Chatlog 2012-04-05

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15:01:47 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #prov
15:01:47 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/04/05-prov-irc
15:01:49 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
15:01:51 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 
15:01:52 <trackbot> Meeting: Provenance Working Group Teleconference
15:01:52 <trackbot> Date: 05 April 2012
15:01:58 <pgroth> Zakim, this will be PROV
15:02:12 <pgroth> Agenda: http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/Meetings:Telecon2012.04.05
15:02:20 <pgroth> Chair: Paul Groth
15:02:24 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #prov
15:02:30 <pgroth> Regrets: Luc Moreau, Timothy Lebo, Daniel Garijo
15:02:37 <MacTed> Zakim, this is PROV
15:02:39 <pgroth> rrsagent, make logs public
15:02:44 <MacTed> Zakim, who's here?
15:03:01 <kai> kai has joined #prov
15:03:16 <jcheney> jcheney has joined #prov
15:03:17 <Zakim> ok, MacTed; that matches SW_(PROV)11:00AM
15:03:25 <Zakim> On the phone I see ??P22, Curt_Tilmes, ??P32, Satya_Sahoo, ??P67, +329331aaaa, [OpenLink], ??P43
15:03:34 <pgroth> Zakim, ??P43 is me
15:03:36 <MacTed> Zakim, [OpenLink] is temporarily me
15:03:54 <Zakim> +??P1
15:03:57 <jun> I am do it
15:04:00 <Zakim> On IRC I see jcheney, kai, Zakim, RRSAgent, jun, stephenc, pgroth, satya, Tom_De_Nies, smiles, SamCoppens, Curt, Paolo, MacTed, stain, trackbot, sandro
15:04:08 <Zakim> +pgroth; got it
15:04:10 <Zakim> +MacTed; got it
15:04:16 <pgroth> Topic: Admin
15:04:36 <pgroth> Minutes of the March 29 2012 Telecon
15:04:42 <pgroth> http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/meeting/2012-03-29
15:04:50 <Curt> +1
15:04:53 <Tom_De_Nies> +1
15:05:01 <jun> scribe: jun
15:05:07 <MacTed> Zakim, mute me
15:05:09 <jcheney> +1
15:05:16 <SamCoppens> +1
15:05:33 <jun> +1
15:05:43 <Zakim> +??P13
15:05:48 <pgroth> Approved Minutes of the March 29 2012 Telecon
15:05:54 <satya> +1
15:05:57 <Paolo> +1
15:06:07 <Zakim> + +44.789.470.aabb
15:06:07 <jcheney> zakim, ??p13 is me
15:06:11 <Zakim> +??P10
15:06:14 <kai> Zakim, +??P13 is probably me.
15:06:19 <pgroth> Topic: PROV-DM
<pgroth> Summary: The document is out for review. Reviewers are all making progress and will have reviews in by next week.
15:06:24 <kai> Zakim, ??P13 is probably me.
15:06:47 <jun> Paolo: DM constraints is out for review
15:06:59 <Zakim> MacTed should now be muted
15:07:15 <Zakim> +Sandro
15:07:30 <jun> ... some feedback came back, all associated with issues
15:07:49 <SamCoppens> zakim, +329331aaaa is SamCoppens
15:07:58 <Zakim> +jcheney; got it
15:08:05 <jun> ... don't see any blockers to the next draft
15:08:08 <pgroth> q?
15:08:10 <Zakim> sorry, kai, I do not understand your question
15:08:28 <Zakim> I already had ??P13 as jcheney, kai
15:08:37 <jun> Paul: check progress on the reviews
15:08:56 <jun> Khalid: no response, not on the call
15:09:07 <jun> Satya: would like to complete the review before giving feedback
15:09:23 <jun> Curt: working on it
15:09:23 <kai> Zakim, ??P1 is probably me.
15:09:31 <Zakim> +SamCoppens; got it
15:09:34 <jun> Jun: ongoing
15:09:58 <Tom_De_Nies> Zakim, Tom_De_Nies is with SamCoppens
15:10:02 <jun> Tim and Graham not on the call today
15:10:09 <jun> jcheney: ongoing
15:10:24 <jun> smiles: on prov-n. done that
15:10:26 <Zakim> +kai?; got it
15:10:33 <jun> Topic: PROV-O
<pgroth> Summary: Prov-o is out for review. Two reviews are in and two are still to be done.
15:11:01 <Zakim> +Tom_De_Nies; got it
15:11:05 <jun> Paul: essential prov-o is out for review :)
15:11:17 <jun> ... review progress
15:11:28 <MacTed> Zakim, unmute me
15:11:33 <jun> Luc done it. Paul ongoing. Simon done it. Sam, ongoing
15:11:42 <Zakim> MacTed should no longer be muted
15:11:53 <pgroth> q?
15:11:56 <jun> ... Mac Ted: ongoing
15:12:13 <jun> Topic:PROV-primer
<pgroth> Summary: The primer is out for review. One review is in. Two reviews are still out but being worked on
15:12:38 <jun> smiles: out for review, expect feedback from Curt and Christine. Paolo done already
15:12:43 <pgroth> q?
15:12:43 <jun> Curt: ongoing
15:12:53 <pgroth> Topic: PROV-AQ
<pgroth> Summary: The editors of prov-aq have released an editors draft that they believe is ready to go out as a public working draft. Potential reviewers were recruited (Curt, Sam, MacTed, and Paolo). The timeline for reviews will be set-up at next week's telecon.
15:12:54 <Paolo> I haven't attached my reiew to the issue, sorry
15:13:00 <Paolo> but it's out there...
15:13:06 <pgroth> http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/prov/raw-file/default/paq/prov-aq.html
15:13:15 <jun> Paul: went through many big changes last week
15:13:29 <jun> ... release an editor's draft. hopefully address all the issues in the tracker
15:14:02 <jun> ... use "resource" throughout in the doc. Editors think it's ready for review, for going into working draft
15:14:23 <pgroth> q?
15:14:26 <jun> ... we can come back next week for review
15:14:37 <pgroth> q?
15:15:05 <Curt> I'll try to review PAQ...
15:15:14 <SamCoppens> I can do it also
15:15:20 <Paolo> potentially me -- but a bit overloaded 
15:15:23 <Paolo> with other reviews atm
15:15:53 <pgroth> Potential Reviewers: Curt, SamCoppens, MacTed, Paolo
15:15:59 <pgroth> q?
15:16:07 <jun> Potential reviewers: Curt, Sam, and Paolo
15:16:11 <pgroth> Topic: Prov-sem
<pgroth> Summary: James is aligning the semantics as he does the review of prov-dm. He also sent prov-sem for review by an external reviewer. Paolo agreed to produce a wiki page summarizing changes in collections for James and link to it from the semantics wiki page.  There was a discussion around collections and their importance in prov-dm and how they should appear with respect to the rest of the model. This was based on reviewers feedback on the prov-o, which encouraged a deemphasis of collections. Whether or not this should be the case still is an outstanding issue and the group has yet to come to a decision. MacTed brought out the notion that there were other collection representations and the authors of collections should look at ensuring a comparison or at least identify why the spec needs something else. Paolo agreed to look at this.
15:16:14 <Paolo> q+
15:17:07 <jun> jcheney: aligned the doc with WD-3. will go ahead to align it with the latest WD soonish
15:17:37 <pgroth> q?
15:17:40 <pgroth> ack Paolo
15:18:22 <khalidbelhajjame> khalidbelhajjame has joined #prov
15:19:23 <jun> Paolo: add collections in the semantics doc?
15:19:26 <Zakim> +??P6
15:19:52 <pgroth> q?
15:20:38 <smiles> q+
15:20:57 <pgroth> q?
15:20:58 <jun> jcheney: will read through everything and think about it. would be helpful to have a summary about what's needed to be clarified
15:21:19 <jun> Paolo: I can put up a wiki page to summarize things
15:21:33 <jun> ... put a link on the formal semantics wiki page
15:21:33 <pgroth> ack smiles
15:21:39 <pgroth> q?
15:22:19 <pgroth> q+
15:22:27 <Paolo> q+
15:22:30 <jun> smiles: collection as a separate/lesser part of the DM model? where is this idea coming from?
15:23:16 <pgroth> ack pgroth
15:23:23 <pgroth> ack Paolo 
15:23:24 <jun> Paul: they add a level of complexity. and we don't want to scary people away by this and put a lesser emphasis on it
15:23:55 <jun> Paolo: this is really about introducing a new data structure. believe this is fundamental. 
15:24:38 <stainPhone> stainPhone has joined #prov
15:24:59 <pgroth> q+
15:25:07 <jun> .... things become more complicated than anticipated. took longer to reconcile. and left with less time to include collection properly in documents
15:25:08 <MacTed> Zakim, unmute me
15:25:08 <Zakim> MacTed was not muted, MacTed
15:25:14 <MacTed> q+
15:25:46 <jun> Paul: and we should take Luc's comments as his own comments, not final or for the group
15:25:53 <pgroth> ack pgroth 
15:26:23 <jun> Mac: we should try to avoid thinking about reinventing everything
15:26:40 <jun> ... collection is just another type of entity
15:27:12 <jun> ... we don't need to redefine what a collection is
15:27:36 <Paolo> q+
15:27:39 <jun> ... concerned that there might be re-definition of things or re-invention of things
15:27:42 <MacTed> ack me
15:27:44 <pgroth> ack MacTed 
15:27:47 <pgroth> ack Paolo 
15:27:52 <jcheney> http://code.google.com/p/collections-ontology/ ??
15:28:11 <jun> Paolo: pointers for specific places to draw knowledge for provenance for collections?
15:28:25 <MacTed> http://rdfs.org/sioc/spec/
15:28:56 <jun> @mac, I think the collections spec is a bit different from what sioc means
15:29:25 <jun> Mac: the sioc spec is an example
15:29:39 <pgroth> jun can you use MacTed not Mac
15:29:52 <pgroth> it's hard to process the minutes otherwise
15:29:55 <jun> Paolo: it's slightly different to describe evolution of collections
15:30:15 <jun> s/Mac/MacTed/
15:30:34 <pgroth> q?
15:30:38 <smiles> q+
15:30:46 <jun> Paolo: we should take this offline and will take a look at the sioc doc
15:30:47 <Curt> collections of provenance (out of scope -- use existing ways) != provenance of collections (we are trying to model a common way to represent that)
15:31:01 <pgroth> ack smiles
15:31:05 <jun> smiles: do we have reviewers for the semantics doc?
15:31:34 <jun> Paul: we are not yet ready for the semantics doc. it's not planned to be in sync with other docs
15:32:11 <pgroth> ack smiles
15:32:35 <jun> jcheney: plan to review everything to identify things to be updated for the semantics. rather to align semantics against a fixed document. people can sign up for reviews now though
15:32:48 <jun> Paul: semantics is a note. we are not as pressed for this as for other docs
15:33:09 <pgroth> q?
15:33:15 <jun> jcheney: I want to contribute to the reviews of other doc. and it should be fairly straightforward to update the semantics doc
15:33:40 <pgroth> Topic: Linked Data Platform
<pgroth> Summary: Paolo asked about the Linked Data Platform charter (http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/charter). Sandro gave a summary of it's aim. Paul emphasized that the prov-aq should be considered as a mechanism for that group to access provenance of resources.
15:34:16 <stainPhone> @Paolo, url..?
15:34:38 <jun> Paolo: feedback to this from the group?
15:35:24 <jcheney> is this it http://data.nature.com/
15:35:25 <jun> Sandro: the group was formed based on a critical mass
15:36:14 <pgroth> @jcheney http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/charter
15:36:30 <jcheney> aha I see it
15:36:30 <jun> ... provide a place for common mind people to talk together
15:36:37 <pgroth> +q
15:36:44 <jun> ... they are putting up documents up to describe what they did
15:36:59 <jun> .. not sure where provenance fits into this
15:37:18 <jun> Paolo: thanks for the response
15:37:35 <pgroth> ack pgroth
15:37:37 <pgroth> q?
15:37:38 <jun> Paul: PAQ should be very related to their work
15:37:48 <jun> Paul: AOB?
15:38:09 <Zakim> -Satya_Sahoo
15:38:11 <Zakim> -??P6
15:38:11 <Zakim> -??P22
15:38:13 <Zakim> -??P67
15:38:13 <Zakim> - +44.789.470.aabb
15:38:14 <Zakim> -Curt_Tilmes
15:38:14 <Zakim> -jcheney
15:38:15 <Zakim> -??P10
15:38:16 <Zakim> -MacTed
15:38:19 <Zakim> -Sandro
15:38:21 <Zakim> -SamCoppens
15:38:22 <Zakim> -pgroth
15:38:26 <Zakim> -??P32
15:38:28 <SamCoppens> SamCoppens has left #prov
15:38:44 <pgroth> rrsagent, set log public
15:38:49 <pgroth> rrsagent, draft minutes
15:38:49 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/04/05-prov-minutes.html pgroth
15:38:53 <pgroth> trackbot, end telcon
15:38:53 <trackbot> Zakim, list attendees
15:38:53 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been Curt_Tilmes, Satya_Sahoo, pgroth, MacTed, +44.789.470.aabb, Sandro, jcheney, SamCoppens, kai?, Tom_De_Nies
15:39:01 <trackbot> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
15:39:01 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/04/05-prov-minutes.html trackbot
15:39:02 <trackbot> RRSAgent, bye
15:39:02 <RRSAgent> I see no action items
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