RDF Working Group Teleconference

Minutes of 28 March 2012

Seen
Andy Seaborne, Arnaud Le Hors, Charles Greer, David Wood, Eric Prud'hommeaux, Gavin Carothers, Guus Schreiber, Ivan Herman, Lee Feigenbaum, Nicholas Humfrey, Patrick Hayes, Pierre-Antoine Champin, Richard Cyganiak, Sandro Hawke, Souripriya Das, Ted Thibodeau, Yves Raimond
Scribe
Sandro Hawke, Lee Feigenbaum
IRC Log
Original and Editable Wiki Version
Resolutions
  1. accept minutes from last week link
  2. Close ISSUE-4, keeping N-triples as not deprecated link
Topics
14:26:05 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/03/28-rdf-wg-irc

RRSAgent IRC Bot: logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/03/28-rdf-wg-irc

14:26:07 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world

Trackbot IRC Bot: RRSAgent, make logs world

14:26:09 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 73394

Trackbot IRC Bot: Zakim, this will be 73394

14:26:09 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see SW_RDFWG()11:00AM scheduled to start in 34 minutes

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, trackbot; I see SW_RDFWG()11:00AM scheduled to start in 34 minutes

14:26:10 <trackbot> Meeting: RDF Working Group Teleconference
14:26:10 <trackbot> Date: 28 March 2012
14:57:29 <Zakim> SW_RDFWG()11:00AM has now started

(No events recorded for 31 minutes)

Zakim IRC Bot: SW_RDFWG()11:00AM has now started

14:57:36 <Zakim> +??P5

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P5

14:57:41 <AndyS> zakim, ??P5 is me

Andy Seaborne: zakim, ??P5 is me

14:57:41 <Zakim> +AndyS; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +AndyS; got it

14:59:34 <Zakim> +Guus_Schreiber

Zakim IRC Bot: +Guus_Schreiber

14:59:46 <Zakim> +cgreer

Zakim IRC Bot: +cgreer

15:00:13 <Zakim> +Arnaud

Zakim IRC Bot: +Arnaud

15:00:30 <Zakim> +pfps

Zakim IRC Bot: +pfps

15:01:12 <Zakim> +??P12

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P12

15:01:23 <ivan> zakim, dial ivan-voip

Ivan Herman: zakim, dial ivan-voip

15:01:23 <Zakim> ok, ivan; the call is being made

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, ivan; the call is being made

15:01:25 <Zakim> +Ivan

Zakim IRC Bot: +Ivan

15:01:25 <pchampin> zakim, ??P12 is me

Pierre-Antoine Champin: zakim, ??P12 is me

15:01:25 <Zakim> +pchampin; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +pchampin; got it

15:01:33 <Zakim> +gavinc

Zakim IRC Bot: +gavinc

15:01:35 <Zakim> +[OpenLink]

Zakim IRC Bot: +[OpenLink]

15:01:50 <MacTed> Zakim, [OpenLink] is temporarily me

Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, [OpenLink] is temporarily me

15:01:50 <Zakim> +MacTed; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +MacTed; got it

15:01:54 <MacTed> Zakim, mute me

Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, mute me

15:01:54 <Zakim> MacTed should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: MacTed should now be muted

15:02:24 <Zakim> +sandro

Zakim IRC Bot: +sandro

15:02:45 <Zakim> +davidwood

Zakim IRC Bot: +davidwood

15:02:53 <Zakim> +mhausenblas

Zakim IRC Bot: +mhausenblas

15:03:02 <Zakim> +??P21

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P21

15:03:41 <cygri> zakim, who is on the phone?

Richard Cyganiak: zakim, who is on the phone?

15:03:41 <Zakim> On the phone I see AndyS, Guus_Schreiber, cgreer, Arnaud (muted), pfps, pchampin, Ivan, gavinc, MacTed (muted), sandro, davidwood, mhausenblas, ??P21

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see AndyS, Guus_Schreiber, cgreer, Arnaud (muted), pfps, pchampin, Ivan, gavinc, MacTed (muted), sandro, davidwood, mhausenblas, ??P21

15:03:42 <yvesr> Zakim, ??P21 is me

Yves Raimond: Zakim, ??P21 is me

15:03:44 <Zakim> +yvesr; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +yvesr; got it

15:03:50 <cygri> zakim, mhausenblas is temporarily me

Richard Cyganiak: zakim, mhausenblas is temporarily me

15:03:50 <Zakim> +cygri; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +cygri; got it

15:04:08 <Zakim> +LeeF

Zakim IRC Bot: +LeeF

15:05:14 <sandro> scribe: sandro

(Scribe set to Sandro Hawke)

15:05:20 <sandro> proposed: accept minutes from last week

PROPOSED: accept minutes from last week

15:05:28 <sandro> resolved: accept minutes from last week

RESOLVED: accept minutes from last week

15:05:34 <sandro> topic: action item review

1. action item review

15:06:09 <Zakim> + +1.603.897.aaaa

Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.603.897.aaaa

15:06:14 <sandro> https://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/users/my

https://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/users/my

15:06:28 <sandro> davidwood: Anyone want to own up to progress on any actions?

David Wood: Anyone want to own up to progress on any actions?

15:06:42 <sandro> AndyS: I'm waiting for word from the editors that the draft is ready for review.

Andy Seaborne: I'm waiting for word from the editors that the draft is ready for review.

15:06:51 <LeeF> scribe: LeeF

(Scribe set to Lee Feigenbaum)

15:06:58 <gavinc> I claim victory on 150, and ...mostly... 155

Gavin Carothers: I claim victory on 150, and ...mostly... 155

15:07:04 <pchampin> I had the same understanding

Pierre-Antoine Champin: I had the same understanding

15:07:15 <davidwood> http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/actions/150

David Wood: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/actions/150

15:07:20 <LeeF> ACTION-150?

ACTION-150?

15:07:20 <trackbot> ACTION-150 -- Gavin Carothers to fail to update Turtle/N-Triples grammar to not use \u escaping in the local part of prefix names -- due 2012-03-21 -- OPEN

Trackbot IRC Bot: ACTION-150 -- Gavin Carothers to fail to update Turtle/N-Triples grammar to not use \u escaping in the local part of prefix names -- due 2012-03-21 -- OPEN

15:07:20 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/actions/150

Trackbot IRC Bot: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/actions/150

15:07:31 <NickH> Zakim, NickH is with yvesr

Nicholas Humfrey: Zakim, NickH is with yvesr

15:07:31 <Zakim> +NickH; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +NickH; got it

15:07:44 <davidwood> close ACTION-150

David Wood: close ACTION-150

15:07:44 <trackbot> ACTION-150 Fail to update Turtle/N-Triples grammar to not use \u escaping in the local part of prefix names closed

Trackbot IRC Bot: ACTION-150 Fail to update Turtle/N-Triples grammar to not use \u escaping in the local part of prefix names closed

15:07:45 <LeeF> gavinc: it was really easy and it did work

Gavin Carothers: it was really easy and it did work

15:07:54 <LeeF> AndyS: Is the doc ready for review?

Andy Seaborne: Is the doc ready for review?

15:08:01 <LeeF> gavinc: for my part, yes. ask eric too

Gavin Carothers: for my part, yes. ask eric too

15:08:19 <LeeF> AndyS: Excellent. OK if there are still bits to do

Andy Seaborne: Excellent. OK if there are still bits to do

15:08:34 <LeeF> gavinc: right, let's see if Eric is happy with the collections in turtle bits. in section 4

Gavin Carothers: right, let's see if Eric is happy with the collections in turtle bits. in section 4

15:08:54 <davidwood> Topic: Turtle

2. Turtle

15:09:02 <Zakim> +ericP

Zakim IRC Bot: +ericP

15:09:38 <LeeF> davidwood: tried to close all actions and issues from last week that were already closed and left ones that need further discussion. gavin, eric, andy, pierre-antoine -- should we go through actions or just pick off select ones?

David Wood: tried to close all actions and issues from last week that were already closed and left ones that need further discussion. gavin, eric, andy, pierre-antoine -- should we go through actions or just pick off select ones?

15:10:23 <LeeF> <lots of REALLY strong opinions registered in response>

<lots of REALLY strong opinions registered in response>

15:10:37 <ivan> scribenick: LeeF
15:10:45 <Zakim> +FabGandon

Zakim IRC Bot: +FabGandon

15:11:43 <LeeF> ISSUE-74?

ISSUE-74?

15:11:43 <trackbot> ISSUE-74 -- Prefixed names and slashes -- open

Trackbot IRC Bot: ISSUE-74 -- Prefixed names and slashes -- open

15:11:43 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/issues/74

Trackbot IRC Bot: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/issues/74

15:12:02 <LeeF> ACTION-151?

ACTION-151?

15:12:02 <trackbot> ACTION-151 -- Gavin Carothers to update issue 74 with new escaping rules -- due 2012-03-21 -- OPEN

Trackbot IRC Bot: ACTION-151 -- Gavin Carothers to update ISSUE-74 with new escaping rules -- due 2012-03-21 -- OPEN

15:12:02 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/actions/151

Trackbot IRC Bot: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/actions/151

15:12:11 <LeeF> davidwood: status of 151?

David Wood: status of 151?

15:12:19 <LeeF> gavinc: ok to close, but should also close ISSUE-74

Gavin Carothers: ok to close, but should also close ISSUE-74

15:12:26 <LeeF> ... no longer valid

... no longer valid

15:12:28 <davidwood> close ACTION-151

David Wood: close ACTION-151

15:12:28 <trackbot> ACTION-151 Update issue 74 with new escaping rules closed

Trackbot IRC Bot: ACTION-151 Update ISSUE-74 with new escaping rules closed

15:13:41 <LeeF> ACTION-152?

ACTION-152?

15:13:41 <trackbot> ACTION-152 -- Gavin Carothers to create new issue for :'s in the local part of prefix names -- due 2012-03-21 -- OPEN

Trackbot IRC Bot: ACTION-152 -- Gavin Carothers to create new issue for :'s in the local part of prefix names -- due 2012-03-21 -- OPEN

15:13:41 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/actions/152

Trackbot IRC Bot: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/actions/152

15:13:46 <davidwood> Closed ISSURE-74

David Wood: Closed ISSURE-74

15:13:53 <davidwood> Closed ISSUE-74

David Wood: Closed ISSUE-74

15:14:13 <LeeF> gavinc: issue is FB Open Graph Protocol, which have URIs with colons in local names, particularly in RDFa representation. When Facebook serializes it, you either get invalid Turtle (includes colons), or you get back full IRIs

Gavin Carothers: issue is FB Open Graph Protocol, which have URIs with colons in local names, particularly in RDFa representation. When Facebook serializes it, you either get invalid Turtle (includes colons), or you get back full IRIs

15:14:22 <LeeF> close ISSUE-74

close ISSUE-74

15:14:22 <trackbot> ISSUE-74 Prefixed names and slashes closed

Trackbot IRC Bot: ISSUE-74 Prefixed names and slashes closed

15:14:43 <LeeF> ericP: if we had influence, we could persuade them to put a backslash before the colon  and all would be ok

Eric Prud'hommeaux: if we had influence, we could persuade them to put a backslash before the colon and all would be ok

15:14:50 <LeeF> davidwood: shoudl we really be changing the standard based on this?

David Wood: shoudl we really be changing the standard based on this?

15:15:01 <LeeF> gavinc: problem is that RDFa is OK with it

Gavin Carothers: problem is that RDFa is OK with it

15:15:19 <LeeF> ... facebook is confused because the 2 specs are confusing

... facebook is confused because the 2 specs are confusing

15:15:23 <LeeF> davidwood: <redacted>

David Wood: <redacted>

15:16:09 <LeeF> davidwood: does anyone object to this change in turtle?

David Wood: does anyone object to this change in turtle?

15:16:35 <LeeF> q+ how does this affect SPARQL?

q+ how does this affect SPARQL?

15:16:39 <LeeF> q+ to ask how does this affect SPARQL?

q+ to ask how does this affect SPARQL?

15:16:42 <sandro> looking at http://ogp.me/ seeing og:locale:alternate and og:image:url and music:album:track etc...

Sandro Hawke: looking at http://ogp.me/ seeing og:locale:alternate and og:image:url and music:album:track etc...

15:16:46 <LeeF> ericP: seems like a safe change

Eric Prud'hommeaux: seems like a safe change

15:17:04 <NickH> Open Graph Protocol changes regularly...

Nicholas Humfrey: Open Graph Protocol changes regularly...

15:17:33 <sandro> +1 allowing colons in local parts

Sandro Hawke: +1 allowing colons in local parts

15:17:54 <ivan> +1 to sandro, i.e., transitively, to allow colons in local parts

Ivan Herman: +1 to sandro, i.e., transitively, to allow colons in local parts

15:18:01 <LeeF> ericP: 2 languages that are similar, one syntax difference that pepole are tripping over. other differences which haven't been come against. make our lives easier by allowing colons?

Eric Prud'hommeaux: 2 languages that are similar, one syntax difference that pepole are tripping over. other differences which haven't been come against. make our lives easier by allowing colons?

15:18:12 <LeeF> q?

q?

15:18:18 <LeeF> ack LeeF

ack LeeF

15:18:18 <Zakim> LeeF, you wanted to ask how does this affect SPARQL?

Zakim IRC Bot: LeeF, you wanted to ask how does this affect SPARQL?

15:18:22 <NickH> having colons in the local part is a bit confusing but it does look nice

Nicholas Humfrey: having colons in the local part is a bit confusing but it does look nice

15:18:26 <sandro> d'oh

Sandro Hawke: d'oh

15:18:28 <NickH> like a URN ;-)

Nicholas Humfrey: like a URN ;-)

15:18:31 <sandro> forgot about SPARQL

Sandro Hawke: forgot about SPARQL

15:18:42 <LeeF> LeeF: Uhh guys, what about SPARQL?

Lee Feigenbaum: Uhh guys, what about SPARQL?

15:18:42 <AndyS> Just on ":" (and not "/").  Technically, can be done (I think, not checked), but it breaks a lot of existing software in a confusing way.

Andy Seaborne: Just on ":" (and not "/"). Technically, can be done (I think, not checked), but it breaks a lot of existing software in a confusing way.

15:18:53 <LeeF> . Everyone : Oh.

. Everyone : Oh.

15:19:14 <LeeF> ivan: not a question of RDFa or SPARQL. there are millions of pages that already do this

Ivan Herman: not a question of RDFa or SPARQL. there are millions of pages that already do this

15:19:34 <LeeF> sandro: this isn't just a gorilla, it's sensible design

Sandro Hawke: this isn't just a gorilla, it's sensible design

15:19:49 <LeeF> ivan: would it trigger a new last call for SPARQL?

Ivan Herman: would it trigger a new last call for SPARQL?

15:20:17 <sandro> lee: There might be a new LC for SPARQL, so there MAY be a window here.

Lee Feigenbaum: There might be a new LC for SPARQL, so there MAY be a window here. [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ]

15:20:54 <AndyS> q+

Andy Seaborne: q+

15:21:02 <sandro> lee: If you want to do this, ask the SPARQL WG *today* please

Lee Feigenbaum: If you want to do this, ask the SPARQL WG *today* please [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ]

15:21:13 <Arnaud> q+

Arnaud Le Hors: q+

15:21:21 <ivan> ack AndyS

Ivan Herman: ack AndyS

15:21:25 <LeeF> AndyS: think it's technically possible, i could check

Andy Seaborne: think it's technically possible, i could check

15:21:33 <LeeF> ... i don't think it's just the 2 WGs involved

... i don't think it's just the 2 WGs involved

15:21:39 <LeeF> ... convincing implementers of this change shouldn't be dismissed

... convincing implementers of this change shouldn't be dismissed

15:21:44 <LeeF> ... turtle has been this way for a very long time

... turtle has been this way for a very long time

15:22:00 <LeeF> ... initial reaction will certainly be pushback (active and passive)

... initial reaction will certainly be pushback (active and passive)

15:22:07 <sandro> q?

Sandro Hawke: q?

15:22:13 <sandro> q+

Sandro Hawke: q+

15:22:18 <LeeF> ack Arnaud

ack Arnaud

15:22:23 <ivan> ack Arnaud

Ivan Herman: ack Arnaud

15:22:38 <ivan> q+

Ivan Herman: q+

15:22:41 <PatH> Sorry Im late (again).

Patrick Hayes: Sorry Im late (again).

15:22:42 <LeeF> Arnaud: we could consider asking facebook if they'd be willing to change. even though they are really big, they have a couple of lines of code to change in one place which might make the change everywhere

Arnaud Le Hors: we could consider asking facebook if they'd be willing to change. even though they are really big, they have a couple of lines of code to change in one place which might make the change everywhere

15:22:53 <davidwood> ack sandro

David Wood: ack sandro

15:22:55 <LeeF> gavinc: not enough for FB to change their parser, everyone who has created a web page using this has to change also

Gavin Carothers: not enough for FB to change their parser, everyone who has created a web page using this has to change also

15:23:10 <Zakim> +PatH

Zakim IRC Bot: +PatH

15:23:21 <ivan> q-

Ivan Herman: q-

15:23:26 <LeeF> sandro: this is OK in RDFa, so the issue is only when a OGP doc is expressed in turtle. why can't it be done as a qname type thing with a backslash after the prefix?

Sandro Hawke: this is OK in RDFa, so the issue is only when a OGP doc is expressed in turtle. why can't it be done as a qname type thing with a backslash after the prefix?

15:23:42 <sandro> ... me:sandro foaf:likes music:album\:disc

Sandro Hawke: ... me:sandro foaf:likes music:album\:disc

15:24:10 <LeeF> gavinc: yes

Gavin Carothers: yes

15:24:24 <sandro> sandro: that seems like a one line code change somewhere, in facebooks Turtle serializer.

Sandro Hawke: that seems like a one line code change somewhere, in facebooks Turtle serializer. [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ]

15:24:33 <LeeF> gavinc: not as big an issue now that we have reserved character escaping

Gavin Carothers: not as big an issue now that we have reserved character escaping

15:24:45 <LeeF> ... now it's merely an issue that people will make, rather than an unavoidable error

... now it's merely an issue that people will make, rather than an unavoidable error

15:25:02 <LeeF> sandro: easy error for turtle parser to catch and fix / help with

Sandro Hawke: easy error for turtle parser to catch and fix / help with

15:25:18 <AndyS> q+

Andy Seaborne: q+

15:26:06 <davidwood> ack AndyS

David Wood: ack AndyS

15:26:23 <AndyS> What about   a:b:c:d   which is currently legal (as  "a:b  :c :d ." )

Andy Seaborne: What about a:b:c:d which is currently legal (as "a:b :c :d ." )

15:26:28 <LeeF> AndyS: there is a corner case (see above)

Andy Seaborne: there is a corner case (see above)

15:26:42 <LeeF> AndyS: this changes turtle if you've been taking advantage of whitespace being optional

Andy Seaborne: this changes turtle if you've been taking advantage of whitespace being optional

15:26:56 <ericP> i'm willing to let that case go

Eric Prud'hommeaux: i'm willing to let that case go

15:26:57 <LeeF> sandro: off with their heads!

Sandro Hawke: off with their heads!

15:27:22 <LeeF> AndyS: probably only a potential issue with machine outputted turtle

Andy Seaborne: probably only a potential issue with machine outputted turtle

15:27:28 <LeeF> (luddites emerge)

(luddites emerge)

15:27:40 <sandro> ceci n'est pas un pipe

Sandro Hawke: ceci n'est pas un pipe

15:28:01 <sandro> ceci n'est pas une pipe

Sandro Hawke: ceci n'est pas une pipe

15:28:04 <LeeF> ACTION: Andy to see if allowing colons in prefix names is an ambiguity

ACTION: Andy to see if allowing colons in prefix names is an ambiguity

15:28:04 <trackbot> Created ACTION-160 - See if allowing colons in prefix names is an ambiguity [on Andy Seaborne - due 2012-04-04].

Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-160 - See if allowing colons in prefix names is an ambiguity [on Andy Seaborne - due 2012-04-04].

15:28:41 <LeeF> ericP: is that action in SPARQL?

Eric Prud'hommeaux: is that action in SPARQL?

15:28:46 <LeeF> AndyS: if it works in SPARQL, it will work in Turtle

Andy Seaborne: if it works in SPARQL, it will work in Turtle

15:29:20 <LeeF> sandro: what about asking the SPARQL WG?

Sandro Hawke: what about asking the SPARQL WG?

15:30:21 <LeeF> LeeF: will the RDF WG's decision be predicated on SPARQL WG's willingness?

Lee Feigenbaum: will the RDF WG's decision be predicated on SPARQL WG's willingness?

15:30:26 <LeeF> sandro: would rather not have to make that decision now

Sandro Hawke: would rather not have to make that decision now

15:30:27 <LeeF> LeeF: OK

Lee Feigenbaum: OK

15:30:28 <sandro> oh no a Lethal Turtle....

Sandro Hawke: oh no a Lethal Turtle....

15:31:24 <LeeF> gavinc: they're already generating legal turtle (with full IRIs)

Gavin Carothers: they're already generating legal turtle (with full IRIs)

15:31:32 <LeeF> AndyS: that de-motivates the change, right?

Andy Seaborne: that de-motivates the change, right?

15:31:43 <LeeF> sandro: we'd be accommodating everyone out in the world who is writing OGP data

Sandro Hawke: we'd be accommodating everyone out in the world who is working with OGP data

15:31:52 <LeeF> gavinc: issue is more complicated than....

Gavin Carothers: issue is more complicated than....

15:31:53 <sandro> s/writing/working with/
15:32:23 <LeeF> davidwood: can ask FB to change, or ask SPARQL WG to work with us to align RDF + RDFa + SPARQL

David Wood: can ask FB to change, or ask SPARQL WG to work with us to align RDF + RDFa + SPARQL

15:32:40 <LeeF> ... i think that taking this opportunity to align w3c syntaxes is a useful and valuable thing to do

... i think that taking this opportunity to align w3c syntaxes is a useful and valuable thing to do

15:32:48 <LeeF> sandro: we should look at all characters that RDFa allows there, then

Sandro Hawke: we should look at all characters that RDFa allows there, then

15:32:59 <LeeF> davidwood: perfect is the enemy of good

David Wood: perfect is the enemy of good

15:33:18 <ericP> q+ to say we get to make exactly one step

Eric Prud'hommeaux: q+ to say we get to make exactly one step

15:33:41 <LeeF> sandro: i'm happy with adding colon to sparql. andy said we should ask FB to change. we'd be asking them to change their predicate names, and there's no way they'll do that

Sandro Hawke: i'm happy with adding colon to sparql. andy said we should ask FB to change. we'd be asking them to change their predicate names, and there's no way they'll do that

15:33:50 <LeeF> AndyS: that's not the case - just asking them to output legal turtle

Andy Seaborne: that's not the case - just asking them to output legal turtle

15:33:54 <LeeF> sandro: but that's not actually a problem

Sandro Hawke: but that's not actually a problem

15:34:03 <LeeF> sandro: they'd have to change predicate names to solve this problem

Sandro Hawke: they'd have to change predicate names to solve this problem

15:34:09 <LeeF> AndyS: they can continue to use existing predicate names

Andy Seaborne: they can continue to use existing predicate names

15:34:45 <LeeF> ericP: right now, to use existing pred names they can output full URIs - not as pleasant to use - or can output prefix names with backslashes. with changes, they can output prefix names without backslashes. it's a nice practice in general to have local names without characters that need to be escaped

Eric Prud'hommeaux: right now, to use existing pred names they can output full URIs - not as pleasant to use - or can output prefix names with backslashes. with changes, they can output prefix names without backslashes. it's a nice practice in general to have local names without characters that need to be escaped

15:35:09 <LeeF> ericP: we only get to make one step here - backslashes are new, so there arent a lot of implementations to stay compatible with.

Eric Prud'hommeaux: we only get to make one step here - backslashes are new, so there arent a lot of implementations to stay compatible with.

15:35:17 <AndyS> FB can currently either use <a:b:c>, and will be able to use a:b\:c (future turtle) so it's style, not technical.

Andy Seaborne: FB can currently either use <a:b:c>, and will be able to use a:b\:c (future turtle) so it's style, not technical.

15:35:59 <AndyS> CURIEs which post-date SPARQL, choose to differ.

Andy Seaborne: CURIEs which post-date SPARQL, choose to differ.

15:36:22 <LeeF> ericP: tried to get CURIEs into SPARQL, but couldn't be done because of rest of the grammar. property paths make this worse

Eric Prud'hommeaux: tried to get CURIEs into SPARQL, but couldn't be done because of rest of the grammar. property paths make this worse

15:36:32 <LeeF> ... don't think we'll ever have CURIEs fitting in turtle and sparql

... don't think we'll ever have CURIEs fitting in turtle and sparql

15:36:32 <sandro> Agreed, AndyS.  I think our motivation is just to make FB's vocab easier to work with in Turtle and Sparql (no need for \ )

Sandro Hawke: Agreed, AndyS. I think our motivation is just to make FB's vocab easier to work with in Turtle and Sparql (no need for \ )

15:36:35 <LeeF> AndyS: agree

Andy Seaborne: agree

15:36:42 <sandro> q?

Sandro Hawke: q?

15:36:50 <ericP> ack me

Eric Prud'hommeaux: ack me

15:36:50 <Zakim> ericP, you wanted to say we get to make exactly one step

Zakim IRC Bot: ericP, you wanted to say we get to make exactly one step

15:36:55 <davidwood> ack ericP

David Wood: ack ericP

15:37:08 <LeeF> davidwood: gavin, will you write up this issue?

David Wood: gavin, will you write up this issue?

15:37:11 <LeeF> gavinc: ayup

Gavin Carothers: ayup

15:37:21 <LeeF> sandro: can we just make a decision?

Sandro Hawke: can we just make a decision?

15:38:39 <sandro> PROPOSED: Change the Turtle syntax to allow colons in local parts, IFF the SPARQL WG agrees to change SPARQL to match, in order to make it easier for people to work with facebook's style of property names.

PROPOSED: Change the Turtle syntax to allow colons in local parts, IFF the SPARQL WG agrees to change SPARQL to match, in order to make it easier for people to work with facebook's style of property names.

15:38:54 <ivan> +1

Ivan Herman: +1

15:38:56 <ericP> +1

Eric Prud'hommeaux: +1

15:38:59 <gavinc> +1

Gavin Carothers: +1

15:39:00 <davidwood> +1

David Wood: +1

15:39:01 <pchampin> +1

Pierre-Antoine Champin: +1

15:39:01 <yvesr> +0

Yves Raimond: +0

15:39:04 <sandro> +1

Sandro Hawke: +1

15:39:05 <AndyS> abstain

Andy Seaborne: abstain

15:39:06 <LeeF> 0 (-1 if there is any grammar ambiguity)

0 (-1 if there is any grammar ambiguity)

15:39:10 <MacTed> +1

Ted Thibodeau: +1

15:39:27 <sandro> (assuming no grammar ambiguity of course)

Sandro Hawke: (assuming no grammar ambiguity of course)

15:39:32 <Souri> 0

Souripriya Das: 0

15:39:47 <sandro> (other than whitespace.   a:b:c:d )

Sandro Hawke: (other than whitespace. a:b:c:d )

15:39:57 <NickH> +1

Nicholas Humfrey: +1

15:40:10 <LeeF> ericP: that backwards incompatibility is something that I'm ok with

Eric Prud'hommeaux: that backwards incompatibility is something that I'm ok with

15:40:54 <sandro> PROPOSED: Change the Turtle syntax to allow colons in local parts, IFF the SPARQL WG agrees to change SPARQL to match, in order to make it easier for people to work with facebook's style of property names.   We understand this will change how turtle lines like a:b:c:d are parsed; we don't need to support documents written like that.

PROPOSED: Change the Turtle syntax to allow colons in local parts, IFF the SPARQL WG agrees to change SPARQL to match, in order to make it easier for people to work with facebook's style of property names. We understand this will change how turtle lines like a:b:c:d are parsed; we don't need to support documents written like that.

15:41:04 <ericP> +1

Eric Prud'hommeaux: +1

15:41:06 <LeeF> (this seems like solving a problem that probably doesn't exist, but it may someday make it easier for me to write turtle, so... *shrug*. The non-WG-member implementers may howl.)

(this seems like solving a problem that probably doesn't exist, but it may someday make it easier for me to write turtle, so... *shrug*. The non-WG-member implementers may howl.)

15:41:21 <AndyS> abstain (this is not a problem)

Andy Seaborne: abstain LeeF: (this is not a problem)

15:41:21 <LeeF> s/(this/LeeF: (this/
15:41:37 <LeeF> abstain (this is not a problem)

abstain (this is not a problem)

15:42:24 <sandro> sandro: It's not nearly as big a problem as it sounded at the begging of this problem.

Sandro Hawke: It's not nearly as big a problem as it sounded at the begging of this problem. [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ]

15:43:22 <LeeF> AndyS: there's not a technical problem, we're asking implementers and others to do something

Andy Seaborne: there's not a technical problem, we're asking implementers and others to do something

15:43:30 <LeeF> sandro: agree that it's a style issue at this point

Sandro Hawke: agree that it's a style issue at this point

15:43:46 <LeeF> davidwood: we could solve this just by acknowledging it's not a problem, closing the issue, etc.

David Wood: we could solve this just by acknowledging it's not a problem, closing the issue, etc.

15:43:55 <LeeF> sandro: the people who would be unhappy are those who would have to write lots of backslashes

Sandro Hawke: the people who would be unhappy are those who would have to write lots of backslashes

15:44:43 <AndyS> # is also a contentious character for the same reasons.

Andy Seaborne: # is also a contentious character for the same reasons.

15:45:18 <ericP> +1

Eric Prud'hommeaux: +1

15:45:28 <LeeF> davidwood: I propose that we close ACTION-152, take no action, and open no new issue

David Wood: I propose that we close ACTION-152, take no action, and open no new issue

15:45:35 <LeeF> sandro: I won't object, but I don't think this is a good idea

Sandro Hawke: I won't object, but I don't think this is a good idea

15:45:46 <sandro> -0 I think we'll be very sad writing a lot of backslashes for a lot of years

Sandro Hawke: -0 I think we'll be very sad writing a lot of backslashes for a lot of years

15:46:14 <ericP> i note that sandro and i differ only in the degree to which we are concearned about facebook users. we both agree that a change is the best choice

Eric Prud'hommeaux: i note that sandro and i differ only in the degree to which we are concearned about facebook users. we both agree that a change is the best choice

15:46:17 <sandro> but whatever.  I tend to be perfectionist about things like that.

Sandro Hawke: but whatever. I tend to be perfectionist about things like that.

15:46:23 <PatH> backslashes have rights too!

Patrick Hayes: backslashes have rights too!

15:46:24 <gavinc> -0 I think we'll be writing parsers that accept invalid Turtle in a year or two

Gavin Carothers: -0 I think we'll be writing parsers that accept invalid Turtle in a year or two

15:46:38 <sandro> Oh, YES gavin.

Sandro Hawke: Oh, YES gavin.

15:46:56 <PatH> zakim, mute me

Patrick Hayes: zakim, mute me

15:46:56 <Zakim> PatH should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: PatH should now be muted

15:47:24 <AndyS> If we do this, then do it properly : not rush a proposal through ATM.  Ask FB + check the grammars.

Andy Seaborne: If we do this, then do it properly : not rush a proposal through ATM. Ask FB + check the grammars.

15:47:43 <PatH> +1 Andy

Patrick Hayes: +1 Andy

15:48:00 <LeeF> gavinc: other issue: turtle does not specify how errors are handled

Gavin Carothers: other issue: turtle does not specify how errors are handled

15:48:09 <LeeF> ... so it isn't clear to me that if i parsed this that i would not be conforming

... so it isn't clear to me that if i parsed this that i would not be conforming

15:48:24 <LeeF> ericP: we have a language, and that's not the language

Eric Prud'hommeaux: we have a language, and that's not the language

15:48:32 <LeeF> gavinc: but conformance is expressed in terms of positive parsing

Gavin Carothers: but conformance is expressed in terms of positive parsing

15:48:46 <Guus> I suggest that editors make a proposal with "feature at risk" note, and ask explicit feedback from parties concerned

Guus Schreiber: I suggest that editors make a proposal with "feature at risk" note, and ask explicit feedback from parties concerned

15:49:13 <MacTed> Zakim, unmute me

Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, unmute me

15:49:13 <Zakim> MacTed should no longer be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: MacTed should no longer be muted

15:49:33 <PatH> +1 Guus. Lets be strictly proper. diplomacy and all.

Patrick Hayes: +1 Guus. Lets be strictly proper. diplomacy and all.

15:50:09 <gavinc> +1 Guus!

Gavin Carothers: +1 Guus!

15:50:19 <LeeF> davidwood: let's accept guus's suggestion

David Wood: let's accept guus's suggestion

15:50:32 <MacTed> Zakim, mute me

Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, mute me

15:50:32 <Zakim> MacTed should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: MacTed should now be muted

15:50:50 <LeeF> davidwood: andy, will you ask SPARQL WG about this?

David Wood: andy, will you ask SPARQL WG about this?

15:50:52 <LeeF> AndyS: ok

Andy Seaborne: ok

15:50:56 <LeeF> davidwood: what about asking FB?

David Wood: what about asking FB?

15:50:59 <LeeF> sandro: there's nothing to ask FB!

Sandro Hawke: there's nothing to ask FB!

15:51:17 <PatH> not ask, but inform facebook. diplomacy.

Patrick Hayes: not ask, but inform facebook. diplomacy.

15:51:25 <MacTed> FB is now generating valid Turtle.  would whatever change we're contemplating *break* that?  if not, nothing to ask/inform about...

Ted Thibodeau: FB is now generating valid Turtle. would whatever change we're contemplating *break* that? if not, nothing to ask/inform about...

15:51:40 <ericP>  /invite mr_facebook #rdf-wg

Eric Prud'hommeaux: /invite mr_facebook #rdf-wg

15:52:17 <ericP> +1 to sandro's point

Eric Prud'hommeaux: +1 to sandro's point

15:52:22 <yvesr> is there any example of that in the wild?

Yves Raimond: is there any example of that in the wild?

15:52:34 <ivan> q+

Ivan Herman: q+

15:52:35 <PatH> like for example maybe fbk are planning a change....

Patrick Hayes: like for example maybe fbk are planning a change....

15:52:40 <ericP> noting that fb has some influece on how people expect to use their data

Eric Prud'hommeaux: noting that fb has some influece on how people expect to use their data

15:52:42 <davidwood> ack ivan

David Wood: ack ivan

15:52:45 <yvesr> (of people writing broken Turtle following Facebook's OGP?)

Yves Raimond: (of people writing broken Turtle following Facebook's OGP?)

15:53:20 <sandro> sandro: So the question for facebook is whether they would prefer people to have to use backslashes in working with their data in turtle and SPARQL.

Sandro Hawke: So the question for facebook is whether they would prefer people to have to use backslashes in working with their data in turtle and SPARQL. [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ]

15:53:21 <PatH> zakim, unmute me

Patrick Hayes: zakim, unmute me

15:53:21 <Zakim> PatH should no longer be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: PatH should no longer be muted

15:54:39 <PatH> it does no actual harm to just *talk* to North Korea

Patrick Hayes: it does no actual harm to just *talk* to North Korea

15:54:47 <AndyS> q+

Andy Seaborne: q+

15:54:54 <davidwood> ack AndyS

David Wood: ack AndyS

15:55:13 <LeeF> AndyS: if we do this, I think # will be the next character to come up - to handle fragments

Andy Seaborne: if we do this, I think # will be the next character to come up - to handle fragments

15:56:14 <LeeF> (discussion of how that would conflict with comments)

(discussion of how that would conflict with comments)

15:56:45 <ericP> what about non-breaking zero-width trailing combining character whitespace?

Eric Prud'hommeaux: what about non-breaking zero-width trailing combining character whitespace?

15:57:12 <LeeF> ACTION: Andy to ask SPARQL WG about Colon-gate 2012

ACTION: Andy to ask SPARQL WG about Colon-gate 2012

15:57:12 <trackbot> Created ACTION-161 - Ask SPARQL WG about Colon-gate 2012 [on Andy Seaborne - due 2012-04-04].

Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-161 - Ask SPARQL WG about Colon-gate 2012 [on Andy Seaborne - due 2012-04-04].

15:57:45 <sandro> So -- the big motive for allowing colons in local names is because people will be writing parsers to accept them ANYWAY, since people will be writing them anyway.

Sandro Hawke: So -- the big motive for allowing colons in local names is because people will be writing parsers to accept them ANYWAY, since people will be writing them anyway.

15:57:46 <LeeF> davidwood: now for an easy topic

David Wood: now for an easy topic

15:58:19 <PatH> zakim, mute me

Patrick Hayes: zakim, mute me

15:58:27 <Zakim> +Arnaud

Zakim IRC Bot: +Arnaud

15:58:34 <Zakim> -Arnaud

Zakim IRC Bot: -Arnaud

15:58:37 <Zakim> PatH should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: PatH should now be muted

15:58:47 <PatH> crackle, buzz, beep, rattle, smack

Patrick Hayes: crackle, buzz, beep, rattle, smack

15:59:13 <Guus> let's pls finish the Turtle discussion, we have used enough time on Named Graphs to wait another week

Guus Schreiber: let's pls finish the Turtle discussion, we have used enough time on Named Graphs to wait another week

15:59:26 <Zakim> -ericP

Zakim IRC Bot: -ericP

15:59:30 <AndyS> sandro - reasonable claim - do we have evidence (seems likely but you said "will be" which is absolute)

Andy Seaborne: sandro - reasonable claim - do we have evidence (seems likely but you said "will be" which is absolute)

15:59:57 <Zakim> +ericP

Zakim IRC Bot: +ericP

16:00:15 <gavinc> http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/rdf/raw-file/default/rdf-turtle/index.html#n-triples-compatibility

Gavin Carothers: http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/rdf/raw-file/default/rdf-turtle/index.html#n-triples-compatibility

16:01:02 <LeeF> gavin: should a backwards incompatible escape sequence be an issue?

Gavin Carothers: should a backwards incompatible escape sequence be an issue?

16:01:08 <LeeF> davidwood: won't other changes break b.c.?

David Wood: won't other changes break b.c.?

16:01:10 <LeeF> gavinc: yes

Gavin Carothers: yes

16:01:15 <LeeF> davidwood: why is this a special issue?

David Wood: why is this a special issue?

16:01:18 <sandro> AndyS, I have no evidence people will forget the backslashes, but I think I heard some parser writers on the call saying they expected they'd allow colons without backslashes, because they thought users would forget the backslashes.

Sandro Hawke: AndyS, I have no evidence people will forget the backslashes, but I think I heard some parser writers on the call saying they expected they'd allow colons without backslashes, because they thought users would forget the backslashes.

16:01:19 <LeeF> gavinc: others are just with encoding

Gavin Carothers: others are just with encoding

16:02:04 <Zakim> -Arnaud

Zakim IRC Bot: -Arnaud

16:02:08 <LeeF> AndyS: i've never seen any data with \b \f in turtle, so...

Andy Seaborne: i've never seen any data with \b \f in turtle, so...

16:02:32 <LeeF> davidwood: there could be old data around with \b or \f

David Wood: there could be old data around with \b or \f

16:02:37 <LeeF> AndyS: would change from illegal to legal

Andy Seaborne: would change from illegal to legal

16:02:41 <LeeF> davidwood: non issue for me

David Wood: non issue for me

16:02:42 <LeeF> gavinc: me too

Gavin Carothers: me too. Zhe brought it up

16:02:46 <PatH> \b***** this for a topic of conversation.

Patrick Hayes: \b***** this for a topic of conversation.

16:03:00 <Zakim> +Arnaud

Zakim IRC Bot: +Arnaud

16:03:15 <LeeF> AndyS: i haven't seen anything that indicates this is anything more than a question

Andy Seaborne: i haven't seen anything that indicates this is anything more than a question

16:03:20 <davidwood> Zhe brought this up to Gavin off list.  Gavin sent it to the list.

David Wood: Zhe brought this up to Gavin off list. Gavin sent it to the list.

16:03:24 <LeeF> gavinc: offlist indications to the contrary

Gavin Carothers: offlist indications to the contrary

16:03:39 <Guus> I suggest this is editorial discretion of the editors, seems small enough, but pls make an explicit note in the document

Guus Schreiber: I suggest this is editorial discretion of the editors, seems small enough, but pls make an explicit note in the document

16:03:39 <Zakim> -Arnaud

Zakim IRC Bot: -Arnaud

16:03:42 <LeeF> s/gavinc: me too/gavinc: me too. Zhe brought it up
16:03:51 <LeeF> davidwood: let's leave this to the editors and move on

David Wood: let's leave this to the editors and move on

16:03:56 <LeeF> ISSUE-4?

ISSUE-4?

16:03:56 <trackbot> ISSUE-4 -- Do we depecate N-Triples and use Turtle instead? -- open

Trackbot IRC Bot: ISSUE-4 -- Do we depecate N-Triples and use Turtle instead? -- open

16:03:56 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/issues/4

Trackbot IRC Bot: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/issues/4

16:04:05 <Zakim> +Arnaud

Zakim IRC Bot: +Arnaud

16:04:58 <LeeF> AndyS: people use n-triples, it's faster for loading

Andy Seaborne: people use n-triples, it's faster for loading

16:05:01 <ericP> +1

Eric Prud'hommeaux: +1

16:05:03 <cgreer> +1

Charles Greer: +1

16:05:04 <LeeF> davidwood: should we resolve issue-4 and keep n-triples?

David Wood: should we resolve ISSUE-4 and keep n-triples?

16:05:07 <LeeF> AndyS: yes

Andy Seaborne: yes

16:05:09 <LeeF> +1

+1

16:05:20 <Souri> +1 to not deprecating N-Triples

Souripriya Das: +1 to not deprecating N-Triples

16:05:26 <LeeF> ivan: what about discussion with Oracle?

Ivan Herman: what about discussion with Oracle?

16:05:32 <LeeF> davidwood: Oracle wants to keep n-triples

David Wood: Oracle wants to keep n-triples

16:05:44 <ivan> 1

Ivan Herman: 1

16:05:46 <LeeF> (excellentuse of the word "apoplectic")

(excellentuse of the word "apoplectic")

16:06:22 <PatH> +1 to closing issue 4.

Patrick Hayes: +1 to closing ISSUE-4.

16:06:36 <MacTed> +1

Ted Thibodeau: +1

16:06:41 <Guus> +1

Guus Schreiber: +1

16:06:42 <Souri> +1 to closing it with "not deprecating N-Triples"

Souripriya Das: +1 to closing it with "not deprecating N-Triples"

16:06:58 <LeeF> RESOLVED: Close ISSUE-4, keeping N-triples as not deprecated

RESOLVED: Close ISSUE-4, keeping N-triples as not deprecated

16:07:10 <LeeF> close ISSUE-4

close ISSUE-4

16:07:10 <trackbot> ISSUE-4 Do we depecate N-Triples and use Turtle instead? closed

Trackbot IRC Bot: ISSUE-4 Do we depecate N-Triples and use Turtle instead? closed

16:07:25 <LeeF> davidwood: all done with turtle!

David Wood: all done with turtle!

16:07:32 <LeeF> davidwood: no time for named graph semantivcs

David Wood: no time for named graph semantivcs

16:07:48 <LeeF> davidwood: let's put solution design .1 on the queue for next week

David Wood: let's put solution design .1 on the queue for next week

16:07:54 <LeeF> davidwood: AOB?

David Wood: AOB?

16:07:58 <LeeF> Guus: how about clarifying questions?

Guus Schreiber: how about clarifying questions?

16:08:15 <PatH> zakim, unmute me

Patrick Hayes: zakim, unmute me

16:08:15 <Zakim> PatH should no longer be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: PatH should no longer be muted

16:08:16 <LeeF> Guus: the rdf:Graph construct is not used in a use case. is that by accident?

Guus Schreiber: the rdf:Graph construct is not used in a use case. is that by accident?

16:08:21 <PatH> +q

Patrick Hayes: +q

16:08:29 <LeeF> ... they used GraphStateContainer construct

... they used GraphStateContainer construct

16:08:45 <LeeF> sandro: i assume he'd have to use it for the inference case (separation of inference and one of the two ways you'd do endorsement)

Sandro Hawke: i assume he'd have to use it for the inference case (separation of inference and one of the two ways you'd do endorsement)

16:10:09 <Zakim> -gavinc

Zakim IRC Bot: -gavinc

16:10:31 <MacTed> Zakim, unmute me

Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, unmute me

16:10:31 <Zakim> MacTed should no longer be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: MacTed should no longer be muted

16:10:37 <LeeF> Guus: from use cases, we want to see that if you fetch something at a particular time, there's no guarantee that it will be there at a future time

Guus Schreiber: from use cases, we want to see that if you fetch something at a particular time, there's no guarantee that it will be there at a future time

16:11:04 <LeeF> sandro: quick strawpoll here

Sandro Hawke: quick strawpoll here

16:11:11 <LeeF> ... i intentionally left g-boxes out of 6.1 design

... i intentionally left g-boxes out of 6.1 design

16:11:17 <LeeF> ... because they seem like an extension point

... because they seem like an extension point

16:11:22 <LeeF> ... should i put them in properly?

... should i put them in properly?

16:11:29 <LeeF> PatH: NO.

Patrick Hayes: NO.

16:11:36 <LeeF> ... let's get it clear without the g-boxes

... let's get it clear without the g-boxes

16:11:38 <LeeF> sandro: i agree

Sandro Hawke: i agree

16:12:27 <LeeF> PatH: is the association, the rdf:graph connection, holds between a resource and a graph?

Patrick Hayes: is the association, the rdf:graph connection, holds between a resource and a graph?

16:12:28 <LeeF> sandro: yes

Sandro Hawke: yes

16:12:39 <LeeF> PatH: is that intended to extend beyond the document? is it asserted by the document?

Patrick Hayes: is that intended to extend beyond the document? is it asserted by the document?

16:12:41 <LeeF> sandro: yes

Sandro Hawke: yes

16:12:47 <LeeF> PatH: consider 2 docs with no default graph.

Patrick Hayes: consider 2 docs with no default graph.

16:12:50 <LeeF> u1 { a b c}

u1 { a b c}

16:12:51 <LeeF> and

and

16:12:54 <LeeF> u1 { d e f}

u1 { d e f}

16:13:08 <LeeF> do those conclude: u1 {a b c . d e f } ?

do those conclude: u1 {a b c . d e f } ?

16:13:15 <LeeF> sandro: no, those are logically inconsistent

Sandro Hawke: no, those are logically inconsistent

16:13:34 <LeeF> PatH: i think there is something that needs to be fixed then

Patrick Hayes: i think there is something that needs to be fixed then

16:16:47 <LeeF> PatH: above case says it's not ok to use same label in mutiple documents -- in ??? semantics, it's perfectly fine and entails the merge

Patrick Hayes: above case says it's not ok to use same label in mutiple documents -- in ??? semantics, it's perfectly fine and entails the merge

16:17:04 <LeeF> sandro: if you're going to do that you need to be explicit about that fact

Sandro Hawke: if you're going to do that you need to be explicit about that fact

16:17:18 <ericP> +1 to PatH

Eric Prud'hommeaux: +1 to PatH

16:17:19 <LeeF> PatH: a lot of our discussion turns on people having different intuitions about this point

Patrick Hayes: a lot of our discussion turns on people having different intuitions about this point

16:17:29 <AndyS> {...} is not automatically a graph, it can be part of a graph but all graph must be in same doc.

Andy Seaborne: {...} is not automatically a graph, it can be part of a graph but all graph must be in same doc.

16:17:43 <LeeF> davidwood: more next week

David Wood: more next week

16:17:48 <sandro> (  "this point" being what happens when you have u1 { a b c} in one document and u1 { d e f} in another.

Sandro Hawke: ( "this point" being what happens when you have u1 { a b c} in one document and u1 { d e f} in another.

16:17:49 <Zakim> - +1.603.897.aaaa

Zakim IRC Bot: - +1.603.897.aaaa

16:17:50 <LeeF> davidwood: Adjourned.

David Wood: Adjourned.

16:17:52 <Zakim> -PatH

Zakim IRC Bot: -PatH

16:17:54 <Zakim> -Arnaud

Zakim IRC Bot: -Arnaud

16:17:56 <Zakim> -sandro

Zakim IRC Bot: -sandro

16:17:57 <Zakim> -ericP

Zakim IRC Bot: -ericP

16:17:58 <Zakim> -davidwood

Zakim IRC Bot: -davidwood

16:17:59 <Zakim> -Ivan

Zakim IRC Bot: -Ivan

16:18:01 <Zakim> -cgreer

Zakim IRC Bot: -cgreer

16:18:02 <Zakim> -Guus_Schreiber

Zakim IRC Bot: -Guus_Schreiber

16:18:02 <Zakim> -yvesr

Zakim IRC Bot: -yvesr

16:18:04 <Zakim> -MacTed

Zakim IRC Bot: -MacTed

16:18:05 <Zakim> -LeeF

Zakim IRC Bot: -LeeF

16:18:14 <Zakim> -cygri

Zakim IRC Bot: -cygri

16:18:17 <Zakim> -pchampin

Zakim IRC Bot: -pchampin

16:18:20 <Zakim> -AndyS

Zakim IRC Bot: -AndyS

16:18:29 <LeeF> c'mon common scribe, get moving

c'mon common scribe, get moving



Formatted by CommonScribe


This revision (#1) generated 2012-03-28 16:23:17 UTC by 'lfeigenb', comments: 'minutes!'