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Chatlog 2011-05-05
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<sandro> Guest: Yolanda Gil <sandro> Guest: Jim McCusker <luc> Guest: Olaf Hartig <luc> Guest: Satya Sahoo <luc> Guest: Yogesh Simmhan <luc> Guest: James Frew <luc> Guest: Stephan Zednik <luc> Guest: Tim (rpi-lebo) Lebo <luc> Guest: Jorn Hees <luc> Guest: Khalid Belhajjame <luc> Guest: Lars G <luc> Guest: Edoardo (abdn_uk) Pignotti <luc> Guest: Lena X <luc> Guest: Paolo Missier <luc> Guest: Jeff Pan 14:46:29 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #prov 14:46:29 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/05/05-prov-irc 14:46:31 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world 14:46:31 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #prov 14:46:33 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 14:46:33 <Zakim> I don't understand 'this will be', trackbot 14:46:34 <trackbot> Meeting: Provenance Working Group Teleconference 14:46:34 <trackbot> Date: 05 May 2011 14:47:49 <luc> Zakim, this will be SW_PROV 14:47:49 <Zakim> I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled within the next hour, luc 14:48:04 <luc> Zakim, this will be PROV 14:48:04 <Zakim> ok, luc; I see SW_(PROV)11:00AM scheduled to start in 12 minutes 14:48:49 <luc> Agenda: http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/Meetings:Telecon2011.05.05 14:49:20 <luc> Chair: pgroth 14:49:25 <dgarijo> dgarijo has joined #prov 14:49:26 <pgroth> hmm, i can't get on the call 14:49:33 <pgroth> is anyone else dialed in? 14:49:41 <luc> Scribe: luc 14:49:45 <dgarijo> hi 14:49:47 <dgarijo> not yet 14:50:11 <Zakim> SW_(PROV)11:00AM has now started 14:50:13 <luc> rrsagent, make logs public 14:50:19 <Zakim> +??P9 14:50:39 <jorn> zakim, +??P9 is me 14:50:39 <Zakim> sorry, jorn, I do not recognize a party named '+??P9' 14:50:47 <Zakim> +??P0 14:50:53 <jorn> zakim, ??P9 is me 14:50:53 <Zakim> +jorn; got it 14:51:01 <pgroth> zakim, ??P0 is me 14:51:01 <Zakim> +pgroth; got it 14:53:26 <Zakim> + +44.238.059.aaaa 14:54:02 <luc> zakim, who is here? 14:54:02 <Zakim> On the phone I see jorn, pgroth, +44.238.059.aaaa 14:54:03 <Zakim> On IRC I see dgarijo, Zakim, RRSAgent, luc, pgroth, jorn, Luc_, sandro, trackbot 14:54:14 <iker> iker has joined #prov 14:54:35 <Zakim> +[IPcaller] 14:54:45 <luc> zakim, +44.238.059.aaaa is me 14:54:45 <Zakim> +luc; got it 14:55:01 <dgarijo> zakim, [IPcaller] is me 14:55:01 <Zakim> +dgarijo; got it 14:55:15 <Zakim> -jorn 14:55:28 <Zakim> +[IPcaller] 14:56:04 <pgroth> Zakim, who is loud? 14:56:04 <Zakim> I don't understand your question, pgroth. 14:56:34 <Zakim> +??P18 14:56:36 <Zakim> +??P17 14:56:39 <luc> zakim, who is making noise? 14:56:49 <Zakim> luc, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: pgroth (50%), [IPcaller] (87%), ??P17 (24%) 14:57:05 <GK> GK has joined #prov 14:57:13 <luc> zakim, agenda? 14:57:13 <Zakim> I see nothing on the agenda 14:57:42 <iker> zakim, who's here? 14:57:42 <Zakim> On the phone I see pgroth, luc, dgarijo, [IPcaller], ??P18, ??P17 14:57:43 <Zakim> On IRC I see GK, iker, dgarijo, Zakim, RRSAgent, luc, pgroth, jorn, Luc_, sandro, trackbot 14:57:49 <Zakim> + +1.915.603.aabb 14:57:55 <paolo_> paolo_ has joined #prov 14:57:55 <luc> Regrets: Helena Deus #14:57:55 <luc> Regrets: Simon Dobson, Simon Miles (no regrets for guests ) 14:58:20 <paulo> paulo has joined #prov 14:58:30 <GK> I think [IPCaller] may be me ... Graham Klyne #14:58:38 <pgroth> Regrets: Helena Deus 14:58:45 <paulo> q? 14:58:49 <satya> satya has joined #prov 14:58:57 <paolo_> zakim, who is on the phone? 14:58:57 <Zakim> On the phone I see pgroth, luc, dgarijo, [IPcaller], ??P18, ??P17, +1.915.603.aabb 14:59:28 <olaf> olaf has joined #prov 14:59:30 <dgarijo> zakim, [IPcaller] is GK 14:59:30 <Zakim> +GK; got it 14:59:39 <pgroth> zakim, who is on the phone? 14:59:39 <Zakim> On the phone I see pgroth, luc, dgarijo, GK, ??P18, ??P17, +1.915.603.aabb 15:00:06 <abdn_uk> abdn_uk has joined #prov 15:00:19 <paolo> zakim, ??P18 is me 15:00:20 <pgroth> zakim, +1.915.603.aabb is paulo 15:00:20 <Zakim> +paolo; got it 15:00:20 <Zakim> +paulo; got it 15:00:32 <pgroth> zakim, who is on the phone? 15:00:36 <Zakim> +SatyaSahoo 15:00:44 <zednik> zednik has joined #prov 15:00:45 <Zakim> On the phone I see pgroth, luc, dgarijo, GK, paolo, ??P17, paulo, SatyaSahoo 15:00:59 <paulo> zakim, +1.915.603.aabb is me 15:01:02 <Zakim> + +49.302.093.aacc 15:01:08 <Zakim> +??P33 15:01:13 <Zakim> sorry, paulo, I do not recognize a party named '+1.915.603.aabb' 15:01:14 <Zakim> + +1.509.375.aadd 15:01:18 <Zakim> +Jeff_Pan 15:01:20 <Zakim> +??P6 15:01:22 <Zakim> +??P11 15:01:24 <Zakim> +sandro 15:01:26 <Zakim> + +1.937.708.aaee 15:01:33 <olaf> zakim, aacc is me 15:01:33 <Zakim> +olaf; got it 15:01:41 <pgroth> zakim, who is on the phone? 15:01:41 <Zakim> On the phone I see pgroth, luc, dgarijo, GK, paolo, ??P17, paulo, SatyaSahoo, olaf, ??P33, +1.509.375.aadd, Jeff_Pan, ??P6, ??P11, sandro, +1.937.708.aaee 15:01:41 <jcheney> jcheney has joined #prov 15:01:45 <Zakim> -??P33 15:01:51 <Zakim> + +1.540.449.aaff 15:02:00 <jcheney> Zakim, who is here 15:02:00 <Zakim> jcheney, you need to end that query with '?' 15:02:02 <khalidbelhajjame> khalidbelhajjame has joined #prov 15:02:03 <jcheney> Zakim, who is here? 15:02:03 <Zakim> On the phone I see pgroth, luc, dgarijo, GK, paolo, ??P17, paulo, SatyaSahoo, olaf, +1.509.375.aadd, Jeff_Pan, ??P6, ??P11, sandro, +1.937.708.aaee, +1.540.449.aaff 15:02:06 <Zakim> On IRC I see khalidbelhajjame, jcheney, zednik, abdn_uk, olaf, satya, paulo, paolo, GK, iker, dgarijo, Zakim, RRSAgent, luc, pgroth, jorn, Luc_, sandro, trackbot 15:02:08 <Zakim> + +1.646.389.aagg 15:02:13 <Zakim> -??P11 15:02:22 <VinhNguyen> VinhNguyen has joined #prov 15:02:22 <Zakim> +??P30 15:02:37 <jorn> zakim, ??P30 is me 15:02:37 <Zakim> +jorn; got it 15:02:42 <Yogesh> Yogesh has joined #prov 15:02:47 <pgroth> Zakim, who is here? 15:02:47 <Zakim> On the phone I see pgroth, luc, dgarijo, GK, paolo, ??P17, paulo, SatyaSahoo, olaf, +1.509.375.aadd, Jeff_Pan, ??P6, sandro, +1.937.708.aaee, +1.540.449.aaff, +1.646.389.aagg, jorn 15:02:51 <Zakim> On IRC I see Yogesh, VinhNguyen, khalidbelhajjame, jcheney, zednik, abdn_uk, olaf, satya, paulo, paolo, GK, iker, dgarijo, Zakim, RRSAgent, luc, pgroth, jorn, Luc_, sandro, 15:02:54 <Zakim> ... trackbot 15:02:57 <Zakim> +??P33 15:03:09 <jcheney> zakim, ??P33 is me 15:03:09 <Zakim> +jcheney; got it 15:03:24 <Yogesh> zakim, +1.540 is me 15:03:24 <Zakim> +Yogesh; got it 15:03:39 <pgroth> Zakim, who is here? 15:03:39 <Zakim> On the phone I see pgroth, luc, dgarijo, GK, paolo, ??P17, paulo, SatyaSahoo, olaf, +1.509.375.aadd, Jeff_Pan, ??P6, sandro, +1.937.708.aaee, Yogesh, +1.646.389.aagg, jorn, jcheney 15:03:42 <Zakim> On IRC I see Yogesh, VinhNguyen, khalidbelhajjame, jcheney, zednik, abdn_uk, olaf, satya, paulo, paolo, GK, iker, dgarijo, Zakim, RRSAgent, luc, pgroth, jorn, sandro, trackbot 15:03:51 <Zakim> + +1.518.276.aahh 15:04:18 <VinhNguyen> zakim, +1.937.708.aaee is me 15:04:18 <Zakim> +VinhNguyen; got it 15:04:31 <luc> luc: use irc channel http://irc.w3.org/?channels=prov 15:04:39 <pgroth> Zakim, who is on the phone? 15:04:40 <Zakim> On the phone I see pgroth, luc, dgarijo, GK, paolo, ??P17, paulo, SatyaSahoo, olaf, +1.509.375.aadd, Jeff_Pan, ??P6, sandro, VinhNguyen, Yogesh, +1.646.389.aagg, jorn, jcheney, 15:04:43 <Zakim> ... +1.518.276.aahh 15:04:45 <ericstephan> ericstephan has joined #prov 15:05:00 <pgroth> http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/Meetings:Telecon2011.05.05 15:05:16 <luc> TOPIC: 1 Admin 15:05:36 <Zakim> + +1.518.633.aaii 15:06:01 <pgroth> http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/meeting/2011-04-28 15:06:02 <luc> SubTopic: Minutes Approval 15:06:02 <luc> Summary: Minutes of last week's meeting were approved 15:06:17 <Zakim> - +1.646.389.aagg 15:06:37 <Zakim> + +1.646.389.aajj 15:06:41 <pgroth> http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/track/actions/open 15:06:48 <luc> ACCEPTED: last week's minutes 15:06:57 <luc> SubTopic: Action Items 15:06:02 <luc> Summary: Actions 1 and 2 closed 15:06:59 <JamesMyers> JamesMyers has joined #prov 15:07:18 <pgroth> http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/Main_Page#Background 15:07:19 <YolandaGil> YolandaGil has joined #prov 15:08:13 <Zakim> + +1.518.276.aakk 15:08:35 <Zakim> +[ISI] 15:08:55 <Zakim> +[IPcaller] 15:09:03 <luc> Actions ACTION-1 and ACTION-2 t be closed 15:09:04 <YolandaGil> Zakim, +[ISI] is really me 15:09:04 <Zakim> sorry, YolandaGil, I do not recognize a party named '+[ISI]' 15:09:07 <jun> jun has joined #prov 15:09:15 <YolandaGil> Zakim, [ISI] is really me 15:09:15 <Zakim> +YolandaGil; got it 15:09:17 <Zakim> +[IPcaller.a] 15:09:18 <luc> SubTopic: Invited Experts 15:06:02 <luc> Summary: Decision of inviting experts still to be made by W3C 15:09:29 <luc> Sandro: still in progress 15:09:32 <jun> zakim, [IPcaller.a] is jun 15:09:32 <Zakim> +jun; got it 15:09:45 <paolo> I am in a similar situation: not officially joined yet 15:10:01 <luc> pgroth: mailing list will be updated once decisions made 15:10:15 <luc> SubTopic: email discussions 15:06:02 <luc> Summary: It's important to discuss issues by email during the week 15:10:34 <luc> pgroth: we cannot do all our discussions in a single weekly call 15:10:45 <frew> frew has joined #prov 15:10:45 <DeborahMcG> DeborahMcG has joined #prov 15:10:59 <luc> ... bring up all your comments on the mailing list (once you have been signed up for it!) 15:11:15 <luc> q? 15:11:28 <dgarijo> how do you "raise" an issue? 15:12:56 <GK> Isn't this what the tracker is for? 15:13:05 <luc> pgroth: discuss it by email, and formal process will follow, in telcon or through tracker 15:13:42 <luc> sandro: there is flexibility. In tracker: it's the 'create' option. Chairs can upgrade by opening. 15:14:03 <dgarijo> ok thx 15:14:08 <jcheney> Does creating an issue automatically generate an email? 15:14:16 <luc> pgroth: we can do it by email or by the tracker 15:14:36 <jcheney> OK 15:14:44 <luc> sandro: yes it does, it makes a thread automatically. Email posted on initial creation. 15:15:05 <luc> SubTopic: Scribe 15:06:02 <luc> Summary: Please volunteer to scribe 15:15:24 <luc> pgroth: we need people to volunteer 15:16:06 <luc> pgroth: let us know or update page http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/Scribes 15:16:12 <pgroth> http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/ProvenanceTaskForces 15:16:17 <luc> Topic: Provenance Task Forces <luc> Summary: The proposed structure and description of Provenance Task Forces were accepted. 15:17:16 <LarsG> LarsG has joined #prov 15:17:22 <Zakim> -jorn 15:17:34 <luc> pgroth: we want to get your feedback: are TF descriptions suitable? 15:17:50 <jcheney> +q 15:17:52 <Zakim> +??P30 15:18:03 <jorn> zakim, ??P30 is me 15:18:03 <Zakim> +jorn; got it 15:18:10 <luc> luc: this is an initial description, it will evolve over time probably 15:18:14 <paolo> zakim, who is on the phone? 15:18:14 <Zakim> On the phone I see pgroth, luc, dgarijo, GK, paolo, ??P17, paulo, SatyaSahoo, olaf, +1.509.375.aadd, Jeff_Pan, ??P6, sandro, VinhNguyen, Yogesh, jcheney, +1.518.276.aahh, 15:18:18 <Zakim> ... +1.518.633.aaii, +1.646.389.aajj, +1.518.276.aakk, YolandaGil, [IPcaller], jun, jorn 15:18:29 <Zakim> +[IPcaller.a] 15:18:33 <luc> jcheney: would be good to know who joins which TF? 15:18:59 <LarsG> Zakim, please mute me 15:18:59 <Zakim> LarsG should now be muted 15:19:07 <luc> jcheney: minor issues to discuss, but shouldn't delay approval 15:19:12 <jcheney> http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/Talk:ProvenanceTaskForces 15:19:55 <luc> jcheney: formal model vs formal semantics? what's the dividing line? 15:21:00 <GK> For the RDF work, the model and formal semantics were developed in parallel 15:21:12 <luc> jcheney: formal or informal first? 15:21:43 <luc> jcheney: i wanted to bring this up for the record 15:21:53 <luc> PROPOSED: to accept the structure of task forces 15:22:12 <satya> +1 15:22:14 <jcheney> +1 15:22:15 <jorn> +1 15:22:16 <ericstephan> +1 15:22:17 <iker> +1 15:22:17 <sandro> +1 15:22:17 <pgroth> +1 15:22:18 <JamesMyers> +1 15:22:18 <paolo> +1 15:22:18 <dgarijo> +1 15:22:19 <paulo> q+ 15:22:21 <abdn_uk> +1 15:22:22 <jun> +1 15:22:23 <frew> +1 15:22:25 <olaf> +1 15:22:26 <zednik> +1 15:22:28 <jcheney> -q 15:22:29 <Yogesh> +1 15:22:29 <khalidbelhajjame> +1 15:22:30 <luc> +1 15:22:56 <VinhNguyen> +1 15:22:59 <luc> paulo: I don't fully understand dependencies 15:23:20 <luc> ... some things can be done in parallel, but other tasks difficult without model 15:23:27 <paolo> q+ 15:24:26 <luc> paolo: implementation TF: is toolkit in scope of charter? 15:24:27 <Zakim> +??P41 15:24:39 <Zakim> -??P6 15:24:49 <luc> pgroth: it's for people in this TF to discuss 15:25:03 <ericstephan_> ericstephan_ has joined #prov 15:25:13 <CarlOGC> CarlOGC has joined #prov <luc>Scribe: pgroth 15:25:18 <luc> ... in WG, we encourage people to implement the standard, we don't do it ourselves 15:25:50 <pgroth> luc: not the goal of the working group to directly implement the standard 15:25:58 <satya> I think implementations/tools is also a requirement for the W3C recommendation process 15:26:16 <Zakim> +??P6 15:26:26 <pgroth> luc: we want encourage the implementation of the standards 15:26:50 <pgroth> luc: initial tasks for each task force can be done in parallel 15:26:53 <khalidbelhajjame> zakim, +??P6 is really me 15:26:53 <Zakim> sorry, khalidbelhajjame, I do not recognize a party named '+??P6' 15:27:07 <pgroth> luc: we need to identify and manage dependencies betweens task forces 15:27:09 <DavidC> DavidC has joined #prov 15:27:43 <Zakim> + +1.860.995.aall 15:27:45 <khalidbelhajjame> zakim, ??P6 is really me 15:27:45 <Zakim> +khalidbelhajjame; got it <luc>Scribe: luc 15:28:00 <luc> paulo: this answers my question 15:28:13 <luc> ACCEPTED: structure of task forces 15:28:28 <luc> Topic: Model Task Force <luc>Summary: An approach to bootstrap the Model Task Force was discussed, in which we adopt an example, and iteratively discuss charter concepts, to build a common understanding. This approach was accepted. We left the discussion of the actual example and its presentation to the next teleconference. 15:28:53 <luc> pgroth: by email, we outlined a way of bootstrapping activities of the Model Task Force 15:28:25 <pgroth> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-prov-wg/2011Apr/0012.html 15:28:59 <dgarijo> The initial scenario: http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/ProvenanceExampleAndConcept1 15:29:27 <luc> pgroth: an example, illustrating concepts of charter, and then raising issues for discussion 15:29:40 <paulo> q+ 15:29:54 <paolo> q- 15:30:07 <paolo> sorry that was dangling from earlier 15:31:21 <luc> paulo: most interesting incubator discussions were about the concepts (in final report of incubator) 15:31:46 <luc> paulo: reluctant to use mapping work for background of this group 15:32:32 <dgarijo> isn't that the actual starting point? 15:33:07 <Zakim> -jorn 15:33:26 <luc> sound quality is very poor for me 15:33:41 <Zakim> +??P30 15:33:48 <pgroth> http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/ProvenanceExampleAndConcept1 15:33:49 <luc> paulo: we should start from concepts of the final report 15:33:53 <jorn> zakim, ??P30 is me 15:33:53 <Zakim> +jorn; got it 15:34:10 <jcheney> +q 15:34:18 <luc> pgroth: that's exactly what is proposed, the example illustrates concepts from the charter 15:34:36 <luc> pgroth: i think we propose what you are suggesting 15:35:15 <luc> q- paulo 15:35:56 <luc> jcheney: we seem to bootstrap model task force with example 15:36:03 <paulo> q+ 15:36:08 <luc> q+ 15:37:03 <GK> +1 to using test cases to isolate issues 15:37:04 <luc> jcheney: when raising issues, we should give concrete examples of what we are trying to achieve 15:37:07 <jcheney> q- 15:37:09 <luc> q? <luc> Scribe: pgroth 15:37:35 <pgroth> luc: in the discussion, now, there are lots of references to the work that incubator did 15:37:49 <pgroth> luc: we should remember that half of the participants were not members of the incubator group 15:38:05 <pgroth> luc: we should begin discussions (similar to those we had in the incubator) around the concepts from the charter 15:38:28 <pgroth> luc: with this, we will bootstrap the model task force and we will educate the whole working group <luc> Scribe: luc 15:38:37 <luc> q- 15:38:38 <paulo> q+ 15:39:34 <luc> paulo: my only concern is to refer back to the mapping 15:40:01 <luc> paulo: we shouldn't consider the list of concepts final 15:40:36 <luc> ... e.g. versioning was put there as a placeholder 15:41:16 <luc> pgroth: that's the approach 15:41:41 <luc> I suggest we follow jcheney approach, to bring further examples which may indicate the need for further concepts 15:42:28 <luc> PROPOSED: discuss charter concepts initially, based on a given example 15:42:46 <jcheney> Concretely, it would help a lot of someone could add an example showing how to handle http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/ProvenanceExampleAndConcept1 using PML. 15:43:30 <dgarijo> but why PML only and not OPM/Provenir/Provenance Vocabulary and others? 15:43:38 <luc> pgroth: all discussions are public and in the open 15:44:00 <luc> ... any other comment about this proposal? 15:44:23 <dgarijo> +1 15:44:24 <jcheney> certainly, having OPM/Provenir/Provenance Vocabulary examples would help even more! 15:44:25 <DavidC> +1 15:44:26 <frew> pls restate proposal concisely 15:44:57 <paulo> q+ 15:45:14 <luc> PROPOSED: to accept the approach outlined in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-prov-wg/2011Apr/0012.html 15:45:50 <dgarijo> +q 15:46:28 <luc> paulo: we have languages, but we don't have semantics 15:46:53 <paolo> q+ 15:47:04 <jorn> +1 15:47:12 <luc> pgroth: proposal is to iterate through informal definitions, until we agree on an English definition 15:47:15 <JamesMyers> +1, I think the example is rich enough that it includes the concepts behind the differences in prior languages and adding issues/small point examples to capture anything missing will work 15:47:59 <dgarijo> q- 15:48:07 <luc> pgroth: the proposal is about the process, not the concrete example 15:48:40 <luc> paolo: people may be uncomfortable with the graph with strong opm flavor 15:48:47 <YolandaGil> q+ 15:48:50 <paolo> q- 15:48:54 <Zakim> -jorn 15:49:02 <pgroth> ack paulo 15:49:13 <luc> yolanda: we had lots of scenarios in the incubator 15:49:32 <luc> ... we selected concepts that were most relevant from these scenarios 15:49:32 <Zakim> +??P3 15:49:50 <jorn> zakim, ??P3 is me 15:49:50 <Zakim> +jorn; got it 15:49:59 <luc> ... concern with example-based approach is that we could go to deep on some concepts and not pay attention to others 15:50:25 <satya> q+ 15:50:33 <pgroth> ack YolandaGil 15:50:52 <luc> pgroth: by driving by an example, would we be too specific? 15:51:28 <luc> satya: we shouldn't use the graph, but the plain text descriptions, and add further concepts if required 15:51:32 <satya> q- 15:52:15 <jcheney> q+ 15:52:37 <luc> pgroth: remove the opm specific graph 15:52:59 <paulo> q+ 15:53:09 <luc> jcheney: use of other languages to describe the same scenario 15:53:27 <pgroth> ack jcheney 15:53:29 <jcheney> q- 15:53:30 <pgroth> ack paulo 15:53:34 <luc> ... would be good for comparison 15:53:39 <frew> +1 what jcheney said 15:54:08 <luc> paulo: issues are defined in opm terms 15:54:34 <luc> paulo: name of sections are OPM terms 15:54:57 <luc> paulo: meaning of the graph should be explained in plain english 15:55:17 <luc> q+ 15:55:18 <ericstephan_> ericstephan_ has joined #prov 15:56:08 <luc> paulo: what is the true scenario in this example? 15:56:54 <luc> paulo: we should not have pre-defined views of the world 15:57:27 <luc> paulo: we are already embracing terms with predefined meanings 15:57:32 <paolo> (I will need to leave the building at the top of the hour, talk next week. I would appreciate getting on the list if possible!) 15:57:37 <satya> I agree with Paulo - maybe we should start with the "Outline" and "Processing steps" in the example? <luc>Scribe: luc 15:57:51 <pgroth> luc: we should go back to the agenda 15:57:59 <pgroth> luc: we are mixing two different discussions 15:58:04 <pgroth> luc: we should agree (or not) on a process, which is 15:58:09 <pgroth> ... example driven 15:58:24 <pgroth> luc: which involves discussion of concepts of the charter 15:58:49 <pgroth> luc: what we are discussing right now is the content of the example, not the process 15:59:05 <pgroth> luc: to paulo, headings are terms from the charter, 15:59:12 <pgroth> ... these are not opm terms <luc>Scribe: pgroth <luc>pgroth: do we have support for the proposed process 15:59:28 <satya> +1 for example driven process 15:59:41 <GK> +1 for example driver 15:59:51 <JamesMyers> +1 for process 15:59:52 <ericstephan_> +1 15:59:52 <paolo> paolo has left #prov 15:59:53 <dgarijo> +1 the example 16:00:08 <paulo> +1 to be example-driven 16:00:13 <Zakim> -GK 16:00:14 <DavidC> +1 for example-driven approach 16:00:14 <frew> +1 EDA 16:00:19 <jcheney> +1 for example-driven 16:00:20 <Yogesh> +1 16:00:21 <olaf> +1 16:00:23 <jorn> +1 to example driven approache 16:00:23 <abdn_uk> +1 for example driven approach 16:00:26 <LarsG> +1 16:00:26 <khalidbelhajjame> +1 for example driven 16:00:27 <Yogesh> +1 EDA 16:00:38 <zednik> +1 for EDA 16:00:38 <jun> +1 16:00:42 <jcheney> (can the minutes make the proposal clear?) 16:01:03 <jcheney> +q <luc> luc: clarification requested here: <luc> Text added at minute-editing time, to clarify proposal <luc> Proposal extracted from http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-prov-wg/2011Apr/0012.html <luc> 1. We work with an initial scenario <luc> 2. We list "provenance-related queries" which we would like to support in this scenario <luc> 3. We then informally define concepts identified in the charter <luc> 4. Over time, this will allow us to construct a vocabulary and a shared understanding, which we will then formalize in the provenance model 16:01:17 <pgroth> ack luc 16:01:20 <pgroth> ack jcheney 16:01:23 <JimMcCusker> JimMcCusker has joined #prov 16:01:44 <luc> ACCEPTED: example driven approach as a process 16:01:55 <jcheney> OK, good 16:02:13 <Zakim> -YolandaGil 16:02:17 <luc> q- 16:02:25 <GK> q+ admin matter - to ask who is mailing list admin? 16:02:33 <Zakim> - +1.518.276.aahh 16:02:35 <Zakim> -SatyaSahoo 16:02:36 <Zakim> -Yogesh 16:02:36 <Zakim> -olaf 16:02:36 <Zakim> -khalidbelhajjame 16:02:37 <luc> pgroth: we'll end here but there is a lot to discuss on the example 16:02:38 <Zakim> -dgarijo 16:02:38 <Zakim> - +1.509.375.aadd 16:02:39 <Zakim> -??P41 16:02:42 <Zakim> -jun 16:02:43 <Yogesh> Yogesh has left #prov 16:02:46 <Zakim> - +1.518.633.aaii 16:02:48 <Zakim> -VinhNguyen 16:02:50 <Zakim> -sandro 16:02:52 <Zakim> -jcheney 16:02:59 <Zakim> -paolo 16:03:01 <Zakim> - +1.518.276.aakk 16:03:04 <Zakim> - +1.646.389.aajj 16:03:26 <Zakim> -jorn 16:03:29 <Zakim> -LarsG 16:03:34 <ericstephan_> ericstephan_ has left #prov 16:03:35 <Zakim> -Jeff_Pan 16:03:37 <Zakim> -pgroth 16:03:39 <Zakim> -luc 16:03:42 <GK> @sandro still here in IRC? #16:03:42 <pgroth> will you take care of doing the notes? 16:03:43 <Zakim> -[IPcaller] 16:03:49 <LarsG> LarsG has left #prov 16:03:59 <Zakim> - +1.860.995.aall 16:04:17 <Zakim> -??P17 16:04:54 <luc> rrsagent, set log public 16:05:06 <Zakim> -paulo 16:05:08 <Zakim> SW_(PROV)11:00AM has ended 16:05:09 <Zakim> Attendees were jorn, pgroth, luc, dgarijo, GK, paolo, paulo, SatyaSahoo, +49.302.093.aacc, +1.509.375.aadd, Jeff_Pan, sandro, olaf, +1.540.449.aaff, +1.646.389.aagg, jcheney, 16:05:13 <Zakim> ... Yogesh, +1.518.276.aahh, VinhNguyen, +1.518.633.aaii, +1.646.389.aajj, +1.518.276.aakk, [IPcaller], YolandaGil, jun, LarsG, +1.860.995.aall, khalidbelhajjame 16:05:16 <luc> rrsagent, draft minutes 16:05:16 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/05/05-prov-minutes.html luc 16:05:31 <luc> trackbot, end telcon 16:05:31 <trackbot> Zakim, list attendees 16:05:31 <Zakim> sorry, trackbot, I don't know what conference this is 16:05:32 <trackbot> RRSAgent, please draft minutes 16:05:32 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/05/05-prov-minutes.html trackbot 16:05:33 <trackbot> RRSAgent, bye 16:05:33 <RRSAgent> I see no action items # SPECIAL MARKER FOR CHATSYNC. DO NOT EDIT THIS LINE OR BELOW. SRCLINESUSED=00000415