Chatlog 2012-04-19

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14:51:55 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #prov
14:51:55 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/04/19-prov-irc
14:51:57 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
14:51:57 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #prov
14:51:59 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 
14:51:59 <Zakim> I don't understand 'this will be', trackbot
14:52:00 <trackbot> Meeting: Provenance Working Group Teleconference
14:52:00 <trackbot> Date: 19 April 2012
14:52:01 <pgroth> Zakim, this will be PROV
14:52:01 <Zakim> ok, pgroth; I see SW_(PROV)11:00AM scheduled to start in 8 minutes
14:52:25 <pgroth> Agenda: http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/Meetings:Telecon2012.04.19
14:52:33 <pgroth> Chair: Paul Groth
14:52:44 <pgroth> Scribe: Curt Tilmes
14:52:51 <pgroth> rrsagent, make logs public
14:53:03 <pgroth> Regrets: Jun Zhao
14:55:57 <Curt> Curt has joined #prov
14:56:25 <Zakim> SW_(PROV)11:00AM has now started
14:56:32 <Zakim> +Curt_Tilmes
14:56:45 <pgroth> hi curt
14:56:48 <pgroth> it's all set-up
14:56:55 <Paolo> Paolo has joined #prov
14:57:02 <Curt> got it
14:57:33 <Zakim> +??P1
14:58:14 <Zakim> +??P6
15:00:35 <Zakim> +Sandro
15:00:49 <satya> satya has joined #prov
15:00:58 <Curt> regrets: Graham, Jun
15:00:58 <Zakim> +OpenLink_Software
15:01:08 <smiles> smiles has joined #prov
15:01:09 <MacTed> Zakim, OpenLink_Software is temporarily me
15:01:09 <Zakim> +MacTed; got it
15:01:12 <Zakim> +??P3
15:01:24 <Zakim> +??P12
15:01:36 <tlebo> tlebo has joined #prov
15:01:42 <Zakim> + +1.315.723.aaaa
15:01:48 <tlebo> zakim, I am aaaa
15:01:48 <Zakim> +tlebo; got it
15:01:59 <Zakim> +Satya_Sahoo
15:02:00 <khalidbelhajjame> khalidbelhajjame has joined #prov
15:02:01 <Luc> Luc has joined #prov
15:02:17 <TomDN> TomDN has joined #prov
15:02:51 <Zakim> +??P2
15:02:56 <YolandaGil> YolandaGil has joined #prov
15:02:58 <khalidbelhajjame> zakim, ??P2 is me
15:03:00 <Zakim> +[ISI]
15:03:13 <Zakim> +khalidbelhajjame; got it
15:03:14 <Zakim> +Luc
15:03:22 <Zakim> + +329331aabb
15:03:25 <Zakim> -??P3
15:03:28 <jcheney> jcheney has joined #prov
15:03:32 <Zakim> +??P3
15:03:47 <TomDN> Zakim, +329331aabb is me
15:03:47 <Zakim> +TomDN; got it
15:03:53 <Zakim> +??P15
15:03:59 <jcheney> Zakim, ??P15 is me
15:03:59 <Zakim> +jcheney; got it
15:04:06 <stephenc> stephenc has joined #prov
15:04:40 <pgroth> Topic: Admin
<pgroth> Summary: Minutes were approved. Action items were cleared-up
15:04:49 <pgroth> http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/Meetings:Telecon2012.04.19
15:04:57 <Curt> +1
15:04:58 <TomDN> +1
15:04:59 <satya> +1
15:05:04 <Paolo> +1
15:05:11 <jcheney> +1
15:05:25 <smiles> Isn't that link just the agenda?
15:05:31 <tlebo> +1
15:05:36 <tlebo> http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/meeting/2012-04-12
15:05:52 <pgroth> Approved- Minutes of the April 12 2012 Telecon
15:06:09 <TomDN> Note Sam is held up in an overlapping meeting atm. He will join us shortly
15:06:34 <Curt> pgroth: action 70, review of 84,262,263,268
15:06:37 <Curt> luc: completed
15:06:50 <Curt> pgroth: action 73 
15:06:57 <Curt> stephen: can be closed
15:07:26 <Curt> pgroth: action 74,76,77 use cases for collections have been provided
15:07:36 <Curt> pgroth: scribes, need them
15:07:43 <pgroth> Topic: PAQ Reviews
<pgroth> Summary: All reviewers were making progress on their reviews of the paq.
15:08:13 <Curt> pgroth: how is review coming?
15:08:20 <Curt> curt: in progress
15:08:31 <Curt> pgroth: olaf in progress
15:08:47 <tlebo> \me looking forward to reviewing it when he finds time.
15:08:49 <Curt> TomDN: Sam will submit PAQ review tomorrow
15:09:04 <Curt> tlebo: will review soon
15:09:13 <Curt> luc: will review soon, finishing off other documents first
15:09:41 <Curt> pgroth: after week-end for PAQ reviews should be ok
15:10:04 <jcheney> NB - the minutes say: "Curt, Olaf, Sam, Tim and Luc agreed to review it, mostly by around April 20"
15:10:15 <pgroth> Topic: Release of Documents
<pgroth> Summary: Editors gave a summary of their updates based on the reviews provided by the group. The group unanimously voted to release prov-dm, prov-constraints, prov-n, prov-o and the prov-primer as working drafts. Editors agreed to have their documents ready for publication by April 30 for publication May 3.  
15:10:38 <tlebo> [ a prov:Entity; prov:value "mostly by around April 20. "; prov:wasQuotedFrom <http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/meeting/2012-04-12> ] .
15:10:41 <Curt> pgroth: several changes need to be done/have been discussed
15:11:01 <Luc> http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/prov/raw-file/default/model/diff.html
15:11:06 <Curt> ... invalidation/collection vs. dictionary
15:11:18 <Curt> luc: worked on DM, changes circulated
15:11:40 <Curt> ... paolo/james may talk about other documents
15:11:52 <Curt> ... all changes recommended by reviewers have been addressed
15:12:03 <Curt> ... accounts/annotations not covered in this release
15:12:13 <Curt> ... a draft for invalidation has been proposed
15:12:38 <Curt> ... assuming PROV-O team can include invalidation, should all be ready
15:12:48 <Curt> ... there was a suggestion to rename collection to dictionary
15:12:58 <Curt> ... may want to incorporate that change now
15:14:03 <Curt> jcheney: prov-constraints changes
15:14:06 <jcheney> http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/prov/raw-file/default/model/working-copy/wd5-prov-dm-constraints-revised.html
15:14:30 <Curt> ... starting from last reviewed version
15:14:30 <jcheney> http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/prov/raw-file/default/model/working-copy/wd5-prov-dm-constraints.html
15:14:56 <Curt> ... two major criticisms from tim/graham/james -- organization and lack of clarity of purpose
15:14:56 <Luc> ^^^ not the right  url
15:14:59 <Luc> http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/prov/raw-file/default/model/prov-dm-constraints.html
15:15:23 <Curt> ... first part easier to address.  reorganized what was there to group similar things together
15:15:35 <Curt> ... sections on inferences, and different types of constraints
15:15:51 <Curt> ... haven't invented a complete story fitting this document into the overall context
15:16:04 <Curt> ... added notes about some things that still need explanation
15:16:31 <Curt> ... graham/james asked the overall purpose for this document
15:16:54 <TomDN> Zakim, mute me
15:16:54 <Zakim> TomDN should now be muted
15:17:12 <Curt> ... taken the view that this document adds additional information to a provenance description
15:17:23 <Curt> ... wants guidance from group
15:17:40 <Curt> ... if we release, should emphasize that this is a working draft
15:17:54 <pgroth> q?
15:17:57 <Curt> ... still internalizing some aspects of the document
15:18:03 <pgroth> q?
15:18:12 <Paolo> PROV-N - http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/prov/raw-file/default/model/prov-n.html
15:18:50 <Curt> paolo: prov-n changes incorporated - sections rearranged for clarification of scope, organization
15:19:17 <Curt> ... new section 1, 2 explain scope/context
15:20:03 <Curt> ... simon suggested discuss arguments of each expression clearly, new version clarifies that for each example
15:20:20 <Curt> ... includes different meanings for optional arguments
15:20:42 <dgarijo> dgarijo has joined #prov
15:21:02 <Zakim> +??P38
15:21:13 <Curt> ... tim suggested hyperlink nodes to yacc description, still need to add some yacc/html stuff
15:21:15 <dgarijo> Zakim, ??P38 is me
15:21:16 <Zakim> +dgarijo; got it
15:21:28 <pgroth> +q
15:21:31 <pgroth> ack pgroth
15:21:33 <pgroth> q?
15:21:43 <tlebo> latest draft to release:  http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/prov/raw-file/e35dff3bbd37/ontology/spwd/2012-04-18-vote-for-public-release/prov-o.html#Start
15:21:44 <Curt> tlebo: prov-o
15:22:03 <tlebo> reworked expanded terms section reworked collections section added infrastructure and stubs for examples in cross reference sections.
15:22:05 <Curt> ... 3 biggest changes: rework terms section, collections section
15:22:16 <Curt> ... thanks stain/khalid
15:22:31 <Curt> ... crossreference, added stubs for examples
15:22:35 <tlebo> last round of comments being managed at http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/Prov-o_draft_review_2_April_2012
15:23:06 <Curt> ... issues being addressed/closed there ^^
15:23:13 <pgroth> q?
15:23:27 <dgarijo> thanks Tim for including everything so fast.
15:23:30 <Curt> smiles: primer
15:23:41 <smiles> http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/prov/raw-file/default/primer/Primer.html
15:23:42 <Curt> ... addressed all reviews
15:23:53 <Curt> ... added images to illustrate examples
15:23:56 <Curt> ... many other minor things
15:24:05 <tlebo> += "thanks to daniel for help on reworked expaned terms section"
15:24:08 <Curt> ... up to date with regard to prov-dm prov-n
15:24:25 <pgroth> q?
15:24:27 <Curt> ... explaining things in a more intuitive way
15:24:39 <Luc> q+
15:24:42 <Curt> pgroth: proposals to vote on
15:24:48 <pgroth> ack luc
15:25:04 <Curt> luc: simon brought up how we use prov and prov-dm
15:25:10 <SamCoppens> SamCoppens has joined #prov
15:25:14 <Curt> ... should use prov instead of prov-dm in some places
15:25:30 <TomDN> Zakim, SamCoppens is with TomDN
15:25:30 <Zakim> +SamCoppens; got it
15:25:32 <Curt> ... looked at constraints, that apply to prov model
15:25:58 <Curt> ... should call prov-constraints instead of prov-dm-constraints 
15:26:12 <pgroth> Proposal 1: Following internal and external feedback, the first deliverable (referred to as "D1. PIL Conceptual Model" in the charter) is reorganized into three separate documents. The three documents are now known by their respective short names: prov-dm, prov-constraints, prov-n. These documents are intended to become W3C Recommendations.
15:26:36 <MacTed> +1
15:26:39 <Curt> +1
15:26:40 <tlebo> +1
15:26:40 <TomDN> +1
15:26:40 <smiles> +1
15:26:41 <Paolo> +1
15:26:42 <dgarijo> +1
15:26:44 <SamCoppens> +1
15:26:45 <stephenc> +1
15:26:45 <jcheney> +1
15:26:46 <sandro> +1
15:26:47 <YolandaGil> +1
15:26:50 <satya> +1
15:27:08 <pgroth> accepted:  Following internal and external feedback, the first deliverable (referred to as "D1. PIL Conceptual Model" in the charter) is reorganized into three separate documents. The three documents are now known by their respective short names: prov-dm, prov-constraints, prov-n. These documents are intended to become W3C Recommendations.
15:27:25 <pgroth> Proposal 2: Release the current version of prov-dm document as fourth public working draft
15:27:32 <tlebo> +1
15:27:33 <Paolo> +1
15:27:33 <smiles> +1
15:27:33 <satya> +1
15:27:34 <Curt> +1
15:27:34 <sandro> +1
15:27:34 <dgarijo> +1
15:27:35 <SamCoppens> +1
15:27:35 <MacTed> +1
15:27:35 <jcheney> +1
15:27:36 <TomDN> +1
15:27:37 <YolandaGil> +1
15:27:53 <pgroth> accepted: Release the current version of prov-dm document as fourth public working draft
15:27:54 <khalidbelhajjame> +1
15:28:12 <pgroth> Proposal 3: Release the current version of prov-constraints document as first public working draft
15:28:15 <MacTed> +1
15:28:17 <khalidbelhajjame> +1
15:28:19 <Curt> +1
15:28:19 <sandro> +1
15:28:20 <TomDN> +1
15:28:20 <SamCoppens> +1
15:28:21 <tlebo> +1
15:28:21 <dgarijo> +1
15:28:24 <YolandaGil> +1
15:28:28 <Paolo> +1
15:28:34 <jcheney> +1
15:28:43 <satya> +1
15:28:53 <pgroth> accepted: Release the current version of prov-constraints document as first public working draft
15:29:03 <pgroth> Proposal 4: Release the current version of prov-n document as first public working draft
15:29:07 <smiles> +1
15:29:08 <MacTed> +1
15:29:08 <khalidbelhajjame> +1
15:29:08 <tlebo> +1
15:29:09 <Curt> +1
15:29:09 <TomDN> +1
15:29:10 <dgarijo> +1
15:29:10 <Paolo> +1
15:29:10 <SamCoppens> +1
15:29:10 <sandro> +1
15:29:13 <satya> +1
15:29:15 <YolandaGil> +1
15:29:19 <jcheney> +1
15:29:22 <zednik> zednik has joined #prov
15:29:29 <pgroth> accepted: Release the current version of prov-n document as first public working draft
15:29:44 <pgroth> Proposal 5: Release the current version of prov-o document as second public working draft
15:29:45 <satya> +1
15:29:46 <dgarijo> +1
15:29:46 <SamCoppens> +1
15:29:46 <Curt> +1
15:29:47 <smiles> +1
15:29:48 <khalidbelhajjame> +1
15:29:48 <TomDN> +1
15:29:49 <sandro> +1
15:29:49 <tlebo> +1
15:29:51 <MacTed> +1
15:29:51 <Paolo> +1
15:29:53 <jcheney> +1
15:29:56 <YolandaGil> +1
15:30:10 <pgroth> accepted: Release the current version of prov-o document as second public working draft
15:30:24 <pgroth> Proposal 6: Release the current version of prov-primer document as second public working draft
15:30:26 <dgarijo> +1
15:30:26 <satya> +1
15:30:27 <SamCoppens> +1
15:30:27 <jcheney> +1
15:30:28 <smiles> +1
15:30:28 <Zakim> +??P14
15:30:28 <Curt> +1
15:30:28 <TomDN> +1
15:30:29 <khalidbelhajjame> +1
15:30:29 <Paolo> +1
15:30:30 <sandro> +1
15:30:32 <MacTed> +1
15:30:34 <YolandaGil> +1
15:30:47 <pgroth> accepted:  Release the current version of prov-primer document as second public working draft
15:31:04 <pgroth> q?
15:31:07 <Luc> q+
15:31:09 <smiles> q+
15:31:14 <pgroth> ack Luc
15:31:47 <Luc> q-
15:31:52 <Curt> luc: collection/dictionary question?
15:31:58 <Curt> pgroth: after invalidation
15:31:59 <pgroth> ack smiles
15:32:04 <Luc> i will coordinate
15:32:23 <pgroth> Topic: Collection and Dictionary
<pgroth> Summary: Discussion on the mailing list suggested that there was consensus to rename the current prov:Collections to prov:Dictionary. The group agreed that this was a good idea and approved a proposal to make this change in the upcoming release. The group agreed to continue and discuss collections as a whole on the list.
15:33:00 <Curt> pgroth: consensus on mailing list that collections as modeled are really dictionaries.  Should we rename to that?
15:33:07 <pgroth> q?
15:33:11 <Curt> ... should that be done for this release?
15:33:33 <Curt> pgroth: a simple renaming
15:33:38 <Paolo> q+
15:33:39 <Curt> ... editors have issues with that?
15:33:53 <pgroth> ack Paolo
15:34:02 <Curt> paolo: discussed on the list, 
15:34:30 <Curt> ... may be some follow on discussion about different types of collections, but no issues with renaming as an editor
15:34:42 <pgroth> Proposal rename prov:Collection into prov:Dictionary
15:34:51 <tlebo> :D
15:34:52 <pgroth> rename prov:Collection into prov:Dictionary for this synchronous release 
15:35:04 <pgroth> Proposal rename prov:Collection into prov:Dictionary for this synchronous release
15:35:13 <smiles> +1
15:35:13 <khalidbelhajjame> +1
15:35:13 <Paolo> +1
15:35:14 <Curt> +1
15:35:14 <tlebo> +1
15:35:15 <dgarijo> +0
15:35:18 <sandro> +1
15:35:20 <jcheney> +1
15:35:21 <zednik> +1
15:35:21 <MacTed> +0
15:35:26 <TomDN> +0
15:35:28 <satya> 0
15:35:31 <SamCoppens> +0
15:35:52 <Curt> pgroth: for people who voted 0, why? objections?
15:36:08 <satya> q+
15:36:10 <dgarijo> Because I haven't been able to follow all the discussions around collections. I don't have objections
15:36:38 <Luc> no, we would not
15:36:39 <TomDN> for me: I'm not up to date on the discussion, but have no objections
15:36:46 <Curt> satya: do we have a collection construct?
15:36:47 <SamCoppens> No objections, but not up to date with latest discussion, hence 0
15:36:59 <Curt> pgroth: perhaps add back in after release
15:37:22 <Curt> satya: still discussion needs to happen, won't hold up release
15:37:36 <Curt> pgroth: yes, discussion will continue, question is simply to rename for this release
15:37:43 <MacTed> I think too much discussion remains to make action worthwhile... but I'm not going to block either way
15:37:54 <pgroth> accepted: rename prov:Collection into prov:Dictionary for this synchronous release
15:38:05 <pgroth> q?
15:38:08 <pgroth> ack satya
15:38:18 <pgroth> Topic: Invalidation/Destruction
<pgroth> Summary: Luc put together a revised proposal for invalidation and destruction which seemed to have support on the mailing list. The group approved the integration  of this proposal into the upcoming release of the documents. 
15:38:39 <Curt> pgroth: some discussion around invalidation/destruction, would be nice to have for symmetry
15:38:42 <Luc> http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/prov/raw-file/default/model/working-copy/wd5-prov-invalidation.html
15:38:50 <Curt> ... not too much disagreement around it
15:39:08 <Curt> pgroth: incorporate into DM?
15:39:40 <Curt> luc: we took into account the feedback from macted, graham, and other discussion, folded into the document^^
15:39:49 <Curt> ... a few people commented they like it
15:39:52 <pgroth> q?
15:40:04 <pgroth> Proposal 7: Incorporate the invalidation/destruction in prov-dm for immediate release
15:40:11 <smiles> +1
15:40:12 <Curt> +1
15:40:13 <khalidbelhajjame> +1
15:40:13 <tlebo> +1
15:40:14 <TomDN> +1
15:40:15 <MacTed> +1
15:40:17 <dgarijo> +1
15:40:18 <SamCoppens> +1
15:40:20 <jcheney> +1
15:40:22 <stephenc> +1
15:40:22 <sandro> +1
15:40:28 <satya> +1
15:40:29 <Paolo> +1
15:40:29 <zednik> +1
15:40:42 <pgroth> accepted:  Incorporate the invalidation/destruction in prov-dm for immediate release
15:41:09 <smiles> q+
15:41:12 <Curt> pgroth: that covers this synchronous release.  any other issues about that release?
15:41:19 <pgroth> ack smiles
15:41:29 <Curt> smiles: the documents refer to each other with correct references?
15:41:53 <Luc> yes, it's part of the release process
15:41:55 <tlebo> prov-o's references need to be updated too. That's just part of publication, right?
15:41:59 <Curt> pgroth: luc to coordinate release, can you check that?
15:42:02 <Curt> luc: yes
15:42:13 <Luc> q+
15:42:13 <pgroth> q?
15:42:22 <pgroth> ack Luc
15:42:33 <Curt> luc: we need to agree on the actual release date.
15:42:55 <Curt> ... two approvals to pass, get short names for new documents, then publication requests for all new documents
15:43:08 <Curt> ... need 4 working days of notice, what is a reasonable date?
15:43:29 <Curt> ... can only publish on tuesday or thursday
15:43:36 <Curt> ... perhaps tuesday May 1?
15:43:52 <pgroth> is that a holiday sandro?
15:43:57 <smiles> yes, possible, I think
15:43:57 <Curt> luc: all editors would need to be ready by next Tuesday or Wednesday
15:43:58 <tlebo> That is very tight for me.
15:44:27 <jcheney> q+
15:44:39 <pgroth> ack jcheney
15:44:52 <Curt> jcheney: how much work to get from where we are with constraints to fit required style?
15:45:12 <Curt> luc: the version was html 5 compliant mostly, not sure if you have preserved that
15:45:30 <Curt> luc: most things get taken care of to create the compliant files
15:45:52 <Curt> ... look at models subdir in mercurial to see it
15:45:58 <pgroth> q?
15:46:15 <Curt> jcheney: will luc/paolo do that publication work or james?
15:46:30 <Paolo> I can help but I have not done it before
15:46:36 <Curt> luc: if there aren't many HTML problems, luc could do it in a couple hours, would be nice to get some help with that
15:46:50 <Curt> sandro: all editors should try to make compliant html and check links
15:47:28 <Curt> pgroth: try end of next week, then go for May 3?
15:47:57 <Curt> pgroth: would make the request for the names
15:48:08 <Curt> luc: yes, transition request today, will copy all editors
15:48:34 <Curt> luc: time to make the document compliant with rules after making publication request
15:48:42 <smiles> yes
15:48:45 <Luc> +1
15:48:49 <Paolo> ok
15:48:53 <tlebo> q+
15:48:55 <Curt> pgroth: Editors -- May 3 release ok?
15:49:08 <Curt> tlebo: what needs to be done by May 3
15:49:26 <Curt> pgroth: make the compliant document available
15:49:31 <pgroth> ack tlebo
15:49:44 <Curt> luc: that should be done by April 30 to start process and checks
15:50:00 <Curt> tlebo: 4/30 sounds reasonable
15:50:01 <tlebo> q-
15:50:19 <pgroth> q?
15:50:32 <tlebo> and the WG! :D
15:50:34 <Curt> pgroth: 4/30 for editors to be ready, 5/3 for actual release
15:50:38 <pgroth> Topic: Discussion on OWL RL
<pgroth> Summary: There is a requirement that the ontology be "lightweight". This has been operationalized by ensuring that the ontology is compatible with OWL-RL. However, this was causing difficulty in appropriately mapping to the DM. Through discussion on the mailing list, a new approach was suggested where OWL-RL was treated as a baseline but certain deviations were allowed but needed to be documented. The group agreed that this was guidance the editors of prov-o should follow.
15:51:12 <Curt> pgroth: current ontology compliant with RL, but has difficulties modeling all constructs of the DM
15:51:32 <Curt> ... RL is operationalize 'lightweight ontology' requirement
15:51:53 <Curt> ... editors and PROV-O people have a hard time with the RL constraint
15:52:08 <Curt> ... would be nice to relax that requirement and allow certain other non-RL constructs to be used
15:52:29 <Curt> ... Is that ok?  How do we make sure we remain 'lightweight'?
15:52:59 <Curt> <silence>
15:53:00 <pgroth> q?
15:53:01 <tlebo> q+
15:53:10 <dgarijo> I think that the RL++ proposed by Tim made sense.
15:53:14 <pgroth> ack tlebo
15:53:29 <Curt> tlebo: we generally agreed to relax RL slightly, and enumerate the violations
15:53:44 <Curt> ... clearly point out the constructs that aren't recognized by RL
15:53:58 <Curt> ... RL reasoners can still omit those constructs 
15:54:12 <Curt> ... RL is the baseline for lightweight characteristics, but allow a few violations
15:54:34 <Curt> pgroth: which constructs will you need?  unions on domain/range?
15:55:03 <Curt> tlebo: yes, there are now two unions on domain/range, and that addresses design issues, a nice option to include those
15:55:25 <Curt> ... if there are other things we want to use, each kind of construct will be considered individually
15:55:36 <pgroth> q?
15:55:40 <Curt> ... unions alone are helpful
15:55:49 <dgarijo> hadRole and hadActivity are the ones with unions
15:55:59 <Curt> pgroth: not very controversial.
15:56:24 <Curt> luc; isn't this already in the release we've approved?
15:56:44 <Curt> pgroth: yes, but this is a real change in the direction of PROV-O.  Want support from the group on that.
15:57:33 <pgroth> proposal: the ontology will be based on OWL-RL and any deviations from that profile will be documented in the ontology documentation 
15:57:45 <tlebo> +1
15:57:49 <dgarijo> +1
15:57:49 <satya> +1
15:57:49 <jcheney> +1
15:57:49 <Curt> +1
15:57:51 <Paolo> +1
15:57:51 <khalidbelhajjame> +1
15:57:52 <TomDN> +1
15:57:53 <smiles> +1 (to the limited extent of my knowledge)
15:57:54 <stephenc> +1
15:57:56 <sandro> +1
15:57:56 <SamCoppens> +1
15:57:59 <zednik> q+
15:58:17 <tlebo> q+
15:58:17 <Curt> zednik: do we have guidelines on which deviations will be permitted?
15:58:23 <pgroth> ack zednik
15:58:36 <Luc> q+
15:58:38 <Curt> tlebo: unions in domains/ranges ok for now, other changes need to be considered
15:58:52 <pgroth> ack tlebo
15:59:00 <tlebo> q-
15:59:03 <pgroth> ack Luc
15:59:03 <zednik> q-
15:59:06 <Curt> zednik: what about existential dependents (?)?
15:59:28 <Curt> luc: RL will work ok even with non-RL compliant constructs
15:59:34 <Curt> tlebo: yes, it will skip over them
15:59:56 <tlebo> the simplicity of RL is that it's based on a set of rules application.
16:00:03 <Curt> pgroth: try to stick with RL as a baseline
16:00:35 <tlebo> @zednik, go a head and raise the ISSUE so we can consider it.
16:00:41 <Curt> pgroth: make an argument for each other non-RL thing to use
16:00:55 <pgroth> q?
16:01:05 <pgroth> accepted: the ontology will be based on OWL-RL and any deviations from that profile will be documented in the ontology documentation
16:01:11 <Zakim> -Satya_Sahoo
16:01:11 <TomDN> Zakim, unmute me
16:01:12 <Zakim> TomDN should no longer be muted
16:01:12 <Zakim> -??P12
16:01:13 <Zakim> -tlebo
16:01:13 <Zakim> -??P6
16:01:14 <SamCoppens> Thanks, Bye
16:01:14 <zednik> @tlebo, raise the issue on guidelines or on existential dependence?
16:01:15 <Zakim> -Luc
16:01:17 <Zakim> -dgarijo
16:01:19 <Zakim> -khalidbelhajjame
16:01:22 <Zakim> -Sandro
16:01:23 <Zakim> -jcheney
16:01:25 <SamCoppens> SamCoppens has left #prov
16:01:29 <Zakim> -TomDN
16:01:31 <Zakim> -MacTed
16:01:35 <pgroth> rrsagent, set logs public
16:01:39 <Zakim> -Curt_Tilmes
16:01:40 <pgroth> rrsagent, draft minutes
16:01:40 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/04/19-prov-minutes.html pgroth
16:01:45 <pgroth> trackbot, end telcon
16:01:45 <trackbot> Zakim, list attendees
16:01:47 <Zakim> -??P14
16:01:53 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been Curt_Tilmes, Sandro, MacTed, +1.315.723.aaaa, tlebo, Satya_Sahoo, [ISI], khalidbelhajjame, Luc, TomDN, jcheney, dgarijo, SamCoppens
16:01:53 <trackbot> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
16:01:53 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/04/19-prov-minutes.html trackbot
16:01:54 <trackbot> RRSAgent, bye
16:01:54 <RRSAgent> I see no action items
16:01:56 <Zakim> -??P1
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