RDF Working Group

Minutes of 02 May 2012

Seen
Andy Seaborne, Antoine Zimmermann, Arnaud Le Hors, Dan Brickley, David Wood, Eric Prud'hommeaux, Gavin Carothers, Guus Schreiber, Ivan Herman, Nicholas Humfrey, Patrick Hayes, Peter Patel-Schneider, Richard Cyganiak, Sandro Hawke, Souripriya Das, Thomas Baker, Yves Raimond, Zhe Wu
Scribe
Richard Cyganiak
IRC Log
Original and Editable Wiki Version
Resolutions
  1. accept the minutes of the 25 Apr telecon http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/meeting/2012-04-25 link
  2. Resolve ISSUE-66 by adding xsd:dayTimeDuration, xsd:yearMonthDuration and xsd:dateTimeStamp to the table of recommended XSD types in RDF Concepts ED Section 5.1 (RDF Semantics has a redundant list of the same types; this also needs to be changed accordingly, or removed in favour of normatively referencing RDF Concepts.) link
  3. RDF-WG will work on an HTML datatype that would be defined in RDF Concepts. link
  4. Resolve ISSUE-86 as proposed in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-wg/2012May/0011.html link
Topics
14:56:32 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/05/02-rdf-wg-irc

RRSAgent IRC Bot: logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/05/02-rdf-wg-irc

14:57:36 <davidwood1> Zakim, this is rdf-wg

David Wood: Zakim, this is rdf-wg

14:57:36 <Zakim> sorry, davidwood1, I do not see a conference named 'rdf-wg' in progress or scheduled at this time

Zakim IRC Bot: sorry, davidwood1, I do not see a conference named 'rdf-wg' in progress or scheduled at this time

14:57:42 <davidwood1> Zakim, this is rdf

David Wood: Zakim, this is rdf

14:57:42 <Zakim> ok, davidwood1; that matches SW_RDFWG()11:00AM

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, davidwood1; that matches SW_RDFWG()11:00AM

14:57:44 <Zakim> +Guus

Zakim IRC Bot: +Guus

14:57:53 <Zakim> +??P3

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P3

14:57:58 <Zakim> +EricP

Zakim IRC Bot: +EricP

14:58:01 <Zakim> +Tom_Baker (was ??P3)

Zakim IRC Bot: +Tom_Baker (was ??P3)

14:58:05 <Zakim> +??P8

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P8

14:59:23 <Zakim> +Sandro

Zakim IRC Bot: +Sandro

14:59:32 <Zakim> +gavinc

Zakim IRC Bot: +gavinc

14:59:48 <yvesr> Zakim, ??P3 is me

Yves Raimond: Zakim, ??P3 is me

14:59:48 <Zakim> I already had ??P3 as Tom_Baker, yvesr

Zakim IRC Bot: I already had ??P3 as Tom_Baker, yvesr

14:59:53 <Zakim> +mhausenblas

Zakim IRC Bot: +mhausenblas

14:59:57 <yvesr> Zakim, who is on the phone?

Yves Raimond: Zakim, who is on the phone?

14:59:57 <Zakim> On the phone I see bhyland, Guus, Tom_Baker, EricP, ??P8, Sandro, gavinc, mhausenblas

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see bhyland, Guus, Tom_Baker, EricP, ??P8, Sandro, gavinc, mhausenblas

14:59:58 <ivan> zakim, dial ivan-voip

Ivan Herman: zakim, dial ivan-voip

14:59:58 <cygri> zakim, mhausenblas is temporarily me

Richard Cyganiak: zakim, mhausenblas is temporarily me

14:59:59 <Zakim> ok, ivan; the call is being made

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, ivan; the call is being made

14:59:59 <Zakim> +cygri; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +cygri; got it

14:59:59 <Zakim> +??P15

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P15

14:59:59 <Zakim> +Ivan

Zakim IRC Bot: +Ivan

15:00:02 <yvesr> Zakim, ??P8 is me

Yves Raimond: Zakim, ??P8 is me

15:00:03 <Zakim> +yvesr; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +yvesr; got it

15:00:10 <Guus> zakim, mute me

Guus Schreiber: zakim, mute me

15:00:10 <Zakim> Guus should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: Guus should now be muted

15:00:16 <Zakim> +??P16

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P16

15:00:25 <AndyS> zakim, ??P16 is me

Andy Seaborne: zakim, ??P16 is me

15:00:25 <Zakim> +AndyS; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +AndyS; got it

15:00:41 <pfps> zakim, ??P15 is me

Peter Patel-Schneider: zakim, ??P15 is me

15:00:41 <Zakim> +pfps; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +pfps; got it

15:00:43 <pfps> ack pfps

Peter Patel-Schneider: ack pfps

15:00:51 <pfps> zakim, ack pfps

Peter Patel-Schneider: zakim, ack pfps

15:00:51 <Zakim> I see ??P15 on the speaker queue

Zakim IRC Bot: I see ??P15 on the speaker queue

15:00:56 <pfps> ack ??P15

Peter Patel-Schneider: ack ??P15

15:00:59 <AndyS> zakim, who is making noise?

Andy Seaborne: zakim, who is making noise?

15:01:01 <davidwood1> q+

David Wood: q+

15:01:12 <davidwood1> q-

David Wood: q-

15:01:17 <Zakim> AndyS, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: pfps (56%)

Zakim IRC Bot: AndyS, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: pfps (56%)

15:01:31 <Zakim> +??P18

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P18

15:01:37 <danbri> zakim, ??P18 is probably danbri

Dan Brickley: zakim, ??P18 is probably danbri

15:01:37 <Zakim> +danbri?; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +danbri?; got it

15:03:22 <Zakim> +Arnaud

Zakim IRC Bot: +Arnaud

15:03:29 <gavinc> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Model_M_keyboard

Gavin Carothers: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Model_M_keyboard

15:03:47 <gavinc> bucking spring!

Gavin Carothers: bucking spring!

15:04:10 <gavinc> err, BUCKLING

Gavin Carothers: err, BUCKLING

15:04:10 <ivan> zakim, mute me

Ivan Herman: zakim, mute me

15:04:10 <Zakim> Ivan should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: Ivan should now be muted

15:04:11 <cygri> http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-AIbRUjE1jyI/TdQUuKhmy-I/AAAAAAAAAGg/P_U7JwuMRIc/s1600/article-0-0C1972A800000578-285_634x568.jpg

Richard Cyganiak: http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-AIbRUjE1jyI/TdQUuKhmy-I/AAAAAAAAAGg/P_U7JwuMRIc/s1600/article-0-0C1972A800000578-285_634x568.jpg

15:04:45 <Zakim> +??P29

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P29

15:05:01 <AZ> zakim, ??P29

Antoine Zimmermann: zakim, ??P29

15:05:01 <Zakim> I don't understand '??P29', AZ

Zakim IRC Bot: I don't understand '??P29', AZ

15:05:05 <AZ> zakim, ??P29 is me

Antoine Zimmermann: zakim, ??P29 is me

15:05:05 <Zakim> +AZ; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +AZ; got it

15:05:21 <Zakim> +Souri

Zakim IRC Bot: +Souri

15:05:45 <cygri> scribe: cygri

(Scribe set to Richard Cyganiak)

15:05:54 <cygri> Topic: Admin

1. Admin

15:05:47 <davidwood> PROPOSED to accept the minutes of the 25 Apr telecon:

David Wood: PROPOSED to accept the minutes of the 25 Apr telecon:

15:05:47 <davidwood>    http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/meeting/2012-04-25

David Wood: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/meeting/2012-04-25

15:06:17 <cygri> RESOLUTION: accept the minutes of the 25 Apr telecon http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/meeting/2012-04-25

RESOLVED: accept the minutes of the 25 Apr telecon http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/meeting/2012-04-25

15:06:27 <cygri> Topic: Review of action items

2. Review of action items

15:06:16 <davidwood> http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/actions/pendingreview

David Wood: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/actions/pendingreview

15:06:16 <davidwood> http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/actions/open

David Wood: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/actions/open

15:06:37 <cygri> ACTION-126?

ACTION-126?

15:06:37 <trackbot> ACTION-126 -- Richard Cyganiak to write up rdf:XMLLiteral proposal on the wiki -- due 2012-01-07 -- PENDINGREVIEW

Trackbot IRC Bot: ACTION-126 -- Richard Cyganiak to write up rdf:XMLLiteral proposal on the wiki -- due 2012-01-07 -- PENDINGREVIEW

15:06:37 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/actions/126

Trackbot IRC Bot: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/actions/126

15:07:08 <cygri> davidwood: ACTION-126 is complete

David Wood: ACTION-126 is complete

15:07:36 <cygri> ACTION-152

ACTION-152

15:07:39 <cygri> ACTION-152?

ACTION-152?

15:07:39 <trackbot> ACTION-152 -- Gavin Carothers to create new issue for :'s in the local part of prefix names -- due 2012-03-21 -- OPEN

Trackbot IRC Bot: ACTION-152 -- Gavin Carothers to create new issue for :'s in the local part of prefix names -- due 2012-03-21 -- OPEN

15:07:39 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/actions/152

Trackbot IRC Bot: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/actions/152

15:07:55 <cygri> gavinc: ACTION-152 is overcome by events, can be closed

Gavin Carothers: ACTION-152 is overcome by events, can be closed

15:07:59 <zwu2> zakim, code?

Zhe Wu: zakim, code?

15:07:59 <Zakim> the conference code is 73394 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), zwu2

Zakim IRC Bot: the conference code is 73394 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), zwu2

15:08:02 <danbri> q+ to talk re RDFS

Dan Brickley: q+ to talk re RDFS

15:08:10 <AndyS> zakim, who is on the phone?

Andy Seaborne: zakim, who is on the phone?

15:08:10 <Zakim> On the phone I see bhyland, Guus (muted), Tom_Baker, EricP, yvesr, Sandro, gavinc, cygri, pfps, Ivan (muted), AndyS, danbri?, Arnaud, AZ, Souri

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see bhyland, Guus (muted), Tom_Baker, EricP, yvesr, Sandro, gavinc, cygri, pfps, Ivan (muted), AndyS, danbri?, Arnaud, AZ, Souri

15:08:23 <danbri> I have "Danbri, you wanted to note a bug in RDFS spec; it references Primer example 16 -- an example that doesn't even use rdf:value." and "Move all content of RDF Concepts section 3 (“RDF Vocabulary IRI and Namespace”), and merge it into RDF Schema section 1 as appropriate (or create a new section?)"

Dan Brickley: I have "Danbri, you wanted to note a bug in RDFS spec; it references Primer example 16 -- an example that doesn't even use rdf:value." and "Move all content of RDF Concepts section 3 (“RDF Vocabulary IRI and Namespace”), and merge it into RDF Schema section 1 as appropriate (or create a new section?)"

15:08:30 <gavinc> Zakim, who is talking?

Gavin Carothers: Zakim, who is talking?

15:08:33 <davidwood> Zakim, who is talking?

David Wood: Zakim, who is talking?

15:08:40 <Zakim> +zwu2

Zakim IRC Bot: +zwu2

15:08:42 <Zakim> gavinc, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: pfps (53%), EricP (18%)

Zakim IRC Bot: gavinc, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: pfps (53%), EricP (18%)

15:08:44 <zwu2> zakim, mute me

Zhe Wu: zakim, mute me

15:08:44 <Zakim> zwu2 should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: zwu2 should now be muted

15:08:52 <Zakim> davidwood, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: pfps (50%), danbri? (74%)

Zakim IRC Bot: davidwood, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: pfps (50%), danbri? (74%)

15:08:53 <Arnaud> who's vaccum cleaning?

Arnaud Le Hors: who's vaccum cleaning?

15:08:54 <ericP> Zakim, mute pfps

Eric Prud'hommeaux: Zakim, mute pfps

15:08:54 <Zakim> pfps should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: pfps should now be muted

15:08:55 <davidwood> Zakim, mute pfps

David Wood: Zakim, mute pfps

15:08:55 <Zakim> pfps was already muted, davidwood

Zakim IRC Bot: pfps was already muted, davidwood

15:09:22 <danbri> am i audible?

Dan Brickley: am i audible?

15:09:48 <cygri> danbri: i'm editing rdf-schema and have actions there

Dan Brickley: i'm editing rdf-schema and have actions there

15:09:56 <cygri> ... but waiting for group decisions

... but waiting for group decisions

15:10:11 <cygri> davidwood: i don't think we're talking about much that affects rdf-schema

David Wood: i don't think we're talking about much that affects rdf-schema

15:10:16 <cygri> danbri: what about datatypes?

Dan Brickley: what about datatypes?

15:10:20 <cygri> q+

q+

15:10:42 <cygri> davidwood: some issues on that are on the agenda for today

David Wood: some issues on that are on the agenda for today

15:10:47 <cygri> q-

q-

15:11:08 <cygri> danbri: how about add two more months to these actions

Dan Brickley: how about add two more months to these actions

15:11:17 <davidwood> Topic: RDF Concepts Proposals

3. RDF Concepts Proposals

15:11:17 <davidwood> Subtopic: RDF Concepts Proposals

3.1. RDF Concepts Proposals

15:11:28 <davidwood> PROPOSAL: Resolve ISSUE-66 by adding xsd:duration, xsd:dayTimeDuration, xsd:yearMonthDuration and xsd:dateTimeStamp to the table of allowed XSD types in RDF Concepts ED Section 5.1 (RDF Semantics has a redundant list of the same types; this also needs to be changed accordingly, or removed in favour of normatively referencing RDF Concepts.)

PROPOSED: Resolve ISSUE-66 by adding xsd:duration, xsd:dayTimeDuration, xsd:yearMonthDuration and xsd:dateTimeStamp to the table of allowed XSD types in RDF Concepts ED Section 5.1 (RDF Semantics has a redundant list of the same types; this also needs to be changed accordingly, or removed in favour of normatively referencing RDF Concepts.)

15:11:28 <davidwood>  http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-wg/2012May/0009.html

David Wood: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-wg/2012May/0009.html

15:12:37 <davidwood> http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/XSD_Datatypes

David Wood: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/XSD_Datatypes

15:13:20 <Zakim> +??P0

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P0

15:13:22 <AndyS> q+

Andy Seaborne: q+

15:13:27 <danbri> ack danbri

Dan Brickley: ack danbri

15:13:27 <Zakim> danbri, you wanted to talk re RDFS

Zakim IRC Bot: danbri, you wanted to talk re RDFS

15:13:30 <davidwood> ack AndyS

David Wood: ack AndyS

15:13:46 <NickH> Zakim, ??P15 is me

Nicholas Humfrey: Zakim, ??P15 is me

15:13:46 <Zakim> I already had ??P15 as pfps, NickH

Zakim IRC Bot: I already had ??P15 as pfps, NickH

15:13:56 <davidwood> AndyS: xsd:precisionDecimal is defined in a Note, not a Rec

Andy Seaborne: xsd:precisionDecimal is defined in a Note, not a Rec [ Scribe Assist by David Wood ]

15:14:10 <NickH> Zakim, ??P13 is me

Nicholas Humfrey: Zakim, ??P13 is me

15:14:10 <Zakim> I already had ??P13 as cygri, NickH

Zakim IRC Bot: I already had ??P13 as cygri, NickH

15:14:15 <NickH> Zakim, ??P0 is me

Nicholas Humfrey: Zakim, ??P0 is me

15:14:15 <Zakim> +NickH; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +NickH; got it

15:14:27 <NickH> Zakim, mute me

Nicholas Humfrey: Zakim, mute me

15:14:27 <Zakim> NickH should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: NickH should now be muted

15:14:28 <AndyS> http://www.w3.org/TR/xsd-precisionDecimal/

Andy Seaborne: http://www.w3.org/TR/xsd-precisionDecimal/

15:14:32 <pfps> q+

Peter Patel-Schneider: q+

15:14:41 <davidwood> ack pfps

David Wood: ack pfps

15:14:41 <AndyS> WG Note

Andy Seaborne: WG Note

15:15:28 <cygri> q+

q+

15:15:46 <davidwood> ack cygri

David Wood: ack cygri

15:15:48 <cygri> pfps: we should first figure out what's the relationship to OWL and RIF

Peter Patel-Schneider: we should first figure out what's the relationship to OWL and RIF

15:16:13 <Zakim> +PatH

Zakim IRC Bot: +PatH

15:16:53 <ivan> q+

Ivan Herman: q+

15:16:59 <davidwood> http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/XSD_Datatypes

David Wood: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/XSD_Datatypes

15:17:10 <cygri> cygri: what's in OWL and RIF doesn't constrain what we say in RDF

Richard Cyganiak: what's in OWL and RIF doesn't constrain what we say in RDF

15:17:53 <cygri> davidwood: we presumably will fold in some of the new XSD datatypes except where there's a reason against it

David Wood: we presumably will fold in some of the new XSD datatypes except where there's a reason against it

15:18:43 <cygri> sandro: does the list of types affect conformance?

Sandro Hawke: does the list of types affect conformance?

15:19:02 <cygri> AndyS: read it as: here are some types you can use

Andy Seaborne: read it as: here are some types you can use

15:19:12 <PatH> especially as the 2004 text explicitly looks forward to the improvements we now have.

Patrick Hayes: especially as the 2004 text explicitly looks forward to the improvements we now have.

15:19:51 <cygri> sandro: if it's a SHOULD in RDF, then any misalignment doesn't really affect anyone

Sandro Hawke: if it's a SHOULD in RDF, then any misalignment doesn't really affect anyone

15:20:10 <cygri> ... they should be the same as a matter of convenience

... they should be the same as a matter of convenience

15:20:32 <ivan> zakim, unmute me

Ivan Herman: zakim, unmute me

15:20:32 <Zakim> Ivan should no longer be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: Ivan should no longer be muted

15:20:33 <cygri> davidwood: RIF and OWL already failed to codify all the RDF 2004 datatypes. nothing we can do to fix that

David Wood: RIF and OWL already failed to codify all the RDF 2004 datatypes. nothing we can do to fix that

15:20:41 <pfps> q+

Peter Patel-Schneider: q+

15:20:48 <davidwood> ack ivan

David Wood: ack ivan

15:21:21 <cygri> ivan: for example xsd:gYear is not in owl, for reasons i can't remember

Ivan Herman: for example xsd:gYear is not in owl, for reasons i can't remember

15:21:33 <cygri> ... i can see no reason for not having it in RDF

... i can see no reason for not having it in RDF

15:22:00 <cygri> ... for due diligence, we should check that all OWL and RIF datatypes are listed in RDF

... for due diligence, we should check that all OWL and RIF datatypes are listed in RDF

15:22:32 <cygri> davidwood: the only difference are the three new XSD types. the proposal is to fold these three in

David Wood: the only difference are the three new XSD types. the proposal is to fold these three in

15:22:33 <PatH> it is fine for rdf to allow a dtype which owl or rif prohibits; the opposite is problematic.

Patrick Hayes: it is fine for rdf to allow a dtype which owl or rif prohibits; the opposite is problematic.

15:22:42 <cygri> q+

q+

15:23:03 <sandro> PatH, RDF isn't allowing or prohibiting these, just "recommending" them.

Sandro Hawke: PatH, RDF isn't allowing or prohibiting these, just "recommending" them.

15:23:07 <cygri> ivan: it should be checked carefully that all the RIF+OWL types are in

Ivan Herman: it should be checked carefully that all the RIF+OWL types are in

15:23:10 <gavinc> http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/XSD_Datatypes is what your asking for Ivan

Gavin Carothers: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/XSD_Datatypes is what your asking for Ivan

15:23:19 <AndyS> FYI, gYear is not comparable in F&O - it makes life interesting if strict.

Andy Seaborne: FYI, gYear is not comparable in F&O - it makes life interesting if strict.

15:23:22 <Zakim> -zwu2

Zakim IRC Bot: -zwu2

15:23:30 <cygri> davidwood: my only concern was why precisionDecimal wasn't in

David Wood: my only concern was why precisionDecimal wasn't in

15:23:33 <davidwood> ack pfps

David Wood: ack pfps

15:24:04 <Zakim> +zwu2

Zakim IRC Bot: +zwu2

15:24:04 <cygri> �pfps: the history with the xsd:gYear and related time types were in OWL1

�pfps: the history with the xsd:gYear and related time types were in OWL1

15:24:17 <cygri> ... they were in OWL1

... they were in OWL1

15:24:43 <cygri> ... they have no well-defined ordering, hence have problems in OWL and RIF

... they have no well-defined ordering, hence have problems in OWL and RIF

15:25:02 <cygri> davidwood: nothing in this proposal talks about revisiting the RDF 2004 types

David Wood: nothing in this proposal talks about revisiting the RDF 2004 types

15:25:17 <PatH> we could note the problems, however.

Patrick Hayes: we could note the problems, however.

15:25:34 <davidwood> PROPOSAL: Resolve ISSUE-66 by adding xsd:duration, xsd:dayTimeDuration, xsd:yearMonthDuration and xsd:dateTimeStamp to the table of allowed XSD types in RDF Concepts ED Section 5.1 (RDF Semantics has a redundant list of the same types; this also needs to be changed accordingly, or removed in favour of normatively referencing RDF Concepts.)

PROPOSED: Resolve ISSUE-66 by adding xsd:duration, xsd:dayTimeDuration, xsd:yearMonthDuration and xsd:dateTimeStamp to the table of allowed XSD types in RDF Concepts ED Section 5.1 (RDF Semantics has a redundant list of the same types; this also needs to be changed accordingly, or removed in favour of normatively referencing RDF Concepts.)

15:25:34 <davidwood>  http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-wg/2012May/0009.html

David Wood: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-wg/2012May/0009.html

15:25:43 <davidwood> q?

David Wood: q?

15:25:48 <sandro> sandro: So this proposal in no way precludes removing gDay tomorrow.

Sandro Hawke: So this proposal in no way precludes removing gDay tomorrow. [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ]

15:25:50 <sandro> issue-66?

Sandro Hawke: ISSUE-66?

15:25:50 <trackbot> ISSUE-66 -- Update XSD datatype map with new XSD 1.1 datatypes -- open

Trackbot IRC Bot: ISSUE-66 -- Update XSD datatype map with new XSD 1.1 datatypes -- open

15:25:50 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/issues/66

Trackbot IRC Bot: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/issues/66

15:25:50 <AndyS> SPARQL is not like RIF here (don't know about OWL)  ... SPARQL copes with "indeterminate", RIF does not.

Andy Seaborne: SPARQL is not like RIF here (don't know about OWL) ... SPARQL copes with "indeterminate", RIF does not.

15:25:53 <cygri> sandro: the proposal doesn't preclude paring down the list later on

Sandro Hawke: the proposal doesn't preclude paring down the list later on

15:25:58 <davidwood> ack cygri

David Wood: ack cygri

15:26:14 <PatH> q+

Patrick Hayes: q+

15:27:40 <ivan> q+

Ivan Herman: q+

15:27:52 <ivan> q-

Ivan Herman: q-

15:27:55 <gavinc> q?

Gavin Carothers: q?

15:27:58 <davidwood> ack PatH

David Wood: ack PatH

15:28:06 <PatH> q-

Patrick Hayes: q-

15:28:18 <davidwood> PROPOSAL: Resolve ISSUE-66 by adding xsd:dayTimeDuration, xsd:yearMonthDuration and xsd:dateTimeStamp to the table of allowed XSD types in RDF Concepts ED Section 5.1 (RDF Semantics has a redundant list of the same types; this also needs to be changed accordingly, or removed in favour of normatively referencing RDF Concepts.)

PROPOSED: Resolve ISSUE-66 by adding xsd:dayTimeDuration, xsd:yearMonthDuration and xsd:dateTimeStamp to the table of allowed XSD types in RDF Concepts ED Section 5.1 (RDF Semantics has a redundant list of the same types; this also needs to be changed accordingly, or removed in favour of normatively referencing RDF Concepts.)

15:28:18 <davidwood>  http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-wg/2012May/0009.html

David Wood: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-wg/2012May/0009.html

15:28:48 <sandro> +1

Sandro Hawke: +1

15:28:50 <ivan> +1

Ivan Herman: +1

15:28:54 <davidwood> +1

David Wood: +1

15:28:59 <AZ> +1

Antoine Zimmermann: +1

15:29:02 <yvesr> +1

Yves Raimond: +1

15:29:05 <ivan> zakim, who is noisy?

Ivan Herman: zakim, who is noisy?

15:29:08 <AndyS> "allowed" -> "recommended"

Andy Seaborne: "allowed" -> "recommended"

15:29:08 <danbri> +1

Dan Brickley: +1

15:29:16 <Zakim> ivan, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Sandro (9%), pfps (62%), Ivan (5%)

Zakim IRC Bot: ivan, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Sandro (9%), pfps (62%), Ivan (5%)

15:29:22 <Arnaud> +1

Arnaud Le Hors: +1

15:29:26 <pfps> -0, as I still worry about xsd:dateTime

Peter Patel-Schneider: -0, as I still worry about xsd:duration

15:29:36 <tbaker> +0

Thomas Baker: +0

15:29:52 <pfps> s/xsd:dateTime/xsd:duration/
15:30:55 <Arnaud> I'm actually not happy with the handling of timezones, or lack of, with those datatypes but that's orthogonal

Arnaud Le Hors: I'm actually not happy with the handling of timezones, or lack of, with those datatypes but that's orthogonal

15:30:55 <davidwood> There were no verbal objections to making AndyS's change in wording:

David Wood: There were no verbal objections to making AndyS's change in wording:

15:31:02 <davidwood> PROPOSAL: Resolve ISSUE-66 by adding xsd:dayTimeDuration, xsd:yearMonthDuration and xsd:dateTimeStamp to the table of recommended XSD types in RDF Concepts ED Section 5.1 (RDF Semantics has a redundant list of the same types; this also needs to be changed accordingly, or removed in favour of normatively referencing RDF Concepts.)

PROPOSED: Resolve ISSUE-66 by adding xsd:dayTimeDuration, xsd:yearMonthDuration and xsd:dateTimeStamp to the table of recommended XSD types in RDF Concepts ED Section 5.1 (RDF Semantics has a redundant list of the same types; this also needs to be changed accordingly, or removed in favour of normatively referencing RDF Concepts.)

15:31:02 <davidwood>  http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-wg/2012May/0009.html

David Wood:  http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-wg/2012May/0009.html

15:31:03 <gavinc> +1

Gavin Carothers: +1

15:31:09 <ivan> zakim, mute me

Ivan Herman: zakim, mute me

15:31:09 <Zakim> Ivan should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: Ivan should now be muted

15:31:29 <cygri> RESOLUTION: Resolve ISSUE-66 by adding xsd:dayTimeDuration, xsd:yearMonthDuration and xsd:dateTimeStamp to the table of recommended XSD types in RDF Concepts ED Section 5.1 (RDF Semantics has a redundant list of the same types; this also needs to be changed accordingly, or removed in favour of normatively referencing RDF Concepts.)

RESOLVED: Resolve ISSUE-66 by adding xsd:dayTimeDuration, xsd:yearMonthDuration and xsd:dateTimeStamp to the table of recommended XSD types in RDF Concepts ED Section 5.1 (RDF Semantics has a redundant list of the same types; this also needs to be changed accordingly, or removed in favour of normatively referencing RDF Concepts.)

15:32:02 <cygri> pfps, does this work for you?

pfps, does this work for you?

15:32:02 <cygri> Subtopic: xsd:duration and reviewing problematic datatypes from RDF 2004

3.2. xsd:duration and reviewing problematic datatypes from RDF 2004

15:32:05 <davidwood> PROPOSAL: Resolve ISSUE-66 by adding xsd:duration to the table of recommended XSD types in RDF Concepts ED Section 5.1 (RDF Semantics has a redundant list of the same types; this also needs to be changed accordingly, or removed in favour of normatively referencing RDF Concepts.)

PROPOSED: Resolve some new issue by adding xsd:duration to the table of recommended XSD types in RDF Concepts ED Section 5.1 (RDF Semantics has a redundant list of the same types; this also needs to be changed accordingly, or removed in favour of normatively referencing RDF Concepts.)

15:32:06 <cygri> ISSUE-87?

ISSUE-87?

15:32:06 <trackbot> ISSUE-87 -- Revisit RDF 2004 datatypes that have proven troublesome in OWL and RIF -- raised

Trackbot IRC Bot: ISSUE-87 -- Revisit RDF 2004 datatypes that have proven troublesome in OWL and RIF -- raised

15:32:06 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/issues/87

Trackbot IRC Bot: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/issues/87

15:32:24 <davidwood> s/ISSUE-66/some new issue/
15:33:03 <davidwood> PROPOSAL: Add xsd:duration to the table of recommended XSD types in RDF Concepts ED Section 5.1 (RDF Semantics has a redundant list of the same types; this also needs to be changed accordingly, or removed in favour of normatively referencing RDF Concepts.)

PROPOSED: Add xsd:duration to the table of recommended XSD types in RDF Concepts ED Section 5.1 (RDF Semantics has a redundant list of the same types; this also needs to be changed accordingly, or removed in favour of normatively referencing RDF Concepts.)

15:33:14 <gavinc> +1

Gavin Carothers: +1

15:33:27 <PatH> +1

Patrick Hayes: +1

15:33:28 <ivan> +1

Ivan Herman: +1

15:34:40 <gavinc> Also xsd:duration is a two value tuple with months and seconds. The duration modal used in HTML and microformats is also now aligned with this model

Gavin Carothers: Also xsd:duration is a two value tuple with months and seconds. The duration modal used in HTML and microformats is also now aligned with this model

15:34:49 <sandro> very, very clever.

Sandro Hawke: very, very clever.

15:35:11 <davidwood> +1

David Wood: +1

15:35:37 <sandro> +1

Sandro Hawke: +1

15:35:47 <yvesr> +1

Yves Raimond: +1

15:36:17 <ivan> q+

Ivan Herman: q+

15:36:36 <PatH> fofl, ericP

Patrick Hayes: fofl, ericP

15:36:46 <davidwood> ack Ivan

David Wood: ack Ivan

15:37:07 <cygri> pfps: XSD has had problems in the past. OWL WG looked at XSD 1.1 drafts to check what works, and xsd:duration didn't pass the bar

Peter Patel-Schneider: XSD has had problems in the past. OWL WG looked at XSD 1.1 drafts to check what works, and xsd:duration didn't pass the bar

15:37:30 <cygri> ivan: Boris Motik looked at XSD 1.1 and from he said it looks fine

Ivan Herman: Boris Motik looked at XSD 1.1 and from he said it looks fine

15:37:56 <cygri> ... also: if a datatype doesn't work in OWL or RIF, that's not a reason to not allow it or remove it from RDF

... also: if a datatype doesn't work in OWL or RIF, that's not a reason to not allow it or remove it from RDF

15:38:07 <PatH> +1 ivan

Patrick Hayes: +1 ivan

15:38:14 <cygri> ... it's fine for OWL and RIF to restrict the list

... it's fine for OWL and RIF to restrict the list

15:38:28 <davidwood> q?

David Wood: q?

15:38:29 <cygri> ... but we're not talking about OWL or RIF here.

... but we're not talking about OWL or RIF here.

15:38:39 <PatH> RDF can (must) be more permissive than owl or rif

Patrick Hayes: RDF can (must) be more permissive than owl or rif

15:38:55 <PatH> q+

Patrick Hayes: q+

15:39:00 <AndyS> Overblown : +1 : Any DT is legal.

Andy Seaborne: Overblown : +1 : Any DT is legal.

15:39:30 <cygri> pfps: RDF can make its own choices. but it should consider OWL work

Peter Patel-Schneider: RDF can make its own choices. but it should consider OWL work

15:39:32 <gavinc> So we're clear we are talking about http://www.w3.org/TR/xmlschema11-2/#duration

Gavin Carothers: So we're clear we are talking about http://www.w3.org/TR/xmlschema11-2/#duration

15:39:44 <davidwood> ack PatH

David Wood: ack PatH

15:40:08 <davidwood> PatH: It is fine for RDF to be more permissive than OWL.

Patrick Hayes: It is fine for RDF to be more permissive than OWL. [ Scribe Assist by David Wood ]

15:40:25 <danbri> (aside, I keep running into requests for fuzzier dates, e.g. in a cultural heritage setting, or vague info in geneaology; I've no expectation RDF's core will address this...)

Dan Brickley: (aside, I keep running into requests for fuzzier dates, e.g. in a cultural heritage setting, or vague info in geneaology; I've no expectation RDF's core will address this...)

15:40:28 <cygri> PatH: RDF is more permissive. RDF allowing more is fine. the other way round would be a problem

Patrick Hayes: RDF is more permissive. RDF allowing more is fine. the other way round would be a problem

15:40:35 <gavinc> The old text said: xsd:duration does not have a well-defined value space (this may be corrected in later revisions of XML Schema datatypes, in which case the revised datatype would be suitable for use in RDF datatyping

Gavin Carothers: The old text said: xsd:duration does not have a well-defined value space (this may be corrected in later revisions of XML Schema datatypes, in which case the revised datatype would be suitable for use in RDF datatyping

15:40:51 <davidwood> danbri, good point.

David Wood: davidwood, good point.

15:40:54 <cygri> ... as long as RDF doesn't obstruct OWL, it's fine

... as long as RDF doesn't obstruct OWL, it's fine

15:41:08 <gavinc> There is a later revision of XML Schema that has been correct and has a well defined value space

Gavin Carothers: There is a later revision of XML Schema that has been correct and has a well defined value space

15:42:34 <cygri> pfps: to play nice we should have the courtesy to ask the OWL WG

Peter Patel-Schneider: to play nice we should have the courtesy to ask the OWL WG

15:42:46 <gavinc> Rushing? The issue was opened in the spec itself in 2004!

Gavin Carothers: Rushing? The issue was opened in the spec itself in 2004!

15:42:50 <cygri> ... and also RIF and SPARQL

... and also RIF and SPARQL

15:43:14 <sandro> q?

Sandro Hawke: q?

15:43:17 <sandro> q+

Sandro Hawke: q+

15:43:46 <cygri> ... W3C has a long history where subsequent standards try very hard to cover all of RDF. we should not break this

... W3C has a long history where subsequent standards try very hard to cover all of RDF. we should not break this

15:43:47 <AndyS> This is called out in the Linked Data Platform WG charter.

Andy Seaborne: This is called out in the Linked Data Platform WG charter.

15:44:25 <cygri> q+

q+

15:44:27 <davidwood> ack Sandro

David Wood: ack Sandro

15:45:05 <cygri> sandro: we might be able to amend this in OWL when we re-open the OWL WG due to XSD 1.1 REC

Sandro Hawke: we might be able to amend this in OWL when we re-open the OWL WG due to XSD 1.1 REC

15:45:12 <cygri> pfps: that would be the preferred route

Peter Patel-Schneider: that would be the preferred route

15:47:18 <gavinc> +q

Gavin Carothers: +q

15:47:22 <PatH> q+

Patrick Hayes: q+

15:47:48 <davidwood> ack cygri

David Wood: ack cygri

15:48:16 <sandro> zakim, who is talking?

Sandro Hawke: zakim, who is talking?

15:48:19 <PatH> loud typing...

Patrick Hayes: loud typing...

15:48:27 <Zakim> sandro, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: cygri (86%), pfps (9%), Ivan (34%)

Zakim IRC Bot: sandro, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: cygri (86%), pfps (9%), Ivan (34%)

15:48:37 <davidwood> cygri: Datatypes being broken for RIF. OWL or SPARQL does not infer that they are broken for RDF.

Richard Cyganiak: Datatypes being broken for RIF. OWL or SPARQL does not infer that they are broken for RDF. [ Scribe Assist by David Wood ]

15:48:38 <cygri> ISSUE-87?

ISSUE-87?

15:48:38 <trackbot> ISSUE-87 -- Revisit RDF 2004 datatypes that have proven troublesome in OWL and RIF -- raised

Trackbot IRC Bot: ISSUE-87 -- Revisit RDF 2004 datatypes that have proven troublesome in OWL and RIF -- raised

15:48:38 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/issues/87

Trackbot IRC Bot: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/issues/87

15:48:38 <gavinc> zakim mute ivan

Gavin Carothers: zakim mute ivan

15:48:39 <ivan> zakim, mute me

Ivan Herman: zakim, mute me

15:48:39 <Zakim> Ivan should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: Ivan should now be muted

15:49:15 <sandro> s/danbri/davidwood/
15:49:49 <sandro> q+

Sandro Hawke: q+

15:50:13 <sandro> +1 cygri     lets proceed, knowing issue-87 now exists

Sandro Hawke: +1 cygri lets proceed, knowing ISSUE-87 now exists

15:50:25 <davidwood> ack gavinc

David Wood: ack gavinc

15:51:27 <cygri> gavinc: jeremy and alex revisited xsd:duration and said the value space is now fine. whom are we looking for to provide another answer?

Gavin Carothers: jeremy and alex revisited xsd:duration and said the value space is now fine. whom are we looking for to provide another answer?

15:51:48 <cygri> pfps: we should ask OWL WG

Peter Patel-Schneider: we should ask OWL WG

15:52:17 <davidwood> ack PatH

David Wood: ack PatH

15:52:19 <cygri> sandro: can we proceed, knowing ISSUE-87 now exists?

Sandro Hawke: can we proceed, knowing ISSUE-87 now exists?

15:52:34 <cygri> pfps: i'd still vote against

Peter Patel-Schneider: i'd still vote against

15:53:02 <cygri> PatH: we should reject the argument that RDF has a duty to align exactly with other specs like OWL and RIF

Patrick Hayes: we should reject the argument that RDF has a duty to align exactly with other specs like OWL and RIF

15:53:11 <sandro> Technically, the OWL and RIF WGs still exist, in order to handle XSD 1.1 finally going to REC.   (danbri)

Sandro Hawke: Technically, the OWL and RIF WGs still exist, in order to handle XSD 1.1 finally going to REC. (danbri)

15:53:27 <cygri> ... the consequence would be that if OWL and RIF don't like something in RDF, we'd have to remove it

... the consequence would be that if OWL and RIF don't like something in RDF, we'd have to remove it

15:53:43 <sandro> q?

Sandro Hawke: q?

15:53:45 <cygri> ... actually, the most restrictive language is SPARQL

... actually, the most restrictive language is SPARQL

15:53:50 <AndyS> q+

Andy Seaborne: q+

15:54:08 <ericP> the bar for minimal implementation for SPARQL requires implementing a subset of these datatypes

Eric Prud'hommeaux: the bar for minimal implementation for SPARQL requires implementing a subset of these datatypes

15:54:17 <pfps> q+

Peter Patel-Schneider: q+

15:54:27 <danbri> where in http://www.w3.org/2007/06/OWLCharter.html or nearby does it say the OWL group is still chartered by W3C?

Dan Brickley: where in http://www.w3.org/2007/06/OWLCharter.html or nearby does it say the OWL group is still chartered by W3C?

15:54:28 <ericP> the behavior is defined for use with other XSD datatypes

Eric Prud'hommeaux: the behavior is defined for use with other XSD datatypes

15:54:34 <ivan> ack sandro

Ivan Herman: ack sandro

15:54:37 <ericP> (behavior of SPARQL)

Eric Prud'hommeaux: (behavior of SPARQL)

15:54:53 <cygri> ... so i would object to consulting the other WGs unless we do something that interferes with their work. adding a datatype doesn't

... so i would object to consulting the other WGs unless we do something that interferes with their work. adding a datatype doesn't

15:55:07 <cygri> sandro: we are chartered to look at compatibility

Sandro Hawke: we are chartered to look at compatibility

15:55:39 <davidwood> ack AndyS

David Wood: ack AndyS

15:56:09 <cygri> AndyS: SPARQL doens't "ban" anything. it's extensible. there's a core set of types that you need to implement. anythign else can be added

Andy Seaborne: SPARQL doens't "ban" anything. it's extensible. there's a core set of types that you need to implement. anythign else can be added

15:56:18 <davidwood> ack pfps

David Wood: ack pfps

15:56:40 <cygri> pfps: i'm agreeing with sandro

Peter Patel-Schneider: i'm agreeing with sandro

15:57:03 <cygri> ACTION: pfps to talk to the OWL WG about ISSUE-87 and xsd:duration

ACTION: pfps to talk to the OWL WG about ISSUE-87 and xsd:duration

15:57:03 <trackbot> Created ACTION-164 - Talk to the OWL WG about ISSUE-87 and xsd:duration [on Peter Patel-Schneider - due 2012-05-09].

Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-164 - Talk to the OWL WG about ISSUE-87 and xsd:duration [on Peter Patel-Schneider - due 2012-05-09].

15:57:18 <ivan> zakim, drop me

Ivan Herman: zakim, drop me

15:57:18 <Zakim> Ivan is being disconnected

Zakim IRC Bot: Ivan is being disconnected

15:57:18 <Zakim> -Ivan

Zakim IRC Bot: -Ivan

15:57:24 <cygri> ACTION-164?

ACTION-164?

15:57:24 <trackbot> ACTION-164 -- Peter Patel-Schneider to talk to the OWL WG about ISSUE-87 and xsd:duration -- due 2012-05-09 -- OPEN

Trackbot IRC Bot: ACTION-164 -- Peter Patel-Schneider to talk to the OWL WG about ISSUE-87 and xsd:duration -- due 2012-05-09 -- OPEN

15:57:24 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/actions/164

Trackbot IRC Bot: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/actions/164

15:57:36 <Zakim> -NickH

Zakim IRC Bot: -NickH

15:57:24 <cygri> Subtopic: HTML datatype

3.3. HTML datatype

15:57:47 <davidwood> PROPOSAL: RDF-WG will work on an HTML datatype that would be defined in RDF Concepts.

PROPOSED: RDF-WG will work on an HTML datatype that would be defined in RDF Concepts.

15:57:47 <davidwood>  http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-wg/2012May/0010.html

David Wood: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-wg/2012May/0010.html

15:57:56 <cygri> q+

q+

15:58:07 <davidwood> ack cygri

David Wood: ack cygri

15:58:50 <gavinc> cygri: Intent to see if there is anyone who thinks the WG shouldn't do the work to figure what the technical soution might be

Richard Cyganiak: Intent to see if there is anyone who thinks the WG shouldn't do the work to figure what the technical soution might be [ Scribe Assist by Gavin Carothers ]

15:59:20 <gavinc> ericP: This is like XMLLiteral but for HTML?

Eric Prud'hommeaux: This is like XMLLiteral but for HTML? [ Scribe Assist by Gavin Carothers ]

15:59:53 <PatH> suggest we add GLDWG and LDP to Peter's list of WGs to consult.

Patrick Hayes: suggest we add GLDWG and LDP to Peter's list of WGs to consult.

16:00:15 <cygri> cygri: yes. just for adding bits of HTML markup into strings.

Richard Cyganiak: yes. just for adding bits of HTML markup into strings.

16:00:42 <ericP> i've certainly wanted to use this in the past

Eric Prud'hommeaux: i've certainly wanted to use this in the past

16:00:46 <gavinc> +1 and willing to work on

Gavin Carothers: +1 and willing to work on

16:01:27 <gavinc> sandro, yes it might be very simple

Gavin Carothers: sandro, yes it might be very simple

16:01:46 <ericP> +1 i see a need for it

Eric Prud'hommeaux: +1 i see a need for it

16:01:46 <PatH> also add RDB2RDF to the WGs in Peters list.

Patrick Hayes: also add RDB2RDF to the WGs in Peters list.

16:01:52 <cygri> davidwood: can we get agreement that the working group wants to work on such a datatype?

David Wood: can we get agreement that the working group wants to work on such a datatype?

16:01:54 <Arnaud> +1

Arnaud Le Hors: +1

16:01:56 <davidwood> +1

David Wood: +1

16:01:57 <Zakim> -Souri

Zakim IRC Bot: -Souri

16:01:59 <PatH> +1

Patrick Hayes: +1

16:02:01 <AndyS> +1

Andy Seaborne: +1

16:02:03 <zwu2> +1

Zhe Wu: +1

16:02:09 <sandro> +1 assuming it might just be a string, with a different name so you know it's got markup

Sandro Hawke: +1 assuming it might just be a string, with a different name so you know it's got markup

16:02:12 <pfps> +0

Peter Patel-Schneider: +0

16:02:22 <AZ> +0.1

Antoine Zimmermann: +0.1

16:02:27 <danbri> +/- 0.001

Dan Brickley: +/- 0.001

16:03:22 <cygri> RESOLUTION:  RDF-WG will work on an HTML datatype that would be defined in RDF Concepts.

RESOLVED: RDF-WG will work on an HTML datatype that would be defined in RDF Concepts.

16:03:22 <cygri> Subtopic: Graph equivalence vs graph isomorphism

3.4. Graph equivalence vs graph isomorphism

16:03:27 <davidwood> PROPOSAL: Resolve http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/issues/86 (GraphIsomorphism): Incompatible definitions of “graph equivalence” between RDF Concepts and RDF Semantics by:

PROPOSED: Resolve http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/issues/86 (GraphIsomorphism): Incompatible definitions of “graph equivalence” between RDF Concepts and RDF Semantics by:

16:03:27 <davidwood> 	1.	renaming “graph equivalence” to “graph isomorphism” in RDF Concepts, and

David Wood: 1. renaming “graph equivalence” to “graph isomorphism” in RDF Concepts, and

16:03:27 <davidwood> 	2.	adding a sentence in the RDF Semantics section on simple entailment, stating that isomorphic graphs are equivalent under simple entailment?

David Wood: 2. adding a sentence in the RDF Semantics section on simple entailment, stating that isomorphic graphs are equivalent under simple entailment?

16:03:28 <davidwood>  http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-wg/2012May/0011.html

David Wood: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-wg/2012May/0011.html

16:03:50 <PatH> +1

Patrick Hayes: +1

16:03:52 <AZ> +1

Antoine Zimmermann: +1

16:04:20 <pfps> I've read it.

Peter Patel-Schneider: I've read it.

16:04:23 <AndyS> suggestion -- somewhere say "blank node isomorphism" (not essential)

Andy Seaborne: suggestion -- somewhere say "blank node isomorphism" (not essential)

16:04:34 <pfps> +0.5

Peter Patel-Schneider: +0.5

16:05:10 <PatH> dont like mentioning blank nodes more than absolutely necessary.

Patrick Hayes: dont like mentioning blank nodes more than absolutely necessary.

16:05:19 <pfps> I agree with Pat

Peter Patel-Schneider: I agree with Pat

16:05:29 <davidwood> +1

David Wood: +1

16:05:30 <PatH> so there.

Patrick Hayes: so there.

16:05:33 <zwu2> +1

Zhe Wu: +1

16:05:36 <danbri> ±¾³

Dan Brickley: ±¾³

16:06:11 <PatH> ithnk 86 was nem. con.

Patrick Hayes: ithnk 86 was nem. con.

16:06:11 <tbaker> +1 on 86

Thomas Baker: +1 on 86

16:06:17 <cygri> RESOLUTION: Resolve ISSUE-86 as proposed in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-wg/2012May/0011.html

RESOLVED: Resolve ISSUE-86 as proposed in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-wg/2012May/0011.html

16:07:00 <cygri> Topic: Turtle LC

4. Turtle LC

16:07:11 <cygri> gavinc: there are still issues with the document

Gavin Carothers: there are still issues with the document

16:07:39 <cygri> ... can we change definition of parsing from declarative to pseudocode?

... can we change definition of parsing from declarative to pseudocode?

16:07:47 <cygri> ... there was an objection to that earlier on

... there was an objection to that earlier on

16:08:07 <cygri> ... i'm happy to rewrite it to pseudocode as the current one is not quite complete/correct

... i'm happy to rewrite it to pseudocode as the current one is not quite complete/correct

16:08:30 <cygri> ... i don't recall who objected or why

... i don't recall who objected or why

16:08:59 <cygri> ericP: there was discussion on whether or not to define it recursively

Eric Prud'hommeaux: there was discussion on whether or not to define it recursively

16:09:29 <gavinc> http://barad-dur.carothers.name./~gavin/rdf-wg/rdf-turtle/#sec-parsing-triples

Gavin Carothers: http://barad-dur.carothers.name./~gavin/rdf-wg/rdf-turtle/#sec-parsing-triples

16:09:57 <danbri> regarding pseudocode, this seems to be the relevant Wikipedia documentation guidelines: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Algorithms_on_Wikipedia

Dan Brickley: regarding pseudocode, this seems to be the relevant Wikipedia documentation guidelines: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Algorithms_on_Wikipedia

16:10:32 <PatH> that page says  This page is currently inactive and is retained for historical reference

Patrick Hayes: that page says This page is currently inactive and is retained for historical reference

16:11:32 <cygri> (technical discussion on current definition of turtle parsing)

(technical discussion on current definition of turtle parsing)

16:12:07 <davidwood> q?

David Wood: q?

16:12:56 <cygri> davidwood: can you do may 16th for a new draft?

David Wood: can you do may 16th for a new draft?

16:13:13 <cygri> q+

q+

16:13:21 <PatH> good point.

Patrick Hayes: good point.

16:13:36 <davidwood> ack cygri

David Wood: ack cygri

16:13:42 <danbri> davidwood, what kind of discontent are you expecting re named graphs? Just that it's not done yet?

Dan Brickley: davidwood, what kind of discontent are you expecting re named graphs? Just that it's not done yet?

16:14:15 <davidwood> danbri, no, just emotional reactions to the fact that we have spent a lot of time on it.  Markets hate uncertainty.

David Wood: danbri, no, just emotional reactions to the fact that we have spent a lot of time on it. Markets hate uncertainty.

16:14:43 <Guus> +1 to both publications

Guus Schreiber: +1 to both publications

16:14:55 <PatH> everything refers to Concepts.

Patrick Hayes: everything refers to Concepts.

16:15:28 <cygri> davidwood: can we have new RDF Concepts draft too by 16th?

David Wood: can we have new RDF Concepts draft too by 16th?

16:15:32 <cygri> cygri: ok

Richard Cyganiak: ok

16:15:34 <PatH> q+

Patrick Hayes: q+

16:15:41 <davidwood> ack PatH

David Wood: ack PatH

16:16:04 <davidwood> Close Action-163

David Wood: Close ACTION-163

16:16:04 <trackbot> ACTION-163 Send mail to ietf-types to request the media type application/n-triples closed

Trackbot IRC Bot: ACTION-163 Send mail to ietf-types to request the media type application/n-triples closed

16:16:15 <Zakim> -pfps

Zakim IRC Bot: -pfps

16:16:27 <cygri> PatH: we should also get feedback on datatypes etc from the new linked data protocol WG and from RDB2RDF

Patrick Hayes: we should also get feedback on datatypes etc from the new linked data protocol WG and from RDB2RDF

16:17:08 <Zakim> -yvesr

Zakim IRC Bot: -yvesr

16:17:09 <cygri> davidwood: adjourned

David Wood: adjourned

16:17:11 <Zakim> -zwu2

Zakim IRC Bot: -zwu2

16:17:13 <zwu2> bye

Zhe Wu: bye

16:17:15 <Zakim> -Arnaud

Zakim IRC Bot: -Arnaud

16:17:21 <PatH> loitering

Patrick Hayes: loitering

16:17:32 <Zakim> -gavinc

Zakim IRC Bot: -gavinc

16:17:53 <cygri> RRSAgent, make logs public

RRSAgent, make logs public

16:18:03 <danbri> from Guus 0 mins ago, '"Space" would be acceptable for me. Vague enough :-). '

Dan Brickley: from Guus 0 mins ago, '"Space" would be acceptable for me. Vague enough :-). '

16:18:08 <sandro> zakim, who is on the call?

Sandro Hawke: zakim, who is on the call?

16:18:08 <Zakim> On the phone I see bhyland, Guus (muted), Tom_Baker, EricP, Sandro, cygri, AndyS, danbri?, AZ, PatH

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see bhyland, Guus (muted), Tom_Baker, EricP, Sandro, cygri, AndyS, danbri?, AZ, PatH

16:18:25 <Guus> zakim, unmute me

Guus Schreiber: zakim, unmute me

16:18:25 <Zakim> Guus should no longer be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: Guus should no longer be muted



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This revision (#1) generated 2012-05-02 16:24:23 UTC by 'rcygania2', comments: None