Chatlog 2011-12-08

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15:00:16 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #gld
15:00:16 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/12/08-gld-irc
15:00:18 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
15:00:18 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #gld
15:00:20 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be EGOV_GLD
15:00:20 <Zakim> I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled within the next hour, trackbot
15:00:21 <trackbot> Meeting: Government Linked Data Working Group Teleconference
15:00:21 <trackbot> Date: 08 December 2011
15:00:26 <sandro> zakim, this is gld
15:00:26 <Zakim> ok, sandro; that matches T&S_GLDWG()10:00AM
15:00:34 <Yigal> Yigal has joined #gld
15:00:51 <Zakim> +raphael
15:00:51 <gatemezi> gatemezi has joined #gld
15:01:09 <Zakim> +??P21
15:01:11 <sandro> zakim, who is talking?
15:01:22 <Zakim> sandro, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: raphael (94%)
15:01:30 <Zakim> -??P21
15:01:32 <Zakim> +George_Thomas
15:01:47 <sandro> zakim, drop raphael
15:01:47 <sandro> scribe: fadmaa
15:01:47 <Zakim> raphael is being disconnected
15:01:49 <Zakim> -raphael
15:01:53 <bhyland> zakim, who is on the call?
15:01:53 <Zakim> On the phone I see +030014aaaa, BernHyland, sandro, George_Thomas
15:01:57 <sandro> zakim, this is gld
15:01:57 <Zakim> sandro, this was already T&S_GLDWG()10:00AM
15:01:58 <Zakim> ok, sandro; that matches T&S_GLDWG()10:00AM
15:01:58 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
15:02:05 <sandro> zakim, who is talking?
15:02:08 <George> George has joined #gld
15:02:15 <Yigal> zakim, IPcaller is me
15:02:15 <Zakim> +Yigal; got it
15:02:16 <Zakim> sandro, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: +030014aaaa (18%), BernHyland (31%), [IPcaller] (10%), George_Thomas (77%)
15:02:19 <tgheen> tgheen has joined #gld
15:02:42 <bhyland> zakim, aaaa is fadmaa
15:02:42 <Zakim> +fadmaa; got it
15:02:45 <Zakim> +??P22
15:03:06 <Zakim> +[LC]
15:03:11 <BartvanLeeuwen> Zakim, ??P22 is me
15:03:11 <Zakim> +BartvanLeeuwen; got it
15:03:17 <fadmaa> agenda: http://www.w3.org/2011/gld/wiki/Meetings:Telecon2011.12.08
15:05:11 <fadmaa> Topic: DCAT/ADMS breakout session
15:05:32 <fadmaa> George: there is a link to the ADMS/dcat discussion 
15:05:41 <fadmaa> ...http://www.w3.org/2011/gld/meeting/2011-11-28
15:05:57 <George> https://www.w3.org/2011/gld/group/WD-DCAT-20111218.html
15:06:26 <Zakim> + +1.703.362.aabb
15:06:45 <Zakim> +raphael
15:06:57 <fadmaa> ...Martin suggested a new property to indicate direct access 
15:07:21 <fadmaa> ...of dcat:Distribution 
15:07:26 <annew> annew has joined #gld
15:08:44 <George> http://www.w3.org/2011/gld/meeting/2011-11-17
15:08:52 <fadmaa> ...minutes of the last telcon http://www.w3.org/2011/gld/meeting/2011-11-17
15:09:07 <fadmaa> PROPOSED: accept minutes
15:09:22 <BartvanLeeuwen> +1 for minutes
15:09:24 <Yigal> +1 accept minutes
15:09:28 <fadmaa> bhyland: F2F2 will be in two locations
15:09:36 <fadmaa> ...Ireland and Washington DC
15:09:39 <bhyland> +1
15:09:49 <gatemezi> +1
15:09:49 <cygri> cygri has joined #gld
15:09:59 <bhyland> s/bernaddet/bhylabd
15:10:10 <bhyland> s/bhylabd/bhyland
15:10:11 <fadmaa> s/bernaddet/bhyland/
15:10:59 <fadmaa> RESOLVED: minutes accepted
15:11:23 <fadmaa> Topic: vocab.data.gov
15:11:51 <fadmaa> George: data.gov plans to deploy DERI neologism
15:12:01 <Zakim> +cygri
15:12:02 <George> http://neologism.deri.ie/
15:12:03 <fadmaa> ...for vocabulary management
15:12:37 <fadmaa> ...Neologism is open source platform for vocabulary management http://neologism.deri.ie/
15:12:41 <George> http://vocab.deri.ie/
15:13:03 <fadmaa> ...Richard raised a couple of questions and provided some guidance 
15:14:05 <fadmaa> ...the intention is to have internal and external vocabularies
15:14:27 <fadmaa> ...some issues were raised regarding authors for example
15:14:38 <DruidSmith> DruidSmith has joined #gld
15:14:45 <George> vocab.deri.org/void
15:14:55 <fadmaa> ...neologism assume its users as authors. not true for external vocabularies like void
15:15:00 <George> vocab.data.gov/void
15:15:54 <fadmaa> ...generally, there is no problem from data.gov perspective
15:16:18 <fadmaa> ...some work around can be utilized  
15:16:26 <DruidSmith_> DruidSmith_ has joined #gld
15:16:42 <bhyland> q+
15:16:43 <fadmaa> ...the main goal of vocab.data.gov is cataloging vocabularies rather than managing them and supporting the full life cycle 
15:17:14 <fadmaa> bhyland: who will be the maintainer? how will the logistics be?
15:17:23 <Zakim> + +1.202.566.aacc
15:17:34 <DruidSmith_> zakim, aacc is me
15:17:34 <Zakim> +DruidSmith_; got it
15:17:48 <BartvanLeeuwen> +q
15:18:25 <fadmaa> George: a couple of people will be managing it in a lightweight manner.. they will be the point of contact
15:18:32 <cygri> q+
15:18:51 <fadmaa> ...users will request support and adding vocabularies through the contact people
15:18:51 <George> ack bhyland
15:18:57 <Zakim> -cygri
15:19:06 <George> q?
15:19:22 <fadmaa> BartvanLeeuwen: I like neologism... my problem with it is that it is very slow
15:19:31 <Zakim> +cygri
15:19:46 <fadmaa> ...responsiveness is very slow. wondering if there is enhancements
15:20:24 <fadmaa> cygri: we experienced slow responsiveness on vocab.deri.ie
15:20:41 <BartvanLeeuwen> q-
15:20:45 <fadmaa> ...most of it was solved and the situation had been improved to an accceptable degree
15:20:48 <bhyland> George: the points on contact for adding vocabs to vocab.data.gov will be George Thomas and Chris Musialek.
15:21:25 <BartvanLeeuwen> q+
15:21:35 <bhyland> cygri: Neologism is a fairly light application, performance is "good enough", it isn't meant to be mission critical (?)
15:22:06 <fadmaa> cygri: any plans to support editing vocabularies on vocab.data.gov?
15:22:20 <fadmaa> George: initially it will mainly be used as a catalogue
15:22:39 <fadmaa> ...to have a place where people can make their vocabularies visible
15:22:50 <bhyland> George: vocab.data.gov is intended to provide a place to make vocabs more visible.  It isn't intended to be a place for maintenance of vocabs.  It is a directory listing.
15:23:00 <fadmaa> ...do not expect people to be using it for actual creation and editing
15:24:00 <bhyland> q+
15:24:04 <cygri> ack me
15:24:22 <George> ack bhyland
15:25:08 <fadmaa> bhyland: do we want to recommend on incorporating tools 
15:25:47 <Zakim> +??P37
15:25:48 <fadmaa> ...especially with tools that might not be commercially supported
15:26:12 <fadmaa> ...maintinance might be an issue.
15:26:18 <annew> annew is on SIP
15:27:03 <fadmaa> cygri: I have experience with working on tools in the course of research academic projects
15:27:24 <bhyland> cygri: I feel that it's important to make a statement of usability, maintenance, support for a given tool. 
15:27:28 <Yigal> But how do we know what the current and future plans for such a tool are?
15:27:31 <fadmaa> ...it is important to make the status of the project and its level of support very clear 
15:28:09 <bhyland> cygri: There are various ways to characterize this in objective ways, e.g., when was it release, how often is it updated, how many posts to the mailing list, etc that all give an indication of whether a healthy community exists.
15:28:11 <fadmaa> ...some simple measures can help. looking at the number of releases, its mailing list, etc.
15:28:18 <Zakim> + +91.80.49.06.aadd
15:28:34 <bhyland> cygri: If external funding went into the project, that is also a good sign.
15:29:14 <bhyland> +1 agree with cygri and think the GLD WG should provide guidance on this topic.  
15:29:19 <fadmaa> ...to summarize, if you make recommendation on a tool it is worth spending time on documenting the status of the project
15:30:25 <George> q?
15:30:43 <fadmaa> bhyland: shall we add this to other places like the cook book, the vocabulary...?
15:31:01 <BartvanLeeuwen> q-
15:31:12 <Yigal> I think a pre-defined checklist would be a good idea, because it would help ensure a standard for evaluation.
15:31:15 <Biplav> Biplav has joined #gld
15:31:47 <fadmaa> cygri: I will send an email with a list of bullet points outlining the main points to look at
15:31:49 <BartvanLeeuwen> cygri, could you share a link where I can find some information on the performance tuning you described earlier ?
15:32:05 <fadmaa> sandro: this sounds relevant to procurement
15:32:24 <annew> q+
15:32:47 <bhyland> George: Suggested that the "tools viability" checklist should go in the Procurement section of the Best Practices Deliverable.
15:32:54 <fadmaa> BartvanLeeuwen: is there a pointer to how to tune neologism performance?
15:33:11 <fadmaa> cygri: I suggest sending an email to neologism mailing list 
15:33:16 <annew> on no mic failure
15:33:21 <annew> I'll ask by chat
15:33:34 <annew> The issues seem to be about stability!!
15:33:38 <bhyland> zakim, mute annew
15:33:38 <Zakim> sorry, bhyland, I do not know which phone connection belongs to annew
15:33:50 <annew> Welcome the comments about signs of stability for projects
15:34:08 <annew> I am muted
15:34:09 <bhyland> zakim, who is on the call?
15:34:09 <Zakim> On the phone I see fadmaa, BernHyland, sandro, George_Thomas, Yigal, BartvanLeeuwen, [LC], +1.703.362.aabb, raphael, DruidSmith_, cygri, ??P37, +91.80.49.06.aadd
15:34:13 <cygri> ACTION: cygri to write some bullet points re viability of open source/academic tools/services for procurement section of best practices deliverable
15:34:14 <Biplav> Biplav here. I joined on the call after resolving my logistics issue. Also had an update on my action item. I have added my inputs for Action item 19 and updated the tracker to "Pending Review". 
15:34:14 <trackbot> Created ACTION-25 - Write some bullet points re viability of open source/academic tools/services for procurement section of best practices deliverable [on Richard Cyganiak - due 2011-12-15].
15:34:23 <Biplav> And I am on mute
15:34:36 <tgheen> Zakim, [LC] is me
15:34:36 <Zakim> +tgheen; got it
15:34:57 <annew> I am on voip
15:35:15 <bhyland> zakim, aadd is biplav
15:35:15 <Zakim> +biplav; got it
15:35:54 <fadmaa> Topic: Procurement
15:36:10 <fadmaa> bhyland: people who are working on that are not here
15:36:35 <fadmaa> ...suggest defering details till next week
15:37:52 <fadmaa> George: we might have some discussion about defining objective criteria to assess stability of projects
15:38:42 <fadmaa> bhyland: some people are working on what kind of guidance W3C can provide to people working on procurment
15:38:51 <fadmaa> ...we took licence out of the scope
15:39:31 <sandro> s/sandro/george/
15:39:55 <annew> is there someone in an airport or train station?
15:40:03 <sandro> zakim, who is talking?
15:40:14 <Zakim> sandro, listening for 10 seconds I could not identify any sounds
15:40:19 <gatemezi> Here, they provide a list of tools for data publication and consumption http://www4.wiwiss.fu-berlin.de/latc/toollibrary/
15:40:24 <sandro> zakim, who is on the call?
15:40:24 <Zakim> On the phone I see fadmaa, BernHyland, sandro, George_Thomas, Yigal, BartvanLeeuwen, tgheen, +1.703.362.aabb, raphael, DruidSmith_, cygri, ??P37, biplav
15:40:31 <sandro> zakim, who is on the call?
15:40:31 <Zakim> On the phone I see fadmaa, BernHyland, sandro, George_Thomas, Yigal, BartvanLeeuwen, tgheen, +1.703.362.aabb, raphael, DruidSmith_, cygri, ??P37, biplav
15:40:33 <sandro> zakim, who is talking?
15:40:44 <Zakim> sandro, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: raphael (4%)
15:40:51 <bhyland> q+
15:40:53 <fadmaa> @George sorry couldn't hear you
15:40:56 <fadmaa> it was noisy
15:41:09 <Zakim> + +1.202.208.aaee
15:41:25 <fadmaa> bhyland: I'd rather avoid listing tools
15:41:31 <annew> zakim ??P37 is annew
15:41:38 <sandro> q+
15:41:44 <fadmaa> ...but suggest focus on list of features and a checklist
15:42:05 <annew> q-
15:42:05 <fadmaa> ...the commercially supported product are more in the scope of the community directory
15:42:52 <fadmaa> ...procurment people working on Linked Data need more help with aspects like security
15:43:05 <fadmaa> ...and other list of features 
15:43:14 <bhyland> ack bhyland
15:43:43 <fadmaa> sandro: I do not support listing products
15:44:08 <cygri> q+
15:44:17 <cygri> q+ to ask about how technical this should get
15:44:23 <bhyland> Sandro: Recommend we list product "categories", defined by TimBL's 4 data principles.
15:44:23 <fadmaa> ...but generally we list functionality that the product should support
15:44:34 <annew> +1 to sandro
15:44:35 <bhyland> Sandro: Avoid listing specific products by name.
15:44:36 <fadmaa> ...e.g. support SPARQL, resolvable URIs
15:45:29 <cygri> q?
15:46:16 <sandro> q-
15:46:38 <fadmaa> cygri: how technical should the procurement document be?
15:47:03 <Zakim> - +1.703.362.aabb
15:47:07 <fadmaa> ...what level of details need to be in it?
15:47:35 <bhyland> cygri: Who is the audience?  A technical evaluator or business manager?
15:47:45 <fadmaa> George: procurement report is mainly for project manager
15:48:06 <fadmaa> ...help them when deciding to buy a product
15:48:48 <fadmaa> bhyland: two group of people are involved.  technical people and manager
15:48:51 <annew> q+
15:49:05 <cygri> ack me
15:49:05 <Zakim> cygri, you wanted to ask about how technical this should get
15:49:14 <fadmaa> ...we need both general guidelines and technical details
15:49:54 <gatemezi> @bhyland: bhadley organization is linkedgov.org
15:50:06 <sandro> q+
15:50:18 <Zakim> + +1.703.362.aaff
15:50:20 <Yigal> If anyone is still wondering about Hadley's project, it's linkedgov.org
15:50:28 <fadmaa> ...I think  there should be a list of checklist for business people
15:51:35 <fadmaa> ChrisMusialek: I have experience with the procurement process. typically it does not go to the technical details
15:51:52 <cygri> zakim, who is speaking?
15:52:03 <Zakim> cygri, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: +1.202.208.aaee (91%), raphael (26%)
15:52:05 <bhyland> ChrisMusialek: I've seen very general guidance.  It doesn't get into the very technical details, it doesn't make sense to prescribe to that level of granularity.  Typically, the people writing those RFI/RFPs, they aren't very technical.
15:52:10 <fadmaa> ...in the procurement document technical details are not mentioned as they are usually not written by developers
15:52:19 <bhyland> zakim aaee is Chris
15:52:43 <cygri> zakim, aaee is Chris
15:52:43 <Zakim> +Chris; got it
15:52:55 <bhyland> @Fadmaa, that was Chris Musialek from US GSA speaking
15:53:14 <fadmaa> @bhyland thanks wil lcorrect that
15:53:28 <ChrisMusialek> ChrisMusialek has joined #gld
15:53:30 <sandro> sandro: So, I'm imagining that for each item on the checklist (eg 4-principles, sparql, etc), there's reference to the spec, some additional detail where the spec has too much wiggle room, maybe a reference to test suite, and some justification/explanation for this check list item.
15:54:08 <fadmaa> sandro: having  a list with links to standards containing more details
15:54:22 <fadmaa> s/list/checklist/
15:54:58 <annew> I've got to go. Can't tell if you could actually hear me or not on this call.
15:55:10 <annew> Will send an email about stability that I have been working on 
15:55:13 <annew> Ron 's been helpful too
15:55:14 <annew> bye
15:55:15 <sandro> annew, I never heard your voice....
15:55:18 <Zakim> -??P37
15:55:32 <fadmaa> ACTION: bhyland to pull the list of things to check and notify the group
15:55:32 <trackbot> Created ACTION-26 - Pull the list of things to check and notify the group [on Bernadette Hyland - due 2011-12-15].
15:55:44 <fadmaa> TOPIC: F2F2
15:55:49 <George> http://www.w3.org/2011/gld/wiki/F2F2
15:56:15 <fadmaa> George: wiki page about F2F2 http://www.w3.org/2011/gld/wiki/F2F2
15:56:32 <Biplav> @bhyland please review update on action item 19 and close. Thanks.
15:57:16 <fadmaa> bhyland: we do have to work on agenda
15:57:48 <fadmaa> cygri: Michael will be the point of contact
15:58:00 <fadmaa> ...for the F2F meeting in Ireland
15:58:16 <fadmaa> ...no capability of video conferencing
15:58:49 <fadmaa> bhyland: chairs will be working on logistics... input is welcome on agenda
15:59:07 <Zakim> - +1.703.362.aaff
15:59:20 <fadmaa> George: procurement discussion will be continued next week
16:00:06 <fadmaa> bhyland: next week might be our last meeting this year or shall we have another one?
16:00:13 <sandro> no for 22nd, okay for 29th
16:00:13 <Biplav> +1
16:00:38 <gatemezi> ok for 22nd 
16:00:45 <Biplav> ok for 22nd
16:00:46 <cygri> i'm ok with 22nd
16:00:49 <Yigal> OK for 22nd
16:00:52 <BartvanLeeuwen> okay bye
16:00:57 <bhyland> Thanks all!
16:01:01 <Zakim> -biplav
16:01:02 <fadmaa> rrsagent, generate minutes
16:01:02 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/12/08-gld-minutes.html fadmaa
16:01:05 <Zakim> -cygri
16:01:07 <Zakim> -sandro
16:01:15 <Zakim> -George_Thomas
16:01:16 <Yigal> Yigal has left #gld
16:01:17 <Zakim> -BernHyland
16:01:19 <Zakim> -Yigal
16:01:21 <Zakim> -BartvanLeeuwen
16:01:23 <Zakim> -ChrisMusialek
16:01:25 <Zakim> -tgheen
16:01:28 <gatemezi> -gatemezi
16:01:31 <Zakim> -raphael
16:01:35 <Zakim> -DruidSmith_
16:01:53 <Zakim> -fadmaa
16:01:55 <Zakim> T&S_GLDWG()10:00AM has ended
16:01:57 <Zakim> Attendees were +030014aaaa, BernHyland, sandro, raphael, George_Thomas, Yigal, fadmaa, BartvanLeeuwen, +1.703.362.aabb, cygri, +1.202.566.aacc, DruidSmith_, +91.80.49.06.aadd,
16:02:00 <Zakim> ... tgheen, biplav, +1.202.208.aaee, +1.703.362.aaff, ChrisMusialek
16:04:53 <bhyland> zakim, aadd is Biplav
16:05:47 <Zakim> sorry, bhyland, I do not recognize a party named 'aadd'
16:09:22 <fadmaa> rrsagent, generate minutes
16:09:22 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/12/08-gld-minutes.html fadmaa
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