Chatlog 2012-06-28

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14:54:47 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #prov
14:54:47 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/06/28-prov-irc
14:54:49 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
14:54:49 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #prov
14:54:51 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 
14:54:51 <Zakim> I don't understand 'this will be', trackbot
14:54:52 <trackbot> Meeting: Provenance Working Group Teleconference
14:54:52 <trackbot> Date: 28 June 2012
14:55:01 <Luc> Zakim, this will be PROV 
14:55:02 <Zakim> ok, Luc; I see SW_(PROV)11:00AM scheduled to start in 5 minutes
14:56:53 <CraigTrim> CraigTrim has joined #prov
14:57:26 <pgroth> pgroth has joined #prov
14:58:21 <pgroth> trackbot, start telcon
14:58:24 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
14:58:26 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 
14:58:26 <Zakim> I don't understand 'this will be', trackbot
14:58:27 <trackbot> Meeting: Provenance Working Group Teleconference
14:58:27 <trackbot> Date: 28 June 2012
14:58:29 <pgroth> Zakim, this will be PROV
14:58:29 <Zakim> ok, pgroth; I see SW_(PROV)11:00AM scheduled to start in 2 minutes
14:58:34 <Zakim> SW_(PROV)11:00AM has now started
14:58:41 <Zakim> +Mike_Wald
14:58:42 <pgroth> Agenda: http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/Meetings:Telecon2012.06.28
14:58:56 <pgroth> Chair: Paul Groth
14:59:02 <pgroth> Scribe: Daniel Garijo
14:59:27 <Luc> zakim, Mike_Wald is me
14:59:27 <Zakim> +Luc; got it
14:59:33 <khalidBelhajjame> khalidBelhajjame has joined #prov
14:59:41 <Zakim> +??P9
14:59:41 <Luc> zakim, who is here?
14:59:43 <Zakim> On the phone I see Luc, ??P9
14:59:43 <Zakim> On IRC I see khalidBelhajjame, pgroth, CraigTrim, Zakim, RRSAgent, Luc, MacTed, ivan, sandro, trackbot, stain
14:59:49 <pgroth> Zakim, ??P9 is me
14:59:50 <Zakim> +pgroth; got it
15:00:03 <jun> jun has joined #prov
15:00:04 <dgarijo> dgarijo has joined #prov
15:00:27 <Zakim> +??P24
15:00:29 <pgroth> Regrets: Timothy Lebo, Paolo Missier, Simon Miles, Curt Tilmes, Stephan Zednik, Tom De Nies, Graham Klyne
15:00:32 <jun> zakim, ??P24 is me
15:00:36 <satya> satya has joined #prov
15:00:39 <Zakim> +jun; got it
15:00:41 <pgroth> rrsagent, make logs public
15:00:45 <Zakim> +??P30
15:00:47 <Zakim> +??P28
15:00:54 <khalidBelhajjame> zakim, ??P30 is me
15:00:55 <Zakim> +khalidBelhajjame; got it
15:01:03 <dgarijo> Zakim, ??P24 is me
15:01:12 <Zakim> I already had ??P24 as jun, dgarijo
15:01:31 <Zakim> +Satya_Sahoo
15:01:31 <dgarijo> Zakim, ??P28 is me
15:01:33 <Zakim> -Satya_Sahoo
15:01:38 <Zakim> +dgarijo; got it
15:01:46 <Zakim> +Satya_Sahoo
15:02:37 <jcheney> jcheney has joined #prov
15:03:33 <Zakim> +??P41
15:03:46 <stephenc> stephenc has joined #prov
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15:05:28 <pgroth> Topic: Admin
<pgroth> Summary: F2F3 minutes will be out next week. The action items were gone through. 
15:05:33 <dgarijo> yes
15:06:20 <dgarijo> Luc: I wanted to get DM out of the way this weekend, but let's discuss that online
15:06:25 <dgarijo> pgroth: actions
15:06:57 <dgarijo> ... resolution around collections (Done) Ivan took a look around rdf datatypes . Paul still has to do his action.
15:07:08 <dgarijo> ... Daniel has talked about a note about dc
15:07:12 <dgarijo> ... myme types
15:07:21 <dgarijo> ... reviews for paolo
15:07:25 <dgarijo> ... (to be done)
15:07:37 <dgarijo> ... started exit criteria. Will give an update
15:07:54 <dgarijo> ... notion of compliance with w3c. This needs to be smmarized.
15:08:30 <dgarijo> ... still haven't made the ***? available on the prov page
15:08:57 <dgarijo> ... I will marked as done the issues that have been done after the call
15:08:59 <pgroth> q?
15:09:12 <SamCoppens> SamCoppens has joined #prov
15:09:19 <dgarijo> s /marked/mark
15:09:25 <pgroth> Topic: F2F3
<pgroth> Summary: A brief summary of the decisions taken at F2F3 was given.
15:09:49 <SamCoppens> SamCoppens has left #prov
15:09:57 <dgarijo> pgroth: recap on the meeting for those who weren't there. It was a good meeting. Had resolutions on most of open issues
15:10:48 <dgarijo> ... I encourage to loook at the different resolutions. We need a new timetable. We are essentially a month behind our previous timetable. We'll ask for an extension.
15:10:55 <dgarijo> ... there is now an implementation team
15:11:12 <dgarijo> ... in order to produce a report in interoperable implementations
15:11:21 <pgroth> q?
15:11:25 <dgarijo> ... we'll try to summarize this for next week
15:11:36 <pgroth> q?
15:11:45 <pgroth> Topic: Reminders
<pgroth> Summary: The group was reminded to provide any feature requests on the PAQ by the end of next week. The group was reminded about two new wiki pages for implementations of PROV and outreach information. The group was asked to contribute to them.  In addition, the group was asked to mark ISWC 2012 as the time period for the next F2F meeting. 
15:12:19 <dgarijo> pgroth: for the PAQ we are keen on getting all the issues and request for features
15:12:48 <dgarijo> ... we have met the deadline, but let's make it the middle of next week for issues and future requests
15:12:50 <pgroth> q?
15:13:15 <pgroth> http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/ProvImplementations
15:13:45 <dgarijo> ... I want to highlight 2 new wikipages: 1) prov implementations page: page to keep track of the implementations.
15:14:09 <dgarijo> ... by implementations we mean extensions and applications.
15:14:22 <dgarijo> ... if you are developing something, please add the link there
15:14:23 <pgroth> q?
15:14:48 <pgroth> http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/OutreachInformation
15:15:30 <dgarijo> pgroth: 2) ourtreach Info page. All the blog post and tutorials that have been done. If you have done anything then this will be a good place to document it.
15:15:41 <dgarijo> ... feel free to add anything
15:15:43 <pgroth> q?
15:15:58 <dgarijo> s /ourtreach/outreach
15:16:17 <dgarijo> pgroth: the slides will be there also.
15:16:32 <dgarijo> ... finally, f2f4 will be collocated with ISWC
15:16:43 <dgarijo> ... we will be adding a poll
15:16:51 <pgroth> q?
15:17:07 <pgroth> Topic: Updates
<pgroth> Summary: An update on the dublin core mappings was given. The goal is to address all comments by next week and produce a Note version of the July 12. In addition, Luc gave an overview of how the technical issues remaining on PROV-DM were addressed by the editors according to the resolutions of F2F3.
15:17:08 <dgarijo> ... updates
15:17:25 <dgarijo> ... DC and DM. Will skip on prov o
15:17:49 <pgroth> dgarijo: talked to kai yesterday
15:17:55 <khalidBelhajjame> dgarijo: agreed with Kai to resolve the issues identified in the reviews
15:18:01 <pgroth> thanks khalidBelhajjame 
15:18:12 <khalidBelhajjame> ... produces something by July
15:18:39 <khalidBelhajjame> ... we will ask for reviews again once a note is ready for that
15:19:07 <pgroth> q?
15:19:10 <MacTed> Zakim, code?
15:19:10 <Zakim> the conference code is 7768 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), MacTed
15:19:17 <Zakim> +OpenLink_Software
15:19:26 <MacTed> Zakim, OpenLink_Software is temporarily me
15:19:26 <Zakim> +MacTed; got it
15:19:28 <MacTed> Zakim, mute me
15:19:28 <Zakim> MacTed should now be muted
15:19:29 <khalidBelhajjame> dgarijo: we wanted to have the note early to have time to address the reviews that we anticipate
15:19:38 <pgroth> q?
15:19:51 <dgarijo> @khalid thanks for scribing, I will continue.
15:20:09 <dgarijo> Luc: update on DM.
15:20:19 <dgarijo> ... working on the resolutions made on the f2f
15:20:29 <dgarijo> ... now they are on the agenda
15:20:54 <dgarijo> ... dictionary : we remove dictionary, which will be moved to a note.
15:21:01 <dgarijo> ... along with most of its relations
15:21:13 <dgarijo> ... collections/membership will be kept
15:21:31 <dgarijo> ... discussion on tracedTo
15:21:58 <dgarijo> ... led to a resolution (unexpected) where it is replaced by influenced. (Not transitive)
15:22:17 <dgarijo> ... component 3 is being renamed including influence as well.
15:22:38 <dgarijo> ... had discussions about which datatypes & version of RDF to follow.
15:22:50 <dgarijo> ... adopted some of the text in OWL 2
15:23:00 <dgarijo> ... problem with xsd schema changing
15:23:18 <dgarijo> ... we will have to be conformant to version 1.1 of RDF
15:23:33 <dgarijo> ... Ivan was happy with that.
15:23:39 <dgarijo> ... people could review that
15:23:50 <dgarijo> ... hadLocation was debated as well.
15:24:14 <Luc> http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/prov/raw-file/default/model/prov-dm.html#term-mention
15:24:27 <dgarijo> ... discussion on contextualization (continued in the mailing list). Resolved to rename contextualization. Also the notion of mentions (a bundle mentions an entity).
15:24:54 <pgroth> q?
15:24:59 <dgarijo> ... this will be marked as at risk, so we will be able to drop it if there are problems when implementing this.
15:25:30 <pgroth> Topic: Contextualization
<pgroth> Summary: Luc presented the renaming of contextualization to mention as asked for by the resolution from the F2F. The term remains marked as a feature at risk as per the resolution. The chairs will look into whether there should be a rational given for marking the feature at risk. James and Satya indicated that they were ok with this renaming and marking as a feature at risk 
15:25:57 <dgarijo> ... we had this resolution, to rename contextualization. Marked as risk
15:26:00 <dgarijo> ... long debate
15:26:09 <dgarijo> ... seems to be coming to some resolution
15:26:18 <dgarijo> ... do people have comments/questions?
15:26:35 <dgarijo> ... in particular the proposal to rename it to mention
15:26:36 <pgroth> q?
15:26:51 <jcheney> think we need to hear from graham, who's not here
15:27:02 <jcheney> i'm happy with renaming to mention & marking at risk
15:27:34 <dgarijo> ... in the mailing list Graham seems to be ok with renaming it and marking it as risk
15:27:59 <Luc> q+
15:28:39 <satya> I am also fine with including it (but not overloading specialization) and marking it as risk
15:29:10 <dgarijo> Luc: we need to indicate explicitly the features at risk and be specific about why it is at risk. It remains to be done. I don't know how it should be written, so it would be good to have some input.
15:29:46 <dgarijo> ... we need to explain to the readers what to look at and what the issue is.
15:30:40 <dgarijo> pgroth: my feeling is that having a long description would confuse the reader. By doing that you bias the user
15:30:43 <pgroth> q?
15:30:55 <pgroth> ack Luc
15:30:56 <pgroth> q?
15:31:18 <MacTed> Zakim, unmute me
15:31:18 <Zakim> MacTed should no longer be muted
15:31:39 <dgarijo> MacTed: not sure how this can replace context
15:31:40 <pgroth> q?
15:31:49 <pgroth> Topic: Reviewers
<pgroth> Summary: The group was asked to volunteer for reviewing prov-dm and the prov-o ontology for last call. The reviews would be done by next Friday July 6, 2012 for a vote on Last Call July 12, 2012. The review for prov-o would be for the final ontology as the narrative is still being worked on.  For prov-dm, Khalid, Daniel and James agreed to review. For prov-o, Luc and Paul agreed to review. Also, reminders were given for other outstanding reviews on the prov-primer and prov-n. The chairs expressed strong concern that there were not enough reviewers given that prov-dm and prov-o are Last Call documents. They will email the group reminding them of the importance of Last Call and reviewing. 
15:32:03 <MacTed> s/this can replace context/"mention" can replace "context"/
15:32:16 <dgarijo> pgroth: We agreed at the f2f that DM would try to address all the issues by ????
15:32:27 <MacTed> Zakim, unmute me
15:32:27 <Zakim> MacTed was not muted, MacTed
15:32:37 <pgroth> q?
15:32:42 <dgarijo> ... PROV-O : Tim said that the ontology would be ready for tomorrow
15:32:54 <MacTed> Zakim, mute me
15:32:54 <Zakim> MacTed should now be muted
15:32:55 <dgarijo> ... we will start 1 week review perios
15:32:58 <dgarijo> period
15:33:10 <dgarijo> ... and the we will go for LC
15:33:41 <dgarijo> ... the goal would be to get all reviews for next friday
15:33:56 <pgroth> q?
15:34:14 <dgarijo> ... questions about the timetable?
15:34:29 <Luc> q+
15:34:32 <dgarijo> ... who will be willing to review DM?
15:34:48 <dgarijo> Luc: are we reviewing the changes?
15:34:54 <Luc> ack luc
15:35:08 <khalidBelhajjame> I will review the changes in the DM
15:35:10 <dgarijo> ... paul: review of the changes, but if you want to review the entire doc, it would be ok
15:35:32 <dgarijo> Luc: it would be good if Khalid and Daniel review the changes
15:35:34 <dgarijo> ok
15:35:38 <jcheney> I will try to review DM, needed to update constraints anyway.
15:35:38 <dgarijo> I'll review them
15:35:54 <dgarijo> paul: anyone else?
15:36:18 <pgroth> reviewers - james, khalidBelhajjame, daniel
15:36:24 <Luc> q+
15:36:36 <dgarijo> ... as a reminder, this is the document for LC. So please read it.
15:36:47 <dgarijo> Luc: I am concerned by the lack of reviewers
15:36:53 <dgarijo> ... we will have a vote in 2 weeks
15:37:12 <dgarijo> ... there is no point if there are no reviewers.
15:37:25 <khalidBelhajjame> Many people are not on the telecon, so it may be a good idea to send an email to the mailing list
15:37:29 <satya> q+
15:37:40 <dgarijo> ... graham has been critical with some constructs I'd like his feedback. Satya and MacTed as well.
15:37:57 <pgroth> ack Luc
15:38:15 <dgarijo> Satya: I was not formally volunteer, but I plan to read the doc
15:38:53 <dgarijo> pgroth: if you could look at the things you weren't agreeing on.
15:39:10 <dgarijo> Satya: Yes
15:39:12 <pgroth> ack satya
15:39:13 <pgroth> q?
15:39:48 <Luc> q+
15:39:56 <pgroth> ack Luc
15:40:10 <dgarijo> paul: if someone doesn't read the document and votes against it will be considered a foul vote.
15:40:15 <Luc> ack luc
15:40:27 <dgarijo> luc: we'll send a reminder to the list
15:40:38 <dgarijo> pgroth: any more reviewers?
15:40:47 <dgarijo> ... PROV-O ontology
15:40:58 <dgarijo> ... stable and aligned to DM
15:41:28 <dgarijo> ... difficult to fix the narrative since DM is being changed, but we'll release the ontology. Narrative will come later
15:41:57 <dgarijo> ... questions?
15:42:05 <pgroth> q?
15:42:14 <dgarijo> I think it makes a lot of sense.
15:42:23 <satya> @Paul, we agreed to this in the call on Monday
15:43:03 <Luc> +1
15:43:07 <dgarijo> pgroth: reviewers for prov-o?
15:43:19 <Luc> +q
15:43:20 <dgarijo> ... Paul, Luc, 
15:43:26 <jcheney> will ead, may not be able to fully review
15:43:32 <jcheney> will read, may not be able to fully review
15:43:39 <dgarijo> Luc: same comment as before. We need reviewers
15:43:45 <pgroth> reviewers-  Paul, Luc
15:43:49 <Luc> ack 
15:43:50 <dgarijo> ... Will send an email
15:44:02 <Luc> ack luc
15:44:36 <satya> a suggestion - it will be helpful if the persons who have signed up for applications/implementation review PROV-O specifically
15:44:40 <dgarijo> pgroth: it is very important to get feedback
15:44:49 <pgroth> q?
15:44:54 <Luc> q+
15:44:58 <MacTed> I cannot guaranteed full review of all docs, but best effort will be made.  
15:44:58 <MacTed> please provide URIs for each and every doc for which reviews are requested.  there are far too many to keep track of.
15:44:58 <MacTed> if there's an intended "these depend on those" track, then prioritized list will be helpful.
15:45:27 <dgarijo> Luc: there are more docs. ProvN (under review).
15:45:37 <dgarijo> ... still not any feedback received
15:46:03 <jcheney> I read the last version before f2f3.  No objections.  Will read revised version more carefully.
15:46:17 <dgarijo> ... please send the feedback. I'll send an email as a reminder
15:46:34 <MacTed> Zakim, unmute me
15:46:34 <Zakim> MacTed should no longer be muted
15:46:58 <Luc> @jcheney, thanks, could you just email this for the record. There was an issue for feedback.
15:47:10 <dgarijo> Macted: It will be very helpful if you could provide URIs for each doc+ prioritization.
15:47:12 <jcheney> http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/WorkingDrafts
15:47:25 <pgroth> q?
15:47:29 <jcheney> has all the links but there is some cruft.
15:47:58 <dgarijo> pgroth: I will send an email with the specific URIs
15:48:05 <MacTed> Zakim, mute me
15:48:05 <Zakim> MacTed should now be muted
15:48:06 <pgroth> ack luc
15:48:18 <khalidBelhajjame> :-)
15:48:20 <satya> :)
15:48:21 <khalidBelhajjame> bye
15:48:26 <Zakim> -khalidBelhajjame
15:48:27 <Zakim> -pgroth
15:48:29 <Zakim> -Satya_Sahoo
15:48:29 <Zakim> -Luc
15:48:30 <Zakim> -dgarijo
15:48:30 <Zakim> -jun
15:48:32 <Zakim> -MacTed
15:48:41 <pgroth> rrsagent, set log public
15:48:45 <Zakim> -??P44
15:48:50 <pgroth> rrsagent, draft minutes
15:48:50 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/06/28-prov-minutes.html pgroth
15:48:52 <MacTed> s/prioritization/prioritization and dependency order/
15:48:58 <pgroth> trackbot, end telcon
15:48:58 <trackbot> Zakim, list attendees
15:48:58 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been Luc, pgroth, jun, khalidBelhajjame, Satya_Sahoo, dgarijo, MacTed
15:49:06 <trackbot> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
15:49:06 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/06/28-prov-minutes.html trackbot
15:49:07 <trackbot> RRSAgent, bye
15:49:07 <RRSAgent> I see no action items
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