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15:03:05 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #prov 15:03:05 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/07/19-prov-irc 15:03:07 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world 15:03:09 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 15:03:10 <Zakim> I don't understand 'this will be', trackbot 15:03:10 <trackbot> Meeting: Provenance Working Group Teleconference 15:03:11 <trackbot> Date: 19 July 2012 15:03:13 <pgroth> Zakim, this will be PROV 15:03:13 <Zakim> ok, pgroth, I see SW_(PROV)11:00AM already started 15:03:28 <pgroth> Agenda: http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/Meetings:Telecon2012.07.19 15:03:36 <Zakim> +??P30 15:03:41 <pgroth> Chair: Paul Groth 15:03:42 <TomDN> Zakim, who is on the phone? 15:03:42 <Zakim> On the phone I see TomDN, ??P2, Luc, ??P11, stain, ??P25, ??P27, ??P30 15:03:46 <christine> christine has joined #prov 15:03:47 <pgroth> Scribe: TomDN 15:03:49 <Zakim> -??P25 15:03:57 <pgroth> Zakim, ??P25 is me 15:03:57 <Zakim> I already had ??P25 as ??P25, pgroth 15:04:11 <pgroth> rrsagent, make logs public 15:04:28 <Zakim> +??P25 15:04:32 <stain> I'm amazed - Zakim recognized me today.. 15:04:37 <dgarijo> Zakim, ??P25 is me 15:04:37 <Zakim> + +44.131.467.aaaa - is perhaps jcheney? 15:04:37 <Zakim> +dgarijo; got it 15:04:52 <TomDN> zakim, mute me 15:04:52 <Zakim> TomDN should now be muted 15:04:59 <pgroth> Regrets: Curt Tilmes, Hook Hua, Stephan Zednik, Graham Klyne, Sandro Hawke 15:05:06 <jcheney> zakim, aaaa is me 15:05:07 <pgroth> Topic: Admin <pgroth> Summary: Minutes of last two weeks of meetings approved. 15:05:11 <Zakim> sorry, jcheney, I do not recognize a party named 'aaaa' 15:05:18 <pgroth> http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/meeting/2012-07-05 15:05:21 <jcheney> zakim, +44.131.467.aaaa is me 15:05:23 <pgroth> Minutes of the July 05, 2012 Telecon 15:05:24 <Zakim> sorry, jcheney, I do not recognize a party named '+44.131.467.aaaa' 15:05:27 <Luc> zakim, who is here? 15:05:29 <Zakim> On the phone I see TomDN (muted), ??P2, Luc, ??P11, stain, ??P27, ??P30, dgarijo, jcheney? 15:05:34 <Zakim> On IRC I see christine, RRSAgent, dgarijo, jcheney, Zakim, Paolo, smiles, Luc, Dong, pgroth, TomDN, MacTed, trackbot, stain, sandro 15:05:36 <TomDN> +0 (did not attend) 15:05:41 <smiles> 0 15:05:42 <dgarijo> +0 15:05:49 <Paolo> +1 15:05:51 <jcheney> +1 15:05:59 <stain> +1 15:06:19 <pgroth> accepted: Minutes of the July 05, 2012 Telecon 15:06:26 <pgroth> http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/meeting/2012-07-12 15:06:39 <pgroth> Minutes of the July 12, 2012 Telecon 15:06:51 <smiles> 0 15:06:53 <Paolo> +1 15:06:59 <dgarijo> 0 15:07:00 <jcheney> +1 15:07:06 <stain> +1 15:07:31 <Zakim> +??P38 15:07:50 <pgroth> accepted: Minutes of the July 12, 2012 Telecon 15:07:52 <pgroth> q? 15:08:21 <TomDN> pgroth: Paolo and Paul still have an action 15:08:34 <pgroth> s/Paolo/Paulo/ 15:08:41 <Zakim> + +238055aabb 15:08:48 <pgroth> Topic: Prov-Constraints <pgroth> Summary: Prov-constraints document to be available Friday, July 20th for review by the group for release as last call. Simon, Stian, Tim, and Paul agreed to review. One week was given for the review period. August 2nd would be the vote on releasing as last call. 15:08:49 <stephenc> stephenc has joined #prov 15:09:11 <TomDN> pgroth: There has been a lot of email traffic on the constraints, and we're trying to get something out for review 15:09:39 <TomDN> jcheney: There's a clear plan to release something for review in the next day or two 15:09:49 <jcheney> http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/prov/raw-file/default/model/prov-constraints.html 15:09:55 <TomDN> luc: aim for release for internal review is tomorrow 15:10:48 <TomDN> jcheney: There's been some discussion on the mailing list and some off-line discussion, but most results will be incorporated in the document for review 15:11:09 <TomDN> pgroth: By when would this be reviewed? 15:11:37 <TomDN> jcheney: goal is to get release LC on august 2nd 15:11:48 <TomDN> s/get/vote on 15:12:10 <TomDN> luc: reviews would be due by next Friday (July 27th) 15:12:42 <TomDN> jcheney: hopefully minor things after review can be fixed by august 2nd 15:13:07 <TomDN> ... Hopefully no problems that are too big arise 15:13:10 <Luc> could we ask GK to do it? 15:13:14 <smiles> I will 15:13:16 <stain> I will 15:13:37 <christine> Not sure I am suitably technically qualified to do a review. 15:13:55 <Dong> Dong has joined #prov 15:14:00 <Luc> q+ 15:14:06 <stain> @christine - why not give it a go - that might be a good position to review from as well? 15:14:57 <pgroth> ack Luc 15:15:00 <tlebo> tlebo has joined #prov 15:15:13 <TomDN> luc: I'm a bit concerned about the timetable. We will have to discuss off-line that it's possible. 15:15:19 <pgroth> reviewers - simon, stain, paul for prov-constraints 15:15:27 <Dong> Zakim, who is on the phone? 15:15:27 <Zakim> On the phone I see TomDN (muted), ??P2, Luc, ??P11, stain, ??P27, ??P30, dgarijo, jcheney?, ??P38, +238055aabb 15:15:28 <pgroth> q? 15:15:32 <Zakim> +tlebo 15:15:45 <TomDN> pgroth: thanks to all who are working on it 15:15:45 <pgroth> Topic: Draft of Dublin Core Mappings <pgroth> Summary: Daniel is working on putting the mappings in W3C Note style is hopeful to have this done by next week. Daniel will make this available as an Editor's draft. A more formal review of the document for release as a working draft will be done in September. 15:16:24 <TomDN> dgarijo: I'm working on it, will deliver it in the next days 15:17:02 <TomDN> ... By beginning of next week. I'd like some people to review it then 15:17:56 <TomDN> pgroth: It would be nice to have it as a working draft (note) before august, but might not be possible 15:18:16 <TomDN> dgarijo: Should be no problem, since I am working on it alone 15:18:42 <pgroth> q? 15:18:59 <Luc> q+ 15:19:00 <TomDN> pgroth: We need to get it into W3C format, include a link in the working draft list, and then get people's reviews/comments on it 15:19:09 <TomDN> ... Comments on this? 15:19:11 <pgroth> ack Luc 15:19:56 <pgroth> plan is to have an editor's draft early next week 15:20:00 <TomDN> Luc: Sounds good. If we get a document ready for internal release by early September, that's good. 15:20:12 <pgroth> a formal review process in sept 15:20:45 <TomDN> pgroth: We have a number of other working drafts 15:21:22 <stain> I would want to talk about Dictionary draft afterwards to figure out the who/when bit 15:21:24 <TomDN> ... First: Working draft XML 15:21:34 <TomDN> ... Has this team been in contact with Luc? 15:21:46 <pgroth> Topic: XML Schema <pgroth> Summary: From a note in the agenda, Hook, Stephan and Curt will be reviewing the current version of the xml schema July 20. Luc will get in touch with them to see what they aim to do. He will also make the xml schema available and request comments. 15:21:58 <TomDN> Luc: Stephan has been in touch to ask for draft XML schema. I don't know what the next step is. 15:22:27 <TomDN> pgroth: Let's talk about this next week, hopefully they will be on the call then. 15:22:28 <stain> feedback on what.. where is it? 15:22:56 <TomDN> Luc: Maybe also ask for feedback on the draft XML schema by then as well 15:23:09 <TomDN> ... We will put it on the wiki 15:23:09 <pgroth> q? 15:23:24 <pgroth> Topic: Dictionary <pgroth> Summary: A rough editor's draft of the Dictionary Note has been made. Stian will be editing the Note and working on it at the end of August/beginning of September. Paolo, Tim agreed to help. 15:23:55 <stain> zakim, who is noisy? 15:24:01 <TomDN> pgroth: We agreed to put dictionaries into a separate note 15:24:03 <stain> http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/prov/raw-file/default/model/prov-dictionary.html 15:24:08 <Zakim> stain, listening for 12 seconds I heard sound from the following: ??P27 (83%) 15:24:15 <TomDN> ... Who's working on it, and what's the timeline? 15:24:51 <TomDN> (sorry, who is speaking?) 15:25:01 <TomDN> thanks 15:25:14 <tlebo> Stian is speaking 15:25:25 <tlebo> stain ? 15:25:42 <TomDN> stain: I volunteered to be editor on this, but nothing has really lifted off yet 15:25:56 <TomDN> ... I would have time in august, and could use some people to help on this. 15:26:10 <pgroth> q? 15:26:22 <TomDN> pgroth: Sounds good. Having something in mid September would be ideal. 15:26:23 <tlebo> sounds good 15:26:23 <stain> Zakim, who is on the phone? 15:26:23 <Zakim> On the phone I see TomDN (muted), ??P2, Luc, ??P11, stain, ??P27, ??P30, dgarijo, jcheney?, ??P38, +238055aabb, tlebo 15:26:36 <Paolo> I would like to help 15:26:37 <stain> Right - I wondered who could volunteer.. 15:26:50 <Luc> happy to review 15:26:54 <tlebo> I'm on it :-/ 15:26:59 <TomDN> pgroth: any volunteers to help? 15:27:08 <stain> sounds good 15:27:11 <TomDN> ... thanks Paolo, Luc, Tim 15:27:31 <pgroth> Topic: Timetable <pgroth> Summary: For the month of August volunteers were signed up for handling incoming public comments on the last call releases. 15:27:43 <pgroth> http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/Tracking_Public_Comments 15:28:07 <TomDN> pgroth: We need someone coordinating incoming public comments 15:28:19 <TomDN> ... Please sign up through this link 15:28:51 <smiles> Yes 15:28:53 <stain> yes 15:28:56 <dgarijo> Me too 15:29:00 <smiles> OK 15:29:02 <TomDN> ... It's 1 week/person. Just keeping track of emails and providing replies 15:29:41 <smiles> If needs be, I can do that too 15:29:51 <TomDN> I can do 6-12 15:29:57 <TomDN> (needed to check agenda) 15:29:58 <dgarijo> I'm all august available 15:30:05 <dgarijo> ok 15:30:16 <tlebo> (I already took Aug 20 - Aug 26) 15:30:32 <Luc> have got to go, bye bye 15:30:33 <stain> I can do 26th- 15:30:39 <Zakim> -Luc 15:31:00 <TomDN> pgroth: good, that covers most of august for public comments, thanks. 15:31:26 <pgroth> Topic: Prov Namespace <pgroth> Summary: The group adopted a resolution on an approach for handling what owl gets returned on dereferencing the provenance namespace. 15:32:00 <TomDN> pgroth: What do we do with dereferencability, especially if you have multiple nodes 15:32:15 <pgroth> http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/ProvNamespaceManagement 15:32:27 <TomDN> pgroth: This documents the various approaches 15:32:35 <TomDN> ... We need to settle on one. 15:33:20 <TomDN> pgroth: Solution 1: Merge all owl files into one namespace owl 15:33:34 <TomDN> ... Here the idea is that each note would maintain a separate owl file. 15:33:45 <TomDN> ... Solution 2.1 Use owl:import, but return only PROV-O 15:33:58 <TomDN> ... This hybrid solution is a single OWL file with the content of ProvenanceOntology.owl (PROV-O) - but with the additional owl:imports for the modules. It will include provenance to the OWL of the official REC that it is derived from. 15:34:24 <TomDN> ... There were some modifications to this, which lead to Solution 2.2 Use owl:import and return full merge of PROV-O and all Notes 15:34:52 <TomDN> ... and lastly: Solution 3 Define all terms in a single OWL file 15:35:17 <TomDN> ... Terms that are not formally part of PROV-O would be described using just annotation properties (rdfs:label, rdfs:comment), so they don't show up in Ontology processing tools, but are still present for documentary purposes when the namespace is dereferenced. 15:35:20 <pgroth> q? 15:35:30 <TomDN> pgroth: So which do you guys think is best? 15:35:44 <tlebo> +1 to the one I suggested :-) http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/ProvNamespaceManagement#Solution_2.2_Use_owl:import_and_return_full_merge_of_PROV-O_and_all_Notes 15:36:01 <stain> In preference: 2.2, 2.1, 2, 3, 1 15:36:35 <TomDN> pgroth: I would be inclined to do 2.2 as well, which is basically the concatenation of everything 15:36:41 <dgarijo> I like 2.1 better, in case you don't want to handle everything at once. 15:36:47 <TomDN> ... Are there any objections to this? 15:36:50 <stain> you are just restating what is true - if you saved that file again from protege the merged things should disappear as they are implied by the import 15:37:06 <pgroth> q? 15:37:08 <tlebo> @dgarijo but what makes provo so special? 15:37:43 <stain> @dgarijo, if you don't want to, then import the version IRI of PROV-O (or whatever) instead 15:37:48 <Dong> I prefer to see all the terms defined by the WG 15:37:59 <dgarijo> @stian, tim:I see. 15:38:16 <pgroth> for the owl file that comes back from the prov namespace - (solution 2.2. ) Use owl:import and return full merge of PROV-O and all Notes 15:38:28 <pgroth> proposed: for the owl file that comes back from the prov namespace - (solution 2.2. ) Use owl:import and return full merge of PROV-O and all Notes 15:38:34 <smiles> +0.5 (fine as far as I understand, but not my expertise) 15:38:35 <tlebo> @stain right to @dgarijo , just grab the owl:imports and take those that you want (ignore everything else that comes back). 15:38:42 <stain> +1 15:38:43 <TomDN> +1 15:38:45 <dgarijo> +1 15:38:50 <Dong> +1 15:38:54 <tlebo> +1 15:39:04 <stain> if it does not actually work we can change it, right? This is not part of a REC 15:39:20 <TomDN> pgroth: Indeed 15:39:27 <pgroth> accepted: for the owl file that comes back from the prov namespace - (solution 2.2. ) Use owl:import and return full merge of PROV-O and all Notes 15:39:42 <stain> I'm sure Tim has some tricks up his sleeve for that 15:39:54 <TomDN> pgroth: Tim, do you have anything laying around to do this? 15:40:20 <TomDN> tlebo: I'll look in my box of owl-magic tricks 15:40:42 <TomDN> ... (yes, I will look into it) 15:40:48 <stain> here's one implementation: https://github.com/wf4ever/taverna-prov - it would not cover a big % as of today <pgroth> Topic: Etc <pgroth> Summary: A discussion on exit criteria was delayed to next week. The group was asked to think about their implementations. In addition, Tim asked about the process of editing after Last Call. Paul agreed to check on the process. 15:41:01 <pgroth> http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/ProvCRExitCriteria 15:41:15 <TomDN> pgroth: If you are thinking about implementations of PROV, this is a good time to start talking about them 15:41:17 <tlebo> @stain add it to http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/ProvImplementations 15:41:17 <Dong> @pgroth, do we have a timetable for the implementation todos? 15:41:45 <TomDN> ... Please take a look at the exit criteria, and see if you can implement (some of) them 15:42:02 <TomDN> ... Implementation period will be 4-6 weeks 15:42:23 <pgroth> q? 15:42:30 <TomDN> ... But we'd like to start way before that, and definitely think about the report as well 15:42:47 <tlebo> q+ 15:43:12 <jcheney> q+ 15:43:24 <TomDN> tlebo: Now that stuff is released for LC, how do we deal with change management? 15:43:37 <TomDN> pgroth: Same as always, just create a new editor's draft 15:44:15 <TomDN> ... but do be careful about technical changes (since this is LC), but we can still make editorial changes. 15:44:26 <tlebo> e.g. http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/track/issues/456 ? 15:44:56 <stain> @dgarijo would the PROV mapping for roevo and wfprov in wf4ever count for application page? Will we formalize those into the OWLs? 15:45:00 <TomDN> tlebo: I have a request to change the domain. Is this too much change, or not? 15:45:18 <TomDN> pgroth: I'll email sandro to make sure we don't make mistakes 15:45:32 <pgroth> ack tlebo 15:45:59 <TomDN> jcheney: Will Tim review the constraints as well? 15:46:05 <TomDN> tlebo: Absolutely 15:46:36 <pgroth> q? 15:46:39 <pgroth> ack jcheney 15:46:48 <tlebo> bye bye 15:46:51 <Zakim> -dgarijo 15:46:52 <Zakim> -tlebo 15:46:53 <Zakim> -??P11 15:46:53 <Zakim> -??P30 15:46:55 <TomDN> bye 15:47:01 <Zakim> -??P2 15:47:01 <Zakim> -??P27 15:47:03 <TomDN> zakim, unmute me 15:47:03 <Zakim> TomDN should no longer be muted 15:47:05 <Zakim> -??P38 15:47:10 <stain> bye 15:47:13 <Zakim> -TomDN 15:47:14 <Zakim> -stain 15:47:25 <pgroth> rrsagent, set log public 15:47:30 <pgroth> rrsagent, draft minutes 15:47:30 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/07/19-prov-minutes.html pgroth 15:47:36 <pgroth> trackbot, end telcon 15:47:36 <trackbot> Zakim, list attendees 15:47:36 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been TomDN, Luc, stain, +44.131.467.aaaa, dgarijo, +238055aabb, tlebo 15:47:44 <trackbot> RRSAgent, please draft minutes 15:47:44 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/07/19-prov-minutes.html trackbot 15:47:45 <trackbot> RRSAgent, bye 15:47:45 <RRSAgent> I see no action items # SPECIAL MARKER FOR CHATSYNC. 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