RDF Working Group Teleconference

Minutes of 04 May 2011

Seen
Alex Hall, Andy Seaborne, Antoine Zimmermann, Christopher Matheus, David Wood, Eric Prud'hommeaux, Fabien Gandon, Gavin Carothers, Ivan Herman, Lee Feigenbaum, Matteo Brunati, Mischa Tuffield, Nathan Rixham, Olivier Corby, Patrick Hayes, Pierre-Antoine Champin, Sandro Hawke, Scott Bauer, Souripriya Das, Steve Harris, Ted Thibodeau, Thomas Steiner, Unknown Russell, Zhe Wu
Chair
David Wood
Scribe
Thomas Steiner
IRC Log
Original and Editable Wiki Version
Resolutions
  1. closing ACTION-34 link
  2. ACTION-42 herewith closed link
  3. no objections. propsal accepted link
  4. http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-wg/2011May/0011.html Point 2-7 are agreed leaving \u processing link
  5. davidwood: closing ISSUE-42 link
  6. davidwood: closing ISSUE-43 link
  7. ISSUE-44 closed. link
  8. davidwood: ISSUE-45 closed link
  9. davidwood: enough DISagreement to leave this open link
  10. davidwood: ISSUE-47 closed link
  11. davidwood: ISSUE-48 closed link
  12. davidwood: ISSUE-50 postponed link
  13. davidwood: not enough agreement to postpone link
Topics

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14:22:06 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/05/04-rdf-wg-irc

RRSAgent IRC Bot: logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/05/04-rdf-wg-irc

14:22:08 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world

Trackbot IRC Bot: RRSAgent, make logs world

14:22:10 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 73394

Trackbot IRC Bot: Zakim, this will be 73394

14:22:10 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see SW_RDFWG()11:00AM scheduled to start in 38 minutes

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, trackbot; I see SW_RDFWG()11:00AM scheduled to start in 38 minutes

14:22:11 <trackbot> Meeting: RDF Working Group Teleconference
14:22:11 <trackbot> Date: 04 May 2011
14:46:39 <davidwood> Chair: David Wood
14:46:52 <davidwood> Scribe: Thomas Steiner

(No events recorded for 24 minutes)

(Scribe set to Thomas Steiner)

14:47:30 <sandro> mischat, yes, the MIT facility does that, but might not fit all the people who want to be local at MIT.

Sandro Hawke: mischat, yes, the MIT facility does that, but might not fit all the people who want to be local at MIT.

14:48:24 <mischat> sure

Mischa Tuffield: sure

14:49:49 <mischat> well at least it is an option, i wonder how many people would be at the east coast event if there was a european place to sit as well ...

Mischa Tuffield: well at least it is an option, i wonder how many people would be at the east coast event if there was a european place to sit as well ...

14:50:24 <sandro> Yeah, mischat, Guus was going to make a poll to find the answer to that question.

Sandro Hawke: Yeah, mischat, Guus was going to make a poll to find the answer to that question.

14:53:09 <gavinc> Zakim, code?

Gavin Carothers: Zakim, code?

14:53:09 <Zakim> the conference code is 73394 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.26.46.79.03 tel:+44.203.318.0479), gavinc

Zakim IRC Bot: the conference code is 73394 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.26.46.79.03 tel:+44.203.318.0479), gavinc

14:53:38 <Zakim> SW_RDFWG()11:00AM has now started

Zakim IRC Bot: SW_RDFWG()11:00AM has now started

14:53:45 <Zakim> + +1.707.861.aaaa

Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.707.861.aaaa

14:53:53 <gavinc> Zakim, aaaa is me

Gavin Carothers: Zakim, aaaa is me

14:53:53 <Zakim> +gavinc; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +gavinc; got it

14:54:19 <ivan> zakim, dial ivan-voip

Ivan Herman: zakim, dial ivan-voip

14:54:19 <Zakim> ok, ivan; the call is being made

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, ivan; the call is being made

14:54:20 <Zakim> +Ivan

Zakim IRC Bot: +Ivan

14:54:56 <Zakim> +Tony

Zakim IRC Bot: +Tony

14:55:58 <Scott> zakim, Tony is me

Scott Bauer: zakim, Tony is me

14:55:58 <Zakim> +Scott; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +Scott; got it

14:56:16 <Zakim> + +1.404.978.aabb

Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.404.978.aabb

14:56:30 <tomayac> zakim, aabb is me

zakim, aabb is me

14:56:30 <Zakim> +tomayac; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +tomayac; got it

14:57:38 <Zakim> +??P7

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P7

14:57:46 <AndyS> zakim, ??P7 is me

Andy Seaborne: zakim, ??P7 is me

14:57:46 <Zakim> +AndyS; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +AndyS; got it

14:57:51 <Zakim> + +33.4.92.38.aacc

Zakim IRC Bot: + +33.4.92.38.aacc

14:58:18 <OlivierCorby> zakim, aacc is me

Olivier Corby: zakim, aacc is me

14:58:18 <Zakim> +OlivierCorby; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +OlivierCorby; got it

14:59:00 <Zakim> + +1.540.898.aadd

Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.540.898.aadd

14:59:09 <davidwood> zakim, aadd is me

David Wood: zakim, aadd is me

14:59:09 <Zakim> +davidwood; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +davidwood; got it

15:00:07 <Zakim> +??P10

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P10

15:00:08 <ericP> Zakim, please dial ericP-office

Eric Prud'hommeaux: Zakim, please dial ericP-office

15:00:08 <Zakim> ok, ericP; the call is being made

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, ericP; the call is being made

15:00:08 <Zakim> +EricP

Zakim IRC Bot: +EricP

15:00:53 <mbrunati> zakim, ??P10 is me

Matteo Brunati: zakim, ??P10 is me

15:00:53 <Zakim> +mbrunati; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +mbrunati; got it

15:00:54 <Zakim> +LeeF

Zakim IRC Bot: +LeeF

15:01:04 <Zakim> +OpenLink_Software

Zakim IRC Bot: +OpenLink_Software

15:01:07 <davidwood> ScribeNick: tomayac
15:01:21 <MacTed> Zakim, OpenLink_Software is temporarily me

Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, OpenLink_Software is temporarily me

15:01:21 <Zakim> +MacTed; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +MacTed; got it

15:01:50 <Zakim> +danield

Zakim IRC Bot: +danield

15:01:56 <Zakim> +PatH

Zakim IRC Bot: +PatH

15:02:00 <Zakim> +??P17

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P17

15:02:02 <Zakim> +Souri

Zakim IRC Bot: +Souri

15:02:04 <Zakim> + +1.443.212.aaee

Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.443.212.aaee

15:02:09 <Zakim> +sandro

Zakim IRC Bot: +sandro

15:02:15 <FabGandon> Zakim, danield is me

Fabien Gandon: Zakim, danield is me

15:02:15 <Zakim> +FabGandon; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +FabGandon; got it

15:02:18 <MacTed> Zakim, mute me

Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, mute me

15:02:18 <Zakim> MacTed should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: MacTed should now be muted

15:02:23 <AlexHall> zakim, +1.443.212.aaee is me

Alex Hall: zakim, +1.443.212.aaee is me

15:02:23 <Zakim> +AlexHall; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +AlexHall; got it

15:02:33 <ivan> zakim, ??P17 is Pierre-Antoine

Ivan Herman: zakim, ??P17 is Pierre-Antoine

15:02:33 <Zakim> I already had ??P17 as pchampin, ivan

Zakim IRC Bot: I already had ??P17 as pchampin, ivan

15:03:56 <ericP> q+ to object to pchampin's proposal

Eric Prud'hommeaux: q+ to object to pchampin's proposal

15:03:59 <ericP> q-

Eric Prud'hommeaux: q-

15:04:08 <ericP> ack me

Eric Prud'hommeaux: ack me

15:04:11 <tomayac> TOPIC: minutes

1. minutes

15:04:12 <tomayac> PROPOSED: to accept the minutes

PROPOSED: to accept the minutes

15:04:27 <ericP> +1

Eric Prud'hommeaux: +1

15:04:30 <tomayac> +1

+1

15:04:36 <tomayac> Minutes accepted.

Minutes accepted.

15:04:37 <tomayac> TOPIC: ACTION item review

2. ACTION item review

15:04:52 <tomayac> ACTION-34 overdue

ACTION-34 overdue

15:05:01 <Zakim> +Russell

Zakim IRC Bot: +Russell

15:05:04 <davidwood> http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/actions/34

David Wood: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/actions/34

15:05:08 <tomayac> Done, whole heap of issues raised, see action

Done, whole heap of issues raised, see action

15:05:10 <AZ> zakim, mute me

Antoine Zimmermann: zakim, mute me

15:05:10 <Zakim> sorry, AZ, I do not know which phone connection belongs to you

Zakim IRC Bot: sorry, AZ, I do not know which phone connection belongs to you

15:05:11 <Zakim> +??P29

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P29

15:05:21 <ericP> Zakim, please mute ??P29

Eric Prud'hommeaux: Zakim, please mute ??P29

15:05:21 <Zakim> ??P29 should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: ??P29 should now be muted

15:05:22 <mischat> zakim, ??P29 is mischat

Mischa Tuffield: zakim, ??P29 is mischat

15:05:22 <Zakim> +mischat; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +mischat; got it

15:05:36 <tomayac> davidwood: going through issues today

David Wood: going through issues today

15:05:41 <tomayac> davidwood: some easy, some hard

David Wood: some easy, some hard

15:05:41 <mischat> zakim, ??P29 has mischat, SteveH

Mischa Tuffield: zakim, ??P29 has mischat, SteveH

15:05:41 <Zakim> sorry, mischat, I do not recognize a party named '??P29'

Zakim IRC Bot: sorry, mischat, I do not recognize a party named '??P29'

15:05:50 <tomayac> subtopic: ACTION-34

2.1. ACTION-34

15:05:51 <tomayac> PROPOSED: to close ACTION-34

PROPOSED: to close ACTION-34

15:05:55 <SteveH> Zakim, ??P29 is [Garlik]

Steve Harris: Zakim, ??P29 is [Garlik]

15:05:55 <Zakim> I already had ??P29 as mischat, SteveH

Zakim IRC Bot: I already had ??P29 as mischat, SteveH

15:06:01 <Zakim> +??P30

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P30

15:06:02 <tomayac> RESOLVED: closing ACTION-34

RESOLVED: closing ACTION-34

15:06:22 <AZ> zakim, maybe I'm  Russel

Antoine Zimmermann: zakim, maybe I'm Russel

15:06:22 <Zakim> I don't understand 'maybe I'm  Russel', AZ

Zakim IRC Bot: I don't understand 'maybe I'm Russel', AZ

15:06:32 <Zakim> + +1.408.642.aaff

Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.408.642.aaff

15:06:39 <tomayac> subtopic: ACTION-22

2.2. ACTION-22

15:06:40 <AZ> zakim, I may be Russel

Antoine Zimmermann: zakim, I may be Russel

15:06:40 <Zakim> +Russel?; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +Russel?; got it

15:06:47 <tomayac> but cygri sent regrets

but cygri sent regrets

15:06:57 <zwu2> zakim, +1.408.642.aaff is me

Zhe Wu: zakim, +1.408.642.aaff is me

15:06:59 <Zakim> +zwu2; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +zwu2; got it

15:07:00 <AZ> zakim, mute me

Antoine Zimmermann: zakim, mute me

15:07:00 <Zakim> sorry, AZ, I do not know which phone connection belongs to you

Zakim IRC Bot: sorry, AZ, I do not know which phone connection belongs to you

15:07:07 <tomayac> subtopic: ACTION-21

2.3. ACTION-21

15:07:15 <mischat> http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/actions/22

Mischa Tuffield: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/actions/22

15:07:19 <cmatheus> zakim. ??P32 is cmatheus

Christopher Matheus: zakim. ??P32 is cmatheus

15:07:21 <tomayac> will be clearified

will be clearified

15:07:45 <tomayac> sandro: RESOLVED: ACTION-39 closed

Sandro Hawke: RESOLVED: ACTION-39 closed

15:08:26 <tomayac> subtopic: unrecorded action: look at respec text vs. wiki text

2.4. unrecorded action: look at respec text vs. wiki text

15:09:00 <tomayac> gavin: action was unrecorded

Gavin Carothers: action was unrecorded

15:09:28 <tomayac> gavin, wlliam, pierre-antoine on the unrecorded action

gavin, wlliam, pierre-antoine on the unrecorded action

15:09:44 <cmatheus> zakim, ??P32 is cmatheus

Christopher Matheus: zakim, ??P32 is cmatheus

15:09:45 <Zakim> I already had ??P32 as Nick_van_den_Bleeken, cmatheus

Zakim IRC Bot: I already had ??P32 as Nick_van_den_Bleeken, cmatheus

15:09:49 <tomayac> subtopic: ACTION-41

2.5. ACTION-41

15:09:59 <sandro> action gavin: to compare/contrast respec vs mediawiki for spec authoring

Sandro Hawke: action gavin: to compare/contrast respec vs mediawiki for spec authoring

15:09:59 <trackbot> Created ACTION-43 - Compare/contrast respec vs mediawiki for spec authoring [on Gavin Carothers - due 2011-05-11].

Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-43 - Compare/contrast respec vs mediawiki for spec authoring [on Gavin Carothers - due 2011-05-11].

15:10:00 <tomayac> poll for face2face, on antoine

poll for face2face, on antoine

15:10:00 <AZ> zakim, unmute me

Antoine Zimmermann: zakim, unmute me

15:10:00 <Zakim> sorry, AZ, I do not know which phone connection belongs to you

Zakim IRC Bot: sorry, AZ, I do not know which phone connection belongs to you

15:10:08 <sandro> action william: to compare/contrast respec vs mediawiki for spec authoring

Sandro Hawke: action william: to compare/contrast respec vs mediawiki for spec authoring

15:10:08 <trackbot> Created ACTION-44 - Compare/contrast respec vs mediawiki for spec authoring [on William Waites - due 2011-05-11].

Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-44 - Compare/contrast respec vs mediawiki for spec authoring [on William Waites - due 2011-05-11].

15:10:11 <AZ> can you hear me?

Antoine Zimmermann: can you hear me?

15:10:11 <mischat> i found out about the video conferencing facilities at southampton uni fwiw

Mischa Tuffield: i found out about the video conferencing facilities at southampton uni fwiw

15:10:27 <sandro> action piere-antoine: to compare/contrast respec vs mediawiki for spec authoring

Sandro Hawke: action piere-antoine: to compare/contrast respec vs mediawiki for spec authoring

15:10:27 <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - piere-antoine

Trackbot IRC Bot: Sorry, couldn't find user - piere-antoine

15:10:42 <AZ> it seems I have a problem with my mic

Antoine Zimmermann: it seems I have a problem with my mic

15:10:46 <MacTed> Zakim, who's here?

Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, who's here?

15:10:46 <Zakim> On the phone I see gavinc, Russel?, Scott, tomayac, AndyS, OlivierCorby, davidwood, mbrunati, EricP, LeeF, MacTed (muted), FabGandon, PatH, pchampin (muted), Souri, AlexHall,

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see gavinc, Russel?, Scott, tomayac, AndyS, OlivierCorby, davidwood, mbrunati, EricP, LeeF, MacTed (muted), FabGandon, PatH, pchampin (muted), Souri, AlexHall,

15:10:49 <Zakim> ... sandro, Russell, mischat (muted), ??P30, zwu2

Zakim IRC Bot: ... sandro, Russell, mischat (muted), ??P30, zwu2

15:10:55 <sandro> action Pierre-Antoine: to compare/contrast respec vs mediawiki for spec authoring

Sandro Hawke: action Pierre-Antoine: to compare/contrast respec vs mediawiki for spec authoring

15:10:55 <trackbot> Created ACTION-45 - Compare/contrast respec vs mediawiki for spec authoring [on Pierre-Antoine Champin - due 2011-05-11].

Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-45 - Compare/contrast respec vs mediawiki for spec authoring [on Pierre-Antoine Champin - due 2011-05-11].

15:11:01 <cmatheus> zakim, ??P30 is cmatheus

Christopher Matheus: zakim, ??P30 is cmatheus

15:11:01 <Zakim> +cmatheus; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +cmatheus; got it

15:11:06 <mischat> http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/actions/42

Mischa Tuffield: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/actions/42

15:11:08 <AZ> I have a text to propose

Antoine Zimmermann: I have a text to propose

15:11:11 <tomayac> subtopic: ACTION-42

2.6. ACTION-42

15:11:11 <trackbot> ACTION-42 Propose text for resolution on archaic xsd:strings notes added

Trackbot IRC Bot: ACTION-42 Propose text for resolution on archaic xsd:strings notes added

15:11:21 <tomayac> text in email. link anyone?

text in email. link anyone?

15:11:22 <AZ> "PROPOSED: Recommend that data publishers use plain literals instead of xs:string typed literals and tell systems to silently convert xs:string literals to plain literals without language tag."

Antoine Zimmermann: "PROPOSED: Recommend that data publishers use plain literals instead of xs:string typed literals and tell systems to silently convert xs:string literals to plain literals without language tag."

15:11:26 <gavinc> "PROPOSED: Recommend that data publishers use plain literals instead of xs:string typed literals and tell systems to silently convert xs:string literals to plain literals without language tag."

Gavin Carothers: "PROPOSED: Recommend that data publishers use plain literals instead of xs:string typed literals and tell systems to silently convert xs:string literals to plain literals without language tag."

15:11:28 <AZ> it's the same as in my email

Antoine Zimmermann: it's the same as in my email

15:11:35 <tomayac> same as in email

same as in email

15:11:46 <davidwood> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-wg/2011May/0057.html

David Wood: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-wg/2011May/0057.html

15:12:10 <tomayac> RESOLVED: ACTION-42 herewith closed

RESOLVED: ACTION-42 herewith closed

15:12:23 <tomayac> Topic: SPARQL-Turtle Alignemnt

3. SPARQL-Turtle Alignemnt

15:12:28 <Zakim> +??P34

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P34

15:12:36 <Zakim> -mischat

Zakim IRC Bot: -mischat

15:12:38 <SteveH> Zakim, ??P34 is [Garlik]

Steve Harris: Zakim, ??P34 is [Garlik]

15:12:38 <Zakim> +[Garlik]; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +[Garlik]; got it

15:12:47 <SteveH> Zakim, [Garlik] has SteveH and mischat

Steve Harris: Zakim, [Garlik] has SteveH and mischat

15:12:47 <Zakim> +SteveH, mischat; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +SteveH, mischat; got it

15:12:56 <tomayac> issues, agreements, disagreements

issues, agreements, disagreements

15:13:06 <tomayac> andy discussion lead

andy discussion lead

15:13:33 <mischat> http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/Diff_SPARQL_Turtle

Mischa Tuffield: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/Diff_SPARQL_Turtle

15:13:35 <tomayac> andy: agreement: on all issues...

Andy Seaborne: agreement: on all issues...

15:13:38 <tomayac> ...except for one

...except for one

15:13:39 <ivan> -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-wg/2011May/0000.html Andy's email

Ivan Herman: -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-wg/2011May/0000.html Andy's email

15:14:01 <tomayac> eric: wishes to add a feature into turtle to allow prefixing of names

Eric Prud'hommeaux: wishes to add a feature into turtle to allow prefixing of names

15:14:13 <mischat> http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/Diff_SPARQL_Turtle#Possible_extension_to_Turtle

Mischa Tuffield: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/Diff_SPARQL_Turtle#Possible_extension_to_Turtle

15:14:50 <AndyS> -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-wg/2011May/0011.html

Andy Seaborne: -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-wg/2011May/0011.html

15:15:09 <tomayac> eric: getting past encoding limitations in pnames

Eric Prud'hommeaux: getting past encoding limitations in pnames

15:15:20 <mischat> go on ...

Mischa Tuffield: go on ...

15:15:22 <ericP>   _ :Eve foaf:name "Eve\u0022 .

Eric Prud'hommeaux: _ :Eve foaf:name "Eve\u0022 .

15:15:41 <ericP>   _ :Eve :says "Éric says \u0022Hi\u0022" .

Eric Prud'hommeaux: _ :Eve :says "Éric says \u0022Hi\u0022" .

15:16:43 <sandro> AndyS

Sandro Hawke: AndyS

15:17:08 <tomayac> eric: escaping not part of the grammar

Eric Prud'hommeaux: escaping not part of the grammar

15:17:23 <ivan> q+

Ivan Herman: q+

15:17:27 <gavinc> +q

Gavin Carothers: +q

15:17:33 <tomayac> eric: productions of local names to include escape productions

Eric Prud'hommeaux: productions of local names to include escape productions

15:17:50 <davidwood> ack ivan

David Wood: ack ivan

15:17:52 <tomayac> ivan: why this difference?

Ivan Herman: why this difference?

15:18:09 <AZ> zakim, Russel is me

Antoine Zimmermann: zakim, Russel is me

15:18:09 <Zakim> +AZ; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +AZ; got it

15:18:42 <tomayac> andy: at the moment as turtle is defined, commas disallowed in prefix names

Andy Seaborne: at the moment as turtle is defined, commas disallowed in prefix names

15:18:58 <tomayac> eric: disagrees

Eric Prud'hommeaux: disagrees

15:19:10 <tomayac> andy: that would be a change to SPARQL

Andy Seaborne: that would be a change to SPARQL

15:19:57 <tomayac> andy: current form does not allow \u escapings

Andy Seaborne: current form does not allow \u escapings

15:20:16 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]

Zakim IRC Bot: +[IPcaller]

15:20:21 <davidwood> ack gavinc

David Wood: ack gavinc

15:20:24 <webr3> zakim, i am IPcaller

Nathan Rixham: zakim, i am IPcaller

15:20:24 <Zakim> ok, webr3, I now associate you with [IPcaller]

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, webr3, I now associate you with [IPcaller]

15:20:38 <tomayac> gavin: thinks that ntriples has local names

Gavin Carothers: thinks that ntriples has local names

15:20:57 <tomayac> andy: label for a bnode has to be decided on a per-output basis

Andy Seaborne: label for a bnode has to be decided on a per-output basis

15:21:15 <tomayac> andy: asks eric: are you happy w/ the outher proosals

Andy Seaborne: asks eric: are you happy w/ the outher proosals

15:21:18 <tomayac> eric: ACK

Eric Prud'hommeaux: ACK

15:21:24 <davidwood> q?

David Wood: q?

15:21:32 <tomayac> andy: any other issues?

Andy Seaborne: any other issues?

15:21:37 <tomayac> -- silence --

-- silence --

15:21:42 <tomayac> no other issues

no other issues

15:21:59 <tomayac> andy: on what basis do we take the decision?

Andy Seaborne: on what basis do we take the decision?

15:22:05 <ivan> q+

Ivan Herman: q+

15:22:28 <tomayac> eric: on the prefix nodes issues: sorry it cant be done

Eric Prud'hommeaux: on the prefix nodes issues: sorry it cant be done

15:22:30 <LeeF> I think it's a "nice feature to have", but I'm (of course) wary of changing SPARQL right now because of the impact on implementors

Lee Feigenbaum: I think it's a "nice feature to have", but I'm (of course) wary of changing SPARQL right now because of the impact on implementors

15:23:03 <SteveH> +1 to LeeF

Steve Harris: +1 to LeeF

15:23:23 <PatH> There is a dragon on the call breathing fire.

Patrick Hayes: There is a dragon on the call breathing fire.

15:23:39 <tomayac> eric: no new prefix for each row in the db

Eric Prud'hommeaux: no new prefix for each row in the db

15:23:42 <mischat> zakim, who is making noise ?

Mischa Tuffield: zakim, who is making noise ?

15:23:44 <davidwood> zakim, who is speaking?

David Wood: zakim, who is speaking?

15:23:45 <tomayac> eric: just use the same prefix

Eric Prud'hommeaux: just use the same prefix

15:23:52 <Zakim> mischat, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: AndyS (83%), EricP (4%)

Zakim IRC Bot: mischat, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: AndyS (83%), EricP (4%)

15:24:03 <Zakim> davidwood, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: AndyS (24%), davidwood (5%), AZ (8%), EricP (22%)

Zakim IRC Bot: davidwood, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: AndyS (24%), davidwood (5%), AZ (8%), EricP (22%)

15:24:12 <PatH> sounds like LeeF is right, this is neat feature but not really essential. I suggest not worth changing sparql for.

Patrick Hayes: sounds like LeeF is right, this is neat feature but not really essential. I suggest not worth changing sparql for.

15:24:14 <tomayac> andy: need a decision mechanism

Andy Seaborne: need a decision mechanism

15:24:22 <ivan> ack ivan

Ivan Herman: ack ivan

15:24:30 <AZ> zakim, mute me

Antoine Zimmermann: zakim, mute me

15:24:30 <Zakim> AZ should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: AZ should now be muted

15:24:39 <tomayac> ivan: question is: what is the most, what is the least destructive answer?

Ivan Herman: question is: what is the most, what is the least destructive answer?

15:25:00 <tomayac> ivan seems gone

ivan seems gone

15:25:08 <MacTed> Zakim, who's here?

Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, who's here?

15:25:08 <Zakim> On the phone I see gavinc, AZ (muted), Scott, tomayac, AndyS, OlivierCorby, davidwood, mbrunati, EricP, LeeF, MacTed (muted), FabGandon, PatH, pchampin (muted), Souri, AlexHall,

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see gavinc, AZ (muted), Scott, tomayac, AndyS, OlivierCorby, davidwood, mbrunati, EricP, LeeF, MacTed (muted), FabGandon, PatH, pchampin (muted), Souri, AlexHall,

15:25:11 <Zakim> ... sandro, Russell, cmatheus, zwu2, [Garlik], [IPcaller]

Zakim IRC Bot: ... sandro, Russell, cmatheus, zwu2, [Garlik], [IPcaller]

15:25:12 <Zakim> [Garlik] has SteveH, mischat

Zakim IRC Bot: [Garlik] has SteveH, mischat

15:25:19 <MacTed> Zakim, unmute az

Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, unmute az

15:25:19 <Zakim> AZ should no longer be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: AZ should no longer be muted

15:25:27 <gavinc> -q

Gavin Carothers: -q

15:25:39 <tomayac> lee: understands the use case

Lee Feigenbaum: understands the use case

15:25:45 <Zakim> -AZ

Zakim IRC Bot: -AZ

15:25:47 <tomayac> lee: probably a good thing to include

Lee Feigenbaum: probably not a good thing to include during SPARQL last call

15:25:50 <MacTed> (AZ muted, and ivan went quiet ... ivan isn't in the names list ... I'm guessing AZ took ivan's line)

Ted Thibodeau: (AZ muted, and ivan went quiet ... ivan isn't in the names list ... I'm guessing AZ took ivan's line)

15:25:55 <ivan> zakim, dial ivan-voip

Ivan Herman: zakim, dial ivan-voip

15:25:56 <Zakim> ok, ivan; the call is being made

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, ivan; the call is being made

15:25:57 <Zakim> +Ivan

Zakim IRC Bot: +Ivan

15:26:10 <tomayac> ivan is back

ivan is back

15:26:19 <davidwood> s/probably a good thing to include/probably not a good thing to include during SPARQL last call/
15:26:48 <LeeF> Also mildly disruptive with existing turtle and sparql implementations

Lee Feigenbaum: Also mildly disruptive with existing turtle and sparql implementations

15:26:57 <tomayac> ivan: not only last call, but also deployed sparql versions

Ivan Herman: not only last call, but also deployed sparql versions

15:26:59 <LeeF> Both things -- disruptive to SPARQL schedule, and somewhat disruptive to implementations

Lee Feigenbaum: Both things -- disruptive to SPARQL schedule, and somewhat disruptive to implementations

15:27:14 <PatH> Maybe should ask, if we DONT do this, how bad would that be?

Patrick Hayes: Maybe should ask, if we DONT do this, how bad would that be?

15:27:29 <tomayac> eric: not convinced that it's true

Eric Prud'hommeaux: not convinced that it's true

15:27:57 <MacTed> 1.1 (or later) have been known to break (or at least, go beyond) 1.0 ...

Ted Thibodeau: 1.1 (or later) have been known to break (or at least, go beyond) 1.0 ...

15:28:06 <ivan> q+

Ivan Herman: q+

15:28:12 <PatH> Everyone sees to agree this would be kind of neat, but... So what is the but... for NOT doing it.

Patrick Hayes: Everyone sees to agree this would be kind of neat, but... So what is the but... for NOT doing it.

15:28:15 <MacTed> BASIC 2.0 commands broke in BASIC 1.0 interpreters...  :-)

Ted Thibodeau: BASIC 2.0 commands broke in BASIC 1.0 interpreters... :-)

15:28:27 <davidwood> q?

David Wood: q?

15:28:52 <tomayac> andy: argument for not doing it: its not currently in turtle and in sparql. how much need is out there?

Andy Seaborne: argument for not doing it: its not currently in turtle and in sparql. how much need is out there?

15:29:03 <PatH> OK, thanks.

Patrick Hayes: OK, thanks.

15:29:04 <tomayac> andy: whats the cost. would it cause a new last call?

Andy Seaborne: whats the cost. would it cause a new last call?

15:29:12 <tomayac> pat: we have a choice:

Patrick Hayes: we have a choice:

15:29:28 <tomayac> pat: if we were to include it in turtle, we'd break the sparql turtle alignment

David Wood: if we were to include it in turtle, we'd break the sparql turtle alignment

15:29:45 <AndyS> s/pat/davidwood/
15:29:46 <mischat> s/pat/davidwood/
15:29:48 <tomayac> pat: do we want to break sparql-turtle alignment?

David Wood: do we want to break sparql-turtle alignment?

15:29:56 <mischat> s/pat/davidwood/
15:30:05 <PatH> OK, seems to me that sparql/turtle alignment is worth quite a lot of loss of neat-o features.

Patrick Hayes: OK, seems to me that sparql/turtle alignment is worth quite a lot of loss of neat-o features.

15:30:06 <tomayac> eric: no

Eric Prud'hommeaux: no

15:30:10 <davidwood> ack ivan

David Wood: ack ivan

15:30:26 <tomayac> ivan: having a problem w/ sparql turtle alignment would be a mistake

Ivan Herman: having a problem w/ sparql turtle alignment would be a mistake

15:30:38 <tomayac> ivan: sandro very diplomatic proposal:

Ivan Herman: sandro very diplomatic proposal:

15:30:59 <tomayac> ivan: if sparql goes to last call => sparql can make it a pending feature

Ivan Herman: if sparql goes to last call => sparql can make it a pending feature

15:31:04 <AndyS> if programmatic constructed, then the system writer gets it right anyway

Andy Seaborne: if programmatic constructed, then the system writer gets it right anyway

15:31:15 <tomayac> ivan: if feedback on last call very negative => can be taken out

Ivan Herman: if feedback on last call very negative => can be taken out

15:31:33 <PatH> Ivan, you should be in the State Department.

Patrick Hayes: Ivan, you should be in the State Department.

15:31:39 <PatH> +1 Ivan

Patrick Hayes: +1 Ivan

15:31:41 <tomayac> ivan: make it clear that its an issue in pimplementations, and see what the feedback is

Ivan Herman: make it clear that its an issue in pimplementations, and see what the feedback is

15:32:18 <tomayac> davidwood: happy with it

David Wood: happy with it

15:32:27 <tomayac> lee: implementers are here. opinions?

Lee Feigenbaum: implementers are here. opinions?

15:33:05 <tomayac> lee: happy, with the sparql hat on

Lee Feigenbaum: happy, with the sparql hat on

15:33:25 <PatH> sparqly pimplementors unite!

Patrick Hayes: sparqly pimplementors unite!

15:33:50 <ericP> <PN_CHARS_BASE> |= UCHAR

Eric Prud'hommeaux: <PN_CHARS_BASE> |= UCHAR

15:33:50 <LeeF> LeeF: I'm ok with it, because I'm ok with not being 100% conformant, but I wouldn't run off to make this change in my code

Lee Feigenbaum: I'm ok with it, because I'm ok with not being 100% conformant, but I wouldn't run off to make this change in my code [ Scribe Assist by Lee Feigenbaum ]

15:34:07 <tomayac> ivan: to be fair, other changes for turtle would require turtle parsers to go thru an update circle

Ivan Herman: to be fair, other changes for turtle would require turtle parsers to go thru an update circle

15:34:14 <SteveH> I think this is less invasive than the \u escape ordering thing

Steve Harris: I think this is less invasive than the \u escape ordering thing

15:34:21 <SteveH> but I'm not a parser guy

Steve Harris: but I'm not a parser guy

15:34:57 <tomayac> andy: required update is for strings and iris

Andy Seaborne: required update is for strings and iris

15:35:05 <tomayac> andy: believed not to affect many people

Andy Seaborne: believed not to affect many people

15:35:14 <ericP>   _ :Eve foaf:name "Eve\u0022 .

Eric Prud'hommeaux: _ :Eve foaf:name "Eve\u0022 .

15:35:25 <tomayac> eric: in the sense of doesnt happen often enough?

Eric Prud'hommeaux: in the sense of doesnt happen often enough?

15:35:30 <tomayac> andy: yep, in this sense

Andy Seaborne: yep, in this sense

15:35:50 <tomayac> david: you think we make any progress on this, andy? or should we move on?

David Wood: you think we make any progress on this, andy? or should we move on?

15:35:56 <tomayac> andy: think we should move on

Andy Seaborne: think we should move on

15:36:03 <gavinc> as turtle implementor, I'm with Eric. Easy change to make.

Gavin Carothers: as turtle implementor, I'm with Eric. Easy change to make.

15:36:07 <tomayac> ivan: can we agree on other issues to be solved?

Ivan Herman: can we agree on other issues to be solved?

15:36:27 <tomayac> andy: yes, i can draft a resolution

Andy Seaborne: yes, i can draft a resolution

15:37:00 <tomayac> eric: one of the points in eric's mail was: escaping should not be in the grammar, eric says: it should be in  the grammar

Eric Prud'hommeaux: one of the points in eric's mail was: escaping should not be in the grammar, eric says: it should be in the grammar

15:37:14 <tomayac> andy: i took whatever was in the current doc

Andy Seaborne: i took whatever was in the current doc

15:37:21 <ivan> s/poiints/points/

Ivan Herman: s/poiints/points/ (warning: replacement failed)

15:37:34 <AndyS> PROPOSED: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-wg/2011May/0011.html Point 2-7 are agreed leaving  \u processing (point 8)

PROPOSED: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-wg/2011May/0011.html Point 2-7 are agreed leaving \u processing (point 8)

15:37:48 <ivan> +1

Ivan Herman: +1

15:37:55 <zwu2> +1

Zhe Wu: +1

15:38:00 <pchampin> +1

Pierre-Antoine Champin: +1

15:38:04 <davidwood> +1

David Wood: +1

15:38:05 <PatH> +1

Patrick Hayes: +1

15:38:07 <sandro> +1

Sandro Hawke: +1

15:38:08 <gavinc> +1

Gavin Carothers: +1

15:38:11 <tomayac> objections to andy's proposal?

objections to andy's proposal?

15:38:13 <webr3> +1

Nathan Rixham: +1

15:38:15 <cmatheus> +1

Christopher Matheus: +1

15:38:22 <tomayac> RESOLVED: no objections. propsal accepted

RESOLVED: no objections. propsal accepted

15:38:26 <mbrunati> +1

Matteo Brunati: +1

15:38:30 <SteveH> abstain

Steve Harris: abstain

15:38:55 <ericP> +1

Eric Prud'hommeaux: +1

15:38:58 <ivan> RESOLVED: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-wg/2011May/0011.html Point 2-7 are agreed leaving  \u processing

RESOLVED: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-wg/2011May/0011.html Point 2-7 are agreed leaving \u processing

15:39:21 <tomayac> thanks for the productive discussion

thanks for the productive discussion

15:39:24 <tomayac> next topic:

next topic:

15:39:35 <tomayac> Topic: Revisiting the post-poned ISSUES

4. Revisiting the post-poned ISSUES

15:39:52 <tomayac> davidwood: let's try to resolve whatever is possible via phone

David Wood: let's try to resolve whatever is possible via phone

15:39:57 <tomayac> davidwood: let's skip others

David Wood: let's skip others

15:40:02 <tomayac> davidwood: clean up easy ones

David Wood: clean up easy ones

15:40:18 <davidwood> subtopic: ISSUE-42: Revisit "Something should be done about aboutEachPrefix construct"

4.1. ISSUE-42: Revisit "Something should be done about aboutEachPrefix construct"

15:40:18 <trackbot> ISSUE-42 Revisit "Something should be done about aboutEachPrefix construct" notes added

Trackbot IRC Bot: ISSUE-42 Revisit "Something should be done about aboutEachPrefix construct" notes added

15:40:28 <davidwood> http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/issues/42

David Wood: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/issues/42

15:40:44 <tomayac> looking at issue 42

looking at ISSUE-42

15:40:45 <ivan> ISSUE-42?

Ivan Herman: ISSUE-42?

15:40:45 <trackbot> ISSUE-42 -- Revisit "Something should be done about aboutEachPrefix construct" -- raised

Trackbot IRC Bot: ISSUE-42 -- Revisit "Something should be done about aboutEachPrefix construct" -- raised

15:40:45 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/issues/42

Trackbot IRC Bot: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/issues/42

15:41:26 <tomayac> davidwood: please check the issue and edit it if need be

David Wood: please check the issue and edit it if need be

15:41:28 <ivan> +1

Ivan Herman: +1

15:41:30 <webr3> +1

Nathan Rixham: +1

15:41:36 <sandro> +1

Sandro Hawke: +1

15:41:37 <AndyS> +1

Andy Seaborne: +1

15:41:37 <pchampin> +1

Pierre-Antoine Champin: +1

15:41:41 <SteveH> +1

Steve Harris: +1

15:41:41 <zwu2> +1

Zhe Wu: +1

15:41:45 <tomayac> davidwood: objections to closing ISSUE-42?

David Wood: objections to closing ISSUE-42?

15:41:47 <gavinc> +0 (no idea what the issue was)

Gavin Carothers: +0 (no idea what the issue was)

15:42:12 <tomayac> davidwood: it's in the charter to clean left-overs

David Wood: it's in the charter to clean left-overs

15:42:15 <mbrunati> +1

Matteo Brunati: +1

15:42:17 <AZ> +1

Antoine Zimmermann: +1

15:42:26 <tomayac> RESOLVED: davidwood: closing ISSUE-42

RESOLVED: davidwood: closing ISSUE-42

15:42:37 <PatH> q

Patrick Hayes: q

15:42:37 <ivan> subtopic: ISSUE-43?

4.2. ISSUE-43?

15:42:37 <trackbot> ISSUE-43 -- Revisit "Suggestion that Qnames should be allowed as values for attributes such as rdf:about" -- raised

Trackbot IRC Bot: ISSUE-43 -- Revisit "Suggestion that Qnames should be allowed as values for attributes such as rdf:about" -- raised

15:42:37 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/issues/43

Trackbot IRC Bot: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/issues/43

15:42:45 <tomayac> next ISSUE-43

next ISSUE-43

15:43:01 <webr3> +1 to resolve/close

Nathan Rixham: +1 to resolve/close

15:43:04 <LeeF> +1

Lee Feigenbaum: +1

15:43:04 <ivan> +1

Ivan Herman: +1

15:43:06 <AZ> +1

Antoine Zimmermann: +1

15:43:08 <mbrunati> +1

Matteo Brunati: +1

15:43:10 <SteveH> +1

Steve Harris: +1

15:43:12 <AndyS> +1

Andy Seaborne: +1

15:43:12 <gavinc> +1 to close

Gavin Carothers: +1 to close

15:43:15 <zwu2> +0

Zhe Wu: +0

15:43:20 <tomayac> theere was agreement on email to close this ISSUE-43

theere was agreement on email to close this ISSUE-43

15:43:21 <PatH> +0

Patrick Hayes: +0

15:43:23 <ericP> +0

Eric Prud'hommeaux: +0

15:43:23 <pchampin> +0

Pierre-Antoine Champin: +0

15:43:28 <Souri> -0

Souripriya Das: -0

15:43:29 <tomayac> RESOLVED: davidwood: closing ISSUE-43

RESOLVED: davidwood: closing ISSUE-43

15:43:31 <ivan> subtopic: ISSUE-44?

4.3. ISSUE-44?

15:43:31 <trackbot> ISSUE-44 -- Revisit "The RDF XML syntax cannot represent all possible Property URI's" -- raised

Trackbot IRC Bot: ISSUE-44 -- Revisit "The RDF XML syntax cannot represent all possible Property URI's" -- raised

15:43:31 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/issues/44

Trackbot IRC Bot: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/issues/44

15:43:49 <tomayac> next ISSUE-44

next ISSUE-44

15:43:52 <webr3> +1 to close, can't see any reason to continue something that won't change

Nathan Rixham: +1 to close, can't see any reason to continue something that won't change

15:43:59 <ivan> +1

Ivan Herman: +1

15:44:02 <LeeF> +1

Lee Feigenbaum: +1

15:44:03 <SteveH> +1 to close

Steve Harris: +1 to close

15:44:05 <AZ> +1 to close

Antoine Zimmermann: +1 to close

15:44:09 <mbrunati> +1

Matteo Brunati: +1

15:44:11 <AlexHall> +1

Alex Hall: +1

15:44:14 <zwu2> +0

Zhe Wu: +0

15:44:19 <tomayac> davidwood: seems agreement to close it, as rdf/xml wont never ever change

David Wood: seems agreement to close it, as rdf/xml wont never ever change

15:44:23 <AndyS> +1 to close with no change

Andy Seaborne: +1 to close with no change

15:44:31 <PatH> +1

Patrick Hayes: +1

15:44:32 <ericP> +0

Eric Prud'hommeaux: +0

15:44:41 <Souri> +1

Souripriya Das: +1

15:44:41 <gavinc> +1 close

Gavin Carothers: +1 close

15:44:44 <cmatheus> +1

Christopher Matheus: +1

15:44:50 <tomayac> davidwood: correction: minor changes to rdf/xml might happen. sorry

David Wood: correction: minor changes to rdf/xml might happen. sorry

15:44:51 <tomayac> RESOLVED: ISSUE-44 closed.

RESOLVED: ISSUE-44 closed.

15:45:04 <ivan> subtopic: ISSUE-45?

4.4. ISSUE-45?

15:45:04 <trackbot> ISSUE-45 -- Revisit "The syntax needs a more convenient way to express the reification of a statement" -- raised

Trackbot IRC Bot: ISSUE-45 -- Revisit "The syntax needs a more convenient way to express the reification of a statement" -- raised

15:45:04 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/issues/45

Trackbot IRC Bot: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/issues/45

15:45:05 <webr3> +1 close as a duplicate (on issue-25)

Nathan Rixham: +1 close as a duplicate (on ISSUE-25)

15:45:10 <tomayac> davidwood: ISSUE-44 closed

David Wood: ISSUE-44 closed

15:45:21 <tomayac> davidwood: next ISSUE-45

David Wood: next ISSUE-45

15:45:41 <PatH> +1

Patrick Hayes: +1

15:45:41 <SteveH> +1, close a dup

Steve Harris: +1, close a dup

15:45:43 <gavinc> +1 close as duplicate

Gavin Carothers: +1 close as duplicate

15:45:45 <cmatheus> +1

Christopher Matheus: +1

15:45:45 <mbrunati> +1

Matteo Brunati: +1

15:45:45 <zwu2> +1

Zhe Wu: +1

15:45:46 <tomayac> davidwood: ISSUE-45 is duplicate of ISSUE-25 => close it

David Wood: ISSUE-45 is duplicate of ISSUE-25 => close it

15:45:48 <OlivierCorby> +1

Olivier Corby: +1

15:45:50 <AZ> +1 close as duplicate

Antoine Zimmermann: +1 close as duplicate

15:45:53 <Souri> +1

Souripriya Das: +1

15:45:56 <tomayac> RESOLVED: davidwood: ISSUE-45 closed

RESOLVED: davidwood: ISSUE-45 closed

15:46:04 <ivan> subtopic: ISSUE-46?

4.5. ISSUE-46?

15:46:04 <trackbot> ISSUE-46 -- Revisit "Should RDF have a mechanism for declaring two uri's to be equivalent?" -- raised

Trackbot IRC Bot: ISSUE-46 -- Revisit "Should RDF have a mechanism for declaring two uri's to be equivalent?" -- raised

15:46:04 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/issues/46

Trackbot IRC Bot: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/issues/46

15:46:07 <webr3> -1 leave open for discussion later

Nathan Rixham: -1 leave open for discussion later

15:46:08 <tomayac> davidwood: ISSUE-46

David Wood: ISSUE-46

15:46:14 <PatH> Sugfgest we keep this one open for now.

Patrick Hayes: Sugfgest we keep this one open for now.

15:46:19 <gavinc> -0 leave open

Gavin Carothers: -0 leave open

15:46:27 <tomayac> davidwood: leave it open for next workshop

David Wood: leave it open for next workshop

15:46:27 <SteveH> close, we have owl:sameAs

Steve Harris: close, we have owl:sameAs

15:46:29 <AZ> +0

Antoine Zimmermann: +0

15:46:36 <zwu2> close, we have owl:sameAs

Zhe Wu: close, we have owl:sameAs

15:46:43 <cmatheus> +1 leave open

Christopher Matheus: +1 leave open

15:46:46 <ericP> abstain

Eric Prud'hommeaux: abstain

15:46:47 <tomayac> RESOLVED: davidwood: enough DISagreement to leave this open

RESOLVED: davidwood: enough DISagreement to leave this open

15:46:48 <ivan> -0

Ivan Herman: -0

15:46:58 <mbrunati> 0 leave open

Matteo Brunati: 0 leave open

15:46:59 <ivan> subtopic: ISSUE-47?

4.6. ISSUE-47?

15:46:59 <trackbot> ISSUE-47 -- Revisit "RDF embedded in XHTML and other XML documents is hard to validate" -- raised

Trackbot IRC Bot: ISSUE-47 -- Revisit "RDF embedded in XHTML and other XML documents is hard to validate" -- raised

15:46:59 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/issues/47

Trackbot IRC Bot: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/issues/47

15:47:04 <tomayac> davidwood: ISSUE-47

David Wood: ISSUE-47

15:47:08 <webr3> +1/0 don't care

Nathan Rixham: +1/0 don't care

15:47:13 <SteveH> don't care

Steve Harris: don't care

15:47:25 <ivan> +1 to close

Ivan Herman: +1 to close

15:47:34 <FabGandon> out of scope

Fabien Gandon: out of scope

15:47:35 <zwu2> +1 close

Zhe Wu: +1 close

15:47:36 <AZ> +1 to close

Antoine Zimmermann: +1 to close

15:47:38 <sandro> close, but with a better comment.

Sandro Hawke: close, but with a better comment.

15:47:38 <tomayac> davidwood: no objections to close it

David Wood: no objections to close it

15:47:41 <Souri> +1

Souripriya Das: +1

15:47:41 <mbrunati> +1 close

Matteo Brunati: +1 close

15:47:43 <pchampin> out of scope

Pierre-Antoine Champin: out of scope

15:47:47 <PatH> does i tmean the RDF is hard to validate or the XML is?

Patrick Hayes: does i tmean the RDF is hard to validate or the XML is?

15:47:48 <tomayac> RESOLVED: davidwood: ISSUE-47 closed

RESOLVED: davidwood: ISSUE-47 closed

15:47:54 <cmatheus> +1 close

Christopher Matheus: +1 close

15:48:00 <PatH> +1 close out of scope

Patrick Hayes: +1 close out of scope

15:48:01 <tomayac> davidwood: validation is out of scope of this wg

David Wood: validation is out of scope of this wg

15:48:04 <gavinc> +1 close with validation out of scope

Gavin Carothers: +1 close with validation out of scope

15:48:09 <sandro> +1 "Close -- validation is out of scope for this WG"

Sandro Hawke: +1 "Close -- validation is out of scope for this WG"

15:48:18 <mischat> +1 to close

Mischa Tuffield: +1 to close

15:48:23 <PatH> listen to the worms...

Patrick Hayes: listen to the worms...

15:48:27 <ivan> subtopic: ISSUE-48?

4.7. ISSUE-48?

15:48:27 <trackbot> ISSUE-48 -- Revisit "The design of the RDF Model collection classes exhibit various awkward features. Might these be augmented with a 'better' design?" -- raised

Trackbot IRC Bot: ISSUE-48 -- Revisit "The design of the RDF Model collection classes exhibit various awkward features. Might these be augmented with a 'better' design?" -- raised

15:48:27 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/issues/48

Trackbot IRC Bot: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/issues/48

15:48:34 <tomayac> davidwood: ISSUE-48

David Wood: ISSUE-48

15:48:48 <webr3> +0

Nathan Rixham: +0

15:48:57 <tomayac> davidwood: danbri marked this one as a duplicate

David Wood: danbri marked this one as a duplicate

15:49:34 <tomayac> davidwood: proposal to close it as duplicate to ISSUE-24

David Wood: proposal to close it as duplicate to ISSUE-24

15:49:39 <gavinc> +0 close as duplicate of Issue-24?

Gavin Carothers: +0 close as duplicate of ISSUE-24?

15:49:51 <SteveH> not a dup of 24

Steve Harris: not a dup of 24

15:49:53 <PatH> +q

Patrick Hayes: +q

15:50:05 <tomayac> andy: not a duplicate of ISSUE-24

Andy Seaborne: not a duplicate of ISSUE-24

15:50:12 <tomayac> andy: its about containers

Andy Seaborne: its about containers

15:50:22 <tomayac> ISSUE-48 is about collections

ISSUE-48 is about collections

15:51:28 <tomayac> patH: couldn't follow, sorry

Patrick Hayes: couldn't follow, sorry

15:51:37 <SteveH> "The use of special property names (_1, _2, etc.) can really be quite awkward for expressing ordering. It means that it can be very difficult to add new members to a collection after the event"

Steve Harris: "The use of special property names (_1, _2, etc.) can really be quite awkward for expressing ordering. It means that it can be very difficult to add new members to a collection after the event"

15:51:42 <davidwood> ack PatH

David Wood: ack PatH

15:51:49 <tomayac> path: seems to be a suggestion to put linked lists into rdf. done by the prev. wg

Patrick Hayes: seems to be a suggestion to put linked lists into rdf. done by the prev. wg

15:51:56 <tomayac> path: seems an archaic left-over

Patrick Hayes: seems an archaic left-over

15:51:58 <mischat> SteveH: is speaking now

Steve Harris: is speaking now [ Scribe Assist by Mischa Tuffield ]

15:52:07 <tomayac> steveh: not true

Steve Harris: not true

15:53:19 <tomayac> davidwood: want to continue this discussion on the list?

David Wood: want to continue this discussion on the list?

15:53:47 <tomayac> steveharris: lists of things done the wrong way twice

Steve Harris: lists of things done the wrong way twice

15:54:06 <gavinc> Anyone have ideas on making better lists?

Gavin Carothers: Anyone have ideas on making better lists?

15:54:10 <tomayac> path: close it and throw it away

Patrick Hayes: close it and throw it away

15:54:12 <webr3> +1 to path

Nathan Rixham: +1 to path

15:54:16 <ericP> +1 to PatH's dicideratum

Eric Prud'hommeaux: +1 to PatH's dicideratum

15:54:24 <ivan> +1

Ivan Herman: +1

15:54:28 <zwu2> +1

Zhe Wu: +1

15:54:29 <FabGandon> +1

Fabien Gandon: +1

15:54:30 <webr3> +1

Nathan Rixham: +1

15:54:30 <tomayac> PROPOSED: davidwood: proposal to close ISSUE-48 as overcome by events. objections?

PROPOSED: davidwood: proposal to close ISSUE-48 as overcome by events. objections?

15:54:31 <pchampin> +1

Pierre-Antoine Champin: +1

15:54:31 <mbrunati> +1

Matteo Brunati: +1

15:54:32 <Souri> +1

Souripriya Das: +1

15:54:33 <gavinc> +1

Gavin Carothers: +1

15:54:33 <AZ> +1

Antoine Zimmermann: +1

15:54:33 <mischat> +!

Mischa Tuffield: +!

15:54:37 <mischat> +1

Mischa Tuffield: +1

15:54:42 <cmatheus> +1

Christopher Matheus: +1

15:55:05 <AndyS> Add them as a first class data object, not encode in triples. Its the encoding (and possible mis-encoding) that cause some of the pain.

Andy Seaborne: Add them as a first class data object, not encode in triples. Its the encoding (and possible mis-encoding) that cause some of the pain.

15:55:09 <ivan> ISSUE-49?

Ivan Herman: ISSUE-49?

15:55:09 <trackbot> ISSUE-49 -- Revisit "Should the subjects of RDF statements be allowed to be literals" -- raised

Trackbot IRC Bot: ISSUE-49 -- Revisit "Should the subjects of RDF statements be allowed to be literals" -- raised

15:55:09 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/issues/49

Trackbot IRC Bot: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/issues/49

15:55:10 <tomayac> RESOLVED: davidwood: ISSUE-48 closed

RESOLVED: davidwood: ISSUE-48 closed

15:55:13 <SteveH> +1 to AndyS

Steve Harris: +1 to AndyS

15:55:34 <zwu2> would be nice to have it :)

Zhe Wu: would be nice to have it :)

15:55:35 <tomayac> davidwood: ISSUE-49: literals as subjects can't be closed

David Wood: ISSUE-49: literals as subjects can't be closed

15:55:35 <trackbot> ISSUE-49 Revisit "Should the subjects of RDF statements be allowed to be literals" notes added

Trackbot IRC Bot: ISSUE-49 Revisit "Should the subjects of RDF statements be allowed to be literals" notes added

15:55:35 <webr3>  q : could I create an RDF serialization with literal subjects and defer to the rdf semantics?

Nathan Rixham: q : could I create an RDF serialization with literal subjects and defer to the rdf semantics?

15:55:36 <PatH> Andy: I agree, buit that goes way beyond issue-48.

Andy Seaborne: I agree, buit that goes way beyond ISSUE-48. [ Scribe Assist by Patrick Hayes ]

15:55:55 <tomayac> davidwood: can't be considered closed

David Wood: can't be considered closed

15:55:56 <AndyS> q+

Andy Seaborne: q+

15:55:59 <PatH> Yes, the semantics is fine with literal subjects.

Patrick Hayes: Yes, the semantics is fine with literal subjects.

15:56:05 <PatH> with literal

Patrick Hayes: with literal

15:56:09 <tomayac> andy: happy to postpone

Andy Seaborne: happy to postpone

15:56:10 <davidwood> ack AndyS

David Wood: ack AndyS

15:56:15 <webr3> so it's in "rdf" but not in the official serializations

Nathan Rixham: so it's in "rdf" but not in the official serializations

15:56:19 <tomayac> andy: rdf api allows literals as subjects

Andy Seaborne: rdf api allows literals as subjects

15:56:54 <tomayac> ivan: status of rdf api? first public working draft hopefully next week

Ivan Herman: status of rdf api? first public working draft hopefully next week

15:57:06 <PatH> There was a chorus of disapproval for literal subjects at the initial workshop, mostly from developers who didnt want to alter lagacy code.

Patrick Hayes: There was a chorus of disapproval for literal subjects at the initial workshop, mostly from developers who didnt want to alter lagacy code.

15:57:08 <tomayac> davidwood: for the moment we cant do anything about it

David Wood: for the moment we cant do anything about it

15:57:09 <webr3> it's now "rdf-interfaces" which contains it - rdf-api is a diff spec

Nathan Rixham: it's now "rdf-interfaces" which contains it - rdf-api is a diff spec

15:57:15 <PatH> legacy

Patrick Hayes: legacy

15:57:18 <webr3> +1 to continue

Nathan Rixham: +1 to continue

15:57:38 <AndyS> +1 to PatH - legacy is now a real issue (and that's good)

Andy Seaborne: +1 to PatH - legacy is now a real issue (and that's good)

15:57:38 <tomayac> tomayac: rdf api is now rdf interfaces

Thomas Steiner: rdf api is now rdf interfaces

15:57:41 <mischat> literal as subjects doesn't seem very webbie to me, but anyways ...

Mischa Tuffield: literal as subjects doesn't seem very webbie to me, but anyways ...

15:57:52 <ivan> subtopic: ISSUE-50?

4.8. ISSUE-50?

15:57:53 <trackbot> ISSUE-50 -- Revisit "Request to allow b-nodes as property labels" -- raised

Trackbot IRC Bot: ISSUE-50 -- Revisit "Request to allow b-nodes as property labels" -- raised

15:57:53 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/issues/50

Trackbot IRC Bot: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/issues/50

15:58:00 <tomayac> davidwood: ISSUE-50

David Wood: ISSUE-50

15:58:09 <tomayac> davidwood: out of charter

David Wood: out of charter

15:58:20 <PatH> Sorry to go back, but I just noticed something about issue-42 that might be slightly important. The POWDER mechanism uses rdf:bag, which me therefor have to be careful not to deprecate.

Patrick Hayes: Sorry to go back, but I just noticed something about ISSUE-42 that might be slightly important. The POWDER mechanism uses rdf:bag, which me therefor have to be careful not to deprecate.

15:58:37 <webr3> rdf-interfaces again allows bnode predicates

Nathan Rixham: rdf-interfaces again allows bnode predicates

15:59:06 <tomayac> davidwood: should we leave it open? or postpone?

David Wood: should we leave it open? or postpone?

15:59:17 <PatH> FWIW< again the semantics is OK with bnode property labels, but some of the entailments might raise eyebrows.

Patrick Hayes: FWIW< again the semantics is OK with bnode property labels, but some of the entailments might raise eyebrows.

15:59:20 <webr3> are we goign to discuss further? if nto postpone

Nathan Rixham: are we goign to discuss further? if nto postpone

15:59:29 <tomayac> RESOLVED: davidwood: ISSUE-50 postponed

RESOLVED: davidwood: ISSUE-50 postponed

15:59:34 <FabGandon> +1 postpone

Fabien Gandon: +1 postpone

15:59:35 <mischat> postpone please ....

Mischa Tuffield: postpone please ....

15:59:37 <pchampin> +1 postpone

Pierre-Antoine Champin: +1 postpone

15:59:37 <SteveH> +1 to postpone

Steve Harris: +1 to postpone

15:59:38 <Souri> +1 to postpone

Souripriya Das: +1 to postpone

15:59:42 <ericP> +1

Eric Prud'hommeaux: +1

15:59:42 <PatH> COWARDS!!

Patrick Hayes: COWARDS!!

15:59:43 <zwu2> +1 to postpone

Zhe Wu: +1 to postpone

15:59:44 <gavinc> +1 postpone

Gavin Carothers: +1 postpone

15:59:45 <webr3> PatH, ty for confirmation, I don't mind raised eyebrows :)

Nathan Rixham: PatH, ty for confirmation, I don't mind raised eyebrows :)

15:59:45 <mbrunati> +1 to postpone

Matteo Brunati: +1 to postpone

15:59:45 <PatH> +1

Patrick Hayes: +1

15:59:46 <cmatheus> +1

Christopher Matheus: +1

15:59:47 <webr3> +1

Nathan Rixham: +1

15:59:57 <ericP> +1 to cowering in fear

Eric Prud'hommeaux: +1 to cowering in fear

16:00:29 <gavinc> RDF Interfaces :\

Gavin Carothers: RDF Interfaces :\

16:00:37 <mischat> as in rdf-interfaces has bnode properties and literal subjects

Mischa Tuffield: as in rdf-interfaces has bnode properties and literal subjects

16:00:54 <tomayac> ivan: this issue is different than the previous one

Ivan Herman: this issue is different than the previous one

16:01:11 <webr3> RDF interface implementations will support it.. rdf semantics do to, serializations don't - doesn't matter, this is behind the "public interface"

Nathan Rixham: RDF interface implementations will support it.. rdf semantics do to, serializations don't - doesn't matter, this is behind the "public interface"

16:01:15 <tomayac> ivan: you might have bnodes as predicates

Ivan Herman: you might have bnodes as predicates

16:01:19 <webr3> +1 to what ivan is saying

Nathan Rixham: +1 to what ivan is saying

16:01:28 <PatH> +1 to Ivan

Patrick Hayes: +1 to Ivan

16:01:31 <zwu2> +1 to Ivan

Zhe Wu: +1 to Ivan

16:01:54 <tomayac> ivan: there was a huge discussion in the rdf applications wg

Ivan Herman: there was a huge discussion in the rdf applications wg

16:01:57 <PatH> This is a general issue, BTW, it also bears on literal subjects.

Patrick Hayes: This is a general issue, BTW, it also bears on literal subjects.

16:02:15 <tomayac> ivan: bnodes as predicates is good in APIs, because if not, implementations might have problems

Ivan Herman: bnodes as predicates is good in APIs in APIs, because if not, implementations might have problems

16:02:29 <pchampin> s/is good/is good in APIs/
16:02:44 <webr3> the needs for serializing RDF are different to the needs for workign with RDF - we need to accept that generally

Nathan Rixham: the needs for serializing RDF are different to the needs for workign with RDF - we need to accept that generally

16:03:05 <AndyS> Is there a serialization API?

Andy Seaborne: Is there a serialization API?

16:03:12 <tomayac> ivan: if it's for me, we can close this issue

Ivan Herman: if it's for me, we can close this issue

16:03:58 <PatH> It will damage the DL/Full boundary in OWL, for sure.

Patrick Hayes: It will damage the DL/Full boundary in OWL, for sure.

16:04:01 <tomayac> ivan: dont want to go down that route

Ivan Herman: dont want to go down that route

16:04:03 <webr3> AndyS, roughly the RDF API (end user focussed) will be more restricted to the convensional (matching serializations)

Nathan Rixham: AndyS, roughly the RDF API (end user focussed) will be more restricted to the convensional (matching serializations)

16:04:32 <tomayac> david: if we postpone it goes to a later wg

David Wood: if we postpone it goes to a later wg

16:04:37 <AndyS> webr3, pointer?

Andy Seaborne: webr3, pointer?

16:04:59 <zwu2> q+

Zhe Wu: q+

16:05:03 <webr3> AndyS, http://www.w3.org/2010/02/rdfa/sources/rdf-api/Overview.html

Nathan Rixham: AndyS, http://www.w3.org/2010/02/rdfa/sources/rdf-api/Overview.html

16:05:03 <PatH> LOL

Patrick Hayes: LOL

16:05:25 <tomayac> davidwood: we're postponing already, leaving leftovers, just like the previous wg did

David Wood: we're postponing already, leaving leftovers, just like the previous wg did

16:05:31 <webr3> can we address it properly, to say semantics allows X serializations are advised to allow Y (Reasons) then CLOSE ?

Nathan Rixham: can we address it properly, to say semantics allows X serializations are advised to allow Y (Reasons) then CLOSE ?

16:05:41 <tomayac> davidwood: if we close, we need to say why

David Wood: if we close, we need to say why

16:06:04 <AndyS> webr3, pointer to serilization? I only see about parser using serialize

Andy Seaborne: webr3, pointer to serilization? I only see about parser using serialize

16:06:13 <tomayac> davidwood: saying it is out of scope is way different than closing

David Wood: saying it is out of scope is way different than closing

16:06:23 <tomayac> ivan: every wg may reopen closed issues

Ivan Herman: every wg may reopen closed issues

16:06:28 <webr3> AndyS, you've confused me - you're looking for?

Nathan Rixham: AndyS, you've confused me - you're looking for?

16:06:42 <davidwood> q?

David Wood: q?

16:06:52 <PatH> Ivan, you read my mind...

Patrick Hayes: Ivan, you read my mind...

16:06:52 <davidwood> ack zwu

David Wood: ack zwu

16:07:15 <PatH> Separate the issues!

Patrick Hayes: Separate the issues!

16:07:17 <tomayac> zwu: how many people would truly object to have literals as subjects and bnodes as predicates

Zhe Wu: how many people would truly object to have literals as subjects and bnodes as predicates

16:07:19 <SteveH> Garlik would object to both / either

Steve Harris: Garlik would object to both / either

16:07:22 <AndyS> A pointer to "roughly the RDF API (end user focussed) will be more restricted to the convensional (matching serializations)"

Andy Seaborne: A pointer to "roughly the RDF API (end user focussed) will be more restricted to the convensional (matching serializations)"

16:07:22 <sandro> STRAWPOLL: Who would object to Liuteral Subjects

STRAWPOLL: Who would object to Liuteral Subjects

16:07:24 <LeeF> Quite possibly.

Lee Feigenbaum: Quite possibly.

16:07:27 <PatH> Im happy with literal subjects.

Patrick Hayes: Im happy with literal subjects.

16:07:28 <ivan> +0.5

Ivan Herman: +0.5

16:07:32 <tomayac> zwu: straw poll, please

Zhe Wu: straw poll, please

16:07:33 <webr3> v happy with +1

Nathan Rixham: v happy with +1

16:07:44 <davidwood> I would possibly object to literal subjects - I have before

David Wood: I would possibly object to literal subjects - I have before

16:07:47 <sandro> STRAWPOLL: Allow Literal Subjects

STRAWPOLL: Allow Literal Subjects

16:07:49 <webr3> +1

Nathan Rixham: +1

16:07:50 <sandro> +1

Sandro Hawke: +1

16:07:51 <SteveH> -1

Steve Harris: -1

16:07:52 <cmatheus> +1

Christopher Matheus: +1

16:07:52 <PatH> +1

Patrick Hayes: +1

16:07:52 <Souri> -1

Souripriya Das: -1

16:07:53 <pchampin> +1

Pierre-Antoine Champin: +1

16:07:53 <LeeF> -0.8

Lee Feigenbaum: -0.8

16:07:54 <AZ> +1

Antoine Zimmermann: +1

16:07:54 <mischat> -1

Mischa Tuffield: -1

16:07:54 <mbrunati> +1

Matteo Brunati: +1

16:07:56 <zwu2> +1

Zhe Wu: +1

16:07:56 <davidwood> -0.5

David Wood: -0.5

16:08:00 <ivan> -0.2

Ivan Herman: -0.2

16:08:01 <OlivierCorby> -1

Olivier Corby: -1

16:08:05 <gavinc> -0

Gavin Carothers: -0

16:08:11 <AlexHall> +0

Alex Hall: +0

16:08:11 <LeeF> ivan + me == 1 full objection! :-)

Lee Feigenbaum: ivan + me == 1 full objection! :-)

16:08:22 <ericP> -1

Eric Prud'hommeaux: -1

16:08:25 <AndyS> Need to think more but quite possibility -1 (because the deployed system impact)

Andy Seaborne: Need to think more but quite possibility -1 (because the deployed system impact)

16:08:36 <FabGandon> -1

Fabien Gandon: -1

16:08:40 <tomayac> zwu asked also for a straw poll on bnodes as predicates

zwu asked also for a straw poll on bnodes as predicates

16:08:59 <sandro> STRAWPOLL; Allow bnodes as predicates

Sandro Hawke: STRAWPOLL; Allow bnodes as predicates

16:09:01 <sandro> +1

Sandro Hawke: +1

16:09:01 <gavinc> +0

Gavin Carothers: +0

16:09:02 <webr3> +1

Nathan Rixham: +1

16:09:02 <ivan> -1

Ivan Herman: -1

16:09:03 <PatH> +1

Patrick Hayes: +1

16:09:03 <zwu2> +1

Zhe Wu: +1

16:09:03 <ericP> -1

Eric Prud'hommeaux: -1

16:09:04 <SteveH> -1

Steve Harris: -1

16:09:04 <Souri> -1

Souripriya Das: -1

16:09:06 <LeeF> -1

Lee Feigenbaum: -1

16:09:06 <AZ> +1

Antoine Zimmermann: +1

16:09:06 <mischat> -1

Mischa Tuffield: -1

16:09:08 <mbrunati> 0

Matteo Brunati: 0

16:09:08 <cmatheus> +0

Christopher Matheus: +0

16:09:08 <OlivierCorby> -1

Olivier Corby: -1

16:09:14 <pchampin> +1

Pierre-Antoine Champin: +1

16:09:14 <FabGandon> -1

Fabien Gandon: -1

16:09:15 <davidwood> +0

David Wood: +0

16:09:25 <AndyS> -0.5

Andy Seaborne: -0.5

16:09:31 <PatH> This is assuming that we have bnodes at all, of course.

Patrick Hayes: This is assuming that we have bnodes at all, of course.

16:09:43 <tomayac> zwu: one for the reasons are: if we are implementing an inference engine, it's way easier to allow, than disallow them

Zhe Wu: one for the reasons are: if we are implementing an inference engine, it's way easier to allow, than disallow them

16:09:44 <gavinc> +1 to PatH

Gavin Carothers: +1 to PatH

16:09:47 <MacTed> bnodes are useful in-process.  they are nothing but trouble once you leave process.

Ted Thibodeau: bnodes are useful in-process. they are nothing but trouble once you leave process.

16:09:48 <davidwood> We have bnodes, Pat :)

David Wood: We have bnodes, Pat :)

16:09:55 <tomayac> ivan: -1 because it would invalidate many things in owl

Ivan Herman: -1 because it would invalidate many things in owl

16:09:57 <PatH> It depends what kind of inference engine uyou are tryuing to implement.

Patrick Hayes: It depends what kind of inference engine uyou are tryuing to implement.

16:10:14 <PatH> OWL-DL would prohibit it rigorously, so it would add a layer of checking to thier engines.

Patrick Hayes: OWL-DL would prohibit it rigorously, so it would add a layer of checking to thier engines.

16:10:28 <FabGandon> +1 to AndyS

Fabien Gandon: +1 to AndyS

16:10:30 <mischat> +1 AndyS

Mischa Tuffield: +1 AndyS

16:10:33 <PatH> +1 to andy

Patrick Hayes: +1 to andy

16:10:44 <tomayac> davidwood: back to ISSUE-50

David Wood: back to ISSUE-50

16:10:47 <gavinc> +0.5 to AndyS ... sometimes it leaks

Gavin Carothers: +0.5 to AndyS ... sometimes it leaks

16:11:01 <tomayac> davidwood: open => discuss, close => out of scope, postponed: let others deal with it

David Wood: open => discuss, close => out of scope, postponed: let others deal with it

16:11:10 <webr3> if it's not an RDF WG level problem, who would it be a problem for?

Nathan Rixham: if it's not an RDF WG level problem, who would it be a problem for?

16:11:11 <AndyS> gavinc, where??? and I'll stop that!!!!!!

Andy Seaborne: gavinc, where??? and I'll stop that!!!!!!

16:11:14 <mischat> it is not webby to serialise statements suchs as  ` "42"   _ :�bnode1 _bnode2 . `

Mischa Tuffield: it is not webby to serialise statements suchs as ` "42" _ :�bnode1 _bnode2 . `

16:11:29 <webr3> +1 leave raised

Nathan Rixham: +1 leave raised

16:11:35 <SteveH> close

Steve Harris: close

16:11:37 <tomayac> davidwood: significant disagreement

David Wood: significant disagreement

16:11:42 <zwu2> +1 postpone it

Zhe Wu: +1 postpone it

16:11:44 <tomayac> ivan: either close or postpone

Ivan Herman: either close or postpone

16:11:46 <LeeF> suggest close

Lee Feigenbaum: suggest close

16:11:47 <cmatheus> +1 leave raised

Christopher Matheus: +1 leave raised

16:11:52 <PatH> Its not in our charter, its a huge can of worms, it owuld screw up OWL (and probably RIF) relatkionships. Lets walk away from it.

Patrick Hayes: Its not in our charter, its a huge can of worms, it owuld screw up OWL (and probably RIF) relatkionships. Lets walk away from it.

16:12:00 <pchampin> +1 postpone

Pierre-Antoine Champin: +1 postpone

16:12:03 <FabGandon> out of scope

Fabien Gandon: out of scope

16:12:17 <Souri> +1 to postpone it

Souripriya Das: +1 to postpone it

16:12:26 <mbrunati> sorry guys i have to leave

Matteo Brunati: sorry guys i have to leave

16:12:29 <PatH> SO, leave it open and ignore it.

Patrick Hayes: SO, leave it open and ignore it.

16:12:30 <tomayac> davidwood: reads what people say on irc

David Wood: reads what people say on irc

16:12:34 <webr3> (I'm saying to leave open/raised until there's good text to close it with or to clarify around the issue)

Nathan Rixham: (I'm saying to leave open/raised until there's good text to close it with or to clarify around the issue)

16:12:39 <Zakim> -mbrunati

Zakim IRC Bot: -mbrunati

16:12:42 <LeeF> I don't think postponing is good. What's the point? If people find this useful and implement it, then we can standardize it in the future. But what's the point in continuing to say "meh"?

Lee Feigenbaum: I don't think postponing is good. What's the point? If people find this useful and implement it, then we can standardize it in the future. But what's the point in continuing to say "meh"?

16:13:16 <SteveH> just close it, a future group can open a new issue if it becomes desirable

Steve Harris: just close it, a future group can open a new issue if it becomes desirable

16:13:21 <tomayac> RESOLVED: davidwood: not enough agreement to postpone

RESOLVED: davidwood: not enough agreement to postpone

16:13:24 <LeeF> +1 SteveH

Lee Feigenbaum: +1 SteveH

16:13:34 <tomayac> davidwood: correction: not enough agreement

David Wood: correction: not enough agreement

16:13:35 <ivan> +1 SteveH

Ivan Herman: +1 SteveH

16:13:37 <LeeF> I'm ok with opening it and then closing it, as well.

Lee Feigenbaum: I'm ok with opening it and then closing it, as well.

16:13:48 <LeeF> -1 to postponing it

Lee Feigenbaum: -1 to postponing it

16:13:52 <webr3> -1

Nathan Rixham: -1

16:13:53 <cmatheus> -1

Christopher Matheus: -1

16:13:53 <sandro> STRAWPOLL: postpone issue 50

STRAWPOLL: postpone ISSUE-50

16:14:12 <PatH> is an open issue like an open sore?

Patrick Hayes: is an open issue like an open sore?

16:14:37 <LeeF> PatH, very very much so

Lee Feigenbaum: PatH, very very much so

16:14:57 <tomayac> davidwood: makes a chair decision to leave it raised. talk about it later

David Wood: makes a chair decision to leave it raised. talk about it later

16:15:09 <mischat> http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/issues/42

Mischa Tuffield: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/issues/42

16:15:14 <tomayac> davidwood: pat raised a question on issue 42

David Wood: pat raised a question on ISSUE-42

16:15:33 <tomayac> path: rdf bag not much use

Patrick Hayes: rdf bag not much use

16:15:48 <tomayac> path: proposed to deprecate rdf bag

Patrick Hayes: proposed to deprecate rdf bag

16:16:10 <tomayac> davidwood: thinks we still could deprecate

David Wood: thinks we still could deprecate

16:16:51 <pchampin> I thought we already excluded the deprecation of rdf:Bag as it was widely used in RSS

Pierre-Antoine Champin: I thought we already excluded the deprecation of rdf:Bag as it was widely used in RSS

16:17:01 <pchampin> (vague memory of the F2F)

Pierre-Antoine Champin: (vague memory of the F2F)

16:17:08 <tomayac> davidwood: out of time for this call

David Wood: out of time for this call

16:17:09 <mischat> i recall that pchampin too

Mischa Tuffield: i recall that pchampin too

16:17:13 <SteveH> pchampin, yes

Steve Harris: pchampin, yes

16:17:20 <PatH> pcahmpin, good point. thnx.

Patrick Hayes: pcahmpin, good point. thnx.

16:17:20 <tomayac> davidwood: remaining issues => later call

David Wood: remaining issues => later call

16:17:26 <tomayac> Topic: davidwood: AOB?

5. davidwood: AOB?

16:17:33 <Zakim> -[IPcaller]

Zakim IRC Bot: -[IPcaller]

16:17:34 <Zakim> -Souri

Zakim IRC Bot: -Souri

16:17:35 <tomayac> davidwood: call adjourned

David Wood: call adjourned

16:17:36 <zwu2> bye

Zhe Wu: bye

16:17:36 <mischat> would be nice to have the next f2f sorted

Mischa Tuffield: would be nice to have the next f2f sorted

16:17:36 <Zakim> -sandro

Zakim IRC Bot: -sandro

16:17:37 <Zakim> -[Garlik]

Zakim IRC Bot: -[Garlik]

16:17:37 <PatH> ivan, to handle that issue we discussed.

Patrick Hayes: ivan, to handle that issue we discussed.

16:17:37 <Zakim> -cmatheus

Zakim IRC Bot: -cmatheus

16:17:39 <Zakim> -AlexHall

Zakim IRC Bot: -AlexHall

16:17:39 <mischat> doh

Mischa Tuffield: doh

16:17:41 <mischat> bye all

Mischa Tuffield: bye all

16:17:41 <Zakim> -MacTed

Zakim IRC Bot: -MacTed

16:17:43 <Zakim> -OlivierCorby

Zakim IRC Bot: -OlivierCorby

16:17:43 <Zakim> -zwu2

Zakim IRC Bot: -zwu2

16:17:45 <Zakim> -PatH

Zakim IRC Bot: -PatH

16:17:46 <Zakim> -gavinc

Zakim IRC Bot: -gavinc

16:17:50 <Zakim> -Russell

Scribe problem: the name 'Russell' does not match any of the 49 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Jean-François Baget Adrien BASSE Scott Bauer Dan Brickley Matteo Brunati Gaoussou CAMARA Gavin Carothers Jeremy Carroll Pierre-Antoine Champin Kiu Ching Chieh Olivier Corby Richard Cyganiak Souripriya Das Ian Davis Lee Feigenbaum Fabien Gandon Alex Hall Steve Harris Michael Hausenblas Sandro Hawke Patrick Hayes Ivan Herman Nicholas Humfrey Kingsley Idehen Arnaud Le Hors Dickson Lukose Christopher Matheus Ivan Mikhailov Peter Patel-Schneider Axel Polleres Eric Prud'hommeaux Yves Raimond Nathan Rixham Guus Schreiber Andy Seaborne Manu Sporny Thomas Steiner Mouhamadou THIAM Ted Thibodeau Mischa Tuffield William Waites Jan Wielemaker David Wood Zhe Wu Mohamed ZERGAOUI Antoine Zimmermann Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Zakim IRC Bot: -Russell

16:17:51 <Zakim> -Scott

Zakim IRC Bot: -Scott

16:18:22 <AndyS> webr3 - I see nothing about serialization

Andy Seaborne: webr3 - I see nothing about serialization

16:19:09 <pchampin> rrsagent, make minutes

Pierre-Antoine Champin: rrsagent, make minutes

16:19:09 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/05/04-rdf-wg-minutes.html pchampin

RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/05/04-rdf-wg-minutes.html pchampin

16:19:15 <davidwood> tomayac: You can edit http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/meeting/2011-05-04 via the wiki once they are generated

Thomas Steiner: You can edit http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/meeting/2011-05-04 via the wiki once they are generated [ Scribe Assist by David Wood ]

16:19:23 <ivan> http://www.w3.org/2009/CommonScribe/manual

Ivan Herman: http://www.w3.org/2009/CommonScribe/manual

16:19:55 <ivan> http://www.w3.org/2009/CommonScribe/panel/

Ivan Herman: http://www.w3.org/2009/CommonScribe/panel/

16:20:03 <Zakim> -AndyS

Zakim IRC Bot: -AndyS

16:21:35 <Zakim> -FabGandon

Zakim IRC Bot: -FabGandon



Formatted by CommonScribe


This revision (#3) generated 2011-09-20 22:48:51 UTC by 'unknown', comments: 'testing wikiscribe'