Chatlog 2011-09-07

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See panel, original RRSAgent log or preview nicely formatted version.

Please justify/explain non-obvious edits to this page, in your "edit summary" text.

01:07:49 <MacTed> MacTed has joined #rdf-wg
06:39:26 <tomayac> tomayac has joined #rdf-wg
06:57:37 <mischat> mischat has joined #rdf-wg
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07:49:17 <AndyS> AndyS has joined #rdf-wg
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08:17:40 <danbri> danbri has joined #rdf-wg
08:46:11 <mischat> mischat has joined #rdf-wg
08:49:10 <danbri_> danbri_ has joined #rdf-wg
08:53:16 <mischat> any head with making http://www.w3.org/2011/08/31-rdf-wg-irc public would be great :)
08:53:30 <mischat> i will bug swh when i see him, he might know ...
08:57:44 <SteveH> SteveH has joined #rdf-wg
09:32:56 <danbri> danbri has joined #rdf-wg
12:19:51 <MacTed> mischat - this is the page that should definitely be public -- http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/meeting/2011-08-31
12:19:51 <MacTed> you get there thru the editable version of the IRC log -- http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/Chatlog_2011-08-31
12:19:51 <MacTed> by clicking the "preview nicely formatted version" link in the page head
12:19:51 <MacTed> they all *appear* to be public, having tested with another browser where I'm not logged in
12:24:03 <mischat_> mischat_ has joined #rdf-wg
12:44:36 <SteveH_> SteveH_ has joined #rdf-wg
13:01:13 <LeeF> LeeF has joined #rdf-wg
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13:11:58 <Scott_Bauer> Scott_Bauer has left #rdf-wg
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13:25:53 <ivan> ivan has joined #rdf-wg
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14:51:05 <ivan> trackbot, start telcon
14:51:07 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
14:51:07 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #rdf-wg
14:51:08 <AZ> AZ has joined #rdf-wg
14:51:09 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 73394
14:51:09 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see SW_RDFWG()11:00AM scheduled to start in 9 minutes
14:51:10 <trackbot> Meeting: RDF Working Group Teleconference
14:51:10 <trackbot> Date: 07 September 2011
14:52:14 <yvesr> anyone using ekiga here? i keep getting 'this passcode is not valid'
14:53:34 <Zakim> SW_RDFWG()11:00AM has now started
14:53:40 <Zakim> +??P7
14:53:41 <Zakim> + +20598aaaa
14:53:53 <yvesr> Zakim, P7 is me
14:53:53 <Zakim> sorry, yvesr, I do not recognize a party named 'P7'
14:53:56 <yvesr> Zakim, ??P7 is me
14:53:56 <Zakim> +yvesr; got it
14:54:18 <yvesr> found - DTMF needs to be set as RFC2833
14:55:15 <Guus> zakim, +20598aaaa is me
14:55:15 <Zakim> +Guus; got it
14:55:19 <AndyS> AndyS has joined #rdf-wg
14:56:01 <Guus> zakim, mute me
14:56:02 <Zakim> Guus should now be muted
14:56:14 <Zakim> + +1.707.861.aabb
14:56:22 <gavinc> Zakim, aabb is me
14:56:22 <Zakim> +gavinc; got it
14:56:27 <Zakim> +Tony
14:56:43 <Scott_Bauer> Zakim, Tony is me
14:56:43 <Zakim> +Scott_Bauer; got it
14:57:05 <Zakim> +davidwood
14:57:32 <ivan> zakim, dial ivan-voip
14:57:32 <Zakim> ok, ivan; the call is being made
14:57:34 <Zakim> +Ivan
14:57:37 <mbrunati> mbrunati has joined #rdf-wg
14:58:26 <Guus> zakim, unmute me
14:58:26 <Zakim> Guus should no longer be muted
14:58:38 <yvesr> Zakim, who is talking?
14:58:49 <Zakim> yvesr, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Guus (24%)
14:59:11 <Zakim> + +33.9.54.07.aacc
14:59:48 <zwu2> zwu2 has joined #rdf-wg
14:59:57 <AZ> zakim, +33.9.54.07.aacc is me
14:59:57 <Zakim> +AZ; got it
15:00:07 <pchampin> pchampin has joined #rdf-wg
15:00:12 <pchampin> pchampin has left #rdf-wg
15:00:15 <Guus> zhe, can you scribe?
15:00:23 <Zakim> +Sandro
15:00:26 <pchampin> pchampin has joined #rdf-wg
15:00:27 <Guus> you're on the list :-)
15:00:49 <Zakim> +??P13
15:00:56 <SteveH> Zakim, ??P13 is [Garlik]
15:00:56 <Zakim> +[Garlik]; got it
15:01:03 <SteveH> Zakim, [Garlik] has SteveH, mischat 
15:01:04 <Zakim> +SteveH, mischat; got it
15:01:09 <mischat_> mischat_ has joined #rdf-wg
15:01:19 <Zakim> +??P15
15:01:24 <Zakim> + +1.617.324.aadd
15:01:46 <ericP> Zakim, aadd is me
15:01:46 <Zakim> +ericP; got it
15:01:51 <Zakim> + +1.443.212.aaee
15:02:02 <AlexHall> AlexHall has joined #rdf-wg
15:02:03 <Zakim> +LeeF
15:02:06 <Guus> zakim, who is here?
15:02:06 <Zakim> On the phone I see Guus, yvesr, gavinc, Scott_Bauer, davidwood, Ivan, AZ, Sandro, [Garlik], pchampin, ericP, +1.443.212.aaee, LeeF
15:02:08 <Zakim> [Garlik] has SteveH, mischat
15:02:09 <Zakim> On IRC I see AlexHall, mischat_, pchampin, zwu2, mbrunati, AZ, Zakim, mischat, Guus, MacTed, ivan, Scott_Bauer, LeeF, SteveH, danbri, RRSAgent, gavinc, trackbot, davidwood, manu,
15:02:12 <Zakim> ... manu1, sandro, yvesr, NickH, ericP
15:02:41 <AndyS> AndyS has joined #rdf-wg
15:02:51 <tomayac> tomayac has joined #rdf-wg
15:03:02 <Zakim> +Thomas
15:03:08 <zwu2> Guus, I am not feeling well today, can I scribe next week?
15:03:17 <zwu2> zakim, code?
15:03:17 <Zakim> the conference code is 73394 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), zwu2
15:04:06 <Zakim> + +1.650.265.aaff
15:04:15 <Zakim> +OpenLink_Software
15:04:23 <zwu2> zakim, +1.650.265.aaff is me
15:04:23 <Zakim> +zwu2; got it
15:04:30 <AlexHall> scribe: alexhall
<AlexHall> regrets: pat, richard, william
15:04:36 <zwu2> Thanks Alex!
15:04:38 <MacTed> Zakim, OpenLink_Software is temporarily me
15:04:38 <Zakim> +MacTed; got it
15:04:40 <MacTed> Zakim, mute me
15:04:40 <Zakim> MacTed should now be muted
15:04:58 <AlexHall> topic: Admin
15:05:05 <Zakim> +??P29
15:05:10 <AndyS> zakim, ??P29 is me
15:05:10 <Zakim> +AndyS; got it
15:05:18 <Zakim> +??P30
15:05:20 <AlexHall> guus: thanks to mischa for fixing minutes, apologies for their lateness
15:05:33 <tomayac> +1 to accept
15:05:34 <mbrunati> zakim, +??P30 is me
15:05:34 <Zakim> sorry, mbrunati, I do not recognize a party named '+??P30'
15:05:35 <AlexHall> ... correct link to minutes is in agenda
15:05:39 <mischat> these are the minutes http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/meeting/2011-08-31
15:05:48 <mbrunati> zakim, ??P30 is me
15:05:48 <Zakim> +mbrunati; got it
15:05:51 <AlexHall> PROPOSED: to accept the minutes from 31 Aug telecon
15:06:16 <AlexHall> RESOLVED: to accept the minutes from 31 Aug telecon
15:06:41 <AlexHall> guus: no pending action items
15:06:53 <AlexHall> ... open items, danbri is not here
15:07:25 <AlexHall> sandro: started conversation, when it's considered stable we can proceed with registering it
15:07:49 <AlexHall> ... not sure what stable means, from w3c perspective could mean final call
15:08:06 <AlexHall> ... could probably proceed before then, probably doesn't matter
15:08:16 <AlexHall> guus: would prefer to proceed now, hearing no objections
15:08:30 <AlexHall> sandro: would like resolution from wg
15:08:47 <AlexHall> ... prepare template, put to vote for a resolution
15:08:58 <AlexHall> ... does anybody have reason to think it's not stable?
15:09:28 <sandro> ACTION: sandro to draft well-known URI template and propose WG resolution that it is "stable" enough for IETF.
15:09:29 <trackbot> Created ACTION-82 - Draft well-known URI template and propose WG resolution that it is "stable" enough for IETF. [on Sandro Hawke - due 2011-09-14].
15:09:40 <sandro> close action-52
15:09:40 <trackbot> ACTION-52 Start conversation on reserving our well-known string (genid) closed
15:09:41 <AlexHall> guus: next item, review PA's comments on SPARQL update protocol
15:09:51 <AlexHall> ... think it's done
15:10:00 <danbri> Hi. I'm in IRC, but I'm not dialing into telecons until I get my Skype dialout fixed (was a payments system problem; allgedly it'll work from tommorrow)
15:10:19 <mischat> no i don't think it was discussed either 
15:10:33 <AlexHall> ... was not discussed last week, and PA is not here so we need to keep it open
15:11:26 <AlexHall> guus: need to change the date on action 73, don't need to track it every week
15:11:34 <sandro> action-73?
15:11:34 <trackbot> ACTION-73 -- Fabien Gandon to implement http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/meeting/2011-08-03#resolution_2 -- due 2011-08-24 -- OPEN
15:11:34 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/actions/73
15:12:10 <AlexHall> ... action 77 is still open, propose to discuss as part of today's RDF datasets agenda item
15:13:16 <AlexHall> guus: Last admin item, next telecon is 14 Sep, back on normal schedule
15:13:18 <Souri> Souri has joined #RDF-WG
<AlexHall> topic: Public comments
15:13:40 <AlexHall> guus: need to agree on policy for who is responsible for responding to public comments
15:13:43 <Zakim> + +1.603.897.aagg
15:13:46 <gavinc> Timely too :\
15:13:54 <Souri> zakim, aagg is me
15:13:54 <Zakim> +Souri; got it
15:13:56 <AlexHall> ... traditionally editor is responsible for responding
15:14:09 <AlexHall> ... at the very least, each comment must be politely acknowledged
15:14:38 <ivan> q+
15:15:59 <ivan> ack ivan
15:16:03 <AlexHall> ... suggestion is to think of how each comment impacts the text, point out specific passages or ask for specific changes
15:16:34 <AlexHall> ivan: number of commenters were unhappy with current policy of different mailing lists for comments vs. working group
15:17:02 <AlexHall> ... personally don't have a problem with this, but should we change it?
15:17:17 <AlexHall> guus: administratively, it must be done this way.
15:17:28 <AlexHall> ivan: rdfa working group has only one mailing list
15:17:44 <AlexHall> ... supposing it's doable, do we want to make that change?
15:18:09 <AlexHall> andy: how does rdfa formally track comments if they're all on the same list?
15:18:24 <AlexHall> ... one advantage of separate lists is that it's more convenient for tracking comments
15:18:44 <davidwood> +1 to Andy.  The separate comments list seems to make it easier to track comments.
15:18:45 <AlexHall> ivan: rdfa wg manages by having a very devoted chair who spends a lot of time
15:19:08 <Zakim> -ericP
15:19:14 <AlexHall> ... understand the advantage
15:19:15 <sandro> sandro has changed the topic to: RDF-WG -- http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/ -- 2011-09-07 Agenda: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/Meetings:Telecon2011.09.07
15:19:26 <Zakim> +ericP
15:19:52 <AlexHall> andy: can't recall exact setup of sparql lists, but wg list is for more conversation and chitchat while public list is for formal comments
15:20:10 <AlexHall> ivan: happy to leave it as it is as long as there are no strong objections from wg.
15:20:43 <ivan> s/ivan/guus/
15:20:54 <AlexHall> topic: FTF planning
15:21:00 <mischat> http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/F2F2
15:21:23 <AlexHall> guus: 8 or 9 at Boston location, several more remotely at bbc
15:21:37 <AlexHall> ... please add your name to one of these lists
15:21:50 <gavinc> Yay for a 2nd Europen F2F ;)
15:22:16 <AlexHall> ... BBC might have more attendees than Boston, might affect scheduling issues (earlier start time in Boston)
15:22:59 <gavinc> ... ... ... Uh. Right, that sucks
15:23:04 <AlexHall> sandro: looks like more people at BBC location, might make more sense to make it there instead
15:23:14 <NickH> haha, if there are morepeople in London, then Boston is the 'second site'?
15:23:34 <yvesr> sandro, although we can't accomodate a lot more people at the bbc location (the room we have is relatively small)
15:23:34 <AlexHall> david: can't personally make it to european location
15:23:56 <Scott_Bauer> I've also made travel plans for 
15:24:00 <Scott_Bauer> Boston
15:24:32 <AlexHall> andy: i know it's harder having a split site, but we get more people this way
15:24:36 <Zakim> -ericP
15:24:46 <LeeF> Echo the concerns about a two-site meeting without video 
15:24:47 <Zakim> +ericP
15:24:50 <AlexHall> gavin: noticed that we don't seem to have video conferencing setup, is that correct?
15:25:04 <Zakim> +??P20
15:25:11 <NickH> zakim, ??P20 is me
15:25:11 <Zakim> +NickH; got it
15:25:19 <AlexHall> yves: that's correct, we don't currently have videoconf at BBC, can investigate
15:25:27 <AlexHall> ... also, cannot accommodate many more people
15:25:53 <AlexHall> guus: seems we will end up with a split meeting, need to come up with an agenda to accomodate both sites
15:25:53 <Zakim> -LeeF
15:25:56 <LeeF> oops
15:26:02 <LeeF> i hung up, but intended to say that i'd be happy to do 7am
15:26:05 <LeeF> "happy"
15:26:09 <AlexHall> ... 5 hour time difference, is 8am start in Boston OK?
15:26:14 <FabGandon> FabGandon has joined #rdf-wg
15:26:36 <Zakim> +LeeF
15:27:32 <AlexHall> eric: we could possibly open the doors early
15:28:24 <AlexHall> guus: breakout groups early in UK, afternoon in US
15:28:52 <AlexHall> ... common meeting in morning (US)/afternoon (UK)
15:29:14 <AlexHall> david: might be hard to organize breakouts by geography instead of interest
15:29:39 <AlexHall> ... could we overlap the breakouts?
15:30:25 <sandro> So, I've just re-researved MIT's H.320/H.323 video conferencing room, hoping a matching BBC facility will be available.
15:30:27 <AlexHall> yves: can keep the building open, only possible problem is that lunch is already arranged
15:31:08 <AlexHall> guus: proposed schedule: UK breakouts 10am-noon, lunch noon-1pm, meeting 1pm-7pm
15:31:28 <AlexHall> ... US meeting 8am-2pm, lunch, then breakouts
15:32:12 <AlexHall> sandro: had previously released video conferencing room, will re-reserve
15:32:36 <AlexHall> action: guus and david to come up with agenda which works for US and UK locatinos
15:32:37 <trackbot> Created ACTION-83 - And david to come up with agenda which works for US and UK locatinos [on Guus Schreiber - due 2011-09-14].
15:33:01 <sandro> Hmmmm.  Ekiga claims to support H.323, so yeah, people could do it on desktops.
15:33:26 <AlexHall> guus: discussed in august what would be the main meeting objectives
15:34:16 <AlexHall> ... making substantial progress on multi-graph issues is the major objective
15:34:27 <mischat> does that include all of the graph terminology stuff ?
15:34:35 <AlexHall> ... given that other issues are making reasonable progress
15:34:45 <Zakim> +Thomas.a
15:35:08 <AlexHall> ... yes, this includes the terminology, sandro is waiting for progress on multigraph before moving on with terminology
15:35:22 <AlexHall> topic: Liason with Provenance WG
15:35:51 <AlexHall> guus: in august we were in contact with Luc, one of the chairs of the provenance wg
15:36:08 <AlexHall> ... trying to set up a common time
15:36:39 <AlexHall> ... their telecon is the same as ours but on thursday
15:36:59 <Zakim> -ericP
15:37:00 <AlexHall> ... we will meet after their telecon on 15 Sep (at 12:15pm eastern)
15:37:09 <AlexHall> ... who in this group can or will attend?
15:37:10 <Zakim> +ericP
15:37:39 <AZ> I want to attend
15:37:39 <ivan> probably
15:38:04 <Scott_Bauer> probably, need to rearrange a meeting.
15:38:11 <MacTed> I plan to join
15:38:13 <AndyS> Interested ... no specific issues ... want to understand deeply
15:38:17 <davidwood> I will be there
15:38:19 <gavinc> I plan to join
15:38:24 <sandro> I'm inclined to attend.
15:38:25 <SteveH> Would like to be there, but have clashes
15:38:51 <pchampin> not sure yet, I'll have to check
15:38:55 <AlexHall> ... 5 or 6 volunteers in IRC, would also like richard to attend
15:39:05 <mischat> the provenance people only really seem to care about named graphs 
15:39:27 <AlexHall> action: guus to contact Richard to ask to attend provenance WG liason call
15:39:27 <trackbot> Created ACTION-84 - Contact Richard to ask to attend provenance WG liason call [on Guus Schreiber - due 2011-09-14].
15:39:54 <AlexHall> action: guus to distribute agenda for provenance wg call
15:39:54 <Zakim> -AZ
15:39:54 <trackbot> Created ACTION-85 - Distribute agenda for provenance wg call [on Guus Schreiber - due 2011-09-14].
15:40:50 <Zakim> +AZ
15:41:01 <AlexHall> topic: Status of RDF Dataset proposal
15:41:13 <mischat> we used to have this page http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/TF-Graphs re: Graph's TF
15:41:21 <AlexHall> guus: there was discussion between PA and richard on dataset proposal
15:41:30 <AZ> zakim, mute me
15:41:31 <Zakim> AZ should now be muted
15:41:32 <AlexHall> ... didn't seem to make its way into the wiki page
15:42:19 <Zakim> -ericP
15:42:25 <gavinc> zakim, mute me
15:42:25 <Zakim> gavinc should now be muted
15:42:32 <Zakim> +ericP
15:42:42 <AlexHall> pchampin: have made progress on understanding each other's motivations and are slowly coming towards consensus
15:42:53 <AlexHall> ... but have not arrived at agreement yet
15:43:30 <AlexHall> guus: can't make progress on this today, will go back on agenda for next week
15:43:42 <ivan> q+
15:43:44 <AlexHall> topic: ISSUE-12 language-tagged literals
15:44:07 <AlexHall> guus: message from pat on varieties of tagged literals
15:44:14 <AlexHall> ... not much discussion on this yet
15:44:21 <mischat> iirc Pat was asked asked last week to put together a review of the various proposals
15:44:32 <mischat>  s/asked//
15:44:40 <AlexHall> ivan: questionnaire is not yet open because some questions about final wording
15:44:55 <AlexHall> ... think it's mostly OK
15:45:14 <AlexHall> ... this is a personal questionnaire, not a formal vote on behalf of the companies
15:45:21 <AlexHall> ... also a public questionnaire
15:45:51 <AlexHall> ... sandro made note right before the call that it's set up as a radio button form, meaning only one choice
15:46:10 <AlexHall> ... other alternative is a more open-ended form
15:46:48 <AlexHall> ... don't want to open it up too much or this could keep dragging on
15:47:10 <AlexHall> guus: any preference from wg on whether poll should be single-choice or multi-select?
15:47:21 <AlexHall> ???: personally prefer the preferences form, gives more nuance
15:47:31 <ivan> s/???/Guus/
15:47:41 <Zakim> -ericP
15:47:53 <Zakim> +ericP
15:48:04 <AlexHall> sandro: have a first choice and second choice and a bunch that i really don't like, no way to express that in current form
15:48:05 <ivan> q+
15:48:27 <davidwood> ack ivan
15:48:57 <AlexHall> ivan: i proposed this poll last week, because without taking sides, all arguments have been extensively aired and we're going in circles now
15:49:31 <AlexHall> ... try to get a clear view of whether there's a single solution that's obviously a winner, don't want this to drag on for months
15:50:29 <AndyS> Why are we discussing the poll when the WG can't see the form?
15:51:10 <AlexHall> david: lee asked sandro for more details on his mailing list comment, can we discuss now?
15:51:34 <ericP> ivan, worth quickly opening it as an exhibit?
15:51:47 <sandro> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-wg/2011Sep/0019.html   Pat's Email
15:51:50 <AlexHall> sandro: poll is only visible to staff and chairs, same text as pat's email but in radio button form
15:52:10 <AlexHall> ... my comments are relevant to pat's email
15:53:19 <Zakim> -ericP
15:53:20 <AlexHall> sandro: of all the option 2 styles, seems that if I have "foo" with different tags then i have 2 literals with same lexical and datatypes
15:53:34 <Zakim> +ericP
15:53:55 <AlexHall> ... how do i tell the difference between these in a system that only supports RDF 1.0-style literals?
15:54:01 <pchampin> @sandro: well, yes, but they differ by their LANG
15:54:46 <AlexHall> sandro: lang appears in sparql, but it doesn't appear in a serialization or api
15:55:58 <AlexHall> ... thought the goal of this was to simplify things by giving everything a datatype
15:56:27 <AlexHall> pchampin: spirit of #2 proposals is that we still have 2 styles of literals: those with tag and those without
15:56:50 <AndyS> q+ to note the concerns about 3* in the email discussions
15:56:53 <AlexHall> ... most people didn't like idea of open-ended universe of language datatypes
15:57:07 <AlexHall> sandro: what is the advantage of option 2?
15:58:07 <AlexHall> pchampin: everything is given a datatype, but still has distinct lexical and language parts
15:58:35 <ericP> so option 2 leaves us with two literal types?
15:58:40 <Zakim> -ericP
15:58:43 <AlexHall> sandro: seems a trivial change, you're just giving a little bit of extra information
15:58:50 <sandro> sandro: I just don't see how Option 2 is an improvement over what we have now.
15:58:51 <Zakim> +ericP
15:59:06 <AlexHall> andy: concerns about giving URIs to language datatypes
15:59:22 <AlexHall> ... doesn't play well with existing subtype behavior
15:59:36 <AlexHall> ... concerns about option 3 datatypes were discussed on the mailing list, but doesn't seem to be reflected in the poll.
16:00:05 <mischat> zakim, who is making noise ?
16:00:16 <Zakim> mischat, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: 21 (21%), Sandro (27%), pchampin (47%), Ivan (8%)
16:00:55 <sandro> sandro: I understand language tags to not have a strict hierarchy, so we shouldn't use datatype hierarchy.
16:01:09 <AlexHall> pchampin: subtypes in this context means value space of language datatype is subtype of tagged literals
16:01:55 <pchampin> s/subtype/subset/
<AlexHall> pchampin: rdf:TaggedLiteral value space would contain all the <txt, tag> pairs
<AlexHall> ... but its lexical space would be empty
<AlexHall> ... rdf:TaggedLiteral/fr would only contain the <txt, "fr"> pairs
<AlexHall> ... its lexical space would contain all the strings txt
<AlexHall> ... and its L2V would be txt -> <txt,"fr">
<AlexHall> ... Simiar to owl:real having values but no lexical space;
<AlexHall> ... xsd:decimal having a subset of owl:real, and a lexical space and L2V for that subset.
16:01:50 <AndyS>  IIRC: rdf:Lang-en owl:sameAs ns:name => looses lang info :: must be fixed URIs -> special.
16:02:31 <AlexHall> sandro: sounds like you're saying these subtypes are implicit but can't be used directly
16:02:48 <AndyS> What is DATATYPE("foo"@en) in 3* ?
16:03:27 <AlexHall> ivan: option 3 introduces lots of new datatypes to the picture, expect that inference engines would not like this
16:04:15 <Zakim> -ericP
16:04:23 <Zakim> +ericP
16:04:29 <AlexHall> ivan: owl-rl e.g. would have problems with axiomatic triples because it needs a triple for each type it knows about
16:05:06 <pchampin> q+ to talk about option 4
16:05:24 <gavinc> zakim, unmute me
16:05:24 <Zakim> gavinc should no longer be muted
16:05:50 <AlexHall> andy: language tags in 1.1 will be treated specially no matter what, option 3 buries it in the URI, just moving where the special casing occurs
16:06:03 <AlexHall> ... now you have to parse the URIs to extract the language tag information
16:06:05 <gavinc> langmatches is going to be defined really really really funckily for option 3
16:06:33 <AlexHall> sandro: people who care about language tags will always have to treat them specially, option 3 allows people who don't care about them to ignore them
16:07:10 <AlexHall> andy: option 2 puts it in the syntax, not in the datatype
16:07:38 <SteveH> I think sandro has a point
16:07:45 <AlexHall> sandro: don't understand how the mechanism in option 2 is supposed to work, main basis for not liking that
16:08:25 <AlexHall> ... i see options 3 and 4 simplifying application code for lots of people, not so for option 2
16:09:23 <Zakim> -ericP
16:09:29 <gavinc> really, the iri rdf:langTag-zh-cmn-a-bbb-a-ccc is an improvement? :\
16:09:37 <Zakim> +ericP
16:09:51 <sandro> guus: Am I right that option 2 has aestheic advantage, but not much of an advantage for implementors.
16:09:59 <AlexHall> guus: have a feeling that the main advantage of option 2 is an aesthetic advantage, is that true?
16:10:24 <AlexHall> andy: don't think any of them have a clear technical advantage, everything requires special handling of some sort
16:11:09 <AlexHall> sandro: would like to eliminate branching of literal handling in apis
16:11:20 <FabGandon> FabGandon has left #rdf-wg
16:12:06 <AlexHall> gavin: datatype iris for moderately complex language tags are going to be a pain
16:12:53 <AlexHall> ivan: need final decision on what form to make the poll
16:13:30 <zwu2> Ivan, you worry about inference blow up, how many language tags do you think there will be?
16:13:36 <MacTed> +1 example for each!  a concrete thing will vary with each proposal ... show the variations?
16:14:02 <gavinc> API (RDF Interfaces) in Python for Literal ;) https://github.com/norcalrdf/pymantic/blob/master/pymantic/primitives.py#L203
16:14:19 <sandro> action: sandro to provide example for how code is simpler with language-tag options 3 and 4 vs 1 and 2.
16:14:19 <trackbot> Created ACTION-86 - Provide example for how code is simpler with language-tag options 3 and 4 vs 1 and 2. [on Sandro Hawke - due 2011-09-14].
16:14:43 <AlexHall> ivan: will need to change poll. is 2 weeks ok?
16:14:56 <zwu2> thanks Alex!
16:14:56 <AlexHall> guus: close poll night before telecon 2 weeks from now
<AlexHall> guus: Meeting adjourned.
16:15:02 <Zakim> -Ivan
16:15:03 <Zakim> -davidwood
16:15:04 <Zakim> -NickH
16:15:05 <Zakim> -MacTed
16:15:07 <Zakim> -AZ
16:15:08 <Zakim> -yvesr
16:15:09 <Zakim> -[Garlik]
16:15:09 <Zakim> -gavinc
16:15:10 <Zakim> -Sandro
16:15:11 <Zakim> -mbrunati
16:15:13 <Zakim> -zwu2
16:15:15 <Zakim> -pchampin
16:15:17 <Zakim> -AndyS
16:15:19 <Zakim> -Souri
16:15:25 <Zakim> -ericP
16:15:30 <Zakim> -Scott_Bauer
16:16:09 <Zakim> -Guus
16:16:16 <Zakim> -LeeF
16:16:21 <gavinc> rrsagent, make records public
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