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14:57:20 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #rdf-wg 14:57:20 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/05/16-rdf-wg-irc 14:57:22 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world 14:57:22 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #rdf-wg 14:57:24 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 73394 14:57:24 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see SW_RDFWG()11:00AM scheduled to start in 3 minutes 14:57:25 <trackbot> Meeting: RDF Working Group Teleconference 14:57:25 <trackbot> Date: 16 May 2012 14:57:54 <Zakim> SW_RDFWG()11:00AM has now started 14:58:01 <Zakim> +pfps 14:58:57 <ivan> zakim, dial ivan-voip 14:58:57 <Zakim> ok, ivan; the call is being made 14:59:00 <Zakim> +Ivan 14:59:03 <Zakim> +??P1 14:59:19 <pchampin> pchampin has joined #rdf-wg 14:59:23 <ivan> scribenick: pfps 14:59:28 <pchampin> zakim, who is on the phone? 14:59:28 <Zakim> On the phone I see pfps, Ivan, ??P1 14:59:32 <ivan> scribe: Peter 14:59:33 <Zakim> + +1.707.861.aaaa 14:59:35 <pchampin> zakim, ??P1 is me 14:59:35 <Zakim> +pchampin; got it 14:59:43 <gavinc> Zakim, aaaa is me 14:59:43 <Zakim> +gavinc; got it 14:59:47 <davidwood> Zakim, please let me in. 14:59:47 <Zakim> I don't understand 'please let me in', davidwood 15:00:27 <Zakim> +davidwood 15:00:39 <PatH> PatH has joined #rdf-wg 15:00:47 <Zakim> + +1.603.897.aabb 15:00:58 <Arnaud> Arnaud has joined #rdf-wg 15:01:09 <AndyS> AndyS has joined #rdf-wg 15:01:13 <Zakim> + +31.20.598.aacc 15:01:23 <sandro> sandro has changed the topic to: RDF Agenda http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/Meetings:Telecon2012.05.16 15:01:26 <Guus> zakim, +31 is me 15:01:26 <Zakim> +Guus; got it 15:01:28 <Souri> Souri has joined #rdf-wg 15:01:36 <gavinc> Zakim, who is talking? 15:01:37 <Zakim> +Sandro 15:01:46 <Zakim> gavinc, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: pfps (52%), pchampin (35%) 15:01:53 <Zakim> + +1.408.996.aadd 15:02:04 <Zakim> + +1.617.324.aaee 15:02:15 <ericP> Zakim, aaee is me 15:02:15 <Zakim> +ericP; got it 15:02:35 <ivan> zakim, aadd is Arnaud 15:02:35 <Zakim> +Arnaud; got it 15:02:40 <Guus> zakim, who is here? 15:02:40 <Zakim> On the phone I see pfps, Ivan, pchampin, gavinc, davidwood, +1.603.897.aabb, Guus, Sandro, Arnaud, ericP 15:02:44 <Zakim> On IRC I see Souri, AndyS, Arnaud, PatH, pchampin, Zakim, RRSAgent, pfps, Guus, gavinc, mischat, MacTed, danbri, LeeF, NickH, ivan, SteveH, manu1, davidwood, yvesr, manu, trackbot, 15:02:47 <Zakim> ... sandro, ericP 15:02:49 <Zakim> +??P12 15:02:54 <AndyS> zakim, ??P12 is me 15:02:54 <Zakim> +AndyS; got it 15:03:02 <Souri> zakim, aabb is me 15:03:02 <Zakim> +Souri; got it 15:03:16 <Souri> zakim, who is here? 15:03:16 <Zakim> On the phone I see pfps, Ivan, pchampin, gavinc, davidwood, Souri, Guus, Sandro, Arnaud, ericP, AndyS 15:03:18 <Zakim> On IRC I see Souri, AndyS, Arnaud, PatH, pchampin, Zakim, RRSAgent, pfps, Guus, gavinc, mischat, MacTed, danbri, LeeF, NickH, ivan, SteveH, manu1, davidwood, yvesr, manu, trackbot, 15:03:18 <Zakim> ... sandro, ericP 15:03:22 <pfps> Topic: Admin 15:03:27 <Zakim> + +1.617.553.aaff 15:03:31 <LeeF> zakim, aaff is me 15:03:31 <Zakim> +LeeF; got it 15:03:46 <LeeF> hi, guus! 15:03:47 <Zakim> +OpenLink_Software 15:03:57 <MacTed> Zakim, OpenLink_Software is temporarily me 15:03:58 <Zakim> +MacTed; got it 15:03:59 <MacTed> Zakim, mute me 15:03:59 <Zakim> MacTed should now be muted 15:04:01 <pfps> PROPOSED: accept the minutes of the 9 May telecon 15:04:06 <pfps> pfps: +1 15:04:10 <ivan> +1 15:04:13 <pchampin> +1 15:04:15 <PatH> PatH will be just on IRC until we get past the turtles. 15:04:21 <pfps> RESOLVED: accept the minutes of the 9 May telecon: 15:04:22 <PatH> _1 by the way 15:04:31 <PatH> +1 whoops 15:04:50 <pfps> Action Items 15:04:50 <trackbot> Sorry, bad ACTION syntax 15:05:02 <tbaker> tbaker has joined #rdf-wg 15:05:10 <pfps> guus: action 169 done 15:05:10 <Zakim> +??P20 15:05:13 <danbri> zakim, ??P20 is danbri 15:05:13 <Zakim> +danbri; got it 15:05:27 <ivan> ivan has left #rdf-wg 15:05:34 <gavinc> ACTION-167? 15:05:36 <Zakim> +??P21 15:05:40 <Zakim> +Thomas_Baker (was ??P21) 15:05:43 <ivan> ivan has joined #rdf-wg 15:05:43 <ivan> ivan has left #rdf-wg 15:05:52 <AlexHall> AlexHall has joined #rdf-wg 15:06:23 <ivan> ivan has joined #rdf-wg 15:06:33 <Zakim> + +1.443.212.aagg 15:06:40 <AlexHall> zakim, aagg is me 15:06:40 <Zakim> +AlexHall; got it 15:06:43 <gavinc> Overcome by events 15:06:49 <pfps> guus: status of action 167? 15:06:58 <pfps> gavin: done! 15:07:13 <zwu2> zwu2 has joined #rdf-wg 15:07:20 <zwu2> zakim, code? 15:07:20 <Zakim> the conference code is 73394 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:firstname.lastname@example.org), zwu2 15:07:52 <danbri> regrets for next week from me, I'll be teaching at eswc summer school 15:07:53 <pfps> david: we need a new scribe list 15:08:14 <Zakim> + +1.650.265.aahh 15:08:26 <pfps> guus: need to update on who is attending the call 15:08:40 <pfps> ACTION david: update scribe list 15:08:40 <trackbot> Created ACTION-171 - Update scribe list [on David Wood - due 2012-05-23]. 15:08:43 <zwu2> zakim, +1.650.265.aahh is me 15:08:43 <Zakim> +zwu2; got it 15:09:09 <pfps> guus: next meeting is next week 15:09:27 <pfps> Topic: Turtle LC decision 15:09:38 <pfps> guus: there was some discussion on grammar rules 15:10:22 <gavinc> [ <p> <o> . ] 15:10:36 <pfps> gavin: issue 19 - allow top-level blank nodes 15:10:37 <gavinc> [ <p> <o> . ] <p> <o> . 15:11:05 <pfps> gavin: agreement from a year ago, but the change was apparently lost, now regained 15:11:20 <pfps> guus: no dissent seen, any discussion now? 15:11:53 <PatH> What is their scope? Should make this very clear. 15:12:18 <PatH> Im guessing the document. 15:12:22 <pfps> gavin: this was resolved quite some time ago, this discussion is just a reminder 15:12:27 <PatH> OK. 15:12:47 <pfps> pfps: the scope is just like any other blank node, the graph 15:13:05 <gavinc> @prefix <example> 15:13:07 <gavinc> @prefix <example> . 15:13:09 <pfps> gavin: null prefix issue 15:13:21 <gavinc> <bob> knows <alice> 15:13:27 <gavinc> exampleknows 15:13:59 <pfps> gavin: adding bare words to Turtle is a big change 15:14:00 <LeeF> I'm against barewords in turtle. cygri said he was too 15:14:05 <AlexHall> if i say "prefix foo: <bar>." -- is the prefix "foo" or "foo:"? (i.e. is the colon part of the prefix?) 15:14:16 <Souri> me too (against that is) 15:14:22 <ericP> i'd say that the key is the empty string instead of NULL 15:14:43 <gavinc> @vocab <asdf> . 15:14:46 <pfps> gavin: if this happens, then it should be done in some other way, for example, with a different keyword 15:14:46 <sandro> gavinc: Maybe use @vocab for this kind of thing 15:15:02 <pfps> gavin: one reason to do this is to be more like schema.org 15:15:24 <pfps> guus: most people agree with Gavin 15:15:53 <pfps> sandro: I was disagreeing, but no longer, and @vocab would be the way to go, if we do go 15:16:04 <sandro> (or at least seems reasonable.) 15:16:19 <pfps> gavin: no problem with @vocab as an extension 15:16:32 <pfps> gavin: nothing in document (yet) 15:16:47 <pfps> david: how does schema.org fit in? 15:17:08 <danbri> q+ re microdata/rdfa 15:17:12 <pfps> gavin: schema.org (actually microdata) treat bare words as attaching to some vocabulary 15:17:25 <pfps> gavin: discussion with schema.org might result in some change 15:17:34 <sandro> q+ to talk about "extensions to turtle"/"punting down the road" 15:17:43 <pfps> dan: schema.org is the only use of microdata 15:17:55 <pfps> dan: rdfa 1.1 light is very close to schema.org 15:18:21 <pfps> dan: schema.org may accept rdfa 1.1 light, which may reduce use of microdata 15:18:36 <sandro> ack danbri 15:18:36 <Zakim> danbri, you wanted to discuss microdata/rdfa 15:18:38 <danbri> yup, just don't worry too heavily about microdata 15:18:41 <pfps> guus: it looks as if gavin's decision is fine 15:18:48 <danbri> (it is what it is; i don't expect it to change a great deal) 15:19:21 <pfps> sandro: Turtle isn't going to have extensions, so talk about that won't do 15:19:45 <pfps> gavin: But there is not yet an error conformance for Turtle 15:19:54 <sandro> (me said that much more softly than it was transcribed!) 15:20:48 <pfps> gavin: little support for BASE and PREFIX with out @ 15:21:13 <pfps> gavin: to align with SPARQL we would have to allow any-case 15:21:25 <AndyS> And 'a' 15:21:33 <pfps> gavin: right now @base has to be all lower case 15:21:47 <gavinc> true and false are also lower case 15:21:49 <sandro> gavin: In turtle, @prefix is lowercase 15:21:57 <pfps> david: WG decided to align Turtle and SPARQL where possible 15:22:43 <pfps> Sandro: but that was about aligning graph parts, so this is only in the spirit of the decision 15:22:52 <Zakim> -zwu2 15:23:27 <pfps> guus: I would like this to be a feature at risk, but there has to be a feature to remove if so 15:23:36 <Zakim> +zwu2 15:23:47 <pfps> gavin: do we need a new LC for conformance anyway? 15:24:00 <pfps> ivan: then we can't do last call 15:24:07 <gavinc> http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/rdf/raw-file/default/rdf-turtle/index.html#sec-conformance 15:24:14 <PatH> pfps, say 'naked words' 15:24:27 <pfps> sandro: procedurally possible, but not a good idea 15:24:42 <pfps> gavin: no test suite 15:24:56 <pfps> sandro: don't need a test suite 15:25:01 <sandro> sandro: it's not appropriate to go to LC planning on a second LC2 15:25:56 <pfps> gavin: section 9 includes the test suite by reference, so I thought that that was part of the document 15:26:29 <pfps> sandro: normally conformance is the design, not the test suit 15:26:41 <pfps> sandro: passing the test suite does not pass conformance 15:27:10 <ericP> -> http://www.w3.org/TR/rdf-sparql-query/#conformance SPARQL Conformance 15:27:11 <Arnaud> well, it may 15:27:29 <ivan> zakim, who is noisy? 15:27:40 <Zakim> ivan, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: pfps (50%), Sandro (9%), ericP (78%) 15:28:00 <pfps> eric: SPARQL has a very short conformance section 15:28:08 <pfps> sandro: which version? 15:28:20 <pfps> eric: see above 15:28:39 <pfps> guus: so we should put something like that in the document 15:28:56 <pfps> eric: I can rewrite the conformance section 15:29:56 <pfps> sandro: turtle test suite is in the wrong place - it needs to be a different directory 15:30:08 <ivan> +1 to sandro 15:30:31 <pfps> eric: the test suite is an accompanying document 15:31:06 <pfps> sandro: RDF 2004 has a TR test suite, but that isn't current practice 15:31:44 <pfps> eric: what about calling it a set of examples? 15:32:16 <pfps> sandro: examples linking to files is good, and this can be in TR space 15:32:52 <sandro> Yes, Gavin, I see http://www.w3.org/TR/turtle/tests/ .... :-( 15:33:07 <pfps> eric: test suites are finallized fairly early 15:33:38 <pfps> ivan: no, they can even grow after REC, just need something frozen for process 15:33:57 <pfps> guus: can we defer this until later? 15:34:01 <ericP> sure, we'll be about to go to LC for every 15:34:04 <ericP> ever 15:34:28 <pfps> sandro: LC doesn't need all the details of the test suite 15:34:47 <pfps> gavin: what to do about BASE and PREFIX? 15:35:07 <pfps> guus: feature at risk, to obviate the need for a second last call 15:35:16 <AndyS> Exactly as SPARQL? 15:35:33 <pfps> guus: gavin, is this OK by you 15:36:04 <pfps> gavin: it is partly a matter of readability - doesn't matter for SPARQL 15:36:23 <pfps> andy: SPARQL update alllows redefining prefixes 15:36:38 <pfps> gavin: can you see the declarations in long documents? 15:37:30 <sandro> STRAWPOLL: Add an AT RISK feature to Turtle, which gives SPARQL-like alternatives to @prefix and @base, namely case-insensitive PREFIX and BASE, with no period at the end of those lines. 15:37:48 <pfps> pfps: no period? 15:38:02 <pfps> andy: SPARQL has no . at end of line 15:38:14 <gavinc> -0.999 15:38:26 <pfps> david: I want consistency 15:39:05 <pfps> andy: either SPARQL or Turtle 15:39:19 <pfps> david: so no @ then no . ?? 15:39:35 <pfps> sandro: that's as per the straw poll 15:39:51 <gavinc> pReFiX prefix <a> PrEfIx prefix2: <b> @prefix :prefix3 <c> . 15:40:06 <pfps> guus: that's ugly 15:40:18 <sandro> david: This would not break any old turtle. 15:41:10 <ericP> obfuscated turtle contest? 15:41:16 <sandro> So you can have ONE text you cut/paste in SPARQL *and* TURTLE. 15:41:40 <pfps> david: only useful for compatability, otherwise useless 15:42:10 <pfps> gavin: but SPARQL doesn't allow prefixes throughout, which produces a subtle issue 15:43:00 <pfps> sandro: prefixes in middle is bad practice, but this allows one prefix stuff for both SPARQL and Turtle 15:43:20 <pfps> guus: time for strawpoll 15:43:23 <sandro> STRAWPOLL: Add an AT RISK feature to Turtle, which gives SPARQL-like alternatives to @prefix and @base, namely case-insensitive PREFIX and BASE, with no period at the end of those lines. 15:43:27 <sandro> +1 15:43:29 <ivan> +1 15:43:38 <MacTed> +0 15:43:44 <pfps> -0, as I'll be against it later 15:43:44 <gavinc> -0.7 ... I'm a bit more convinced 15:43:48 <ericP> +1 15:43:54 <AndyS> +0.2 15:43:54 <davidwood> +0 15:43:57 <danbri> +0 15:44:00 <Souri> -0 (refrain) 15:44:02 <Arnaud> 0 15:44:03 <pchampin> +0 15:44:05 <tbaker> 0 15:44:07 <SteveH> 0 15:44:17 <zwu2> +0 15:44:27 <AlexHall> +0 15:44:35 <pfps> guus: even so, let's do a feature at risk, because it can be removed later 15:44:58 <pfps> guus: OK, gavin? 15:45:03 <pfps> gavin: ok, ok, grumble, grumble 15:45:24 <pfps> gavin: but I'll live 15:45:26 <sandro> RESOLVED: Add an AT RISK feature to Turtle, which gives SPARQL-like alternatives to @prefix and @base, namely case-insensitive PREFIX and BASE, with no period at the end of those lines. 15:45:44 <pfps> guus: grammar rule issues? 15:45:53 <gavinc> http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/rdf/raw-file/default/rdf-turtle/index.html#sec-grammar-grammar 15:46:28 <pfps> gavin: turtle grammar should be updated 15:46:55 <pfps> gavin: turtle grammar has been updated to reflect discussions 15:47:04 <pfps> eric: what about yakker work 15:47:34 <pfps> gavin: turtle isn't as complex as sparql, so it doesn't need all that 15:47:40 <pfps> eric: ok 15:48:08 <pfps> guus: let's delay for a week and schedule a formal decision next week 15:48:13 <pfps> guus: OK? 15:48:16 <sandro> q+ to make little grammar comment 15:48:30 <AndyS> Do remove the [*s] numbering style - it will change :-( 15:48:46 <pfps> gavin: SPARQL form prefixes only without the dot? 15:48:56 <pfps> guus: yes, that was the proposal 15:49:23 <pfps> gavin: numbering will go 15:50:05 <pfps> gavin: hyperlinks might be possible, linking to the name of the production 15:50:30 <pfps> andy: SPARQL isn't at LC, so there is a slight risk 15:51:13 <pfps> guus: thanks to the editors 15:51:22 <pfps> Topic: RDF Concepts WD 15:51:44 <pfps> guus: richard is not here, but there is a list to look at 15:52:02 <pfps> guus: pending review issues 15:52:04 <ivan> -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-wg/2012May/0222.html Richard's mail 15:52:31 <pfps> guus: issue-66 XSD datatype maps 15:52:38 <ivan> Issue-66? 15:52:38 <trackbot> ISSUE-66 -- Update XSD datatype map with new XSD 1.1 datatypes -- pending review 15:52:38 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/issues/66 15:52:59 <pfps> guus: no further discussion, so we will close this one 15:53:14 <ivan> ISSUE-86? 15:53:14 <trackbot> ISSUE-86 -- Incompatible definitions of “graph equivalence” between RDF Concepts and RDF Semantics -- pending review 15:53:14 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/issues/86 15:53:38 <pfps> guus: issue-86, divergent definitions of graph equivalence 15:53:57 <pfps> guus: no discussion, so this one is closed as well 15:54:01 <ivan> ISSUE-13? 15:54:01 <trackbot> ISSUE-13 -- Review RDF XML Literals -- pending review 15:54:01 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/issues/13 15:54:25 <pfps> guus: issue-13, xml literal, had some discussion 15:54:56 <mischat> mischat has joined #rdf-wg 15:55:22 <pfps> guus: ivan had some comments 15:55:41 <pfps> ivan: there was a long discussion 15:55:58 <pfps> ivan: the end was a clean proposal that is now in Concepts 15:56:29 <pfps> ivan: this appeared to be acceptable to the WG 15:56:37 <Zakim> +PatH 15:56:41 <pfps> guus: no discussion, so this issue will be closed 15:56:48 <PatH> zakim, mute me 15:56:49 <Zakim> PatH should now be muted 15:57:16 <ivan> ISSUE-63? 15:57:16 <trackbot> ISSUE-63 -- Introduce an HTML5 datatype -- open 15:57:16 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/issues/63 15:57:28 <pfps> guus: ISSUE-63, HTML datatype 15:57:36 <gavinc> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-wg/2012May/0222.html 15:57:50 <sandro> ericP, gavinc -- isn't this wrong? BLANK_NODE_LABEL ::= '_:' PN_CHARS_U | [0-9] ((PN_CHARS | '.')* PN_CHARS)? There should be parens around PN_CHARS_U | [0-9]. 15:58:19 <pfps> ivan: canonicalization .... 15:58:53 <pfps> ivan: should there be equality on the value space? yes 15:59:11 <pfps> ivan: internationalization group is interested here 15:59:24 <gavinc> sandro, sigh, yess... [135s] BLANK_NODE_LABEL ::= '_:' ( PN_CHARS_U | [0-9] ) ((PN_CHARS|'.')* PN_CHARS)? :( 15:59:41 <gavinc> see https://github.com/norcalrdf/pymantic/blob/master/pymantic/scripts/bnf2html 15:59:46 <pfps> ivan: lexical equality doesn't survive beautification 16:00:16 <pfps> ivan: my view is that we accept HTML datatypes as optional 16:00:54 <Guus> PROPSED to accept the resolution to ISSUE 63 as proposed in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-wg/2012May/0222.html 16:01:15 <ivan> PROPOSED: to accept the resolution to ISSUE 63 as proposed in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-wg/2012May/0222.html 16:01:22 <PatH> +1 16:01:23 <ivan> +1 16:01:24 <pfps> guus: discussion? 16:01:32 <pfps> +0 16:01:39 <gavinc> +1 without canonical mapping 16:01:48 <tbaker> 0 16:02:21 <ivan> PROPOSED: to accept the resolution to ISSUE 63 as proposed in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-wg/2012May/0222.html but without the definition of the canonical mapping 16:02:28 <davidwood> +1 16:02:29 <pfps> +0 16:02:31 <ivan> +1 16:02:33 <zwu2> +0 16:02:36 <MacTed> +0 16:02:38 <PatH> +1 16:02:39 <pchampin> +1 16:02:40 <SteveH> +1 16:02:41 <gavinc> +1 16:02:46 <tbaker> +0 16:02:50 <sandro> +1 16:02:55 <ivan> RESOLVED: to accept the resolution to ISSUE 63 as proposed in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-wg/2012May/0222.html but without the definition of the canonical mapping 16:03:17 <pfps> ivan: someone should respond to the I14N WG 16:03:24 <Arnaud> belated +1 :) 16:03:36 <pfps> ACTION ivan: tell I14N WG about HTML 5 resolution 16:03:36 <trackbot> Sorry, amibiguous username (more than one match) - ivan 16:03:36 <trackbot> Try using a different identifier, such as family name or username (eg. ivan, imikhail) 16:03:46 <Souri> Gavin, in N-Triple originally (http://www.w3.org/TR/rdf-testcases/#ntrip_grammar), EBNF for blank node label was: name ::= [A-Za-z][A-Za-z0-9]* 16:04:54 <gavinc> Souri, yes, blank nodes in N-Triples are not exactly the same as in Test Cases 16:05:38 <PatH> track me if you can 16:05:45 <Souri> So, the first character had to be Alpha earlier, but we are now going to allow AlphaNumeric as the first character -- just confirming. 16:06:06 <pfps> guus: issue 87 16:06:14 <gavinc> Souri, correct. 16:06:21 <sandro> gavin, have you seen http://railroad.my28msec.com/rr/ui (I discovered it yesterday -- it makes railroad diagrams in SVG from BNF.) 16:06:27 <pfps> guus: issue 87 check datatypes 16:06:44 <PatH> +q 16:06:46 <davidwood> Ivan's action is at https://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/actions/172 16:06:51 <PatH> zakim, unmute me 16:06:51 <Zakim> PatH should no longer be muted 16:06:59 <sandro> ack sandro 16:06:59 <Zakim> sandro, you wanted to talk about "extensions to turtle"/"punting down the road" and to make little grammar comment 16:07:00 <Guus> ack sandro 16:07:22 <pfps> path: comment back from OWL WG? 16:07:40 <PatH> zakim, mute me 16:07:40 <Zakim> PatH should now be muted 16:07:43 <pfps> pfps: no substantive comment so we can proceed 16:08:54 <pfps> PROPOSAL: Close ISSUE-87 without further action as per http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-wg/2012May/0221.html 16:09:01 <pfps> +1 16:09:07 <gavinc> +1 16:09:15 <PatH> +1 16:09:16 <ivan> +1 16:09:18 <MacTed> +1 16:09:18 <danbri> +1 16:09:18 <sandro> +1 16:09:26 <pfps> RESOLVED: Close ISSUE-87 without further action as per http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-wg/2012May/0221.html 16:09:31 <tbaker> +1 16:09:52 <zwu2> +1 16:10:01 <pfps> PROPOSAL: Resolve ISSUE-88 by adding xsd:duration to the list of supported XSD datatypes in RDF 1.1 as per http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-wg/2012May/0221.html 16:10:22 <pfps> +0 16:10:31 <PatH> +1 16:10:33 <AlexHall> +1 16:10:37 <Arnaud> +1 16:10:37 <gavinc> +1 aligns with <time> model in HTML5 as well 16:10:38 <davidwood> +1 16:10:39 <ivan> +1 16:10:41 <zwu2> 0 16:10:54 <MacTed> +1 16:10:59 <pchampin> +1 16:11:09 <pfps> RESOLVED: Resolve ISSUE-88 by adding xsd:duration to the list of supported XSD datatypes in RDF 1.1 as per http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-wg/2012May/0221.html 16:11:27 <davidwood> +1 16:11:41 <PatH> +0 is no objection, 0 is really dont care, -0 is no formal objection but yuck. 16:11:43 <davidwood> Apache voting process (definition of numbers): http://www.apache.org/foundation/voting.html 16:11:44 <pfps> guus: leave formal decision on WD for next week 16:11:57 <tbaker> http://www.apache.org/foundation/voting.html +0: "I don't feel strongly about it, but I'm okay with this' 16:12:05 <pfps> guus: 4 minutes left 16:12:10 <pfps> Topic: Named Graphs 16:12:35 <sandro> http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/rdf/raw-file/default/rdf-spaces/index.html# 16:12:20 <pfps> what about "space" vs "data space"? 16:12:50 <pfps> guus: please look at RDF spaces document from Sandro and determine where you stand 16:13:15 <PatH> I owe Sandro some semantics input. 16:13:16 <AndyS> I would like to see the key points extracted to be clear what's most important and what's editorial/unfinished. 16:13:30 <sandro> I think those are clearly marked in the draft..... 16:14:04 <pfps> guus: some of these issues will be discussed next week 16:14:06 <AndyS> sandro - no - ones keep coming up that aren't highlighted. 16:14:34 <sandro> like what....? 16:14:35 <pfps> sandro: I edited agenda to include more context 16:14:37 <PatH> peter needs some tech input. 16:14:49 <pfps> guus: five more minutes? 16:15:00 <AndyS> fine 16:15:05 <gavinc> +1 to extending for 5 minutes a conversation that has been going on for more than 8 years ;) 16:15:07 <PatH> +5 16:15:26 <sandro> PROPOSED: Close ISSUE-5 ("Should we define Graph Literal datatypes?"), saying No, we should not. 16:15:32 <pfps> guus: let's look at the first three proposals 16:15:53 <gavinc> +1 No graph literals 16:16:01 <pfps> q+ 16:16:05 <sandro> +0 given practical issues, yeah, I guess these are not our best option. 16:16:14 <PatH> q- 16:16:16 <Souri> +1 No Graph Literals 16:16:58 <MacTed> Zakim, unmute me 16:16:58 <Zakim> MacTed should no longer be muted 16:17:01 <danbri> (I didn't think agendas bound us that strongly) 16:17:03 <gavinc> -1 to more freaking strawpolls 16:17:19 <pfps> guus: issue 5 graph literals - there have been no proposals for this 16:17:22 <Arnaud> why is it a problem? 16:17:30 <pfps> pfps: I don't remember that resolving was on the agenda 16:17:33 <gavinc> We've had strawpolls on these issues at least 3 times in the past 16:17:57 <Zakim> -AndyS 16:17:58 <LeeF> I don't understand at all how you can read the agenda and not understand that we'd be trying to resolve these proposals. 16:18:12 <pfps> guus: agenda said straw polls, and maybe resolution 16:18:43 <pfps> guus: as there was some ambiguity we should defer to next week 16:18:49 <zwu2> Got to go. Bye 16:18:54 <PatH> Anyone who grew up with cattle knows that too much straw has only one inevitable product. 16:18:59 <Zakim> -zwu2 16:19:00 <Zakim> +??P59 16:19:04 <pfps> guus: adjourn, and next week will be about named graphs 16:19:05 <Zakim> -Thomas_Baker 16:19:07 <Zakim> -danbri 16:19:07 <Zakim> -ericP 16:19:08 <Zakim> -Arnaud 16:19:08 <AndyS> zakim, ??P59 is me 16:19:08 <Zakim> +AndyS; got it 16:19:10 <Zakim> -LeeF 16:19:14 <Zakim> -Souri 16:19:15 <MacTed> Zakim, mute AndyS 16:19:16 <Zakim> -AlexHall 16:19:16 <Zakim> AndyS should now be muted 16:19:17 <Zakim> -PatH 16:19:23 <AlexHall> RRSAgent, make records public 16:19:34 <Zakim> -pchampin 16:19:36 <Zakim> -Ivan 16:19:42 <AlexHall> pfps, http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/Scribes - directions at top 16:20:15 <AndyS> For the record ... "not difficult" 16:20:21 <Zakim> -Sandro 16:20:23 <Zakim> -davidwood 16:20:25 <Zakim> -MacTed 16:20:31 <Zakim> -gavinc 16:20:33 <Zakim> -AndyS 16:20:40 <Zakim> -Guus 16:20:43 <Zakim> -pfps 16:20:44 <Zakim> SW_RDFWG()11:00AM has ended 16:20:44 <Zakim> Attendees were pfps, Ivan, +1.707.861.aaaa, pchampin, gavinc, davidwood, +1.603.897.aabb, +31.20.598.aacc, Guus, Sandro, +1.408.996.aadd, +1.617.324.aaee, ericP, Arnaud, AndyS, 16:20:44 <Zakim> ... Souri, +1.617.553.aaff, LeeF, MacTed, danbri, Thomas_Baker, +1.443.212.aagg, AlexHall, zwu2, PatH 16:20:49 <MacTed> (sorry for muting you, Andy... the waterfall noise cuts everyone else out) 16:20:54 <AlexHall> AlexHall has left #rdf-wg 16:21:21 <AndyS> MacTex - np - skype dropped out and that is a sign of network bad quality 16:21:41 <AndyS> AndyS has left #rdf-wg 16:22:11 <PatH> Theorem. For any committee and any time-period, there exists an agenda item for which the committee will spend that time=period trying to decide what to do, without actually doing anything about that agenda item. (The WG Fixpoint Theorem.) # SPECIAL MARKER FOR CHATSYNC. DO NOT EDIT THIS LINE OR BELOW. SRCLINESUSED=00000454