Chatlog 2011-05-05

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<sandro> Guest: Yolanda Gil
<sandro> Guest: Jim McCusker
<luc> Guest: Olaf Hartig
<luc> Guest: Satya Sahoo 
<luc> Guest: Yogesh Simmhan 
<luc> Guest: James Frew
<luc> Guest: Stephan Zednik
<luc> Guest: Tim (rpi-lebo) Lebo
<luc> Guest: Jorn Hees
<luc> Guest: Khalid Belhajjame
<luc> Guest: Lars G
<luc> Guest: Edoardo (abdn_uk) Pignotti
<luc> Guest: Lena X
<luc> Guest: Paolo Missier
<luc> Guest: Jeff Pan
14:46:29 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #prov
14:46:29 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/05/05-prov-irc
14:46:31 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
14:46:31 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #prov
14:46:33 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 
14:46:33 <Zakim> I don't understand 'this will be', trackbot
14:46:34 <trackbot> Meeting: Provenance Working Group Teleconference
14:46:34 <trackbot> Date: 05 May 2011
14:47:49 <luc> Zakim, this will be  SW_PROV
14:47:49 <Zakim> I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled within the next hour, luc
14:48:04 <luc> Zakim, this will be PROV
14:48:04 <Zakim> ok, luc; I see SW_(PROV)11:00AM scheduled to start in 12 minutes
14:48:49 <luc> Agenda: http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/Meetings:Telecon2011.05.05
14:49:20 <luc> Chair: pgroth 
14:49:25 <dgarijo> dgarijo has joined #prov
14:49:26 <pgroth> hmm, i can't get on the call
14:49:33 <pgroth> is anyone else dialed in?
14:49:41 <luc> Scribe: luc
14:49:45 <dgarijo> hi
14:49:47 <dgarijo> not yet
14:50:11 <Zakim> SW_(PROV)11:00AM has now started
14:50:13 <luc> rrsagent, make logs public
14:50:19 <Zakim> +??P9
14:50:39 <jorn> zakim, +??P9 is me
14:50:39 <Zakim> sorry, jorn, I do not recognize a party named '+??P9'
14:50:47 <Zakim> +??P0
14:50:53 <jorn> zakim, ??P9 is me
14:50:53 <Zakim> +jorn; got it
14:51:01 <pgroth> zakim, ??P0 is me
14:51:01 <Zakim> +pgroth; got it
14:53:26 <Zakim> + +44.238.059.aaaa
14:54:02 <luc> zakim, who is here?
14:54:02 <Zakim> On the phone I see jorn, pgroth, +44.238.059.aaaa
14:54:03 <Zakim> On IRC I see dgarijo, Zakim, RRSAgent, luc, pgroth, jorn, Luc_, sandro, trackbot
14:54:14 <iker> iker has joined #prov
14:54:35 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
14:54:45 <luc> zakim, +44.238.059.aaaa is me
14:54:45 <Zakim> +luc; got it
14:55:01 <dgarijo> zakim, [IPcaller] is me
14:55:01 <Zakim> +dgarijo; got it
14:55:15 <Zakim> -jorn
14:55:28 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
14:56:04 <pgroth> Zakim, who is loud?
14:56:04 <Zakim> I don't understand your question, pgroth.
14:56:34 <Zakim> +??P18
14:56:36 <Zakim> +??P17
14:56:39 <luc> zakim, who is making noise?
14:56:49 <Zakim> luc, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: pgroth (50%), [IPcaller] (87%), ??P17 (24%)
14:57:05 <GK> GK has joined #prov
14:57:13 <luc> zakim, agenda?
14:57:13 <Zakim> I see nothing on the agenda
14:57:42 <iker> zakim, who's here?
14:57:42 <Zakim> On the phone I see pgroth, luc, dgarijo, [IPcaller], ??P18, ??P17
14:57:43 <Zakim> On IRC I see GK, iker, dgarijo, Zakim, RRSAgent, luc, pgroth, jorn, Luc_, sandro, trackbot
14:57:49 <Zakim> + +1.915.603.aabb
14:57:55 <paolo_> paolo_ has joined #prov
14:57:55 <luc> Regrets: Helena Deus
#14:57:55 <luc> Regrets: Simon Dobson, Simon Miles (no regrets for guests )
14:58:20 <paulo> paulo has joined #prov
14:58:30 <GK> I think [IPCaller] may be me ... Graham Klyne
#14:58:38 <pgroth> Regrets: Helena Deus
14:58:45 <paulo> q?
14:58:49 <satya> satya has joined #prov
14:58:57 <paolo_> zakim, who is on the phone?
14:58:57 <Zakim> On the phone I see pgroth, luc, dgarijo, [IPcaller], ??P18, ??P17, +1.915.603.aabb
14:59:28 <olaf> olaf has joined #prov
14:59:30 <dgarijo> zakim, [IPcaller] is GK
14:59:30 <Zakim> +GK; got it
14:59:39 <pgroth> zakim, who is on the phone?
14:59:39 <Zakim> On the phone I see pgroth, luc, dgarijo, GK, ??P18, ??P17, +1.915.603.aabb
15:00:06 <abdn_uk> abdn_uk has joined #prov
15:00:19 <paolo> zakim, ??P18 is me
15:00:20 <pgroth> zakim, +1.915.603.aabb is paulo
15:00:20 <Zakim> +paolo; got it
15:00:20 <Zakim> +paulo; got it
15:00:32 <pgroth> zakim, who is on the phone?
15:00:36 <Zakim> +SatyaSahoo
15:00:44 <zednik> zednik has joined #prov
15:00:45 <Zakim> On the phone I see pgroth, luc, dgarijo, GK, paolo, ??P17, paulo, SatyaSahoo
15:00:59 <paulo> zakim, +1.915.603.aabb is me
15:01:02 <Zakim> + +49.302.093.aacc
15:01:08 <Zakim> +??P33
15:01:13 <Zakim> sorry, paulo, I do not recognize a party named '+1.915.603.aabb'
15:01:14 <Zakim> + +1.509.375.aadd
15:01:18 <Zakim> +Jeff_Pan
15:01:20 <Zakim> +??P6
15:01:22 <Zakim> +??P11
15:01:24 <Zakim> +sandro
15:01:26 <Zakim> + +1.937.708.aaee
15:01:33 <olaf> zakim, aacc is me
15:01:33 <Zakim> +olaf; got it
15:01:41 <pgroth> zakim, who is on the phone?
15:01:41 <Zakim> On the phone I see pgroth, luc, dgarijo, GK, paolo, ??P17, paulo, SatyaSahoo, olaf, ??P33, +1.509.375.aadd, Jeff_Pan, ??P6, ??P11, sandro, +1.937.708.aaee
15:01:41 <jcheney> jcheney has joined #prov
15:01:45 <Zakim> -??P33
15:01:51 <Zakim> + +1.540.449.aaff
15:02:00 <jcheney> Zakim, who is here
15:02:00 <Zakim> jcheney, you need to end that query with '?'
15:02:02 <khalidbelhajjame> khalidbelhajjame has joined #prov
15:02:03 <jcheney> Zakim, who is here?
15:02:03 <Zakim> On the phone I see pgroth, luc, dgarijo, GK, paolo, ??P17, paulo, SatyaSahoo, olaf, +1.509.375.aadd, Jeff_Pan, ??P6, ??P11, sandro, +1.937.708.aaee, +1.540.449.aaff
15:02:06 <Zakim> On IRC I see khalidbelhajjame, jcheney, zednik, abdn_uk, olaf, satya, paulo, paolo, GK, iker, dgarijo, Zakim, RRSAgent, luc, pgroth, jorn, Luc_, sandro, trackbot
15:02:08 <Zakim> + +1.646.389.aagg
15:02:13 <Zakim> -??P11
15:02:22 <VinhNguyen> VinhNguyen has joined #prov
15:02:22 <Zakim> +??P30
15:02:37 <jorn> zakim, ??P30 is me
15:02:37 <Zakim> +jorn; got it
15:02:42 <Yogesh> Yogesh has joined #prov
15:02:47 <pgroth> Zakim, who is here?
15:02:47 <Zakim> On the phone I see pgroth, luc, dgarijo, GK, paolo, ??P17, paulo, SatyaSahoo, olaf, +1.509.375.aadd, Jeff_Pan, ??P6, sandro, +1.937.708.aaee, +1.540.449.aaff, +1.646.389.aagg, jorn
15:02:51 <Zakim> On IRC I see Yogesh, VinhNguyen, khalidbelhajjame, jcheney, zednik, abdn_uk, olaf, satya, paulo, paolo, GK, iker, dgarijo, Zakim, RRSAgent, luc, pgroth, jorn, Luc_, sandro,
15:02:54 <Zakim> ... trackbot
15:02:57 <Zakim> +??P33
15:03:09 <jcheney> zakim, ??P33 is me
15:03:09 <Zakim> +jcheney; got it
15:03:24 <Yogesh> zakim, +1.540 is me
15:03:24 <Zakim> +Yogesh; got it
15:03:39 <pgroth> Zakim, who is here?
15:03:39 <Zakim> On the phone I see pgroth, luc, dgarijo, GK, paolo, ??P17, paulo, SatyaSahoo, olaf, +1.509.375.aadd, Jeff_Pan, ??P6, sandro, +1.937.708.aaee, Yogesh, +1.646.389.aagg, jorn, jcheney
15:03:42 <Zakim> On IRC I see Yogesh, VinhNguyen, khalidbelhajjame, jcheney, zednik, abdn_uk, olaf, satya, paulo, paolo, GK, iker, dgarijo, Zakim, RRSAgent, luc, pgroth, jorn, sandro, trackbot
15:03:51 <Zakim> + +1.518.276.aahh
15:04:18 <VinhNguyen> zakim, +1.937.708.aaee is me
15:04:18 <Zakim> +VinhNguyen; got it
15:04:31 <luc> luc: use irc channel http://irc.w3.org/?channels=prov
15:04:39 <pgroth> Zakim, who is on the phone?
15:04:40 <Zakim> On the phone I see pgroth, luc, dgarijo, GK, paolo, ??P17, paulo, SatyaSahoo, olaf, +1.509.375.aadd, Jeff_Pan, ??P6, sandro, VinhNguyen, Yogesh, +1.646.389.aagg, jorn, jcheney,
15:04:43 <Zakim> ... +1.518.276.aahh
15:04:45 <ericstephan> ericstephan has joined #prov
15:05:00 <pgroth> http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/Meetings:Telecon2011.05.05
15:05:16 <luc> TOPIC: 1 Admin
15:05:36 <Zakim> + +1.518.633.aaii
15:06:01 <pgroth> http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/meeting/2011-04-28
15:06:02 <luc> SubTopic: Minutes Approval
15:06:02 <luc> Summary: Minutes of last week's meeting were approved
15:06:17 <Zakim> - +1.646.389.aagg
15:06:37 <Zakim> + +1.646.389.aajj
15:06:41 <pgroth> http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/track/actions/open
15:06:48 <luc> ACCEPTED: last week's minutes
15:06:57 <luc> SubTopic: Action Items
15:06:02 <luc> Summary: Actions 1 and 2 closed
15:06:59 <JamesMyers> JamesMyers has joined #prov
15:07:18 <pgroth> http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/Main_Page#Background
15:07:19 <YolandaGil> YolandaGil has joined #prov
15:08:13 <Zakim> + +1.518.276.aakk
15:08:35 <Zakim> +[ISI]
15:08:55 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
15:09:03 <luc> Actions ACTION-1 and ACTION-2 t be closed 
15:09:04 <YolandaGil> Zakim, +[ISI] is really me
15:09:04 <Zakim> sorry, YolandaGil, I do not recognize a party named '+[ISI]'
15:09:07 <jun> jun has joined #prov
15:09:15 <YolandaGil> Zakim, [ISI] is really me
15:09:15 <Zakim> +YolandaGil; got it
15:09:17 <Zakim> +[IPcaller.a]
15:09:18 <luc> SubTopic: Invited Experts
15:06:02 <luc> Summary: Decision of inviting experts still to be made by W3C
15:09:29 <luc> Sandro: still in progress
15:09:32 <jun> zakim, [IPcaller.a] is jun
15:09:32 <Zakim> +jun; got it
15:09:45 <paolo> I am in a similar situation: not officially joined yet
15:10:01 <luc> pgroth:  mailing list will be updated once decisions made
15:10:15 <luc> SubTopic: email discussions
15:06:02 <luc> Summary: It's important to discuss issues by email during the week
15:10:34 <luc> pgroth: we cannot do all our discussions in a single weekly call
15:10:45 <frew> frew has joined #prov
15:10:45 <DeborahMcG> DeborahMcG has joined #prov
15:10:59 <luc> ... bring up all your comments on the mailing list (once you have been signed up for it!)
15:11:15 <luc> q?
15:11:28 <dgarijo> how do you "raise" an issue?
15:12:56 <GK> Isn't this what the tracker is for?
15:13:05 <luc> pgroth: discuss it by email, and formal process will follow, in telcon or through tracker
15:13:42 <luc> sandro: there is flexibility. In tracker: it's the 'create' option. Chairs can upgrade by opening.
15:14:03 <dgarijo> ok thx
15:14:08 <jcheney> Does creating an issue automatically generate an email?
15:14:16 <luc> pgroth: we can do it by email or by the tracker
15:14:36 <jcheney> OK
15:14:44 <luc> sandro: yes it does, it makes a thread automatically. Email posted on initial creation.
15:15:05 <luc> SubTopic: Scribe
15:06:02 <luc> Summary: Please volunteer to scribe
15:15:24 <luc> pgroth: we need people to volunteer
15:16:06 <luc> pgroth: let us know or update page http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/Scribes
15:16:12 <pgroth> http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/ProvenanceTaskForces
15:16:17 <luc> Topic: Provenance Task Forces
<luc> Summary: The proposed structure and description of Provenance Task Forces were accepted.
15:17:16 <LarsG> LarsG has joined #prov
15:17:22 <Zakim> -jorn
15:17:34 <luc> pgroth: we want to get your feedback: are TF descriptions suitable?
15:17:50 <jcheney> +q
15:17:52 <Zakim> +??P30
15:18:03 <jorn> zakim, ??P30 is me
15:18:03 <Zakim> +jorn; got it
15:18:10 <luc> luc: this is an initial description, it will evolve over time probably
15:18:14 <paolo> zakim, who is on the phone?
15:18:14 <Zakim> On the phone I see pgroth, luc, dgarijo, GK, paolo, ??P17, paulo, SatyaSahoo, olaf, +1.509.375.aadd, Jeff_Pan, ??P6, sandro, VinhNguyen, Yogesh, jcheney, +1.518.276.aahh,
15:18:18 <Zakim> ... +1.518.633.aaii, +1.646.389.aajj, +1.518.276.aakk, YolandaGil, [IPcaller], jun, jorn
15:18:29 <Zakim> +[IPcaller.a]
15:18:33 <luc> jcheney: would be good to know who joins which TF?
15:18:59 <LarsG> Zakim, please mute me
15:18:59 <Zakim> LarsG should now be muted
15:19:07 <luc> jcheney: minor issues to discuss, but shouldn't delay approval
15:19:12 <jcheney> http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/Talk:ProvenanceTaskForces
15:19:55 <luc> jcheney: formal model vs formal semantics? what's the dividing line?
15:21:00 <GK> For the RDF work, the model and formal semantics were developed in parallel
15:21:12 <luc> jcheney: formal or informal first?
15:21:43 <luc> jcheney: i wanted to bring this up for the record
15:21:53 <luc> PROPOSED: to accept the structure of task forces
15:22:12 <satya> +1
15:22:14 <jcheney> +1
15:22:15 <jorn> +1
15:22:16 <ericstephan> +1
15:22:17 <iker> +1
15:22:17 <sandro> +1
15:22:17 <pgroth> +1
15:22:18 <JamesMyers> +1
15:22:18 <paolo> +1
15:22:18 <dgarijo> +1
15:22:19 <paulo> q+
15:22:21 <abdn_uk> +1
15:22:22 <jun> +1
15:22:23 <frew> +1
15:22:25 <olaf> +1
15:22:26 <zednik> +1
15:22:28 <jcheney> -q
15:22:29 <Yogesh> +1
15:22:29 <khalidbelhajjame> +1
15:22:30 <luc> +1
15:22:56 <VinhNguyen> +1
15:22:59 <luc> paulo: I don't fully understand dependencies
15:23:20 <luc> ... some things can be done in parallel, but other tasks difficult without model
15:23:27 <paolo> q+
15:24:26 <luc> paolo: implementation TF: is  toolkit in scope of charter?
15:24:27 <Zakim> +??P41
15:24:39 <Zakim> -??P6
15:24:49 <luc> pgroth: it's for people in this TF to discuss
15:25:03 <ericstephan_> ericstephan_ has joined #prov
15:25:13 <CarlOGC> CarlOGC has joined #prov
<luc>Scribe: pgroth
15:25:18 <luc> ... in WG, we encourage people to implement the standard, we don't do it ourselves
15:25:50 <pgroth> luc: not the goal of the working group to directly implement the standard
15:25:58 <satya> I think implementations/tools is also a requirement for the W3C recommendation process
15:26:16 <Zakim> +??P6
15:26:26 <pgroth> luc: we want encourage the implementation of the standards
15:26:50 <pgroth> luc: initial tasks for each task force can be done in parallel
15:26:53 <khalidbelhajjame> zakim, +??P6 is really me
15:26:53 <Zakim> sorry, khalidbelhajjame, I do not recognize a party named '+??P6'
15:27:07 <pgroth> luc: we need to identify and manage dependencies betweens task forces
15:27:09 <DavidC> DavidC has joined #prov
15:27:43 <Zakim> + +1.860.995.aall
15:27:45 <khalidbelhajjame> zakim, ??P6 is really me
15:27:45 <Zakim> +khalidbelhajjame; got it
<luc>Scribe: luc
15:28:00 <luc> paulo: this answers my question
15:28:13 <luc> ACCEPTED: structure of task forces
15:28:28 <luc> Topic: Model Task Force
<luc>Summary: An approach to bootstrap the Model Task Force was discussed, in which we adopt an example, and iteratively discuss charter concepts, to build a common understanding. This approach was accepted. We left the discussion of the actual example and its presentation to the next teleconference.
15:28:53 <luc> pgroth: by email, we outlined a way of bootstrapping activities of the Model Task Force
15:28:25 <pgroth> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-prov-wg/2011Apr/0012.html
15:28:59 <dgarijo> The initial scenario: http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/ProvenanceExampleAndConcept1
15:29:27 <luc> pgroth: an example, illustrating concepts of charter, and then raising issues for discussion
15:29:40 <paulo> q+
15:29:54 <paolo> q-
15:30:07 <paolo> sorry that was dangling from earlier
15:31:21 <luc> paulo: most interesting incubator discussions were about the concepts (in final report of incubator)
15:31:46 <luc> paulo: reluctant to use mapping work for background of this group
15:32:32 <dgarijo> isn't that the actual starting point?
15:33:07 <Zakim> -jorn
15:33:26 <luc> sound quality is very poor for me
15:33:41 <Zakim> +??P30
15:33:48 <pgroth> http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/ProvenanceExampleAndConcept1
15:33:49 <luc> paulo: we should start from concepts of the final report
15:33:53 <jorn> zakim, ??P30 is me
15:33:53 <Zakim> +jorn; got it
15:34:10 <jcheney> +q
15:34:18 <luc> pgroth: that's exactly what is proposed, the example illustrates concepts from the charter
15:34:36 <luc> pgroth: i think we propose what you are suggesting
15:35:15 <luc> q- paulo
15:35:56 <luc> jcheney: we seem to bootstrap model task force with example
15:36:03 <paulo> q+
15:36:08 <luc> q+
15:37:03 <GK> +1 to using test cases to isolate issues
15:37:04 <luc> jcheney: when raising issues, we should give concrete examples of what we are trying to achieve
15:37:07 <jcheney> q-
15:37:09 <luc> q?
<luc> Scribe: pgroth
15:37:35 <pgroth> luc: in the discussion, now, there are lots of references to the work that incubator did
15:37:49 <pgroth> luc: we should remember that half of the participants were not members of the incubator group
15:38:05 <pgroth> luc: we should begin discussions (similar to those we had in the incubator) around the concepts from the charter
15:38:28 <pgroth> luc: with this, we will bootstrap the model task force and we will educate the whole working group
<luc> Scribe: luc
15:38:37 <luc> q-
15:38:38 <paulo> q+
15:39:34 <luc> paulo: my only concern is to refer back to the mapping
15:40:01 <luc> paulo: we shouldn't consider the list of concepts final
15:40:36 <luc> ... e.g. versioning was put there as a placeholder
15:41:16 <luc> pgroth: that's the approach
15:41:41 <luc> I suggest we follow jcheney approach, to bring further examples which may indicate the need for further concepts
15:42:28 <luc> PROPOSED: discuss charter concepts initially, based on a given example
15:42:46 <jcheney> Concretely, it would help a lot of someone could add an example showing how to handle http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/ProvenanceExampleAndConcept1 using PML. 
15:43:30 <dgarijo> but why PML only and not OPM/Provenir/Provenance Vocabulary and others?
15:43:38 <luc> pgroth: all discussions are public and in the open
15:44:00 <luc> ... any other comment about this proposal?
15:44:23 <dgarijo> +1
15:44:24 <jcheney> certainly, having OPM/Provenir/Provenance Vocabulary examples would help even more!
15:44:25 <DavidC> +1
15:44:26 <frew> pls restate proposal concisely
15:44:57 <paulo> q+
15:45:14 <luc> PROPOSED: to accept the approach outlined in  http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-prov-wg/2011Apr/0012.html
15:45:50 <dgarijo> +q
15:46:28 <luc> paulo: we have languages, but we don't have semantics
15:46:53 <paolo> q+
15:47:04 <jorn> +1
15:47:12 <luc> pgroth: proposal is to iterate through informal definitions, until we agree on an English definition
15:47:15 <JamesMyers> +1, I think the example is rich enough that it includes the concepts behind the differences in prior languages and adding issues/small point examples to capture anything missing will work
15:47:59 <dgarijo> q-
15:48:07 <luc> pgroth: the proposal is about the process, not the concrete example
15:48:40 <luc> paolo: people may be uncomfortable with the graph with strong opm flavor
15:48:47 <YolandaGil> q+
15:48:50 <paolo> q-
15:48:54 <Zakim> -jorn
15:49:02 <pgroth> ack paulo
15:49:13 <luc> yolanda: we had lots of scenarios in the incubator
15:49:32 <luc> ... we selected concepts that were most relevant from these scenarios
15:49:32 <Zakim> +??P3
15:49:50 <jorn> zakim, ??P3 is me
15:49:50 <Zakim> +jorn; got it
15:49:59 <luc> ... concern with example-based approach is that we could go to deep on some concepts and not pay attention to others
15:50:25 <satya> q+
15:50:33 <pgroth> ack YolandaGil
15:50:52 <luc> pgroth: by driving by an example, would we be too specific?
15:51:28 <luc> satya: we shouldn't use the graph, but the plain text descriptions, and add further concepts if required
15:51:32 <satya> q-
15:52:15 <jcheney> q+
15:52:37 <luc> pgroth: remove the opm specific graph
15:52:59 <paulo> q+
15:53:09 <luc> jcheney: use of other languages to describe the same scenario
15:53:27 <pgroth> ack jcheney
15:53:29 <jcheney> q-
15:53:30 <pgroth> ack paulo
15:53:34 <luc> ... would be good for comparison
15:53:39 <frew> +1 what jcheney said
15:54:08 <luc> paulo: issues are defined in opm terms
15:54:34 <luc> paulo: name of sections are OPM terms
15:54:57 <luc> paulo: meaning of the graph should be explained in plain english
15:55:17 <luc> q+
15:55:18 <ericstephan_> ericstephan_ has joined #prov
15:56:08 <luc> paulo: what is the true scenario in this example?
15:56:54 <luc> paulo: we should not have pre-defined views of the world
15:57:27 <luc> paulo: we are already embracing terms with predefined meanings
15:57:32 <paolo> (I will need to leave the building at the top of the hour, talk next week. I would appreciate getting on the list if possible!)
15:57:37 <satya> I agree with Paulo - maybe we should start with the "Outline" and "Processing steps" in the example?
<luc>Scribe: luc
15:57:51 <pgroth> luc: we should go back to the agenda
15:57:59 <pgroth> luc: we are mixing two different discussions
15:58:04 <pgroth> luc: we should agree (or not) on a process, which is
15:58:09 <pgroth> ... example driven
15:58:24 <pgroth> luc: which involves discussion of concepts of the charter
15:58:49 <pgroth> luc: what we are discussing right now is the content of the example, not the process
15:59:05 <pgroth> luc: to paulo, headings are terms from the charter,
15:59:12 <pgroth> ... these are not opm terms
<luc>Scribe: pgroth
<luc>pgroth: do we have support for the proposed process
15:59:28 <satya> +1 for example driven process
15:59:41 <GK> +1 for example driver
15:59:51 <JamesMyers> +1 for process
15:59:52 <ericstephan_> +1
15:59:52 <paolo> paolo has left #prov
15:59:53 <dgarijo> +1 the example
16:00:08 <paulo> +1 to be example-driven
16:00:13 <Zakim> -GK
16:00:14 <DavidC> +1  for example-driven approach
16:00:14 <frew> +1 EDA
16:00:19 <jcheney> +1 for example-driven
16:00:20 <Yogesh> +1
16:00:21 <olaf> +1
16:00:23 <jorn> +1 to example driven approache
16:00:23 <abdn_uk> +1 for example driven approach
16:00:26 <LarsG> +1
16:00:26 <khalidbelhajjame> +1 for example driven
16:00:27 <Yogesh> +1 EDA
16:00:38 <zednik> +1 for EDA
16:00:38 <jun> +1
16:00:42 <jcheney> (can the minutes make the proposal clear?)
16:01:03 <jcheney> +q
<luc> luc: clarification requested here:
<luc> Text added at minute-editing time, to clarify proposal
<luc> Proposal extracted from http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-prov-wg/2011Apr/0012.html
<luc> 1. We work with an initial scenario 
<luc> 2. We list "provenance-related queries" which we would like to support in this scenario
<luc> 3. We then informally define concepts identified in the charter
<luc> 4. Over time, this will allow us to construct a vocabulary and a shared understanding, which we will then formalize in the provenance model
16:01:17 <pgroth> ack luc
16:01:20 <pgroth> ack jcheney
16:01:23 <JimMcCusker> JimMcCusker has joined #prov
16:01:44 <luc> ACCEPTED: example driven approach as a process
16:01:55 <jcheney> OK, good
16:02:13 <Zakim> -YolandaGil
16:02:17 <luc> q-
16:02:25 <GK> q+ admin matter - to ask who is mailing list admin?
16:02:33 <Zakim> - +1.518.276.aahh
16:02:35 <Zakim> -SatyaSahoo
16:02:36 <Zakim> -Yogesh
16:02:36 <Zakim> -olaf
16:02:36 <Zakim> -khalidbelhajjame
16:02:37 <luc> pgroth: we'll end here but there is a lot to discuss on the example
16:02:38 <Zakim> -dgarijo
16:02:38 <Zakim> - +1.509.375.aadd
16:02:39 <Zakim> -??P41
16:02:42 <Zakim> -jun
16:02:43 <Yogesh> Yogesh has left #prov
16:02:46 <Zakim> - +1.518.633.aaii
16:02:48 <Zakim> -VinhNguyen
16:02:50 <Zakim> -sandro
16:02:52 <Zakim> -jcheney
16:02:59 <Zakim> -paolo
16:03:01 <Zakim> - +1.518.276.aakk
16:03:04 <Zakim> - +1.646.389.aajj
16:03:26 <Zakim> -jorn
16:03:29 <Zakim> -LarsG
16:03:34 <ericstephan_> ericstephan_ has left #prov
16:03:35 <Zakim> -Jeff_Pan
16:03:37 <Zakim> -pgroth
16:03:39 <Zakim> -luc
16:03:42 <GK> @sandro still here in IRC?
#16:03:42 <pgroth> will you take care of doing the notes?
16:03:43 <Zakim> -[IPcaller]
16:03:49 <LarsG> LarsG has left #prov
16:03:59 <Zakim> - +1.860.995.aall
16:04:17 <Zakim> -??P17
16:04:54 <luc> rrsagent, set log public
16:05:06 <Zakim> -paulo
16:05:08 <Zakim> SW_(PROV)11:00AM has ended
16:05:09 <Zakim> Attendees were jorn, pgroth, luc, dgarijo, GK, paolo, paulo, SatyaSahoo, +49.302.093.aacc, +1.509.375.aadd, Jeff_Pan, sandro, olaf, +1.540.449.aaff, +1.646.389.aagg, jcheney,
16:05:13 <Zakim> ... Yogesh, +1.518.276.aahh, VinhNguyen, +1.518.633.aaii, +1.646.389.aajj, +1.518.276.aakk, [IPcaller], YolandaGil, jun, LarsG, +1.860.995.aall, khalidbelhajjame
16:05:16 <luc> rrsagent, draft minutes
16:05:16 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/05/05-prov-minutes.html luc
16:05:31 <luc> trackbot, end telcon
16:05:31 <trackbot> Zakim, list attendees
16:05:31 <Zakim> sorry, trackbot, I don't know what conference this is
16:05:32 <trackbot> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
16:05:32 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/05/05-prov-minutes.html trackbot
16:05:33 <trackbot> RRSAgent, bye
16:05:33 <RRSAgent> I see no action items
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