Provenance Working Group Teleconference

Minutes of 22 December 2011

Agenda
http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/Meetings:Telecon2011.12.22
Seen
Christine Runnegar, Curt Tilmes, Daniel Garijo, James Cheney, Luc Moreau, Paolo Missier, Paul Groth, Satya Sahoo, Stephen Cresswell, Timothy Lebo, david schaengold
Chair
Paul Groth
Scribe
Paolo Missier
IRC Log
Original and Editable Wiki Version
Resolutions

None.

Topics
  1. Admin

    Approved the minutes of Dec 8 and Dec 15 telecon. Next telecon will be Jan. 5 2012

  2. Plan for Second Working Drafts

    PROV-AQ, PROV-DM and PROV-O presented outlines of their plans for the upcoming working drafts to the group. Overall, the aim is to have various revisions done before the end of January. PROV-O plans to be discussed in greater detail at the forthcoming telecon. PROV-O editors were encouraged to aim having all PROV-DM constructs represented. PROV-AQ editors will discuss with Tim Lebo the handling of provenance "pingback" mechanism and whether that gets included in the next working draft.

  3. Prov-sem

    James Cheney presented a draft of a formal semantics for PROV-DM and asked for input from the group.

  4. PROV-DM Identifiers

    editors of PROV-DM presented their recent changes that clarify the role of identifiers and how they relate to accounts. PROV-O team members were asked to see if this approach maps naturally to RDF named graphs and if so how. Tim Lebo said he would look at how the account examples map.

15:51:53 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/12/22-prov-irc

RRSAgent IRC Bot: logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/12/22-prov-irc

15:51:55 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world

Trackbot IRC Bot: RRSAgent, make logs world

15:51:57 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be

Trackbot IRC Bot: Zakim, this will be

15:51:57 <Zakim> I don't understand 'this will be', trackbot

Zakim IRC Bot: I don't understand 'this will be', trackbot

15:51:58 <trackbot> Meeting: Provenance Working Group Teleconference
15:51:58 <trackbot> Date: 22 December 2011
15:52:03 <pgroth> Zakim, this will be PROV

Paul Groth: Zakim, this will be PROV

15:52:03 <Zakim> ok, pgroth; I see SW_(PROV)11:00AM scheduled to start in 8 minutes

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, pgroth; I see SW_(PROV)11:00AM scheduled to start in 8 minutes

15:52:19 <pgroth> Agenda: http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/Meetings:Telecon2011.12.22
15:52:31 <pgroth> Chair: Paul Groth
15:52:45 <pgroth> Scribe: Paolo Missier

(Scribe set to Paolo Missier)

15:52:52 <pgroth> rrsagent, make logs public

Paul Groth: rrsagent, make logs public

15:56:36 <Zakim> SW_(PROV)11:00AM has now started

Zakim IRC Bot: SW_(PROV)11:00AM has now started

15:56:43 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]

Zakim IRC Bot: +[IPcaller]

15:56:56 <pgroth> Zakim, [IPcaller] is me

Paul Groth: Zakim, [IPcaller] is me

15:56:56 <Zakim> +pgroth; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +pgroth; got it

15:57:19 <Zakim> +??P1

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P1

15:57:37 <Paolo> zakim, ??p1 is me

zakim, ??p1 is me

15:57:37 <Zakim> +Paolo; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +Paolo; got it

15:57:43 <pgroth> thanks paolo

Paul Groth: thanks paolo

15:57:46 <pgroth> everything is setup

Paul Groth: everything is setup

15:59:16 <Zakim> +Curt_Tilmes

Zakim IRC Bot: +Curt_Tilmes

15:59:48 <Zakim> + +1.646.389.aaaa

Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.646.389.aaaa

16:00:22 <davidschaengold> Zakim, +1.646.389.aaaa is davidschaengold

david schaengold: Zakim, +1.646.389.aaaa is davidschaengold

16:00:22 <Zakim> +davidschaengold; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +davidschaengold; got it

16:00:51 <Zakim> +??P5

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P5

16:01:03 <Zakim> + +1.315.330.aabb

Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.315.330.aabb

16:01:21 <tlebo> zakim, aabb is tlebo

Timothy Lebo: zakim, aabb is tlebo

16:01:22 <Zakim> +tlebo; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +tlebo; got it

16:02:09 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]

Zakim IRC Bot: +[IPcaller]

16:02:18 <pgroth> Topic: Admin

1. Admin

Summary: Approved the minutes of Dec 8 and Dec 15 telecon. Next telecon will be Jan. 5 2012

<pgroth> Summary: Approved the minutes of Dec 8 and Dec 15 telecon. Next telecon will be Jan. 5 2012
16:02:29 <dgarijo> zakim, [IPcaller] is me

Daniel Garijo: zakim, [IPcaller] is me

16:02:29 <Zakim> +dgarijo; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +dgarijo; got it

16:02:48 <pgroth> http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/meeting/2011-12-08

Paul Groth: http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/meeting/2011-12-08

16:02:59 <pgroth> PROPOSED to accept the minutes of the Dec. 08 telecon

Paul Groth: PROPOSED to accept the minutes of the Dec. 08 telecon

16:03:13 <dgarijo> +1

Daniel Garijo: +1

16:03:15 <Curt> 0 (not present)

Curt Tilmes: 0 (not present)

16:03:16 <Paolo> +1

+1

16:03:18 <tlebo> +1

Timothy Lebo: +1

16:03:23 <davidschaengold> 0 (not present)

david schaengold: 0 (not present)

16:03:26 <jcheney> +1 minutes

James Cheney: +1 minutes

16:03:46 <pgroth> Accepted minutes Dec 8 telecon

Paul Groth: Accepted minutes Dec 8 telecon

16:03:51 <pgroth> http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/meeting/2011-12-15

Paul Groth: http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/meeting/2011-12-15

16:04:00 <pgroth> PROPOSED to accept the minutes of the Dec. 15 telecon

Paul Groth: PROPOSED to accept the minutes of the Dec. 15 telecon

16:04:01 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]

Zakim IRC Bot: +[IPcaller]

16:04:01 <dgarijo> +1

Daniel Garijo: +1

16:04:02 <Zakim> +[IPcaller.a]

Zakim IRC Bot: +[IPcaller.a]

16:04:04 <Curt> 0 (not present)

Curt Tilmes: 0 (not present)

16:04:06 <StephenCresswell> +1

Stephen Cresswell: +1

16:04:07 <Paolo> +1

+1

16:04:15 <tlebo> +1

Timothy Lebo: +1

16:04:20 <jcheney> +1 minutes

James Cheney: +1 minutes

16:04:25 <davidschaengold> 0 (not present)

david schaengold: 0 (not present)

16:04:31 <pgroth> Accepted minutes of the Dec 15 telecon

Paul Groth: Accepted minutes of the Dec 15 telecon

16:04:56 <Paolo> pgroth: next telecon Jan 5th

Paul Groth: next telecon Jan 5th

16:05:02 <pgroth> Topic: Plan for Second Working Drafts

2. Plan for Second Working Drafts

Summary: PROV-AQ, PROV-DM and PROV-O presented outlines of their plans for the upcoming working drafts to the group. Overall, the aim is to have various revisions done before the end of January. PROV-O plans to be discussed in greater detail at the forthcoming telecon. PROV-O editors were encouraged to aim having all PROV-DM constructs represented. PROV-AQ editors will discuss with Tim Lebo the handling of provenance "pingback" mechanism and whether that gets included in the next working draft.

<pgroth> Summary: PROV-AQ, PROV-DM and PROV-O presented outlines of their plans for the upcoming working drafts to the group. Overall, the aim is to have various revisions done before the end of January. PROV-O plans to be discussed in greater detail at the forthcoming telecon. PROV-O editors were encouraged to aim having all PROV-DM constructs represented. PROV-AQ editors will discuss with Tim Lebo the handling of provenance "pingback" mechanism and whether that gets included in the next working draft.
16:05:26 <pgroth> prov-aq

Paul Groth: prov-aq

16:05:33 <pgroth>  http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-prov-wg/2011Dec/0232.html

Paul Groth: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-prov-wg/2011Dec/0232.html

16:06:05 <Zakim> + +44.238.059.aacc

Zakim IRC Bot: + +44.238.059.aacc

16:08:31 <pgroth> +q

Paul Groth: +q

16:08:36 <pgroth> ack pgroth

Paul Groth: ack pgroth

16:08:38 <pgroth> q?

Paul Groth: q?

16:08:50 <Paolo> target for resolving issues on prov-aq: one week prior to F2F2

target for resolving issues on prov-aq: one week prior to F2F2

16:09:12 <tlebo> q+

Timothy Lebo: q+

16:09:21 <pgroth> ack tlebo

Paul Groth: ack tlebo

16:09:52 <Paolo> Tlebo: issue of advertising where to find provenance

Timothy Lebo: issue of advertising where to find provenance

16:10:12 <Paolo> Pgroth: to be addressed after 2nd WD

Paul Groth: to be addressed after 2nd WD

16:10:43 <Paolo> Tlebo: why so elaborate? one paragraph should suffice

Timothy Lebo: why so elaborate? one paragraph should suffice

16:11:22 <Paolo> Pgroth: GK thought it may be too much for this version of the draft.

Paul Groth: GK thought it may be too much for this version of the draft.

16:11:27 <pgroth> +q

Paul Groth: +q

16:11:29 <pgroth> ack pgroth

Paul Groth: ack pgroth

16:11:37 <Paolo> Tlebo: GK and I have scheduled a discussion for Jan.

Timothy Lebo: GK and I have scheduled a discussion for Jan.

16:12:07 <Paolo> Pgroth: anyone from PROV- primer? (no)

Paul Groth: anyone from PROV- primer? (no)

16:12:16 <Luc> http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/prov/raw-file/default/model/ProvenanceModel.html#changes-since-second-public-working-draft

Luc Moreau: http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/prov/raw-file/default/model/ProvenanceModel.html#changes-since-second-public-working-draft

16:12:30 <Paolo> Pgroth: PROV-DM plans for 3rd WD, asking Luc

Paul Groth: PROV-DM plans for 3rd WD, asking Luc

16:12:45 <Paolo> Luc: issues just posted have already been worked on

Luc Moreau: issues just posted have already been worked on

16:13:01 <Paolo> Luc: new section created where all constraints are collected

Luc Moreau: new section created where all constraints are collected

16:13:18 <Paolo> Luc: this gives constraints more space in the doc

Luc Moreau: this gives constraints more space in the doc

16:13:38 <Paolo> Luc: relations such as "wasComplementOf" reworked, Paolo sent a draft proposal

Luc Moreau: relations such as "wasComplementOf" reworked, Paolo sent a draft proposal

16:13:47 <Paolo> Luc: also reworked recipe -> plan

Luc Moreau: also reworked recipe -> plan

16:14:03 <Paolo> Luc: also tried to clarify "identifiers"

Luc Moreau: also tried to clarify "identifiers"

16:14:15 <Paolo> Luc: collections still being worked on (Paolo)

Luc Moreau: collections still being worked on (Paolo)

16:14:40 <Paolo> Luc: most issues raised in the tracked have been addressed. some will not happen (new example, request from Yolanda)

Luc Moreau: most issues raised in the tracked have been addressed. some will not happen (new example, request from Yolanda)

16:14:51 <Paolo> Luc: debate b/w ids and accounts still needed.

Luc Moreau: debate b/w ids and accounts still needed.

16:15:03 <Paolo> Luc: end of January target for next release (3rd WD)

Luc Moreau: end of January target for next release (3rd WD)

16:15:09 <pgroth> +q

Paul Groth: +q

16:15:13 <pgroth> ack pgroth

Paul Groth: ack pgroth

16:15:14 <Paolo> Luc: vote proposed around Jan 20th

Luc Moreau: vote proposed around Jan 20th

16:15:15 <pgroth> q?

Paul Groth: q?

16:15:34 <Paolo> <correct> end of January target for next release VOTE

<correct> end of January target for next release VOTE

16:16:15 <Paolo> Luc: need feedback. Will invite WG to review the whole doc by Jan 15th

Luc Moreau: need feedback. Will invite WG to review the whole doc by Jan 15th

16:16:22 <pgroth> q?

Paul Groth: q?

16:16:30 <Paolo> Luc: issue authors please comment o the state of your issues

Luc Moreau: issue authors please comment o the state of your issues

16:16:54 <dgarijo> I'm here, but I've been out this week.

Daniel Garijo: I'm here, but I've been out this week.

16:16:54 <Paolo> pgroth: plans for PROV-O?

Paul Groth: plans for PROV-O?

16:17:26 <Paolo> Satya: discussed org for next version, but no call this week

Satya Sahoo: discussed org for next version, but no call this week

16:17:51 <Paolo> Satya: discussed updating constraints part, following updates in PROV-DM.

Satya Sahoo: discussed updating constraints part, following updates in PROV-DM.

16:17:57 <Luc> q+

Luc Moreau: q+

16:18:07 <Paolo> Satya: no constraints were included in the first release, that will happen in the next

Satya Sahoo: no constraints were included in the first release, that will happen in the next

16:18:24 <Paolo> Satya: realigning recipe -> plan

Satya Sahoo: realigning recipe -> plan

16:18:37 <Paolo> Satya:  new complementOf proposal to be discussed in the next telco

Satya Sahoo: new complementOf proposal to be discussed in the next telco

16:18:52 <pgroth> ack luc

Paul Groth: ack luc

16:18:52 <Paolo> Satya: ditto for the data containers proposal (aka collections)

Satya Sahoo: ditto for the data containers proposal (aka collections)

16:19:02 <Paolo> Luc: timetable?

Luc Moreau: timetable?

16:20:11 <Paolo> Satya: reorg: Jan 10th target date. New features as discussed: around Jan 15-20

Satya Sahoo: reorg: Jan 10th target date. New features as discussed: around Jan 15-20

16:21:12 <Paolo> Satya: release of next version: around last week of Jan

Satya Sahoo: release of next version: around last week of Jan

16:21:49 <Paolo> Luc: concerned about focus on the constraints -- they may still evolve in PROV_DM depending on discussion outcomes

Luc Moreau: concerned about focus on the constraints -- they may still evolve in PROV_DM depending on discussion outcomes

16:22:24 <Paolo> Luc: lightweight vocabulary for all the PROV-DM is desirable, constraints to be added later after their defs settles

Luc Moreau: lightweight vocabulary for all the PROV-DM is desirable, constraints to be added later after their defs settles

16:23:09 <Paolo> Luc: F2F 2 will talk about interoperability, so encoding of the vocabulary is essential if we are to be able to do that

Luc Moreau: F2F 2 will talk about interoperability, so encoding of the vocabulary is essential if we are to be able to do that

16:23:43 <pgroth> q?

Paul Groth: q?

16:24:00 <Paolo> Satya: substantially agrees that all DM terms are reflected in -O

Satya Sahoo: substantially agrees that all DM terms are reflected in -O

16:24:30 <Paolo> Pgroth: please send out an update to the list after the next confcall with the new schedule

Paul Groth: please send out an update to the list after the next confcall with the new schedule

16:24:31 <pgroth> q?

Paul Groth: q?

16:24:46 <Paolo> Satya: will do -- also, all invited to the -O call

Satya Sahoo: will do -- also, all invited to the -O call

16:24:51 <pgroth> q

Paul Groth: q

16:24:53 <pgroth> q?

Paul Groth: q?

16:25:08 <pgroth> Topic: Prov-sem

3. Prov-sem

Summary: James Cheney presented a draft of a formal semantics for PROV-DM and asked for input from the group.

<pgroth> summary: James Cheney presented a draft of a formal semantics for PROV-DM and asked for input from the group.
16:25:16 <pgroth> http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/FormalSemanticsStrawman

Paul Groth: http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/FormalSemanticsStrawman

16:25:53 <Paolo> jcheney:  rearranged the structure and terminology following -DM

James Cheney: rearranged the structure and terminology following -DM

16:26:26 <Paolo> jcheney: instance of the DM viewed as a formula

James Cheney: instance of the DM viewed as a formula

16:26:55 <Paolo> jcheney:  "objects" with a lifetime, attributes. "objects" captures what is common to entities, activities, agents

James Cheney: "objects" with a lifetime, attributes. "objects" captures what is common to entities, activities, agents

16:27:17 <Paolo> jcheney:  events are instantaneous but they can have attributes as well, so they are objects as well

James Cheney: events are instantaneous but they can have attributes as well, so they are objects as well

16:28:19 <Paolo> jcheney: (presentation on semantics)

James Cheney: (presentation on semantics)

16:28:44 <Paolo> jcheney: not clear whether time interpretation is needed. GK suggested to avoid time, which may be possible and simpler

James Cheney: not clear whether time interpretation is needed. GK suggested to avoid time, which may be possible and simpler

16:29:34 <Paolo> jcheney:: some things may hold "at any time" (see complementOf)

James Cheney: : some things may hold "at any time" (see complementOf)

16:30:00 <Paolo> others depend on time if the mapping ids- >object is independent of time, then fewer things will depend on time in the model

others depend on time if the mapping ids- >object is independent of time, then fewer things will depend on time in the model

16:30:02 <pgroth> q?

Paul Groth: q?

16:30:13 <Luc> q+

Luc Moreau: q+

16:30:28 <pgroth> ack Luc

Paul Groth: ack Luc

16:30:38 <Paolo> del/others depend on time

del/others depend on time

16:31:19 <Paolo> Luc: this helps understanding the DM. what's the best way to discuss about specific points?

Luc Moreau: this helps understanding the DM. what's the best way to discuss about specific points?

16:32:23 <Paolo> jcheney: email the list. use actual issues for specific things

James Cheney: email the list. use actual issues for specific things

16:32:35 <pgroth> q?

Paul Groth: q?

16:32:37 <satya> q+

Satya Sahoo: q+

16:32:42 <Paolo> jcheney: e.g. the recent complementOf discussion was appropriately on the list

James Cheney: e.g. the recent complementOf discussion was appropriately on the list

16:32:43 <pgroth> ack satya

Paul Groth: ack satya

16:33:47 <Paolo> satya: time invariant/time dependent interpretations -- -DM is based mostly on events. are events going to replace time in -SEM?

Satya Sahoo: time invariant/time dependent interpretations -- -DM is based mostly on events. are events going to replace time in -SEM?

16:34:09 <pgroth> Zakim, who's noisy?

Paul Groth: Zakim, who's noisy?

16:34:24 <Zakim> pgroth, listening for 11 seconds I heard sound from the following: ??P5 (4%), +44.238.059.aacc (60%)

Zakim IRC Bot: pgroth, listening for 11 seconds I heard sound from the following: ??P5 (4%), +44.238.059.aacc (60%)

16:34:43 <pgroth> P5 can you mute?

Paul Groth: P5 can you mute?

16:34:50 <Paolo> jcheney:  time instants are arbitrary partial order. total order not needed. this maybe close to the notion of events in -DM

James Cheney: time instants are arbitrary partial order. total order not needed. this maybe close to the notion of events in -DM

16:35:49 <Zakim> + +1.518.633.aadd

Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.518.633.aadd

16:35:57 <Paolo> jcheney: ex: use, generation, activity start and end are events in -DM -- so events are associated with the specific relations and properties used in -DM

James Cheney: ex: use, generation, activity start and end are events in -DM -- so events are associated with the specific relations and properties used in -DM

16:37:11 <satya> @James- yes, that is something I would like to be considered and discussed

Satya Sahoo: @James- yes, that is something I would like to be considered and discussed

16:37:15 <pgroth> q?

Paul Groth: q?

16:37:21 <Paolo> jcheney: there is an assumption that events are instantaneous, however they may span a temporal interval. This would make them similar to activities, possibly those that cannot be decomposed. but this is premature

James Cheney: there is an assumption that events are instantaneous, however they may span a temporal interval. This would make them similar to activities, possibly those that cannot be decomposed. but this is premature

16:38:21 <Paolo> jcheney:  need feedback before moving on to additional sections

James Cheney: need feedback before moving on to additional sections

16:39:14 <Paolo> jcheney: complementarity is what it was prior to the latest discussion. It may not necessarily match the draft.

James Cheney: complementarity is what it was prior to the latest discussion. It may not necessarily match the draft.

16:39:39 <Paolo> jcheney: also added sections on the viewOf/foobar relations and tried to give them a formal meaning

James Cheney: also added sections on the viewOf/foobar relations and tried to give them a formal meaning

16:40:21 <Paolo> jcheney: viewOf anti-symmetric, lifetime containment, and relationship amongst the sets of attributes of the two entities

James Cheney: viewOf anti-symmetric, lifetime containment, and relationship amongst the sets of attributes of the two entities

16:40:53 <pgroth> type it

Paul Groth: type it

16:40:59 <Paolo> jcheney:  foobar (now changed to alternateOf)

James Cheney: foobar (now changed to alternateOf)

16:41:16 <Paolo> jcheney: also being updated

James Cheney: also being updated

16:43:30 <Paolo> jcheney: mismatch between a property like "two entity IDs describe the same entity" vs "two entity IDs are associated with two entity records about the same real world thing, but  which give different characterizationss"

James Cheney: mismatch between a property like "two entity IDs describe the same entity" vs "two entity IDs are associated with two entity records about the same real world thing, but which give different characterizationss"

16:43:56 <Paolo> jcheney: need further discussion over email

James Cheney: need further discussion over email

16:44:02 <pgroth> q?

Paul Groth: q?

16:44:43 <Luc> q+

Luc Moreau: q+

16:44:49 <pgroth> q-

Paul Groth: q-

16:44:54 <pgroth> ack Luc

Paul Groth: ack Luc

16:45:03 <Paolo> jcheney:  new recent changes in -DM regarding IDs of entity vs entity records should now be taken into account

James Cheney: new recent changes in -DM regarding IDs of entity vs entity records should now be taken into account

16:46:04 <Paolo> Luc: in -DM we have 3 levels:  things in the world, entities, and entity records. Their distinction is important. In the -SEM doc the same distinction ought to be made.

Luc Moreau: in -DM we have 3 levels: things in the world, entities, and entity records. Their distinction is important. In the -SEM doc the same distinction ought to be made.

16:46:55 <Paolo> jcheney: yes that pushes -SEM in the direction of having 3 levels rather than 2 (as it is now in -SEM)

James Cheney: yes that pushes -SEM in the direction of having 3 levels rather than 2 (as it is now in -SEM)

16:47:32 <pgroth> q?

Paul Groth: q?

16:48:29 <Paolo> pgroth: discuss identifiers or accounts?

Paul Groth: discuss identifiers or accounts?

16:48:40 <pgroth> Topic: PROV-DM Identifiers

4. PROV-DM Identifiers

Summary: editors of PROV-DM presented their recent changes that clarify the role of identifiers and how they relate to accounts. PROV-O team members were asked to see if this approach maps naturally to RDF named graphs and if so how. Tim Lebo said he would look at how the account examples map.

<pgroth> summary: editors of PROV-DM presented their recent changes that clarify the role of identifiers and how they relate to accounts. PROV-O team members were asked to see if this approach maps naturally to RDF named graphs and if so how. Tim Lebo said he would look at how the account examples map.
16:49:20 <Paolo> Luc: in -DM entities have identifiers, entity records include the ID of the entity, but we do not identify the entity record /itself/ using that same identifiers

Luc Moreau: in -DM entities have identifiers, entity records include the ID of the entity, but we do not identify the entity record /itself/ using that same identifiers

16:50:26 <pgroth> q?

Paul Groth: q?

16:50:49 <pgroth> q+

Paul Groth: q+

16:52:28 <Paolo> pgroth: id of an entity record -> account + entity Id. what's the implication from an access point of view?  there is no URL direclty for the entity record

Paul Groth: id of an entity record -> account + entity Id. what's the implication from an access point of view? there is no URL direclty for the entity record

16:52:59 <Paolo> Luc: there should be no impact on the PAQ

Luc Moreau: there should be no impact on the PAQ

16:53:43 <Paolo> entity records must be searched possibly across multiple accounts. this has always been the understanding of how access works

entity records must be searched possibly across multiple accounts. this has always been the understanding of how access works

16:54:11 <Paolo> pgroth: now we only indirectly reference an entity record

Paul Groth: now we only indirectly reference an entity record

16:54:14 <pgroth> q?

Paul Groth: q?

16:54:18 <pgroth> ack pgroth

Paul Groth: ack pgroth

16:54:41 <tlebo> pgroth, an "entity record" is a chunk of an RDF abstract graph. An entity is mentioned and described in that graph.

Timothy Lebo: pgroth, an "entity record" is a chunk of an RDF abstract graph. An entity is mentioned and described in that graph.

16:54:45 <Paolo> Luc: there was never a direct way to refer to entity records. it was always in the context of a given account

Luc Moreau: there was never a direct way to refer to entity records. it was always in the context of a given account

16:54:48 <pgroth> q?

Paul Groth: q?

16:55:17 <tlebo> +1 to avoid naming entity records.

Timothy Lebo: +1 to avoid naming entity records.

16:55:28 <pgroth> q?

Paul Groth: q?

16:55:32 <Paolo> Luc: we have never been keen on minting new IDs for every entity record created. Req. was to minimize burden on asserters

Luc Moreau: we have never been keen on minting new IDs for every entity record created. Req. was to minimize burden on asserters

16:56:03 <pgroth> q?

Paul Groth: q?

16:56:10 <tlebo> q+

Timothy Lebo: q+

16:56:18 <pgroth> ack tlebo

Paul Groth: ack tlebo

16:56:18 <Paolo> Luc: what do the SW people / PROV-O team think of accounts and how they can be mapped to SW constructs (eg named graphs)?

Luc Moreau: what do the SW people / PROV-O team think of accounts and how they can be mapped to SW constructs (eg named graphs)?

16:57:53 <Paolo> tlebo:  accounts are being mapped to NGs, it seems to map to "abstract graph" -- indep. of encoding, location,etc.

Timothy Lebo: accounts are being mapped to NGs, it seems to map to "abstract graph" -- indep. of encoding, location,etc.

16:57:55 <Christine> apologies .. I need to leave .. thank you Paul and Luc

Christine Runnegar: apologies .. I need to leave .. thank you Paul and Luc

16:58:03 <Zakim> -[IPcaller]

Zakim IRC Bot: -[IPcaller]

16:58:39 <Paolo> NGs are generally meant as graph containers. there is still some confusion on which interpretation of the NG should be used in this context

NGs are generally meant as graph containers. there is still some confusion on which interpretation of the NG should be used in this context

16:58:43 <satya> @Luc, sorry I have lost audio, will try to respond by mail to the updated account description in DM (an any points that Tim discusses regarding mapping to named graphs)

Satya Sahoo: @Luc, sorry I have lost audio, will try to respond by mail to the updated account description in DM (an any points that Tim discusses regarding mapping to named graphs)

16:59:50 <Luc> q+

Luc Moreau: q+

16:59:55 <pgroth> ack Luc

Paul Groth: ack Luc

17:00:06 <Paolo> will work off the concrete example in the id-accounts section in -DM

will work off the concrete example in the id-accounts section in -DM

17:00:21 <Paolo> Luc: can we focus on all the example of accounts found in the -DM doc?

Luc Moreau: can we focus on all the example of accounts found in the -DM doc?

17:00:39 <Paolo> to see what maps naturally and what doesn't

to see what maps naturally and what doesn't

17:01:23 <Paolo> Luc: account IDs are meant to be global, precisely to align with NG id convention

Luc Moreau: account IDs are meant to be global, precisely to align with NG id convention

17:02:12 <Zakim> + +1.443.708.aaee

Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.443.708.aaee

17:02:21 <Paolo> Tlebo:  SW does not provide global URIs for NG. some reconciliation will be needed

Timothy Lebo: SW does not provide global URIs for NG. some reconciliation will be needed

17:02:51 <Paolo> Luc: there is no obligation to encode account IDs are URIs

Luc Moreau: there is no obligation to encode account IDs are URIs

17:03:46 <pgroth> q?

Paul Groth: q?

17:04:04 <Zakim> -tlebo

Zakim IRC Bot: -tlebo

17:04:05 <Zakim> -dgarijo

Zakim IRC Bot: -dgarijo

17:04:06 <Zakim> -davidschaengold

Zakim IRC Bot: -davidschaengold

17:04:07 <Zakim> -[IPcaller.a]

Zakim IRC Bot: -[IPcaller.a]

17:04:10 <Zakim> -pgroth

Zakim IRC Bot: -pgroth

17:04:11 <Zakim> - +44.238.059.aacc

Zakim IRC Bot: - +44.238.059.aacc

17:04:12 <Zakim> - +1.443.708.aaee

Zakim IRC Bot: - +1.443.708.aaee

17:04:12 <Zakim> - +1.518.633.aadd

Zakim IRC Bot: - +1.518.633.aadd

17:04:14 <Zakim> -Paolo

Zakim IRC Bot: -Paolo

17:04:20 <Zakim> -Curt_Tilmes

Zakim IRC Bot: -Curt_Tilmes

17:04:22 <pgroth> rrsagent, set log public

Paul Groth: rrsagent, set log public

17:04:29 <pgroth> rrsagent, draft minutes

Paul Groth: rrsagent, draft minutes

17:04:29 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/12/22-prov-minutes.html pgroth

RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/12/22-prov-minutes.html pgroth

17:04:35 <pgroth> trackbot, end telecon

Paul Groth: trackbot, end telecon

17:04:35 <trackbot> Zakim, list attendees

Trackbot IRC Bot: Zakim, list attendees

17:04:35 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been pgroth, Paolo, Curt_Tilmes, pchampin, davidschaengold, +1.315.330.aabb, tlebo, dgarijo, [IPcaller], +44.238.059.aacc, +1.518.633.aadd,

Zakim IRC Bot: As of this point the attendees have been pgroth, Paolo, Curt_Tilmes, pchampin, davidschaengold, +1.315.330.aabb, tlebo, dgarijo, [IPcaller], +44.238.059.aacc, +1.518.633.aadd,

17:04:36 <trackbot> RRSAgent, please draft minutes

Trackbot IRC Bot: RRSAgent, please draft minutes

17:04:36 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/12/22-prov-minutes.html trackbot

RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/12/22-prov-minutes.html trackbot

17:04:37 <trackbot> RRSAgent, bye

Trackbot IRC Bot: RRSAgent, bye

17:04:37 <RRSAgent> I see no action items

RRSAgent IRC Bot: I see no action items

17:04:38 <Zakim> ... +1.443.708.aaee

Zakim IRC Bot: ... +1.443.708.aaee



Formatted by CommonScribe


This revision (#2) generated 2012-01-05 16:01:09 UTC by 'unknown', comments: 'remove pchampin handle'