Chatlog 2011-11-16

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15:58:06 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #rdf-wg
15:58:06 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/11/16-rdf-wg-irc
15:58:08 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
15:58:10 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 73394
15:58:11 <trackbot> Meeting: RDF Working Group Teleconference
15:58:11 <trackbot> Date: 16 November 2011
15:58:15 <Zakim> I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled within the next hour, davidwood
15:58:17 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see SW_RDFWG()11:00AM scheduled to start in 2 minutes
15:58:20 <pfps> Topic: Admin
15:58:25 <yvesr> Zakim, who is on the phone?
15:58:25 <Zakim> SW_RDFWG()11:00AM has not yet started, yvesr
15:58:27 <Zakim> On IRC I see RRSAgent, Zakim, cgreer, AZ, pfps, AndyS, Guus, gavinc, MacTed, SteveH, cygri, mischat, ivan, LeeF, davidwood, yvesr, mdmdm, manu1, trackbot, manu, sandro, NickH,
15:58:29 <Zakim> ... ericP
15:59:09 <AndyS> AndyS has left #rdf-wg
15:59:17 <AndyS> AndyS has joined #rdf-wg
15:59:44 <AndyS> zakim, who is on the phone?
15:59:44 <Zakim> SW_RDFWG()11:00AM has not yet started, AndyS
15:59:45 <Zakim> On IRC I see AndyS, RRSAgent, Zakim, cgreer, AZ, pfps, Guus, gavinc, MacTed, SteveH, cygri, mischat, ivan, LeeF, davidwood, yvesr, mdmdm, manu1, trackbot, manu, sandro, NickH,
15:59:48 <Zakim> ... ericP
16:00:16 <AndyS> zakim, this is RDF
16:00:16 <Zakim> ok, AndyS; that matches SW_RDFWG()11:00AM
16:00:22 <AndyS> zakim, who is on the phone?
16:00:22 <Zakim> On the phone I see ??P0, David, +30889aaaa, ??P3, ericP, +1.707.861.aabb
16:00:31 <AndyS> zakim, ??P3 is me
16:00:31 <Zakim> +AndyS; got it
16:00:35 <gavinc> Zakim, aabb is me
16:00:36 <Zakim> +gavinc; got it
16:00:37 <yvesr> Zakim, ??P0 is me
16:00:38 <Zakim> +yvesr; got it
16:00:41 <Zakim> + +1.707.318.aacc
16:00:42 <Zakim> +Peter_Patel-Schneider
16:00:53 <AndyS> trackbot, start meeting
16:00:54 <cgreer> zakim, aacc is me
16:00:54 <Zakim> +cgreer; got it
16:00:55 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
16:00:57 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 73394
16:00:57 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see SW_RDFWG()11:00AM scheduled to start now
16:00:57 <Guus> zakim, who is here?
16:00:58 <trackbot> Meeting: RDF Working Group Teleconference
16:00:58 <trackbot> Date: 16 November 2011
16:00:58 <Zakim> I notice SW_RDFWG()11:00AM has restarted
16:01:00 <Arnaud> Arnaud has joined #rdf-wg
16:01:01 <Zakim> On the phone I see yvesr, David, +30889aaaa, AndyS, ericP, gavinc, cgreer, Peter_Patel-Schneider
16:01:03 <AlexHall> AlexHall has joined #rdf-wg
16:01:04 <Zakim> On IRC I see AndyS, RRSAgent, Zakim, cgreer, AZ, pfps, Guus, gavinc, MacTed, SteveH, cygri, mischat, ivan, LeeF, davidwood, yvesr, mdmdm, manu1, trackbot, manu, sandro, NickH,
16:01:07 <Zakim> ... ericP
16:01:15 <Zakim> +Arnaud_LeHors
16:01:36 <Zakim> + +1.443.212.aadd
16:01:43 <zwu2> zwu2 has joined #rdf-wg
16:01:45 <AlexHall> zakim, aadd is me
16:01:45 <Zakim> +AlexHall; got it
16:01:46 <Guus> zakim, +30 is me
16:01:46 <Zakim> +Guus; got it
16:01:47 <Scott_Bauer> Scott_Bauer has joined #rdf-wg
16:01:51 <ivan> zakim, dial ivan-voip
16:01:51 <Zakim> ok, ivan; the call is being made
16:01:51 <zwu2> zakim, code?
16:01:52 <Zakim> the conference code is 73394 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), zwu2
16:01:53 <Zakim> +Ivan
16:02:01 <cygri_> cygri_ has joined #rdf-wg
16:02:31 <Zakim> + +1.650.265.aaee
16:02:38 <zwu2> zakim, +aaee is me
16:02:42 <Zakim> sorry, zwu2, I do not recognize a party named '+aaee'
16:02:45 <Zakim> +mhausenblas
16:02:47 <Zakim> +Tony
16:02:49 <cygri_> zakim, mhausenblas is temporarily me
16:02:50 <Zakim> +cygri_; got it
16:02:53 <Zakim> +sandro
16:02:53 <zwu2> zakim, +1.650.265.aaee is me
16:02:54 <Zakim> +zwu2; got it
16:02:56 <Scott_Bauer> Zakim, Tony is me
16:02:56 <Zakim> +Scott_Bauer; got it
16:03:01 <Guus> strawpoll telecon on Thanksgiving?
16:03:13 <Guus> 0
16:03:14 <sandro> sandro has changed the topic to: 16 Nov -- http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/Meetings:Telecon2011.11.16
16:03:31 <Scott_Bauer> 0
16:03:34 <sandro> 0
16:03:37 <davidwood> -1 (I can't attend)
16:03:37 <AndyS> 0 (can make TC, but if insuffcient numbers likely, maybe skip)
16:03:43 <gavinc> Telecon on day BEFORE thanksgiving (aka busiest travel day of the year?)
16:03:54 <gavinc> 0
16:04:40 <pfps> scribenick pfps
16:05:01 <AndyS> scribenick: pfps
16:05:17 <Zakim> +Souri
16:05:37 <pfps> accept minutes
16:05:52 <Zakim> + +33.4.77.42.aaff
16:05:52 <pfps> minutes accepted
16:06:47 <pfps> guus: action items
16:06:58 <pfps> scribe: pfps
16:07:01 <AZ> zakim, +33.4.77.42.aaff is me
16:07:01 <Zakim> +AZ; got it
16:08:28 <pfps> guus: all pending-review actions done
16:08:57 <sandro> zakim, who is here?
16:08:58 <Zakim> On the phone I see yvesr, David, Guus, AndyS, ericP, gavinc, cgreer, Peter_Patel-Schneider, Arnaud_LeHors (muted), AlexHall, Ivan, zwu2, cygri_, Scott_Bauer, sandro, Souri, AZ
16:09:01 <pfps> guus: open action review
16:09:05 <Zakim> On IRC I see cygri, Scott_Bauer, zwu2, AlexHall, Arnaud, AndyS, RRSAgent, Zakim, cgreer, AZ, pfps, Guus, gavinc, MacTed, SteveH, mischat, ivan, LeeF, davidwood, yvesr, mdmdm,
16:09:09 <Zakim> ... manu1, trackbot, manu, sandro, NickH, ericP
16:09:15 <cygri> zakim, cygri_ is cygri
16:09:15 <Zakim> +cygri; got it
16:09:30 <pfps> guus: action 73 - fabien will handle in December
16:09:41 <swh> swh has joined #rdf-wg
16:09:53 <pfps> guus: action 82 continued
16:10:07 <pfps> guus: action 94 continued
16:10:53 <Zakim> +??P31
16:10:57 <pfps> guus: action 99 continued
16:11:02 <swh> Zakim, ??P31 is me
16:11:02 <Zakim> +swh; got it
16:11:29 <pfps> guus: action 100 
16:11:33 <pfps> sandro: in progress
16:11:54 <Souri> Souri has joined #rdf-wg
16:11:58 <pfps> guus: is action 99 critical?
16:12:02 <pfps> sandro: no
16:12:42 <pfps> guus: close it in favour of 100?
16:12:50 <pfps> sandro:  OK
16:13:02 <pfps> guus: action 106 
16:13:02 <sandro> close action-99
16:13:02 <trackbot> ACTION-99 Look at ISSUE-11 in relation to SPARQL 1.1 closed
16:13:22 <pfps> gavin: waiting for action in Concepts
16:13:43 <pfps> cygri: waiting for approval from Peter and Pat
16:14:34 <pfps> cygri: will push next week
16:14:52 <pfps> guus: action 111 continued
16:15:13 <cygri> ACTION: cygri to add list of XSD types to Concepts (assuming no objection from PatH or pfps) until 2011-11-25
16:15:14 <trackbot> Created ACTION-122 - Add list of XSD types to Concepts (assuming no objection from PatH or pfps) until 2011-11-25 [on Richard Cyganiak - due 2011-11-23].
16:15:21 <cygri> ACTION-122?
16:15:21 <trackbot> ACTION-122 -- Richard Cyganiak to add list of XSD types to Concepts (assuming no objection from PatH or pfps) until 2011-11-25 -- due 2011-11-23 -- OPEN
16:15:21 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/actions/122
16:15:38 <pfps> guus: action 114 continued
16:15:51 <pfps> guus: action 115 
16:16:05 <pfps> sandro: did get a reaction from Adobe
16:16:10 <pfps> guus: so closed
16:17:31 <pfps> sandro: reaction was rather negative to changes, but deprecation wasn't explicitly mentioned
16:18:43 <pfps> action 116 continued
16:18:43 <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - 116
16:18:49 <Zakim> +??P32
16:18:49 <pfps> guus: action 116 continued
16:19:02 <mischat> zakim, i am ??P32
16:19:03 <Zakim> +mischat; got it
16:19:07 <mischat> zakim, mute me 
16:19:07 <Zakim> mischat should now be muted
16:19:17 <pfps> guus: action 117 - email seen, but still continue
16:19:26 <pfps> guus: action 118 - email seen, but still continue
16:19:30 <AndyS> No progress on action 119, maybe this coming week, but not definite (did warn there might be a delay - it came to pass  :-|)
16:19:46 <pfps> guus: action 119 continue
16:19:59 <pfps> guus: action 120 and 121 continue
16:20:40 <pfps> guus: next week is 'Murican Turkey week
16:21:19 <pfps> guus: skip a week, next telecon is 30 November
16:21:27 <pfps> Topic: ISSUE-79
16:22:14 <pfps> guus: issue 79
16:22:34 <ivan> ISSUE-79?
16:22:34 <trackbot> ISSUE-79 -- What is the value of a literal whose datatype IRI is not a datatype? -- raised
16:22:34 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/issues/79
16:23:20 <pfps> cygri: option 3 - no change to semantics - appears to be the winner, wording may be a bit tricky
16:23:53 <pfps> guus: consensus may be achieved in the near future
16:24:15 <pfps> Topic: ISSUE-37 and ISSUE-69
16:24:15 <pfps> ISSUE-37?
16:24:15 <trackbot> ISSUE-37 -- Handling of fragment identifiers in RDF embedded in other document formats -- pending review
16:24:15 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/issues/37
16:24:23 <pfps> ISSUE-69?
16:24:23 <trackbot> ISSUE-69 -- Handling of fragment identifiers in RDF Concepts -- pending review
16:24:23 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/issues/69
16:24:26 <cygri> http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/rdf/raw-file/default/rdf-concepts/index.html#section-fragID
16:24:55 <pfps> guus: proposal from minutes
16:26:11 <gavinc> ivan, this has a great deal to do with Turtle in HTML's meaning btw
16:26:17 <gavinc> and how it interacts with RDFa
16:26:37 <pfps> cygri: I have new text for RDF Concepts - some review may be warranted, maybe even by TAG
16:27:05 <pfps> guus: consensus on the proposal?
16:28:00 <pfps> gavinc: text should address situations where RDF is embedded in other document types
16:28:15 <pfps> cygri: there is a bit there already - please check it out
16:28:23 <yvesr> q+
16:28:48 <pfps> guus: this appears to be all about wording, not anything technical
16:29:32 <pfps> yvesr: some of the wording may be a bit confusing for neophytes
16:30:34 <AndyS> ack yvesr
16:30:52 <Guus> q?
16:31:04 <gavinc> Zakim, mute me
16:31:04 <Zakim> gavinc should now be muted
16:31:06 <ivan> +1
16:31:07 <Arnaud> +1
16:31:37 <cygri> PROPOSAL: accept new RDF Concepts section 7
16:32:07 <cygri> PROPOSAL: resolve ISSUE-37 and ISSUE-69 by accepting new RDF Concepts section 7 as described in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-wg/2011Nov/0056.html
16:32:11 <yvesr> +1, depending on rephrasing 'Since IRIs in RDF graphs can denote anything, this can be something external to the representation, or even external to the “shared information space” known as the Web.' to something simpler, like 'IRIs in RDF graphs can denote anything, so this is also true for fragment identifiers'
16:32:20 <pfps> +1
16:32:23 <ivan> +1
16:32:32 <gavinc> +1
16:32:34 <zwu2> +1
16:32:40 <Zakim> + +1.650.917.aagg
16:32:56 <pfps> RESOLVED: resolve ISSUE-37 and ISSUE-69 by accepting new RDF Concepts section 7 as described in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-wg/2011Nov/0056.html
16:32:57 <mischat> +1
16:33:00 <pfps> Topic: ISSUE-13
16:33:12 <ivan> ISSUE-13?
16:33:12 <trackbot> ISSUE-13 -- Review RDF XML Literals -- open
16:33:12 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/issues/13
16:33:14 <JeremyCarroll> JeremyCarroll has joined #rdf-wg
16:33:51 <gavinc> Zakim, aagg is JeremyCarroll
16:33:51 <Zakim> +JeremyCarroll; got it
16:33:59 <pfps> guus: jeremy? (good timing)
16:34:16 <pfps> guus: you wanted to make the point that things have changed, and there is a mess to be fixed
16:34:35 <pfps> jeremy: I'm only the messenger
16:35:08 <pfps> guus: change requires a new design
16:35:15 <pfps> ivan: there are some emails on the subject
16:35:27 <pfps> guus: we need a proposal to move forward
16:35:47 <pfps> guus: can someone distil a proposal out of the emails?
16:36:34 <pfps> cygri: design from email was close to a last-call design from 2003, can we just pull something from there?
16:38:24 <pfps> jeremy: problem with first design is that in RDF/XML the literal is not an XML element, but is instead something else, so processing is ugly
16:38:35 <pfps> ivan: is there any way around that at all?
16:38:52 <pfps> jeremy: this was a historical artifact even in 2003
16:39:02 <sandro> does anyone really use this?
16:39:48 <AndyS> q+
16:39:58 <pfps> ivan: canonicalization is only needed when comparing XMLLiteral values
16:40:20 <gavinc> sandro: No. 'cause as far as I know raptor, python rdflib, and sesame don't work according to the spec ;)
16:40:52 <pfps> jeremy: value space is then equivalence classes under canonicalization, so implementations don't have to canonicalization
16:40:54 <pfps> q+
16:41:23 <pfps> q-
16:41:36 <cygri> q+ to ask if wrapper element is really needed
16:41:46 <pfps> q+ to say that implementations don't have to canonicalize even under the current situation
16:42:25 <gavinc> +1000
16:42:37 <pfps> andy: can we excise XMLLiterals from base RDF, thus lessening their impact?
16:42:54 <mischat> ooh, that sounds sensible 
16:43:03 <AZ> +1
16:43:03 <pfps> cygri: I would even prefer them to be optional in datatype maps
16:43:16 <pfps> q+ to say that there was considerable pushback on this 
16:43:33 <AndyS> (still need to deal with in RDF/XML syntax)
16:44:13 <Guus> ack AndyS
16:44:15 <ivan> ack AndyS 
16:44:18 <ivan> ack cygri 
16:44:18 <Zakim> cygri, you wanted to ask if wrapper element is really needed
16:44:19 <Guus> ack cygri
16:44:27 <gavinc> Yes, well XML got a lot less sexy since 2003
16:44:28 <ivan> ack pfps 
16:44:28 <Zakim> pfps, you wanted to say that implementations don't have to canonicalize even under the current situation and to say that there was considerable pushback on this
16:44:29 <Guus> ack pfps
16:44:40 <AndyS> q+
16:44:41 <davidwood> It is no longer 2003
16:44:46 <pfps> pfps: there was considerable pushback on making XMLLiteral optional in 2003
16:45:13 <pfps> cygri: this may have been for internationalization, which should be muted now
16:45:36 <ericP> i believe cygri's proposal sacrifices { <s> <p> "<a:foo xmlns:a="abcd"/> } == { <s> <p> "<b:foo xmlns:b="abcd"/> }
16:45:37 <JeremyCarroll> q+ to mention syntax
16:45:39 <ericP> if we search hard, we might even find someone who's used that
16:45:47 <gavinc> http://www.google.com/trends?q=XML
16:46:16 <Guus> ack AndyS
16:46:35 <pfps> pfps: the people who wanted RDFXML to be the one syntax for RDF wanted XMLLiteral to be required
16:46:46 <Guus> ack JeremyCarroll
16:46:46 <Zakim> JeremyCarroll, you wanted to mention syntax
16:46:59 <pfps> andy: there are more syntaxes now, so the situation may have changed
16:47:15 <pfps> jeremy: historical concerns were also a concern in 2003
16:47:53 <gavinc> PROPOSAL: Move XMLLiteral from Concepts and Semantics into a Note
16:48:25 <mischat> why can't it go into RDF/XML ?
16:48:38 <pfps> ivan: proposal would be that XMLLiteral is just like any other datatype, and not even as important as XML datatypes
16:49:02 <pfps> andy: document on XMLLiteral could be REC or NOTE
16:49:12 <Guus> q?
16:49:48 <Guus> suggest to go with with keeping it in doc as opaque datatype
16:49:48 <pfps> ivan: separate document may be overkill - how about in the document but maybe optional?
16:49:55 <cygri> ivan +0.9
16:50:17 <AndyS> Put it in syntax? (as mischat)
16:50:21 <mischat> given that is only used in rdfxml why not move it in there ?
16:50:39 <AndyS> Various mentions in semantics
16:50:40 <ericP> q+ to ask if the goal is that folks not have to canonicalize, or not have to parse, store and serialize "blah blah blah"^^rdf:XMLLiteral ?
16:50:43 <pfps> cygri: moving it out of the core documents is appealing, but it is mostly harmless to keep it in
16:51:03 <pfps> andy: how about making it an appendix?
16:51:07 <swh> mischat, that would mean you couldn't do RDF/XML -> Turtle without loss - not necessarily a big thing
16:51:08 <pfps> pfps: how about making it a footnote?
16:51:30 <pfps> guus:  let's get the editor to propose wording
16:51:44 <mischat> swh you can't at the moment, re: uriRef and iri , and other things iirc 
16:52:01 <pfps> guus: proposal - keep XMLLiteral in documents, but make it optional
16:52:08 <ericP> q-
16:52:11 <pfps> ivan: OK by me
16:52:36 <pfps> jeremy: opposition to this proposal is likely to be outside this group
16:53:17 <pfps> ericP: are we expecting canonicalization
16:53:45 <pfps> jeremy: yes, we expect canonicalization, but there are people who don't, and won't
16:54:08 <pfps> ivan: can we state where canonicalization is to happen?
16:54:18 <pfps> ivan: currently many implementations don't conform here
16:54:49 <ivan> q+
16:55:01 <pfps> jeremy: early canonicalization is easier, particularly in XMLLiteral
16:55:03 <pfps> q+
16:55:13 <pfps> q+ for a modest proposal
16:55:49 <ivan> ack ivan 
16:55:52 <Guus> ack ivan
16:56:16 <zwu2> an example http://www.w3.org/TR/owl-test/misc-200-xmlliteral
16:56:29 <pfps> ivan: jeremy - I do not agree that XMLLiteral is used only in RDFXML, e.g., DRUPAL
16:56:33 <AndyS> HTML in RDF is another matter.
16:56:41 <cygri> i'd like to do this in turtle: <> dc:title "E=mc<sup>2</sup>"
16:56:53 <gavinc> q+ to point out that XMLLiterals in Turtle are almost all invalid
16:57:19 <ericP> cygri, { <> dc:title "E=mc<sup>2</sup>"^^rdf:XMLLiteral } >
16:57:37 <gavinc> Nope, that's not valid either ericP ;)
16:57:42 <pfps> jeremy: if you are creating XMLLiterals you should be doing it right (which is not easy)
16:57:50 <Guus> ack pfps
16:57:50 <Zakim> pfps, you wanted to discuss a modest proposal
16:58:01 <gavinc>  <> dc:title "E=mc<sup>2</sup>"^^my:HTMLLiteral ;)
16:58:05 <JeremyCarroll> jeremy: was misscribed ....
16:58:15 <davidwood> pfps +1
16:58:26 <sandro> +1 I like the idea of "just string"....
16:58:27 <pfps> pfps: how about making XMLLiteral be string, and pushing off to parsing
16:58:28 <mischat> +1
16:59:14 <sandro> why canonicalize it in RDF/XML ?
16:59:29 <cygri> sandro, because RDF/XML does that already
16:59:51 <sandro> guus: so the datatype is basically just a semaphore
17:00:12 <gavinc> Oh god, oh god, oh god
17:00:25 <pfps> jeremy: then RDF/XML spec specifies canonicalization, and value space is canonicalization equivalence classes
17:00:28 <zwu2> not a bad implementation :)
17:00:37 <pfps> pfps: this would not be my proposal
17:00:50 <Guus> ipeter's proposal makes the spec easier; I like that
17:01:00 <pfps> ivan: in a triple store, what do I do with an XML Literal
17:01:11 <cygri> q+
17:01:20 <pfps> pfps: in my proposal, it is just a string - I think that this codifies current practice
17:01:24 <gavinc> q- 
17:02:17 <AndyS> FILTER(007 = 7) is true.
17:02:56 <AndyS> Strict, minimal pattern matching (RDF) and FILTER (XSD) differ
17:03:26 <JeremyCarroll> q+ to add to Ricghard's point
17:03:26 <pfps> cygri: canonicalization is because RDF/XML parsers change the input, so canonicalization is the only way to recover
17:03:50 <ivan> q+
17:03:57 <pfps> cygri: so canonicalization in RDF/XML makes sense, and everyone else just leaves it alone
17:04:10 <Guus> ack cygri
17:04:26 <ericP> i think cygri's suggestion applies to RDF/XML using parseType="Literal", but probably not to <rdf:Description><foo:bar rdf:datatype="http://...XMLLiteral">E=mc<sup>2</sup></foo:bar><rdf:Description>
17:04:33 <pfps> cygri: canonicalization for comparison appears to be missing a use case
17:04:48 <Guus> ack JeremyCarroll
17:04:48 <cygri> ericP, yes, i meant only parseType="Literal"
17:05:00 <pfps> jeremy: RDF/XML spec also requires ignoring some syntax features
17:05:03 <Guus> ack ivan
17:05:15 <Zakim> JeremyCarroll, you wanted to add to Ricghard's point
17:05:33 <ericP> q?
17:05:46 <pfps> ivan: in turtle, XMLLiteral is just passed through; why do differently in RDF/XML?
17:06:12 <pfps> ivan: RDF/XML parsing does something
17:06:59 <Guus> q?
17:07:02 <pfps> cygri: RDF/XML parsers use an XML parser, which may modify strings
17:07:32 <ericP> q+ to say RDF/XML's parseType="Literal" would produce a subset of the possible lexical space. turtle-writers looking for equivalence with stuff parsed in RDF/XML would probably want to utter their text in a canonical form.
17:07:48 <pfps> ivan: agreed, but who cares, d-entailment will fix
17:08:17 <pfps> cygri: but RDF says that these changes should not occur when storing
17:08:29 <gavinc> No
17:08:31 <pfps> ivan: so change MUST to SHOULD
17:08:32 <gavinc> They don't
17:08:51 <gavinc> raptor, rdflib, etc
17:08:54 <pfps> pfps: I agree with gavin
17:08:56 <Guus> ack ericP
17:08:56 <Zakim> ericP, you wanted to say RDF/XML's parseType="Literal" would produce a subset of the possible lexical space. turtle-writers looking for equivalence with stuff parsed in RDF/XML
17:09:02 <Zakim> ... would probably want to utter their text in a canonical form.
17:09:46 <pfps> eric: RDFXML parsing produces a subset of the literal space, others should stick to this subset but need not
17:10:46 <swh> Zakim, who is speaking?
17:10:59 <Zakim> swh, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Guus (9%), Ivan (84%)
17:11:12 <pfps> ivan: literal space has a bunch of XML Literals, parsers do different things
17:11:38 <pfps> guus: continue debate and see where we get
17:12:15 <sandro> RRSAgent, make logs public
17:13:10 <pfps> guus: action on issue 76 on semantics
17:13:22 <gavinc> Whoohoo! Named Graphs!
17:13:26 <gavinc> Topic: Named Graphs
17:13:59 <pfps> guus: some consensus that graph names should be URIs
17:14:10 <pfps> sandro: what
17:14:16 <pfps> guus: the four slot
17:14:35 <pfps> sandro: graph label was also not objectionable
17:14:48 <sandro> sandro: don't call it 'graph name', call it "graph label" or "fourth column"
17:14:57 <pfps> guus: any more consensus?
17:15:18 <gavinc> Question!
17:15:21 <gavinc> q+
17:15:40 <pfps> Topic: Close pending issues
17:15:43 <pfps> guus: closing pending issues
17:16:16 <gavinc> ah well
17:16:20 <gavinc> -q :(
17:16:26 <mischat> bye
17:16:30 <Zakim> -JeremyCarroll
17:16:32 <Zakim> -sandro
17:16:32 <cgreer> thanks
17:16:34 <Zakim> -ericP
17:16:35 <Zakim> -Souri
17:16:35 <Zakim> -swh
17:16:36 <Zakim> -David
17:16:36 <Zakim> -cygri
17:16:38 <Zakim> -AndyS
17:16:39 <Zakim> -AlexHall
17:16:41 <Zakim> -gavinc
17:16:43 <Zakim> -Ivan
17:16:45 <Zakim> -Arnaud_LeHors
17:16:47 <Zakim> -AZ
17:16:49 <Zakim> -yvesr
17:17:00 <gavinc> So we're about half way into the WG time line... expected publication date for TriG? :\
17:17:26 <Zakim> -Guus
17:17:28 <Zakim> -zwu2
17:17:37 <Zakim> -mischat
17:17:45 <gavinc> trackbot, end meeting
17:17:45 <trackbot> Zakim, list attendees
17:17:45 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been David, +30889aaaa, ericP, +1.707.861.aabb, AndyS, gavinc, yvesr, +1.707.318.aacc, Peter_Patel-Schneider, cgreer, Arnaud_LeHors,
17:17:46 <trackbot> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
17:17:46 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/11/16-rdf-wg-minutes.html trackbot
17:17:47 <trackbot> RRSAgent, bye
17:17:47 <RRSAgent> I see 1 open action item saved in http://www.w3.org/2011/11/16-rdf-wg-actions.rdf :
17:17:47 <RRSAgent> ACTION: cygri to add list of XSD types to Concepts (assuming no objection from PatH or pfps) until 2011-11-25 [1]
17:17:47 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/11/16-rdf-wg-irc#T16-15-13
17:17:49 <Zakim> ... +1.443.212.aadd, AlexHall, Guus, Ivan, sandro, zwu2, Scott_Bauer, Souri, AZ, cygri, swh, mischat, +1.650.917.aagg, JeremyCarroll
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