The WG was reminded that the deadline for submitting implementation reports is the end of January. An implementation report (as specified by the forms defined by the WG) identifies which features were successfully implemented. Hence, an implementation is not required to support all PROV features: instead, for each implementation, implementers should identify which features are supported. The participants were reminded that we are keen to identify implementations consuming provenance produced by others. Effort on implementing the constraints is also required. Stephan will investigate the possibility of converting information submitted to WBS into a summary of all implementations, so that we can understand features coverage.
We had a discussion about hadMember. The editors are invited to specify a ternary relation, such as hadDictionaryMember (name to be decided by editors), such that hadDictionaryMember(d,e,k) implies hadMember(d,e). Editors are invited to produce a document, ready for review by 2013-01-10. Paolo, Stian, James (maybe), Luc, and Paul will review the document then. Other volunteers welcome!
Graham updated us on the status of prov-aq. No change took place since the previous teleconference, though solutions are shaping for the link relation type and default provenance representation. Editors will produce a document ready for review by 2013-01-10. Tim (kindly invited in absentia), Simon, Luc, Dong, and Stian will then review the document. Volunteers welcome!
15:38:36 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2013/01/03-prov-irc
RRSAgent IRC Bot: logging to http://www.w3.org/2013/01/03-prov-irc ←
15:38:38 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
Trackbot IRC Bot: RRSAgent, make logs world ←
15:38:40 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be PROV
Trackbot IRC Bot: Zakim, this will be PROV ←
15:38:40 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see SW_(PROV)11:00AM scheduled to start in 22 minutes
Zakim IRC Bot: ok, trackbot; I see SW_(PROV)11:00AM scheduled to start in 22 minutes ←
15:38:41 <trackbot> Meeting: Provenance Working Group Teleconference
15:38:41 <trackbot> Date: 03 January 2013
15:38:41 <Luc> Zakim, this will be PROV
Luc Moreau: Zakim, this will be PROV ←
15:38:42 <Zakim> ok, Luc; I see SW_(PROV)11:00AM scheduled to start in 22 minutes
Zakim IRC Bot: ok, Luc; I see SW_(PROV)11:00AM scheduled to start in 22 minutes ←
15:38:56 <Luc> Agenda: http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/Meetings:Telecon2013.01.03
15:39:03 <Luc> Chair: Luc Moreau
15:39:10 <Luc> rrsagent, make logs public
Luc Moreau: rrsagent, make logs public ←
15:39:20 <Luc> Regrets: Ivan Herman
15:39:59 <Luc> Scribe: dgarijo
(Scribe set to Daniel Garijo)
15:49:04 <Zakim> SW_(PROV)11:00AM has now started
(No events recorded for 9 minutes)
Zakim IRC Bot: SW_(PROV)11:00AM has now started ←
15:49:10 <Zakim> SW_(PROV)11:00AM has ended
Zakim IRC Bot: SW_(PROV)11:00AM has ended ←
15:49:11 <Zakim> Attendees were
Zakim IRC Bot: Attendees were ←
15:54:34 <Luc> zakim, who is on the phone?
(No events recorded for 5 minutes)
Luc Moreau: zakim, who is on the phone? ←
15:54:34 <Zakim> apparently SW_(PROV)11:00AM has ended, Luc
Zakim IRC Bot: apparently SW_(PROV)11:00AM has ended, Luc ←
15:54:35 <Zakim> On IRC I see GK1, GK, Zakim, RRSAgent, Luc, MacTed, trackbot, stain
Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see GK1, GK, Zakim, RRSAgent, Luc, MacTed, trackbot, stain ←
15:54:50 <Luc> Zakim, this will be PROV
Luc Moreau: Zakim, this will be PROV ←
15:54:50 <Zakim> ok, Luc; I see SW_(PROV)11:00AM scheduled to start in 6 minutes
Zakim IRC Bot: ok, Luc; I see SW_(PROV)11:00AM scheduled to start in 6 minutes ←
15:55:15 <Luc> rrsagent, make logs public
Luc Moreau: rrsagent, make logs public ←
15:55:20 <Luc> zakim, who is here?
Luc Moreau: zakim, who is here? ←
15:55:20 <Zakim> apparently SW_(PROV)11:00AM has ended, Luc
Zakim IRC Bot: apparently SW_(PROV)11:00AM has ended, Luc ←
15:55:21 <Zakim> On IRC I see GK1, GK, Zakim, RRSAgent, Luc, MacTed, trackbot, stain
Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see GK1, GK, Zakim, RRSAgent, Luc, MacTed, trackbot, stain ←
15:57:16 <GK> Luc, Zakim's mutterings about conference ended may be because I dialled in briefly a few minutes ago, to test a new VoIP client.
Graham Klyne: Luc, Zakim's mutterings about conference ended may be because I dialled in briefly a few minutes ago, to test a new VoIP client. ←
15:57:31 <Luc> Zakim, this will be PROV
Luc Moreau: Zakim, this will be PROV ←
15:57:31 <Zakim> ok, Luc; I see SW_(PROV)11:00AM scheduled to start in 3 minutes
Zakim IRC Bot: ok, Luc; I see SW_(PROV)11:00AM scheduled to start in 3 minutes ←
15:58:24 <Zakim> SW_(PROV)11:00AM has now started
Zakim IRC Bot: SW_(PROV)11:00AM has now started ←
15:58:31 <Zakim> +Luc
Zakim IRC Bot: +Luc ←
15:58:49 <Luc> zakim, who is here?
Luc Moreau: zakim, who is here? ←
15:58:49 <Zakim> On the phone I see Luc
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see Luc ←
15:58:50 <Zakim> On IRC I see dgarijo, Curt, pgroth, GK1, GK, Zakim, RRSAgent, Luc, MacTed, trackbot, stain
Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see dgarijo, Curt, pgroth, GK1, GK, Zakim, RRSAgent, Luc, MacTed, trackbot, stain ←
15:59:33 <Zakim> +Curt_Tilmes
Zakim IRC Bot: +Curt_Tilmes ←
15:59:45 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
Zakim IRC Bot: +[IPcaller] ←
15:59:54 <Zakim> +??P5
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P5 ←
15:59:56 <pgroth> Zakim, [IPcaller] is me
Paul Groth: Zakim, [IPcaller] is me ←
15:59:56 <Zakim> +pgroth; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +pgroth; got it ←
16:00:03 <dgarijo> Zakim, ??P5 is me
Zakim, ??P5 is me ←
16:00:03 <Zakim> +dgarijo; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +dgarijo; got it ←
16:00:28 <Zakim> +??P7
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P7 ←
16:00:43 <Zakim> +??P8
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P8 ←
16:00:48 <Zakim> +OpenLink_Software
Zakim IRC Bot: +OpenLink_Software ←
16:00:54 <dgarijo> Agenda: http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/Meetings:Telecon2013.01.03
16:00:55 <MacTed> Zakim, OpenLink_Software is temporarily me
Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, OpenLink_Software is temporarily me ←
16:00:55 <Zakim> +MacTed; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +MacTed; got it ←
16:00:57 <MacTed> Zakim, mute me
Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, mute me ←
16:00:57 <Zakim> MacTed should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: MacTed should now be muted ←
16:01:01 <GK> zakim, ??p7 is maybe me
Graham Klyne: zakim, ??p7 is maybe me ←
16:01:01 <Zakim> I don't understand '??p7 is maybe me', GK
Zakim IRC Bot: I don't understand '??p7 is maybe me', GK ←
16:01:07 <smiles> zakim, ??P8 is me
Simon Miles: zakim, ??P8 is me ←
16:01:07 <Zakim> +smiles; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +smiles; got it ←
16:01:18 <Luc> zakim, who is here?
Luc Moreau: zakim, who is here? ←
16:01:18 <Zakim> On the phone I see Luc, Curt_Tilmes, pgroth, dgarijo, ??P7, smiles, MacTed (muted)
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see Luc, Curt_Tilmes, pgroth, dgarijo, ??P7, smiles, MacTed (muted) ←
16:01:19 <GK> zakim, ??p7 is me
Graham Klyne: zakim, ??p7 is me ←
16:01:20 <Zakim> On IRC I see hook, smiles, dgarijo, Curt, pgroth, GK1, GK, Zakim, RRSAgent, Luc, MacTed, trackbot, stain
Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see hook, smiles, dgarijo, Curt, pgroth, GK1, GK, Zakim, RRSAgent, Luc, MacTed, trackbot, stain ←
16:01:20 <Zakim> +GK; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +GK; got it ←
16:01:35 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
Zakim IRC Bot: +[IPcaller] ←
16:01:52 <dgarijo> Luc: Happy new year. Best wishes
Luc Moreau: Happy new year. Best wishes ←
16:01:56 <Zakim> +jcheney
Zakim IRC Bot: +jcheney ←
16:02:07 <Luc> http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/meeting/2012-12-13
Luc Moreau: http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/meeting/2012-12-13 ←
16:02:13 <dgarijo> ... vote for the minutes of last telecon
... vote for the minutes of last telecon ←
16:02:20 <Zakim> + +1.818.731.aaaa
Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.818.731.aaaa ←
16:02:20 <Luc> proposed: approved last telecon's minutes
PROPOSED: approved last telecon's minutes ←
16:02:28 <dgarijo> +1
+1 ←
16:02:32 <Curt> +1
Curt Tilmes: +1 ←
16:02:32 <smiles> +1
Simon Miles: +1 ←
16:02:35 <jcheney> +1
James Cheney: +1 ←
16:02:39 <stain> Zakim, [IPcaller] is me
Stian Soiland-Reyes: Zakim, [IPcaller] is me ←
16:02:39 <Zakim> +stain; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +stain; got it ←
16:02:40 <stain> 0
16:02:50 <hook> +1
16:03:02 <Luc> resolved: last telecon's minutes
RESOLVED: last telecon's minutes ←
16:03:05 <GK> +1
Graham Klyne: +1 ←
16:03:32 <dgarijo> Luc: actions. Tim had one. Another on Luc (not done)
Luc Moreau: actions. Tim had one. Another on Luc (not done) ←
16:03:43 <dgarijo> ... James do you want to add anything?
... James do you want to add anything? ←
16:03:48 <dgarijo> jcheney: no
James Cheney: no ←
16:04:09 <dgarijo> Luc: Dong will respond to your feedback
Luc Moreau: Dong will respond to your feedback ←
16:04:23 <dgarijo> ... action on stephan to review the proposal of xml namespaces
... action on stephan to review the proposal of xml namespaces ←
16:04:37 <Luc> topic: WG implementations
Summary: The WG was reminded that the deadline for submitting implementation reports is the end of January. An implementation report (as specified by the forms defined by the WG) identifies which features were successfully implemented. Hence, an implementation is not required to support all PROV features: instead, for each implementation, implementers should identify which features are supported. The participants were reminded that we are keen to identify implementations consuming provenance produced by others. Effort on implementing the constraints is also required. Stephan will investigate the possibility of converting information submitted to WBS into a summary of all implementations, so that we can understand features coverage.
<luc>Summary: The WG was reminded that the deadline for submitting implementation reports is the end of January. An implementation report (as specified by the forms defined by the WG) identifies which features were successfully implemented. Hence, an implementation is not required to support all PROV features: instead, for each implementation, implementers should identify which features are supported. The participants were reminded that we are keen to identify implementations consuming provenance produced by others. Effort on implementing the constraints is also required. Stephan will investigate the possibility of converting information submitted to WBS into a summary of all implementations, so that we can understand features coverage.
16:04:40 <dgarijo> ... will tackle that next week (stephan is not on the call)
... will tackle that next week (stephan is not on the call) ←
16:04:56 <MacTed> MacTed has changed the topic to: PROV WG - http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/ - Agenda: http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/Meetings:Telecon2013.01.03
Ted Thibodeau: MacTed has changed the topic to: PROV WG - http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/ - Agenda: http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/Meetings:Telecon2013.01.03 ←
16:05:02 <dgarijo> ... Paul went through the survey system and circulated the results.
... Paul went through the survey system and circulated the results. ←
16:05:17 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
Zakim IRC Bot: +[IPcaller] ←
16:05:20 <dgarijo> ... 6 implementations, 2 extensions.
... 6 implementations, 2 extensions. ←
16:05:31 <Zakim> +[IPcaller.a]
Zakim IRC Bot: +[IPcaller.a] ←
16:05:33 <dgarijo> ... we're still far from where we thought we would be
... we're still far from where we thought we would be ←
16:05:51 <Luc> q?
Luc Moreau: q? ←
16:05:53 <Paolo> zakim, [IPcaller] is me
Paolo Missier: zakim, [IPcaller] is me ←
16:05:53 <Zakim> +Paolo; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +Paolo; got it ←
16:05:56 <pgroth> me
Paul Groth: me ←
16:05:59 <smiles> I still hope to do so
Simon Miles: I still hope to do so ←
16:06:01 <dgarijo> ... we have to make a call for filling the survey
... we have to make a call for filling the survey ←
16:06:05 <pgroth> q+
Paul Groth: q+ ←
16:06:16 <Luc> q?
Luc Moreau: q? ←
16:06:19 <Luc> ack pg
Luc Moreau: ack pg ←
16:06:24 <dgarijo> I have already filled 1 extension and 1 implenentation.
I have already filled 1 extension and 1 implenentation. ←
16:06:29 <Paolo> quite a way away from constraints impl.
Paolo Missier: quite a way away from constraints impl. ←
16:06:39 <dgarijo> pgroth: 1 constraints and 1 implementation.
Paul Groth: 1 constraints and 1 implementation. ←
16:06:52 <khalidBelhajjame> zakim, [IPcaller.a] is me
Khalid Belhajjame: zakim, [IPcaller.a] is me ←
16:06:52 <Zakim> +khalidBelhajjame; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +khalidBelhajjame; got it ←
16:06:55 <Luc> q?
Luc Moreau: q? ←
16:06:56 <stain> q+
Stian Soiland-Reyes: q+ ←
16:06:57 <dgarijo> smiles: impl report and vocabulary usage
Simon Miles: impl report and vocabulary usage ←
16:07:01 <Paolo> several half-baked implementations but would need additional resources to pull them off
Paolo Missier: several half-baked implementations but would need additional resources to pull them off ←
16:07:05 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
Zakim IRC Bot: +[IPcaller] ←
16:07:09 <khalidBelhajjame> I have filled in one extension report, and Stian will submit one implementation report
Khalid Belhajjame: I have filled in one extension report, and Stian will submit one implementation report ←
16:07:24 <dgarijo> paolo: several threads ongoing
Paolo Missier: several threads ongoing ←
16:07:31 <stain> I sent one implementation and one vocab-extension earlier today
Stian Soiland-Reyes: I sent one implementation and one vocab-extension earlier today ←
16:07:40 <dgarijo> ... the main one is related to the constraints implementation
... the main one is related to the constraints implementation ←
16:07:41 <stain> another vocab-extension coming hopefully next week
Stian Soiland-Reyes: another vocab-extension coming hopefully next week ←
16:07:44 <stain> q-
Stian Soiland-Reyes: q- ←
16:08:11 <dgarijo> ... I'll see if resources come along. Then I'll submit the report
... I'll see if resources come along. Then I'll submit the report ←
16:08:19 <Zakim> +??P17
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P17 ←
16:08:22 <stain> dgarijo: have we submitted our corpus?
Daniel Garijo: have we submitted our corpus? [ Scribe Assist by Stian Soiland-Reyes ] ←
16:08:39 <khalidBelhajjame> @Stian, yes
Khalid Belhajjame: @Stian, yes ←
16:08:42 <Curt> I will work with Stephan to submit a vocab usage for us
Curt Tilmes: I will work with Stephan to submit a vocab usage for us ←
16:08:46 <dgarijo> ... submitted a paper for the prov corpus.
... submitted a paper for the prov corpus. ←
16:08:55 <khalidBelhajjame> I mean not to as a report
Khalid Belhajjame: I mean not to as a report ←
16:09:03 <dgarijo> Luc: it can be a proof of concept. It doesn't have to use the whole prov.
Luc Moreau: it can be a proof of concept. It doesn't have to use the whole prov. ←
16:09:12 <dgarijo> @Stian, yes, we did.
@Stian, yes, we did. ←
16:09:21 <pgroth> @paolo that's fine
Paul Groth: @paolo that's fine ←
16:09:55 <dgarijo> paolo: if it doesn't have to be complete, then I'll be happy to fill the survey
Paolo Missier: if it doesn't have to be complete, then I'll be happy to fill the survey ←
16:09:57 <stain> @dgarijo - should that not be a "Vocabulary usage" submission then..?
Stian Soiland-Reyes: @dgarijo - should that not be a "Vocabulary usage" submission then..? ←
16:10:17 <dgarijo> @Khalid: did Raul submit roevo?
@Khalid: did Raul submit roevo? ←
16:10:31 <Luc> q?
Luc Moreau: q? ←
16:10:39 <khalidBelhajjame> @Stian, but that is covered by the tavernaprov and wing-plugin, which have already been submitted!
Khalid Belhajjame: @Stian, but that is covered by the tavernaprov and wing-plugin, which have already been submitted! ←
16:10:50 <dgarijo> @Stian: Ah, I haven't filled an entry for the corpus. We do have submitted to the prov-bench.
@Stian: Ah, I haven't filled an entry for the corpus. We do have submitted to the prov-bench. ←
16:11:08 <GK> @paolo, I think that's useful information to record.
Graham Klyne: @paolo, I think that's useful information to record. ←
16:11:24 <GK> (i.e. about constructs that need datalog extensions)
Graham Klyne: (i.e. about constructs that need datalog extensions) ←
16:11:43 <stain> @dgarijo I think we should submit the corpus to the survey as well
Stian Soiland-Reyes: @dgarijo I think we should submit the corpus to the survey as well ←
16:11:43 <Luc> q?
Luc Moreau: q? ←
16:11:52 <dgarijo> Luc: if yur system tells us that a set of constraints have failed then it is ok.
Luc Moreau: if yur system tells us that a set of constraints have failed then it is ok. ←
16:12:15 <Luc> q?
Luc Moreau: q? ←
16:12:24 <dgarijo> paolo: ok. I'll work to realign the parser to the current version in the toolbox.
Paolo Missier: ok. I'll work to realign the parser to the current version in the toolbox. ←
16:12:38 <dgarijo> @stian: it makes sense.
@stian: it makes sense. ←
16:13:12 <dgarijo> khalid: I have submitted wfprov and Stian has submitted tavernaprov plugin.
Khalid Belhajjame: I have submitted wfprov and Stian has submitted tavernaprov plugin. ←
16:14:40 <dgarijo> jcheney: Looking to wraping datalog into a java program (similar to what paolo is working on).
James Cheney: Looking to wraping datalog into a java program (similar to what paolo is working on). ←
16:14:47 <dgarijo> +q
+q ←
16:15:19 <dgarijo> Luc: hook?
Luc Moreau: hook? ←
16:15:43 <dgarijo> Hook: we got approval to work on an extension of Prov (meeting next week regarding that)
Hook Hua: we got approval to work on an extension of Prov (meeting next week regarding that) ←
16:15:49 <dgarijo> ... 1 year effort
... 1 year effort ←
16:16:24 <dgarijo> ... processing and data analysis -> prov-o. We have an initial extension of the ontology.
... processing and data analysis -> prov-o. We have an initial extension of the ontology. ←
16:16:40 <dgarijo> Luc: Will you have something to submit by the end of Jan?
Luc Moreau: Will you have something to submit by the end of Jan? ←
16:16:43 <Luc> q?
Luc Moreau: q? ←
16:16:44 <dgarijo> Hook: yes
16:17:23 <dgarijo> ... but it's an effort that will take more than a year
... but it's an effort that will take more than a year ←
16:17:38 <dgarijo> GK: No plan to do an implementation at the moment
Graham Klyne: No plan to do an implementation at the moment ←
16:18:03 <dgarijo> Curt: Will work with Stephan and submit something
Curt Tilmes: Will work with Stephan and submit something ←
16:18:28 <dgarijo> zednik: Will submit something together with Curt
Stephan Zednik: Will submit something together with Curt ←
16:18:41 <dgarijo> Stain: I'll register a new voc extension next week.
Stian Soiland-Reyes: I'll register a new voc extension next week. ←
16:18:56 <MacTed> Zakim, unmute me
Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, unmute me ←
16:18:56 <Zakim> MacTed should no longer be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: MacTed should no longer be muted ←
16:19:09 <MacTed> Zakim, mute me
Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, mute me ←
16:19:09 <Zakim> MacTed should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: MacTed should now be muted ←
16:19:09 <pgroth> q+ to ask about getting report results and interchange
Paul Groth: q+ to ask about getting report results and interchange ←
16:19:13 <dgarijo> MacTed: I don't think I'll submit something.
Ted Thibodeau: I don't think I'll submit something. ←
16:19:19 <dgarijo> q-
q- ←
16:19:43 <dgarijo> pgroth: I can't take the questionnaires to display all the result. Do we have all these emails anywhere?
Paul Groth: I can't take the questionnaires to display all the result. Do we have all these emails anywhere? ←
16:19:48 <dgarijo> stephan?
stephan? ←
16:19:57 <dgarijo> zednik: I do have the e mails.
Stephan Zednik: I do have the e mails. ←
16:20:11 <dgarijo> ... I'll look into it, but I do have the emails
... I'll look into it, but I do have the emails ←
16:20:26 <dgarijo> pgroth: concerned about the interchange
Paul Groth: concerned about the interchange ←
16:20:42 <dgarijo> zednik: we are getting some responses.
Stephan Zednik: we are getting some responses. ←
16:21:06 <dgarijo> Luc: stephan, it will be useful to know what the actual coverage is. Some features may not be supported yet.
Luc Moreau: stephan, it will be useful to know what the actual coverage is. Some features may not be supported yet. ←
16:21:25 <pgroth> q+
Paul Groth: q+ ←
16:21:36 <Dong> @Paul: My Provenance Service consumes provenance deposited by Luc's validator
Trung Huynh: @Paul: My Provenance Service consumes provenance deposited by Luc's validator ←
16:21:38 <dgarijo> ... maybe we need to know whether we need to put more effor in those concepts.
... maybe we need to know whether we need to put more effor in those concepts. ←
16:21:55 <dgarijo> zednik: I will look into it
Stephan Zednik: I will look into it ←
16:22:28 <jun> <@luc, we will try to encourage prov-bench submitters to also submit the questionnaire.>
Jun Zhao: <@luc, we will try to encourage prov-bench submitters to also submit the questionnaire.> ←
16:22:44 <dgarijo> pgroth: we need other people to submit to the survey
Paul Groth: we need other people to submit to the survey ←
16:22:55 <Zakim> +[IPcaller.a]
Zakim IRC Bot: +[IPcaller.a] ←
16:22:55 <pgroth> @Dong - it has to be from different institutions
Paul Groth: @Dong - it has to be from different institutions ←
16:23:04 <Luc> action pgroth to send reminder about implementation reports
Luc Moreau: action pgroth to send reminder about implementation reports ←
16:23:11 <Luc> action: pgroth to send reminder about implementation reports
ACTION: pgroth to send reminder about implementation reports ←
16:23:12 <trackbot> Created ACTION-157 - Send reminder about implementation reports [on Paul Groth - due 2013-01-10].
Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-157 - Send reminder about implementation reports [on Paul Groth - due 2013-01-10]. ←
16:23:34 <dgarijo> jun: we have coordinated several submissions for the wf4Ever project
Jun Zhao: we have coordinated several submissions for the wf4Ever project ←
16:24:01 <dgarijo> Luc: are you still planning to work on the ocnstraints?
Luc Moreau: are you still planning to work on the ocnstraints? ←
16:24:17 <dgarijo> Jun: pressed with a project review. Will try
Jun Zhao: pressed with a project review. Will try ←
16:24:23 <Luc> topic: Prov-Dictionary
Summary: We had a discussion about hadMember. The editors are invited to specify a ternary relation, such as hadDictionaryMember (name to be decided by editors), such that hadDictionaryMember(d,e,k) implies hadMember(d,e). Editors are invited to produce a document, ready for review by 2013-01-10. Paolo, Stian, James (maybe), Luc, and Paul will review the document then. Other volunteers welcome!
<luc>Summary: We had a discussion about hadMember. The editors are invited to specify a ternary relation, such as hadDictionaryMember (name to be decided by editors), such that hadDictionaryMember(d,e,k) implies hadMember(d,e). Editors are invited to produce a document, ready for review by 2013-01-10. Paolo, Stian, James (maybe), Luc, and Paul will review the document then. Other volunteers welcome!
16:24:24 <Dong> @Paul, I understand. Anyone can post provenance documents to my service if they use our PROV-JSON format :)
Trung Huynh: @Paul, I understand. Anyone can post provenance documents to my service if they use our PROV-JSON format :) ←
16:24:24 <Zakim> -khalidBelhajjame
Zakim IRC Bot: -khalidBelhajjame ←
16:24:25 <Luc> q?
Luc Moreau: q? ←
16:24:28 <Luc> ack pg
Luc Moreau: ack pg ←
16:24:28 <Zakim> pgroth, you wanted to ask about getting report results and interchange and to
Zakim IRC Bot: pgroth, you wanted to ask about getting report results and interchange and to ←
16:25:05 <dgarijo> Luc: is the doc ready for review?
Luc Moreau: is the doc ready for review? ←
16:25:20 <dgarijo> pgroth: we should recruit reviewers for today
Paul Groth: we should recruit reviewers for today ←
16:25:28 <Paolo> I would like to review it
Paolo Missier: I would like to review it ←
16:25:29 <dgarijo> ... any volunteers?
... any volunteers? ←
16:25:30 <Dong> @Paul: and Luc has the translation service for all the official representations to PROV-JSON
Trung Huynh: @Paul: and Luc has the translation service for all the official representations to PROV-JSON ←
16:25:38 <stain> +1
Stian Soiland-Reyes: +1 ←
16:25:46 <jcheney> I'll have a look, not much time
James Cheney: I'll have a look, not much time ←
16:25:46 <GK> I already did a brief review over the holiday.
Graham Klyne: I already did a brief review over the holiday. ←
16:25:48 <pgroth> q+
Paul Groth: q+ ←
16:25:48 <stain> all the historic authors..
Stian Soiland-Reyes: all the historic authors.. ←
16:25:57 <Luc> prov dictionary reviewers: Paolo, Stian, James (maybe), Luc
Luc Moreau: prov dictionary reviewers: Paolo, Stian, James (maybe), Luc ←
16:25:57 <pgroth> ack pgroth
Paul Groth: ack pgroth ←
16:25:58 <pgroth> +1
Paul Groth: +1 ←
16:26:05 <dgarijo> Paolo, Stian, James (maybe), Paul.
Paolo, Stian, James (maybe), Paul. ←
16:26:12 <pgroth> no
Paul Groth: no ←
16:26:16 <Luc> prov dictionary reviewers: Paolo, Stian, James (maybe), Luc, Paul
Luc Moreau: prov dictionary reviewers: Paolo, Stian, James (maybe), Luc, Paul ←
16:26:26 <Zakim> +[IPcaller.aa]
Zakim IRC Bot: +[IPcaller.aa] ←
16:26:34 <pgroth> q+
Paul Groth: q+ ←
16:26:36 <khalidBelhajjame> zakim, [IPcaller.aa] is me
Khalid Belhajjame: zakim, [IPcaller.aa] is me ←
16:26:36 <Zakim> +khalidBelhajjame; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +khalidBelhajjame; got it ←
16:26:40 <dgarijo> Luc: very good. Are we in a position to discuss hadMember?
Luc Moreau: very good. Are we in a position to discuss hadMember? ←
16:27:22 <zednik> +q
Stephan Zednik: +q ←
16:27:26 <pgroth> ack pgroth
Paul Groth: ack pgroth ←
16:27:27 <Luc> ack pg
Luc Moreau: ack pg ←
16:27:32 <dgarijo> Luc: I didn't follow all the discussion, but I got the feeling that there was some kind of consensus
Luc Moreau: I didn't follow all the discussion, but I got the feeling that there was some kind of consensus ←
16:27:39 <pgroth> ack zednik
Paul Groth: ack zednik ←
16:28:15 <dgarijo> stephanZ: currently hadMember doesn't support attributes.
Stephan Zednik: currently hadMember doesn't support attributes. ←
16:28:26 <pgroth> q+
Paul Groth: q+ ←
16:29:12 <dgarijo> Luc: there seems to be an aproval among the members of the call. The ternary relation sounds good.
Luc Moreau: there seems to be an aproval among the members of the call. The ternary relation sounds good. ←
16:29:31 <pgroth> ack pgroth
Paul Groth: ack pgroth ←
16:29:34 <Luc> q?
Luc Moreau: q? ←
16:29:42 <Luc> topic: PROV-AQ
Summary: Graham updated us on the status of prov-aq. No change took place since the previous teleconference, though solutions are shaping for the link relation type and default provenance representation. Editors will produce a document ready for review by 2013-01-10. Tim (kindly invited in absentia), Simon, Luc, Dong, and Stian will then review the document. Volunteers welcome!
16:24:23 <Luc> Summary: Graham updated us on the status of prov-aq. No change took place since the previous teleconference, though solutions are shaping for the link relation type and default provenance representation. Editors will produce a document ready for review by 2013-01-10. Tim (kindly invited in absentia), Simon, Luc, Dong, and Stian will then review the document. Volunteers welcome!
16:29:58 <pgroth> we can hear you!
(No events recorded for 5 minutes)
Paul Groth: we can hear you! ←
16:29:59 <pgroth> :-)
Paul Groth: :-) ←
16:30:14 <dgarijo> GK: no change since the last teleconf
Graham Klyne: no change since the last teleconf ←
16:30:36 <dgarijo> ... the main progress is about the discussion of the provenance service access. In particular sparql
... the main progress is about the discussion of the provenance service access. In particular sparql ←
16:30:41 <GK> My latest proposal at http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-prov-wg/2013Jan/0002.html
Graham Klyne: My latest proposal at http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-prov-wg/2013Jan/0002.html ←
16:30:47 <dgarijo> my latest proposal ^^
my latest proposal ^^ ←
16:30:54 <GK> Main points (re http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/track/issues/609):
Graham Klyne: Main points (re http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/track/issues/609): ←
16:30:54 <GK> - propose to use single link relation type for provenance service via template and SPARQL endpoint
Graham Klyne: - propose to use single link relation type for provenance service via template and SPARQL endpoint ←
16:30:54 <GK> - stick with RDF for service description (there's some uncertainty about this among some LDPers)
Graham Klyne: - stick with RDF for service description (there's some uncertainty about this among some LDPers) ←
16:30:54 <GK> - expand service description to allow either or both service option
Graham Klyne: - expand service description to allow either or both service option ←
16:30:55 <GK> - service description with URI template unchecked (but see below)
Graham Klyne: - service description with URI template unchecked (but see below) ←
16:30:55 <GK> - SPARQL service description per http://www.w3.org/TR/sparql11-service-description/ (i.e. nothing new here)
Graham Klyne: - SPARQL service description per http://www.w3.org/TR/sparql11-service-description/ (i.e. nothing new here) ←
16:32:59 <dgarijo> ... small changes to the existing document, which keeps us in line with the events happening in other places.I'm waiting for Tim's response.
... small changes to the existing document, which keeps us in line with the events happening in other places.I'm waiting for Tim's response. ←
16:33:34 <dgarijo> ... the question is about prov provenance service term. Does it apply to all service options?
... the question is about prov provenance service term. Does it apply to all service options? ←
16:34:03 <pgroth> I liked the solution is with multi-typing
Paul Groth: I liked the solution is with multi-typing ←
16:34:29 <Luc> q?
Luc Moreau: q? ←
16:34:30 <dgarijo> ... when Tim comes I'll update the document.
... when Tim comes I'll update the document. ←
16:34:57 <GK> http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/track/issues/425
Graham Klyne: http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/track/issues/425 ←
16:34:57 <GK> [[
Graham Klyne: [[ ←
16:34:57 <GK> While use of RDF for service descriptions is a recommended option, this specification does not preclude the use of non-RDF formats that a service may choose to offer, and which can be selected using HTTP content negotiation.
Graham Klyne: While use of RDF for service descriptions is a recommended option, this specification does not preclude the use of non-RDF formats that a service may choose to offer, and which can be selected using HTTP content negotiation. ←
16:34:57 <GK> ]]
Graham Klyne: ]] ←
16:34:58 <GK> http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/prov/raw-file/tip/paq/prov-aq.html#provenance-service-description
Graham Klyne: http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/prov/raw-file/tip/paq/prov-aq.html#provenance-service-description ←
16:35:00 <dgarijo> 2 other issues raised at the previous telecon: 1) Service description format.
2 other issues raised at the previous telecon: 1) Service description format. ←
16:35:11 <dgarijo> ...^^
...^^ ←
16:35:23 <dgarijo> ... I think this is sufficient for now.
... I think this is sufficient for now. ←
16:35:28 <GK> http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/track/issues/428
Graham Klyne: http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/track/issues/428 ←
16:35:28 <GK>
16:35:28 <GK> Broadly, my position is to make no further change. The use of other formats than RDF is not precluded, but RDF is the most developed option, and apparently has most interest. As such, it provides a reasonable basis for interoperability.
Graham Klyne: Broadly, my position is to make no further change. The use of other formats than RDF is not precluded, but RDF is the most developed option, and apparently has most interest. As such, it provides a reasonable basis for interoperability. ←
16:35:45 <dgarijo> ... The other issue is related to the format of provenance.
... The other issue is related to the format of provenance. ←
16:35:58 <dgarijo> ... discussion about interoperability vs flexibility
... discussion about interoperability vs flexibility ←
16:36:12 <dgarijo> ... rdf seems to be the most developed option
... rdf seems to be the most developed option ←
16:36:19 <Luc> q+
Luc Moreau: q+ ←
16:36:46 <dgarijo> Luc: regarding the last point, I didn't understand.
Luc Moreau: regarding the last point, I didn't understand. ←
16:36:57 <dgarijo> GK: myme types are allowed.
Graham Klyne: myme types are allowed. ←
16:37:26 <dgarijo> Luc: this group is defining 2 mymetypes for provenance, so they should be allowed.
Luc Moreau: this group is defining 2 mymetypes for provenance, so they should be allowed. ←
16:37:52 <pgroth> q+
Paul Groth: q+ ←
16:37:57 <dgarijo> GK: facing interoperability, what should we recommend implementers to give the maximum of interoperability?
Graham Klyne: facing interoperability, what should we recommend implementers to give the maximum of interoperability? ←
16:38:04 <Luc> q?
Luc Moreau: q? ←
16:38:08 <Luc> ack luc
Luc Moreau: ack luc ←
16:38:13 <dgarijo> Luc: my view is that we should not do that.
Luc Moreau: my view is that we should not do that. ←
16:39:29 <dgarijo> pgroth: several options for tackling the issue. One way is that we don't say anything. Another one is to provide a default.
Paul Groth: several options for tackling the issue. One way is that we don't say anything. Another one is to provide a default. ←
16:39:37 <Luc> q?
Luc Moreau: q? ←
16:39:42 <Luc> ack pgr
Luc Moreau: ack pgr ←
16:39:47 <Luc> translators can help
Luc Moreau: translators can help ←
16:39:50 <dgarijo> ... this is kind of the discussion we are having
... this is kind of the discussion we are having ←
16:40:01 <dgarijo> Luc: thanks pgroth
Luc Moreau: thanks pgroth ←
16:40:04 <Luc> q?
Luc Moreau: q? ←
16:40:26 <dgarijo> ... what is the timetable?
... what is the timetable? ←
16:40:51 <dgarijo> GK: affected by fb during christmas
Graham Klyne: affected by fb during christmas ←
16:41:08 <pgroth> q+
Paul Groth: q+ ←
16:41:20 <Luc> ack pg
Luc Moreau: ack pg ←
16:41:21 <dgarijo> ... it also depends on Tim's availability.
... it also depends on Tim's availability. ←
16:41:44 <dgarijo> pgroth: it would be better to get it out on thursday
Paul Groth: it would be better to get it out on thursday ←
16:42:03 <dgarijo> ... we want to have something for the Jan deadline.
... we want to have something for the Jan deadline. ←
16:42:03 <Dong> I think it'll be difficult to force implementations to support a particular representation, even a single default one. Can the supported representation included in the service description?
Trung Huynh: I think it'll be difficult to force implementations to support a particular representation, even a single default one. Can the supported representation included in the service description? ←
16:42:28 <Luc> q?
Luc Moreau: q? ←
16:42:45 <dgarijo> GK: just made the proposals, but I don't think there will be big changes.
Graham Klyne: just made the proposals, but I don't think there will be big changes. ←
16:43:23 <dgarijo> Luc: I'm keen to make sure to make this doc ready when we make the recommendations out. It would be good if we had it ready for next week
Luc Moreau: I'm keen to make sure to make this doc ready when we make the recommendations out. It would be good if we had it ready for next week ←
16:43:45 <pgroth> yep happy to do it
Paul Groth: yep happy to do it ←
16:44:00 <dgarijo> GK: pgroth will take the lead of the doc next week.
Graham Klyne: pgroth will take the lead of the doc next week. ←
16:44:17 <dgarijo> Luc: that's the last time it will be released before the final release.
Luc Moreau: that's the last time it will be released before the final release. ←
16:44:27 <dgarijo> GK: I think we're pretty good.
Graham Klyne: I think we're pretty good. ←
16:45:10 <dgarijo> Luc: the document no longer emphasizes query. Is it still reasonable to have the term "query" in the the title
Luc Moreau: the document no longer emphasizes query. Is it still reasonable to have the term "query" in the the title ←
16:45:26 <dgarijo> GK: the query will gain relevance after the latest changes+
Graham Klyne: the query will gain relevance after the latest changes+ ←
16:45:28 <pgroth> q+
Paul Groth: q+ ←
16:45:52 <Luc> ack pgr
Luc Moreau: ack pgr ←
16:45:58 <dgarijo> Luc: if we drop query then we have to change the short name. We have to keep that in mind.
Luc Moreau: if we drop query then we have to change the short name. We have to keep that in mind. ←
16:46:18 <dgarijo> pgroth: I would prefer to change it, but maybe that should be a question for the reviewers.
Paul Groth: I would prefer to change it, but maybe that should be a question for the reviewers. ←
16:46:25 <Dong> +1
Trung Huynh: +1 ←
16:46:26 <Luc> q?
Luc Moreau: q? ←
16:46:31 <dgarijo> Luc: sounds good
Luc Moreau: sounds good ←
16:46:46 <smiles> I can review this
Simon Miles: I can review this ←
16:46:48 <dgarijo> Luc: who will review the document?
Luc Moreau: who will review the document? ←
16:46:49 <pgroth> @graham, let me know when I should take the editing token
Paul Groth: @graham, let me know when I should take the editing token ←
16:46:59 <GK> @paul, sure
Graham Klyne: @paul, sure ←
16:47:00 <Dong> I can as well
Trung Huynh: I can as well ←
16:47:09 <Luc> prov-aq reviewers: Tim, Simon, Luc, Dong
Luc Moreau: prov-aq reviewers: Tim, Simon, Luc, Dong ←
16:47:13 <stain> +1
Stian Soiland-Reyes: +1 ←
16:47:20 <Luc> prov-aq reviewers: Tim, Simon, Luc, Dong, Stian
Luc Moreau: prov-aq reviewers: Tim, Simon, Luc, Dong, Stian ←
16:47:21 <smiles> q+
Simon Miles: q+ ←
16:47:43 <dgarijo> smiles: are we reviewing now or from thursday next week.
Simon Miles: are we reviewing now or from thursday next week. ←
16:47:47 <dgarijo> Luc: next week.
Luc Moreau: next week. ←
16:47:52 <Luc> q?
Luc Moreau: q? ←
16:47:55 <Luc> ack smil
Luc Moreau: ack smil ←
16:48:11 <dgarijo> tty next week
tty next week ←
16:48:12 <Zakim> -jcheney
Zakim IRC Bot: -jcheney ←
16:48:14 <dgarijo> good bye
good bye ←
16:48:14 <Zakim> -MacTed
Zakim IRC Bot: -MacTed ←
16:48:15 <khalidBelhajjame> bye
Khalid Belhajjame: bye ←
16:48:16 <Zakim> -Curt_Tilmes
Zakim IRC Bot: -Curt_Tilmes ←
16:48:17 <Zakim> -pgroth
Zakim IRC Bot: -pgroth ←
16:48:17 <Zakim> -khalidBelhajjame
Zakim IRC Bot: -khalidBelhajjame ←
16:48:19 <zednik> bye
Stephan Zednik: bye ←
16:48:19 <Zakim> -Paolo
Zakim IRC Bot: -Paolo ←
16:48:19 <Zakim> -stain
Zakim IRC Bot: -stain ←
16:48:21 <Dong> thanks, bye all
Trung Huynh: thanks, bye all ←
16:48:21 <GK> Bye. +10mins :)
Graham Klyne: Bye. +10mins :) ←
16:48:21 <Zakim> - +1.818.731.aaaa
Zakim IRC Bot: - +1.818.731.aaaa ←
16:48:23 <Zakim> -dgarijo
Zakim IRC Bot: -dgarijo ←
16:48:23 <Zakim> -[IPcaller.a]
Zakim IRC Bot: -[IPcaller.a] ←
16:48:26 <Zakim> -[IPcaller]
Zakim IRC Bot: -[IPcaller] ←
16:48:27 <Zakim> -smiles
Zakim IRC Bot: -smiles ←
16:48:30 <Luc> rrsagent, set log public
Luc Moreau: rrsagent, set log public ←
16:48:32 <Zakim> -GK
Zakim IRC Bot: -GK ←
16:48:35 <Luc> rrsagent, draft minutes
Luc Moreau: rrsagent, draft minutes ←
16:48:35 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/01/03-prov-minutes.html Luc
RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/01/03-prov-minutes.html Luc ←
16:48:38 <Luc> trackbot, end telcon
Luc Moreau: trackbot, end telcon ←
16:48:38 <trackbot> Zakim, list attendees
Trackbot IRC Bot: Zakim, list attendees ←
16:48:38 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been Luc, Curt_Tilmes, pgroth, dgarijo, MacTed, smiles, GK, jcheney, +1.818.731.aaaa, stain, Paolo, khalidBelhajjame, [IPcaller]
Zakim IRC Bot: As of this point the attendees have been Luc, Curt_Tilmes, pgroth, dgarijo, MacTed, smiles, GK, jcheney, +1.818.731.aaaa, stain, Paolo, khalidBelhajjame, [IPcaller] ←
16:48:42 <Zakim> -??P17
Zakim IRC Bot: -??P17 ←
16:48:46 <trackbot> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
Trackbot IRC Bot: RRSAgent, please draft minutes ←
16:48:46 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/01/03-prov-minutes.html trackbot
RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/01/03-prov-minutes.html trackbot ←
16:48:47 <trackbot> RRSAgent, bye
Trackbot IRC Bot: RRSAgent, bye ←
16:48:47 <RRSAgent> I see 1 open action item saved in http://www.w3.org/2013/01/03-prov-actions.rdf :
RRSAgent IRC Bot: I see 1 open action item saved in http://www.w3.org/2013/01/03-prov-actions.rdf : ←
16:48:47 <RRSAgent> ACTION: pgroth to send reminder about implementation reports [1]
ACTION: pgroth to send reminder about implementation reports [1] ←
16:48:47 <RRSAgent> recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/01/03-prov-irc#T16-23-11
RRSAgent IRC Bot: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/01/03-prov-irc#T16-23-11 ←
Formatted by CommonScribe
This revision (#3) generated 2013-01-03 18:04:32 UTC by 'lmoreau', comments: None