwu2> ... we need to proceed with more use cases
15:29:14 <Guus> q?
15:29:18 <ivan> q-
15:29:21 <Zakim> -Peter_Patel-Schneider
15:29:43 <zwu2> Topic: language tagged literals
15:30:13 <zwu2> Guus: only two proposals look promising
15:30:33 <zwu2> ... 1 or 2d
15:31:05 <zwu2> ... either we do nothing, or we go with 2d
15:31:22 <zwu2> ... we don't have to make a final decision today
15:31:32 <zwu2> ... for resolution, we could go for 2d
15:31:52 <zwu2> ... if we get sufficient push back, then we choose 1 and do nothing
15:32:00 <zwu2> sandro: I agree that approach makes sense
15:32:21 <zwu2> ... doing 2d at provisional at risk
15:32:26 <ivan> +1 to what to sandro says
15:32:35 <zwu2> ... let community decide if it is desired
15:32:58 <zwu2> Guus: not sure much is going to change before F2F
15:33:24 <zwu2> ... Pat said he prefers 4
15:34:06 <ivan> -> results of the poll
15:34:08 <zwu2> ... I will write an email to the group
15:34:30 <ivan> For the records, 2d means: "The abstract syntax has a lexical form and language tag (like in RDF 2004). The value is assigned directly (like in RDF 2004), bypassing the datatype. The datatype has an empty lexical space and empty L2V mapping."
15:35:14 <sandro> Or, more simply -- it's the same as we have now, except instead of an EMPTY datatype for tagged strings, there's a particular value for those strings.
15:35:24 <zwu2> action Guus: email to group stating a possible resolution for tagged literals
15:35:25 <trackbot> Created ACTION-89 - Email to group stating a possible resolution for tagged literals [on Guus Schreiber - due 2011-09-21].
15:36:18 <zwu2> Guus: aob?
15:37:32 <zwu2> Topic: telecon adjourned
15:37:37 <ericP> sandro: two axes:
15:37:44 <ericP> ... current (lex, (datatype | langtag)
15:37:49 <ericP> )
15:38:04 <sandro> Choice One:      <lexrep, dt, opt language tag>    or just <lexrep, dt>
15:38:32 <ericP> isn't the current: <lexrep, dt> | <lexrep, opt language tag> ?
15:39:13 <sandro> Choice Two:   smoosh the lang tag into Lexrep (option 4) or into datatype URI (option 3a).
15:39:31 <Zakim> -zwu2
15:39:49 <Zakim> -Souri
15:40:09 <gavinc> current <lexrep> | <lexrep, dt> | <lexrep, langtag>
15:40:14 <Zakim> -NickH
15:40:38 <gavinc> current, post xsd:string normalization: <lexrep, dt> | <lexrep, langtag>
15:42:22 <swh> agreed, option 4 is v. bad
15:42:25 <ericP> +1 to -1 of smushing into the string
15:42:32 <gavinc> Option 4 is bad
15:42:48 <AlexHall> +1 as long as we're talking about the RDF abstract syntax
15:43:15 <Zakim> -AZ
15:43:19 <AndyS> opt 4 is very very bad AKA it will be ignored - APIs will hide it completely so does not exist
15:43:22 <gavinc> language tags REQUIRE micro parsing already btw
15:43:23 <AndyS> several of us were originally interested but DT-lang but it had problems.
15:43:37 <sandro> ivan: my problem with 3 is the vast number of language tag URIs that we'd have.   that might cause problems.
15:44:03 <AndyS> gavinc - not really - can treat (unchecked) as strings.
15:44:27 <gavinc> that's true, okay... langMatches() requires micro parsing
15:44:28 <AndyS> true if checking -- but can "assume" valid
15:44:40 <sandro> ivan: owl2 semantics, generating things like differentFrom for each datatype
15:44:48 <AndyS> Yes, langMatches is ... interesting.  
15:45:59 <gavinc>
15:46:36 <sandro> gavin; I don't object to 3a due to microparsing -- since you need to "microparse" language tags anyone.
15:47:08 <pchampin> +1 to Ivan: 3a makes no statements about relations between the language types
15:47:39 <sandro> AndyS: the mental framework from datatypes does not apply to the theory of lanuage tags.
15:47:55 <pchampin> q+ to ask a question about 3a and datatypes
15:48:07 <pchampin> ack me
15:48:09 <Zakim> pchampin, you wanted to ask a question about 3a and datatypes
15:48:09 <AndyS> Also JJC email that relationship of DT != lang relationships
15:48:13 <sandro> (ah, that makes sense, Andy.)
15:48:24 <ericP> we need to A/B test by teaching folks the different models and seeing which they "get" in the sense of having intelligent intuitions
15:48:43 <Guus> I prefer 2d because it apprears to be the smallest change that does the trick, but maybe someone can convince me this is wrong
15:49:11 <Zakim> -Scott_Bauer
15:49:24 <pchampin> zakim, mute me
15:49:24 <Zakim> pchampin should now be muted
15:49:28 <gavinc> Turtle funkyness, "Bob"@en == "Bob"^^lang:EN == "Bob"^^lang:en 
15:49:52 <pchampin> my question is: are those datatypes (in option 3a) different in any way form other datatypes?
15:50:04 <pchampin> I think not, but some ppl seem to think so
15:50:16 <gavinc> datatype("Bob"@en) doesn't throw an error
15:50:39 <AndyS>
15:50:55 <ericP> gus, we lost yhou
15:51:05 <AndyS> JJC's message from our archives
15:51:06 <ericP> s/gus/guus/
15:51:07 <pchampin> ok thx
15:51:14 <pchampin> I'll look at that in more detail
15:51:20 <gavinc> -.-
15:51:38 <Zakim> -AlexHall
15:51:48 <ericP> ^^lang:en-fr
15:52:00 <Guus> sorry, seem to have problems
15:52:09 <sandro>  "Bob"^^lang:en      "Bob"@en
15:52:16 <pchampin> @gavin: we already have "bob"@en == "bob"@EN
15:52:28 <pchampin> and we don't have to allow lang:EN... could normalize to lang:en
15:52:44 <gavinc> Yes! but .. "1"^^xsd:int != "1"^^xsd:INT
15:52:47 <AndyS> + a prefix declaration.
15:52:53 <ericP> ok, you each get 3billion people...
15:53:00 <pchampin> :-=
15:53:04 <pchampin> :-)
15:53:51 <Zakim> -MacTed
15:53:54 <AndyS> I wasn't aware any proposal was deprecating @
15:54:05 <AndyS> what happens in (shudder) RDF/XML?
15:54:14 <pchampin> @AndyS no, this was not the intent of 3a akaic
15:54:58 <ericP> trix?
15:55:13 <Guus> [my phone apprears to be broken, sorry]
15:55:25 <AndyS> (I have never seen TriX in use)
15:55:37 <pchampin> zakim, unmute me
15:55:37 <Zakim> pchampin should no longer be muted
15:55:47 <sandro> okay, you're close to convincing me to give up Option 3.....
15:56:11 <pchampin> we can normalize @EN to lang:en
15:56:23 <ericP> the parser could do the smackdown on lang:eN-Fr
15:56:30 <pchampin> zakim, mute me
15:56:30 <Zakim> pchampin should now be muted
15:56:43 <gavinc>  "Bob"@en == "Bob"^^lang:en == "Bob"^^lang:en != "Bob"^^lang:EN
15:56:49 <pchampin> yes
15:56:54 <sandro> right.
15:56:55 <gavinc>  "Bob"@en == "Bob"^^lang:en == "Bob"@EN != "Bob"^^lang:EN
15:59:40 <sandro> so maybe we have make the lang-tag -> URI mapping fold to lower case.
15:59:56 <sandro> ivan: i think technically that would be okay.
15:59:59 <AlexHall> IRI equivalence:
16:00:07 <sandro> AndyS: Didn't we ask the OWL people?
16:00:15 <AlexHall> "Applications using IRIs as identity tokens with no relationship to a  protocol MUST use the Simple String Comparison"
16:00:18 <sandro> ivan: Ian Horrocks said it was okay, but maybe that was just in theory.
16:01:56 <sandro> gavin: xpath defines language tags as case insentivie, too.
16:02:22 <sandro> eric: So everyone says they are case insensitive, so normalizing would be okay.
16:03:06 <gavinc> Plain literals have a lexical form and optionally a language tag as defined by [RFC-3066], normalized to lowercase.
16:03:12 <sandro> gavin: rdf spec says "normalized to lowercase"
16:03:59 <AndyS> ... lang:en owl:sameAs eric:HeLLo
16:04:43 <sandro> the proposal here for handling case is: @en == @EN == lang:en   but NOT  lang:EN
16:04:58 <ivan> zh-Hant
16:05:07 <sandro> (not that anyone is arguing in favor of this.)
16:06:26 <swh> I think the @ syntax has to case fold, otherwise it will be too strange
16:07:15 <sandro> for sparql term matching, swh?
16:07:27 <swh> sandro, yes
16:07:50 <swh> I would ban "foo"^^lang:bar in turtle, though that's a little strange
16:07:54 <pchampin> makes the abstract simpler simpler
16:08:05 <pchampin> and seems to make everything else more complex :)
16:08:22 <AndyS> sec  4.5
16:08:29 <gavinc> datatype("bob"@en) does not do something errorish
16:08:48 <pchampin> what does currently datatype("chat"@en) currently return?
16:09:00 <gavinc> nothing, it's an error
16:09:20 <pchampin> ok, so anyway, all options that aim to give a datatype to *every* literal will change SPARQL, right?
16:09:34 <gavinc> Yep!
16:09:52 <pchampin> is there an option on the table that will change SPARQL less than the others?
16:10:02 <gavinc> Yep! Do nothing.
16:10:06 <pchampin> :)
16:10:41 <Zakim> -AndyS
16:11:50 <Guus> [i'm back]
16:12:01 <Guus> q+
16:12:02 <Zakim> +??P30
16:12:10 <AndyS> zakim, ??P30 is me
16:12:10 <Zakim> +AndyS; got it
16:12:11 <sandro> eric: Gavin says the reason for 2d over 1 is so you can do datatype("chat"@en).
16:12:19 <AndyS> zakim, please do not cut me off
16:12:19 <Zakim> I don't understand 'please do not cut me off', AndyS
16:12:41 <sandro> gavin: Folks in existing queries should be using NOT LANG(...)
16:13:05 <AndyS> pchampin - tech answer is SPARQL does not require lang tags ;  practically, impls care about STR() most.
16:13:10 <sandro> eric: there are current queries that will break with this change.
16:13:22 <ericP> FILTER (LANG(?a) != "en-fr")
16:13:35 <sandro> gavinc: but those are funky queries, so it's okay.
16:13:50 <AndyS> then LANG() then LANGMATCHES()
16:13:58 <sandro> eric: yeah, hard to find an example
16:14:19 <sandro> andy: FILTER with DATATYPE then LANG_MATCHES
16:14:59 <pchampin> no, that was already in SPARQL
16:15:02 <sandro> gavinc: We already broke that by removing Plain Literals.
16:15:27 <pchampin> ok
16:15:36 <pchampin> good point
16:15:36 <AlexHall> which was exactly our intent :-)
16:15:42 <sandro> okay.   I'm convinced to support 2d.
16:15:49 <Guus> sandro, you had a question for me which i did not hear and therefore did not answer
16:15:51 <pchampin> I move too
16:16:26 <sandro> (in my heart I still love 3a, but ...    it does seem like there are a lot of complications....)
16:16:33 <ivan> bye everybody
16:16:38 <Zakim> -Ivan
16:17:04 <pchampin> for the record, I'm still convinced that 2d can be interpreted as 3b
16:17:07 <ericP> FILTER( (LANG(?a) != 'cd' | true) (?a -> '1'@ab) (?a -> '2'@cd) (?a -> '3'^^xsd:int))
16:17:10 <ericP> => (?a -> '1'@ab)
16:17:11 <pchampin> if that's any confort to Sandro ;)
16:17:24 <sandro> topic: turtle in html
16:17:29 <Zakim> -ww
16:17:33 <AlexHall> AlexHall has left #rdf-wg
16:18:10 <Zakim> -Guus_Schreiber
16:19:16 <pchampin> nasty!!!
16:20:04 <sandro> <script type="text/javascript">
16:20:04 <sandro> <!--//--><![CDATA[//><!--
16:20:04 <sandro> ...
16:20:04 <sandro> /--><!]]>
16:20:04 <sandro> </script>
16:21:36 <davidwood> Sandro, what convinced you to support 2d?
16:23:16 <sandro> davidwood, Gavin and AndyS pointing out tricky corner cases that I didnt know how to solve well.
16:23:36 <ericP> <script type="text/turtle">
16:23:41 <Zakim> -AndyS
16:24:04 <pchampin> got to go too, bye evrybody
16:24:10 <Zakim> -pchampin
16:24:43 <gavinc>     pre.example script {
16:24:45 <gavinc>         display:block;
16:24:46 <ericP>     pre.example script {
16:24:46 <ericP>         display:block;
16:24:46 <ericP>     }
16:24:46 <gavinc>     }
16:25:12 <sandro> Ciao
16:25:15 <davidwood> sandro, thanks.  I'll read the minutes in detail.
16:25:36 <sandro> davidwood, it was after the meeting ended, so I was just taking notes, not really scribing.
16:26:08 <sandro> davidwood, we finished the meeting way early, then some of us stayed after to talk about language tags.
16:26:20 <davidwood> ah
16:26:28 <davidwood> That's OK.  I have a chat log.
16:26:33 <Zakim> -??P58
16:26:46 <ericP>
16:27:17 <davidwood> ericP: Do you what time you might want to talk this afternoon?
16:27:29 <ericP> 10 mins from now?
16:27:59 <davidwood> ok
16:28:05 <davidwood> Skype or phone?
16:28:42 <ericP> phone's a little easier for me
16:28:48 <davidwood> ok
16:29:00 <ericP> #?
16:29:02 <davidwood> You have my numbers in email
16:29:08 <ericP> cool
16:29:11 <davidwood> +1.540.898.6410
16:37:10 <swh> swh has joined #rdf-wg
16:39:16 <swh> swh has joined #rdf-wg
16:39:32 <Zakim> -gavinc
16:39:33 <Zakim> -Sandro
16:39:35 <Zakim> -EricP
16:39:36 <Zakim> SW_RDFWG()11:00AM has ended
16:39:37 <Zakim> Attendees were +1.650.917.aaaa, gavinc, Guus_Schreiber, Scott_Bauer, AndyS, NickH, zwu2, Peter_Patel-Schneider, Ivan, +1.443.212.aabb, ww, MacTed, Sandro, AlexHall, EricP, AZ,
16:39:40 <Zakim> ... pchampin, Souri
17:07:29 <pchampin> pchampin has left #rdf-wg
17:36:54 <LeeF> LeeF has joined #rdf-wg
18:14:00 <AndyS> AndyS has joined #rdf-wg
18:25:03 <Zakim> Zakim has left #rdf-wg