Chatlog 2011-04-27

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14:23:21 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #rdf-wg
14:23:21 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/04/27-rdf-wg-irc
14:23:23 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
14:23:23 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #rdf-wg
14:23:25 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 73394
14:23:25 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see SW_RDFWG()11:00AM scheduled to start in 37 minutes
14:23:26 <trackbot> Meeting: RDF Working Group Teleconference
14:23:26 <trackbot> Date: 27 April 2011
14:23:32 <ivan> Chair: Guus
14:39:26 <AndyS1> AndyS1 has joined #rdf-wg
14:43:56 <danbri_> danbri_ has joined #rdf-wg
14:44:41 <AZ> AZ has joined #rdf-wg
14:49:57 <Scott> Scott has joined #rdf-wg
14:50:23 <FabGandon> FabGandon has joined #rdf-wg
14:51:48 <OlivierCorby> OlivierCorby has joined #rdf-wg
14:52:34 <AZ> AZ has joined #rdf-wg
14:52:59 <dwood4> dwood4 has joined #rdf-wg
14:53:44 <Zakim> SW_RDFWG()11:00AM has now started
14:53:51 <Zakim> + +1.760.705.aaaa - is perhaps Ronald
14:54:04 <AZ> +1.760.705.aaaa, is me
14:54:27 <dwood4> Mini regrets - I'm on another call and may be a few minutes late.
14:54:53 <Zakim> +Scott
14:56:47 <pfps> pfps has joined #rdf-wg
14:57:01 <Zakim> +Jerome
14:57:19 <FabGandon> Zakim, Jerome is me
14:57:19 <Zakim> +FabGandon; got it
14:57:21 <AZ> zkim, +1.760.705.aaaa is me
14:57:27 <AZ> zakim, +1.760.705.aaaa is me
14:57:27 <Zakim> sorry, AZ, I do not recognize a party named '+1.760.705.aaaa'
14:57:36 <Zakim> +Peter_Patel-Schneider
14:57:49 <AZ> zakim, 1.760.705.aaaa is me
14:57:49 <Zakim> sorry, AZ, I do not recognize a party named '1.760.705.aaaa'
14:58:04 <AZ> zakim, Ronald is me
14:58:04 <Zakim> +AZ; got it
14:58:05 <danbri> danbri has joined #rdf-wg
14:58:20 <Zakim> +??P13
14:58:30 <Zakim> +danbri
14:58:31 <mischat> zakim, +P13 is me
14:58:31 <Zakim> sorry, mischat, I do not recognize a party named '+P13'
14:58:35 <mbrunati> mbrunati has joined #rdf-wg
14:58:44 <mischat> zakim, ??P13 is me
14:58:44 <Zakim> +mischat; got it
14:58:48 <mischat> zakim, mute me
14:58:48 <Zakim> mischat should now be muted
14:59:07 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
14:59:18 <webr3> Zakim, i am IPcaller
14:59:18 <Zakim> ok, webr3, I now associate you with [IPcaller]
14:59:43 <Zakim> +OlivierCorby
14:59:51 <Guus> richard: are you ready to scribe?
15:00:04 <gavinc> gavinc has joined #rdf-wg
15:00:11 <ww> ww has joined #rdf-wg
15:00:17 <ivan> zakim, dial ivan-voip
15:00:17 <Zakim> ok, ivan; the call is being made
15:00:18 <Zakim> +Ivan
15:00:20 <AlexHall> AlexHall has joined #rdf-wg
15:00:26 <Zakim> +[IPcaller.a]
15:00:27 <tomayac> tomayac has joined #rdf-wg
15:00:34 <Zakim> +??P20
15:00:43 <mbrunati> zakim, IPCaller.a is me
15:00:43 <Zakim> +mbrunati; got it
15:00:46 <Zakim> +gavinc
15:00:50 <cmatheus> cmatheus has joined #rdf-wg
15:00:54 <zwu2> zwu2 has joined #rdf-wg
15:01:15 <Zakim> +tomayac
15:01:18 <Guus> zakim, who is here?
15:01:18 <Zakim> On the phone I see AZ, Scott, FabGandon, Peter_Patel-Schneider, mischat (muted), danbri, [IPcaller], OlivierCorby, Ivan, mbrunati, gavinc, tomayac,  yvesr, NickH
15:01:19 <Zakim> +AlexHall
15:01:23 <Zakim> +[IPcaller.a]
15:01:32 <AndyS> zakim, IPcaller.a is me
15:01:34 <Zakim> +AndyS; got it
15:01:39 <OlivierCorby> pass code 73394 is rejected by phone number 04 26 46 79 03, had to call UK number
15:01:40 <Zakim> +??P2
15:01:44 <Zakim> +zwu2
15:01:45 <ww> zakim, ??P2 is me
15:01:52 <zwu2> zakim, mute me
15:01:58 <Zakim> +ww; got it
15:01:59 <ww> zakim, mute me
15:02:02 <Zakim> zwu2 should now be muted
15:02:04 <Zakim> +yvesr, NickH; got it
15:02:10 <Zakim> ww should now be muted
15:02:12 <danbri_> danbri_ has joined #rdf-wg
15:02:24 <Zakim> +David_Wood
15:02:33 <ivan> zakim, mute me
15:02:36 <Zakim> Ivan should now be muted
15:02:51 <Zakim> +Sandro
15:03:31 <AZ> AZ has joined #rdf-wg
15:03:37 <AndyS> me was alt last week
15:03:45 <AndyS> Sure - 
15:03:52 <AndyS> scribe: AndyS
15:04:21 <AndyS> topic: admin
15:04:22 <Zakim> -AZ
15:04:29 <SteveH_> SteveH_ has joined #rdf-wg
15:04:42 <pfps> Minutes F2F look fine now.
15:04:48 <Zakim> + +1.760.705.aabb - is perhaps AZ
15:04:54 <AndyS> Minutes of F2F:
15:04:55 <AndyS> http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/meeting/2011-04-13 
15:04:58 <AndyS> http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/meeting/2011-04-14
15:05:00 <AxelPolleres> AxelPolleres has joined #rdf-wg
15:05:15 <ivan> second
15:05:16 <AndyS> Proposed to accept ...
15:05:24 <mischat> +1 to accept
15:05:25 <Zakim> +??P40
15:05:27 <yvesr> +1
15:05:29 <mbrunati> +1
15:05:30 <tomayac> +1
15:05:31 <dwood4> +1
15:05:36 <AndyS> RESOLVED: to accept the minutes of the F2F (both days)
15:05:47 <Zakim> +AxelPolleres
15:05:58 <dwood4> Zakim, who is talking?
15:05:59 <pfps> Minutes last week look fine also.
15:06:06 <dwood4> seconded
15:06:07 <AZ> +1
15:06:08 <Zakim> +??P46
15:06:09 <AndyS> Minutes of last telecon:    http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/meeting/2011-04-20 
15:06:10 <Zakim> dwood4, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: AZ (28%), danbri (24%), gavinc (9%)
15:06:27 <gavinc> zakim, mute me
15:06:27 <Zakim> gavinc should now be muted
15:06:30 <AndyS> RESOLVED: to accept the minutes of TC 2011-04-20
15:06:35 <Zakim> +??P9
15:06:40 <SteveH_> Zakim, ??P9 is me
15:06:40 <Zakim> +SteveH_; got it
15:06:47 <AZ> zakim, mute me
15:06:47 <Zakim> AZ should now be muted
15:06:49 <AndyS> subtopic: Actions mgt
15:07:30 <sandro> close action-27
15:07:30 <trackbot> ACTION-27 Make sure the resolution to issue-12 gets into semantics document closed
15:07:37 <sandro> action-28?
15:07:37 <trackbot> ACTION-28 -- Steve Harris to make sure issue-12 resolution gets to SPARQL -- due 2011-04-20 -- CLOSED
15:07:37 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/actions/28
15:07:47 <sandro> action-30?
15:07:47 <trackbot> ACTION-30 -- Guus Schreiber to put issue-34 on agenda for next time, proposed resolution "No" -- due 2011-04-20 -- PENDINGREVIEW
15:07:47 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/actions/30
15:07:52 <sandro> close action-30
15:07:52 <trackbot> ACTION-30 Put issue-34 on agenda for next time, proposed resolution "No" closed
15:08:02 <sandro> action-36?
15:08:02 <trackbot> ACTION-36 -- Guus Schreiber to ask Pat to be an editor of RDF Semantics -- due 2011-04-21 -- PENDINGREVIEW
15:08:02 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/actions/36
15:08:15 <sandro> close action-36
15:08:15 <trackbot> ACTION-36 Ask Pat to be an editor of RDF Semantics closed
15:08:36 <Zakim> +LeeF
15:08:44 <sandro> action-25?
15:08:44 <trackbot> ACTION-25 -- Richard Cyganiak to write up the different options re ISSUE-15 -- due 2011-04-13 -- OPEN
15:08:44 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/actions/25
15:08:47 <AndyS> Open issues progress ...
15:08:58 <Zakim> +Kingsley_Idehen
15:09:06 <MacTed> Zakim, Kingsley_Idehen is OpenLink_Software
15:09:08 <Zakim> +OpenLink_Software; got it
15:09:13 <MacTed> Zakim, OpenLink_Software is temporarily me
15:09:13 <Zakim> +MacTed; got it
15:09:15 <MacTed> Zakim, mute me
15:09:15 <Zakim> MacTed should now be muted
15:09:19 <sandro> action-26?
15:09:19 <trackbot> ACTION-26 -- Patrick Hayes to write an description of action-21 -- due 2011-04-13 -- OPEN
15:09:19 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/actions/26
15:09:28 <sandro> action-32?
15:09:28 <trackbot> ACTION-32 -- Sandro Hawke to make public-rdf-json@w3.org -- due 2011-04-20 -- OPEN
15:09:28 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/actions/32
15:09:33 <sandro> close action-32
15:09:33 <trackbot> ACTION-32 Make public-rdf-json@w3.org closed
15:09:55 <sandro> action-33?
15:09:55 <trackbot> ACTION-33 -- Dan Brickley to danbri, you wanted to note a bug in RDFS spec; it references Primer example 16 -- an example that doesn't even use rdf:value. -- due 2011-08-21 -- OPEN
15:09:55 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/actions/33
15:10:27 <AndyS> Danbri suggests setting up a test area
15:10:37 <danbri_> ok queued for later re editorial work: cvs/svn or (tada!) mercurial
15:10:47 <sandro> action-39?
15:10:47 <trackbot> ACTION-39 -- Sandro Hawke to look at respec's handling of references -- due 2011-04-21 -- OPEN
15:10:47 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/actions/39
15:11:26 <AndyS> Mailing list is http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-linked-json/
15:12:14 <AndyS> Sandro: need experts on respec
15:12:50 <AndyS> Guus: volunteers to investigate choices -- respec, wiki text
15:13:02 <gavinc> Sure why not
15:13:07 <AndyS> dwood4: Opportunity !
15:13:11 <ww> i'll help too
15:13:17 <pchampin> I'd like to help as well
15:13:32 <AZ> AZ has joined #rdf-wg
15:14:05 <AndyS> sandro: unfamiliar with respec.  OWL2 used wiki mechanism
15:14:20 <AndyS> ... can help with wiki, have not used respec
15:14:23 <pchampin> It has been used by the media-annotation WG as well
15:14:28 <pchampin> it = respect
15:14:36 <pchampin> I can ask them about it as well
15:14:40 <sandro> s/respect/respec/
15:14:41 <ivan> zakim, unmute me
15:14:41 <Zakim> Ivan should no longer be muted
15:15:17 <gavinc> http://dev.w3.org/2009/dap/ReSpec.js/documentation.html ?
15:15:42 <mischat> http://dev.w3.org/2009/dap/ReSpec.js/documentation.html
15:15:52 <mischat> http://berjon.com/slides/20091104-respec/_respec.html <-- some slides 
15:15:57 <AndyS> ivan: respec: javascript based. Edit HTML doc, with scripts, format for W3C e.g. status, boilerplate, 
15:16:10 <AndyS> ... javascript to modify benehaviour
15:16:25 <AndyS> ... generates pure HTML5 (pub form has no scripts)
15:16:49 <AndyS> ... references: one big javascript file for refs for all W3C docs.
15:16:59 <pfps> a big problem with the Wiki solution was performing edits while off line - is this also a problem with respec?
15:17:08 <AndyS> ... possible to have WG level DB for refs/drafts
15:18:18 <AndyS> ... missing - cross link to anchors in drafts. javascript coding needed to automate.
15:18:34 <AndyS> ... +ve: HTML - edit in HTML
15:18:45 <AndyS> ... browser with javascript
15:19:25 <AndyS> ... offline - edit locally works - scripts local
15:19:38 <AndyS> sandro: how can I experiment with it?
15:19:48 <AndyS> ivan: it's own doc is an example
15:20:14 <AZ> AZ has joined #rdf-wg
15:20:15 <AndyS> ivan: it's not an editor - its format support.
15:20:25 <Guus> q?
15:20:28 <AndyS> Guus: thanks for explaination
15:20:29 <ww> i was actually looking for something like that earlier today 
15:20:44 <AndyS> sandro: Conversion tools?
15:20:59 <AndyS> ivan: no. Need section element of HTML5 and so get TOC
15:21:11 <gavinc> uses the outline HTML5 method as well
15:21:17 <pfps> I think that we should be OK wrt <section> as respec maps <hn> appropriately.
15:21:43 <AndyS> One time pain to convert
15:21:44 <pchampin> and converting html4 to html5 seems easier than html4 to wiki...
15:22:02 <AndyS> action-40?
15:22:02 <trackbot> ACTION-40 -- Mischa Tuffield to look into soton video conf facilities -- due 2011-04-27 -- OPEN
15:22:02 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/actions/40
15:22:03 <mischat> yup, southampton are in theory happy
15:22:07 <mischat> it is up to us
15:22:17 <sandro> close action-40
15:22:17 <trackbot> ACTION-40 Look into soton video conf facilities closed
15:22:26 <AndyS> topic: F2F2
15:23:59 <AndyS> Guus: Not much change from last week in poll results
15:24:10 <ivan> q+
15:24:23 <AndyS> ... there 4 F2F for the WG
15:24:41 <AndyS> ... split to be fair to all
15:25:02 <AndyS> ... west, east, EU, ?
15:25:12 <AndyS> ... Ivan can make west coast dates only
15:25:40 <AndyS> ivan: sandro can make the East coast dates 
15:26:06 <AndyS> ... linked to RDB2RDF , RDF web apps
15:26:16 <AndyS> ... RDB2RDF - TPAC ??
15:26:31 <AndyS> ... RDF web apps - many invited experts so cost issus
15:27:02 <AndyS> Guus: if video link, east coast location is better
15:27:12 <sandro> q+
15:27:12 <zwu2> can we change the date for the East coast?
15:27:43 <mischat> I like the idea of east coast + video link
15:27:57 <mischat> southampton can host it
15:28:01 <AndyS> ... weak case for TPAC currently, go East Coast, aim to go West coast for future US F2F
15:28:23 <yvesr> mischat, +1
15:28:25 <gavinc> mmm, it's 1 person, not 2 or 3
15:28:29 <AZ> AZ has joined #rdf-wg
15:28:37 <webr3> mischat, +1 here too
15:29:12 <zwu2> can we swap East coast date with West coast date?
15:29:19 <zwu2> yes
15:29:21 <mischat> zakim, who is making noise ?
15:29:32 <Zakim> mischat, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: danbri (96%), Sandro (4%)
15:29:34 <sandro> No, zwu2 
15:29:41 <zwu2> yes
15:29:52 <zwu2> Oracle has a conference that week
15:30:09 <gavinc> Boston prefered to Murray Hill as well
15:30:10 <AndyS> Results are at http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/46168/RDFWGFTF2/results
15:30:59 <AndyS> Ivan: budget issues - EU link would help
15:32:12 <NickH> UK satellite would work well for me and yvesr
15:33:00 <pchampin> it would be easier for me as well
15:33:35 <AndyS> (much discussion about alternative date possibilities)
15:34:35 <sandro> Proposed: F2F2 US/East Oct 11-12
15:34:53 <zwu2> Oct 11-12 is fine for me
15:34:58 <pfps> That week (Canadian Thanksgiving) is not ideal for me.
15:35:08 <AndyS> 9 days before ISWC
15:36:45 <gavinc> Canadian Thanksgiving
15:37:03 <sandro> new poll - oct 4-5 vs oct 12-13, 
15:37:11 <AndyS> Guus: new poll: two choices: in oct, East Coast
15:37:22 <AndyS> video conf facilities?
15:37:35 <mischat> i wonder if a video link up is going to be on the table 
15:37:38 <mischat> ?
15:37:48 <gavinc> Cambridge has lots of hotels.
15:39:03 <AndyS> Do we know the numbers at each end roughly?
15:39:29 <AndyS> pfps: Our best room holds 110 - too big for practical purposes?
15:39:46 <AndyS> sandro: who would go where?
15:39:54 <AndyS> Guus: will add to poll
15:39:59 <sandro> guus, ask another question about who would be where, if we do a video link.
15:40:37 <sandro> action: guus to set up poll about which site you'd use if we have a video link, pref murray hill vs cambridge/mit, and oct 4-5 vs oct-12-13.
15:40:38 <trackbot> Created ACTION-41 - Set up poll about which site you'd use if we have a video link, pref murray hill vs cambridge/mit, and oct 4-5 vs oct-12-13. [on Guus Schreiber - due 2011-05-04].
15:41:10 <AndyS> Topic: list discussion
15:41:33 <AndyS> Guus: pls us WG list for WG work mainly - general discussions to general lists
15:42:23 <AndyS> topic: Reconcile various forms of string literals 
15:42:27 <AndyS> Issue-12?
15:42:27 <trackbot> ISSUE-12 -- Reconcile various forms of string literals (time permitting) -- open
15:42:27 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/issues/12
15:43:09 <AndyS> ivan: I raised the issue to make sure it got done.
15:43:10 <AZ> AZ has joined #rdf-wg
15:43:22 <AndyS> ... pfps suggests this is a non-issue
15:44:13 <AndyS> pfps: It it not a non-issue - semantics says xsd:string are  same as plain literals no lang tag
15:44:28 <pfps> s/it it/it is/
15:44:32 <AZ> +q
15:44:33 <Zakim> -OlivierCorby
15:44:48 <AZ> zakim, unmute
15:44:48 <Zakim> I don't understand 'unmute', AZ
15:44:51 <AndyS> ivan: F2F1 was that simple literals preferred
15:44:53 <Danbri> Danbri has joined #rdf-wg
15:44:56 <AndyS> ... some push back
15:45:05 <mischat> zakime, unmute AZ 
15:45:06 <AZ> zakim, unmute me
15:45:06 <Zakim> AZ should no longer be muted
15:45:52 <AndyS> ... status is that F2F resolution has some -1's
15:45:57 <AndyS> Guus: where are we?
15:46:48 <AndyS> AZ: my prob with resolution is "archaic" means "do not use" but I want to use in rdfs:range.
15:47:04 <AZ> "Recommend that publishers use plain literals instead of xs:string typed  literals and tell systems to silently convert xs:string literals to  plain literals without language tag." 
15:47:10 <AndyS> ... I think that archaic suggest don't do that.
15:47:18 <AndyS> ... (suggests text)
15:47:32 <LeeF> q+
15:47:35 <sandro> Yes, agreed -- the intention was this -- it wasn't about disallowing xs:string as a range constraint
15:47:37 <sandro> q-
15:47:41 <ivan> ack ivan 
15:47:53 <ivan> ack AZ 
15:48:23 <AndyS> LeeF: Want range thing and SPARQL datatype is already xsd:string
15:48:28 <ivan> q+
15:48:32 <ivan> ack LeeF 
15:48:37 <AndyS> ... goal of align is desirable
15:48:46 <sandro> lee: I want the sparql DATATYPE function to return xs:string on these things, but it might already be.
15:49:10 <Guus> ack ivan
15:49:37 <pfps> The datatype rdf:PlainLiteral is bigger than xsd:string
15:49:42 <AndyS> ivan: rdf:PlainLiteral usable?
15:49:53 <AndyS> sandro: No - includes language tage
15:50:06 <AZ> "Recommend that publishers use plain literals instead of xs:string typed  literals and tell systems to silently convert xs:string literals to  plain literals without language tag."
15:50:13 <LeeF> http://www.w3.org/TR/rdf-sparql-query/#func-datatype -- it is the case that datatype("foo") = xsd:string
15:50:27 <yvesr> AZ, +1
15:50:34 <LeeF> q+
15:50:47 <ivan> ack LeeF 
15:50:53 <AndyS> Guus: please propose on the list
15:51:08 <AndyS> LeeF: need to check experts in CSI
15:51:19 <pchampin> q+ to ask ask a clarification
15:51:25 <AndyS> Guus: One week on the list, bring to WG next week.
15:51:51 <AndyS> action: AZ Propose text for resolution on archaic xsd:strings
15:51:51 <trackbot> Created ACTION-42 - Propose text for resolution on archaic xsd:strings [on Antoine Zimmermann - due 2011-05-04].
15:52:12 <pchampin> q-
15:52:13 <AZ> zakim, mute me
15:52:13 <Zakim> AZ should now be muted
15:52:19 <webr3> issue-34?
15:52:19 <trackbot> ISSUE-34 -- Do we need to add syntactic sugar to turtle, beyond what's in the Submission (such as inverse paths and =)? -- open
15:52:19 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/issues/34
15:52:30 <AndyS> topic: syntactic sugar to turtle
15:52:52 <sandro> q?
15:53:25 <Danbri> Q+ to ask if sparql 1.1 paths are useful assertionally?
15:53:36 <AndyS> Guus: Please phrase as proposal then bring to TC next week
15:53:47 <Guus> ack danbri
15:53:47 <Zakim> Danbri, you wanted to ask if sparql 1.1 paths are useful assertionally?
15:53:51 <AndyS> danbri: SPARQL paths?
15:54:04 <cygri> cygri has joined #rdf-wg
15:54:05 <AndyS> q+
15:54:07 <yvesr> Danbri, I mentioned that at the f2f, consensus was to not do it i think
15:54:12 <SteveH> propose - "to not add any features to Turtle over what is in the submission"
15:54:26 <yvesr> Danbri, although i see the point and why it could be useful
15:54:34 <AndyS> steveH: paths only in SPARQL where clause
15:54:45 <Guus> ack AndyS
15:54:58 <yvesr> yep
15:55:05 <pchampin> and what about '*' paths :-/
15:55:06 <Zakim> -AxelPolleres
15:55:08 <ivan> q+
15:55:17 <ivan> q-
15:55:17 <mischat> AndyS: if you wanted to add the paths to turtle, there would be issues re: bnodes 
15:55:18 <AndyS> AndyS: need to decide what intermediate nodes are
15:55:22 <AndyS> q-
15:55:24 <cygri_> cygri_ has joined #rdf-wg
15:55:32 <AndyS> Guus: any more input?
15:55:37 <ivan> second it
15:55:55 <mischat> any objections to the proposal 
15:56:00 <mischat> ?
15:56:21 <AndyS> RESOLVED: "to not add any features to Turtle over what is in the submission"
15:56:37 <Danbri> I would be interested to hear more re paths, but maybe off wg list for now
15:56:54 <sandro> RESOLVED: Close issue-34 without adding any features (syntactic sugar) to Turtle over what is in the submission
15:57:15 <AndyS> topic: Turtle and SPARQL-WG LC timing
15:57:17 <Zakim> +mhausenblas
15:57:27 <cygri_> zakim, mhausenblas is me
15:57:27 <Zakim> +cygri_; got it
15:57:46 <AndyS> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-wg/2011Apr/0470.html
15:57:59 <Zakim> -[IPcaller]
15:58:14 <AndyS> LeeF: SPARQL-WG has decided to make 18. change inc fix tests
15:58:46 <AndyS> ... so now is the Turtle features going to change (see email for diffs)
15:59:17 <AndyS> See - http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/Diff_SPARQL_Turtle
15:59:45 <AndyS> sandro: could put "at risk" so end of LC is latest to resolve
16:00:08 <ivan> q+
16:00:10 <AndyS> LeeF: OK but not favorite - many items - confusing
16:01:07 <Zakim> +??P49
16:01:34 <Zakim> +yvesr, NickH; got it
16:01:34 <AZ> AZ has joined #rdf-wg
16:01:43 <sandro> AndyS: Of the difference on the wiki page I did, probably the biggest is freestanding bnode property lists
16:01:45 <mischat> Guus: what are the main issues this wg will have in terms of syncing with turtle
16:01:56 <ivan> q?
16:02:11 <mischat> http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/Diff_SPARQL_Turtle#bNode_property_lists
16:02:11 <sandro> sandro: how to move forward on this, Andy?
16:02:38 <sandro> AndyS: Two options -- publish turtle exactly matching sparql, or adopt principle of aligning them
16:03:12 <gavinc> Prefer the 2nd to the first?
16:03:16 <sandro> STRAWPOLL: We agree in principle to align TURTLE and SPARQL
16:03:17 <zwu2> +1 to consistency
16:03:23 <AndyS> +1
16:03:26 <sandro> guus: no one speaking against it
16:03:26 <dwood4> +1
16:03:32 <sandro> +1
16:03:32 <yvesr> +1
16:03:33 <LeeF> +1
16:03:34 <NickH> +1
16:03:37 <ivan> +1
16:03:38 <pchampin> +1
16:03:39 <Danbri> If we do leave wiggle room between the specs, we can also include notes on the subtle differences in our spec
16:03:39 <gavinc> +1
16:03:41 <mbrunati> +1
16:03:49 <Danbri> +1
16:03:50 <cygri> +1 to consistency, but still requires case-by-case consideration
16:03:50 <AZ> +1
16:04:14 <FabGandon> +1
16:04:18 <SteveH> +1
16:04:20 <sandro> AndyS: I'm not sure of the state of current implementations on these corner cases.
16:04:29 <LeeF> I'd like that the default state be "align Turtle to SPARQL", and that there have to be a strong technical compelling case in order to go in the other direction
16:04:56 <sandro> AndyS: I'd be happy to remove free-standing lists from SPARQL
16:05:36 <sandro> guus: So, there might be some detailed features at risk, but they are pretty well aligned so far
16:05:52 <sandro> guus: So, do you want us to put these on a priority list?
16:06:02 <sandro> AndyS: I'd rather NOT go through them feature-by-feature.
16:06:26 <AndyS> +1 to LeeF "compelling" case needed
16:06:48 <dwood4> +1 to needing a compelling case to diviate
16:06:58 <Zakim> -Peter_Patel-Schneider
16:06:59 <sandro> sandro: Is the proposal that SPARQL last call  (next week) is last call for any changes to TURTLE???
16:07:14 <Danbri> Zakim, who is on the call
16:07:14 <Zakim> I don't understand 'who is on the call', Danbri
16:07:20 <Zakim> +Peter_Patel-Schneider
16:07:40 <sandro> AndyS: That would be nice, but that's not it.
16:07:55 <sandro> guus: The spirit is to align them
16:08:34 <sandro> ivan: I understand the freestanding list, the bnode brackets, I have no problem deciding now that TURTLE should adopt those and move on.   I fail to grasp the backslash-u issue.
16:08:39 <AZ> AZ has joined #rdf-wg
16:08:47 <mischat> http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/Diff_SPARQL_Turtle#Escape_Processing
16:09:43 <sandro> AndyS: SPARQL and TURTLE have an escape mechanism that works slightly differently, in addition Eric is proposing adding them to prefix names.
16:09:45 <cygri> q+
16:09:52 <ivan> q-
16:10:36 <sandro> guus: Is this the only item where you (Andy) and Eric disagree?  If so, it seems like a good thing to mark At Risk.
16:11:16 <sandro> AndyS: Are you talking about the difference in escape processing, or about eric's SPARQL feature request.
16:11:25 <Guus> q?
16:11:28 <sandro> q+
16:11:46 <Zakim> -FabGandon
16:11:50 <sandro> ivan: is it just these three things?
16:11:57 <ivan> ack cygri 
16:12:04 <sandro> AndyS: I think so, no one else has brought anything else up
16:12:57 <sandro> cygri: I have concerns about this unicode escape issue -- this needs more discussion.    I think the current sparql approach isnt optimal for turtle.  I don't have a strong opinion about whether this means SPARQL should change, or the two should deviate on this.
16:13:27 <sandro> ... I also agree all the other issues, TURTLE should follow SPARQL, except maybe on final-dot at end of document.
16:13:39 <Danbri> Ivan/sandro, can you investigate shared filespace issue for the wg? Mercurial etc...? I'd like to close my rdfs issue... by opening an editors draft
16:13:47 <sandro> cygri: So unicode escape is the one place there might still be a need for SPARQL to change.
16:14:06 <sandro> Danbri, we can get mercurial space, yes.
16:14:22 <Danbri> Please :) 
16:14:26 <sandro> guus: So, Lee, it sounds like you should mark the unicode stuff at risk.
16:14:42 <sandro> q?
16:14:44 <sandro> q-
16:14:48 <AndyS> yvesr - currently yes
16:14:56 <AndyS> yvesr - currently correct
16:15:00 <ivan> q+
16:15:06 <SteveH> there is a wiki page
16:15:09 <AZ> AZ has joined #rdf-wg
16:15:12 <cygri> http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/Skolemization
16:15:32 <AndyS> topic: skolemization meta-discussion
16:16:01 <AndyS> Guus: next two weeks - be clear about options 
16:16:07 <mischat> http://www.w3.org/mid/0B4851C8-3017-4295-9F95-38347A4BF0D1@cyganiak.de
16:16:09 <AndyS> ... then we can get to resolution
16:16:15 <ivan> zakim, drop me
16:16:15 <Zakim> Ivan is being disconnected
16:16:15 <AndyS> adjourned
16:16:16 <Zakim> -Ivan
16:16:16 <Zakim> -Peter_Patel-Schneider
16:16:17 <Zakim> -AlexHall
16:16:17 <Zakim> -cygri_
16:16:18 <Zakim> -David_Wood
16:16:18 <Zakim> -SteveH_
16:16:18 <zwu2> bye
16:16:19 <Zakim> -danbri
16:16:21 <Zakim> -gavinc
16:16:21 <AlexHall> AlexHall has left #rdf-wg
16:16:24 <Zakim> -MacTed
16:16:24 <mbrunati> bye
16:16:25 <Zakim> -Sandro
16:16:27 <yvesr> bye
16:16:28 <Zakim> -ww
16:16:32 <Zakim> -mischat
16:16:32 <LeeF> thanks, Guus
16:16:34 <Zakim> -zwu2
16:16:35 <Zakim> -pchampin
16:16:37 <Zakim> -Scott
16:16:39 <Zakim> -LeeF
16:16:42 <Zakim> -AndyS
16:16:43 <Zakim> -mbrunati
16:16:45 <Zakim> -AZ
16:18:22 <Zakim> -??P46
16:20:01 <AndyS> AndyS has joined #rdf-wg
16:24:07 <pchampin> pchampin has left #rdf-wg
16:24:16 <Zakim> -tomayac
16:24:17 <Zakim> SW_RDFWG()11:00AM has ended
16:24:19 <Zakim> Attendees were +1.760.705.aaaa, Scott, FabGandon, Peter_Patel-Schneider, AZ, danbri, mischat, [IPcaller], OlivierCorby, Ivan, mbrunati, gavinc, tomayac, AlexHall, AndyS, zwu2, ww,
16:24:22 <Zakim> ... yvesr, NickH, David_Wood, Sandro, +1.760.705.aabb, pchampin, AxelPolleres, SteveH_, LeeF, MacTed, cygri_
16:25:41 <tomayac> tomayac has joined #rdf-wg
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