Chatlog 2012-11-29

See original RRSAgent log or preview nicely formatted version.

Please justify/explain all edits to this page, in your "edit summary" text.

14:59:55 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #gld
14:59:55 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/11/29-gld-irc
14:59:57 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
14:59:57 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #gld
14:59:59 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be GLD
14:59:59 <Zakim> ok, trackbot, I see T&S_GLDWG()10:00AM already started
15:00:00 <trackbot> Meeting: Government Linked Data Working Group Teleconference
15:00:00 <trackbot> Date: 29 November 2012
15:00:02 <DeirdreLee> DeirdreLee has joined #GLD
15:00:26 <jmynarz> jmynarz has joined #gld
15:00:36 <agipap> agipap has joined #gld
15:00:43 <Zakim> +Sandro
15:00:53 <Zakim> + +33.4.93.00.aabb
15:00:54 <Zakim> +??P32
15:01:05 <BartvanLeeuwen> Zakim, ??p32 is me
<bart> guest: Serafin Olcoz
15:01:05 <Zakim> +BartvanLeeuwen; got it
15:01:11 <Zakim> +MHausenblas
15:01:30 <cygri> zakim, i'm with mhausenblas
15:01:30 <Zakim> +cygri; got it
15:01:34 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
<bart> topic: Opening
15:01:35 <bhyland> Thanks to all of those who completed the Doodle poll already, see http://doodle.com/3w7wnzy45ehn7iqi
15:01:40 <bhyland> for the next F2F
15:01:49 <atemezin> Zakim, +33.4.93.00.aabb is me
15:01:49 <Zakim> +atemezin; got it
15:01:56 <BenediktKaempgen> BenediktKaempgen has joined #gld
15:01:57 <Zakim> +??P39
15:02:03 <james> james has joined #gld
15:02:06 <BartvanLeeuwen> scribenick: BartvanLeeuwen
15:02:18 <james> who's on the call?
15:02:20 <agipap> zakim, +??P39 is me
15:02:20 <Zakim> sorry, agipap, I do not recognize a party named '+??P39'
15:02:23 <bhyland> zakim, who is on the call?
15:02:23 <Zakim> On the phone I see davidwood, ??P21, +3539149aaaa, Sandro, atemezin, BartvanLeeuwen, MHausenblas, [IPcaller], ??P39
15:02:25 <Zakim> MHausenblas has cygri
15:02:30 <bhyland> zakim, davidwood is me
15:02:30 <Zakim> +bhyland; got it
15:02:33 <Zakim> +??P36
15:02:52 <jpalmeida> jpalmeida has joined #gld
15:02:56 <BenediktKaempgen> zakim, who is here?
15:02:56 <Zakim> On the phone I see bhyland, ??P21, +3539149aaaa, Sandro, atemezin, BartvanLeeuwen, MHausenblas, [IPcaller], ??P39, ??P36
15:02:56 <Zakim> MHausenblas has cygri
15:02:58 <Zakim> On IRC I see jpalmeida, james, BenediktKaempgen, agipap, jmynarz, DeirdreLee, Zakim, RRSAgent, DaveReynolds, mhausenblas, atemezin, makx, BartvanLeeuwen, bhyland, Olcoz, MacTed,
15:02:58 <Zakim> ... cygri, trackbot, sandro
15:03:05 <bhyland> zakim, ??P21 is makx
15:03:05 <Zakim> +makx; got it
15:03:11 <agipap> zakim ??P39 is me
15:03:13 <olyerickson1> olyerickson1 has joined #gld
15:03:21 <agipap> zakim, ??P39 is me
15:03:21 <Zakim> +agipap; got it
15:03:24 <martinAlvarez> martinAlvarez has joined #gld
15:03:29 <BenediktKaempgen> zakim, ?P36 is BenediktKaempgen
15:03:29 <Zakim> sorry, BenediktKaempgen, I do not recognize a party named '?P36'
15:03:37 <BenediktKaempgen> zakim, ??P36 is BenediktKaempgen
15:03:37 <Zakim> +BenediktKaempgen; got it
15:03:40 <james> who's on the call?
15:03:48 <cygri> zakim, who is here?
15:03:48 <Zakim> On the phone I see bhyland, makx, +3539149aaaa, Sandro, atemezin, BartvanLeeuwen, MHausenblas, [IPcaller], agipap, BenediktKaempgen
15:03:50 <Zakim> MHausenblas has cygri
15:03:50 <Zakim> On IRC I see martinAlvarez, olyerickson1, jpalmeida, james, BenediktKaempgen, agipap, jmynarz, DeirdreLee, Zakim, RRSAgent, DaveReynolds, mhausenblas, atemezin, makx,
15:03:50 <Zakim> ... BartvanLeeuwen, bhyland, Olcoz, MacTed, cygri, trackbot, sandro
15:03:50 <Zakim> +[IPcaller.a]
15:04:00 <GofranShu> GofranShu has joined #GLD
15:04:08 <bhyland> topic: Review & approval of minutes http://www.w3.org/2011/gld/meeting/2012-11-08
15:04:12 <BartvanLeeuwen> bhyland, do a quick minute review
15:04:16 <cygri> zakim, who is noisy?
15:04:18 <bhyland> chair: bhyland
15:04:26 <bhyland> scribe: bartvanLeeuwen
15:04:27 <Zakim> cygri, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: bhyland (20%), atemezin (24%)
15:04:32 <BenediktKaempgen> zakim, mute me
15:04:32 <Zakim> BenediktKaempgen should now be muted
15:04:55 <Zakim> +??P42
15:05:14 <olyerickson1> Zakim, ??P42 is me.
15:05:14 <Zakim> +olyerickson1; got it
15:05:16 <Zakim> +??P45
15:05:31 <Zakim> + +3539149aacc
15:05:39 <Zakim> +??P48
15:05:45 <martinAlvarez> zakim, ??p48 is me
15:05:45 <Zakim> +martinAlvarez; got it
15:05:51 <jmynarz> Zakim, ??P45 is me.
15:05:51 <Zakim> +jmynarz; got it
15:06:12 <Olcoz> Hi
15:06:17 <bhyland> zakim, who is on the call?
15:06:17 <Zakim> On the phone I see bhyland, makx, +3539149aaaa, Sandro, atemezin, BartvanLeeuwen, MHausenblas, james, agipap, BenediktKaempgen (muted), DaveReynolds, olyerickson1, jmynarz,
15:06:20 <Zakim> ... +3539149aacc, martinAlvarez
15:06:20 <Zakim> MHausenblas has cygri
15:06:31 <Olcoz> I am trying to join you by phone but I can not yet
15:06:35 <martinAlvarez> zakim, mute me
15:06:35 <Zakim> martinAlvarez should now be muted
15:06:47 <tinagheen> tinagheen has joined #gld
15:07:02 <Zakim> +[LC]
15:07:06 <BartvanLeeuwen> bhyland: did we move ADMS into FPWD ?
15:07:07 <sandro> http://www.w3.org/2011/gld/meeting/2012-10-25
15:07:11 <tinagheen> Zakim, [LC] is me
15:07:11 <Zakim> +tinagheen; got it
15:07:31 <cygri> my recollection matches sandro's
15:07:47 <olyerickson1> +1 minutes
15:07:48 <Zakim> + +34.68.867.aadd
15:07:49 <atemezin> +1
15:07:53 <BartvanLeeuwen> bhyland: DeirdreLee will track with Phila the ADMS Status
15:07:55 <makx> +1
15:07:57 <agipap> +1
15:07:57 <BartvanLeeuwen> +1
15:07:58 <BenediktKaempgen> +1
15:08:01 <Olcoz> Hi
15:08:02 <bhyland> approved
15:08:07 <Olcoz> I already join you
15:08:24 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
15:08:27 <Olcoz> Serafin Olcpoz
15:08:29 <Olcoz> Olcoz
15:08:33 <jpalmeida> I am IPcaller
15:08:53 <cygri> zakim, [IPcaller] is jpalmeida
15:08:53 <Zakim> +jpalmeida; got it
15:09:23 <bhyland> Topic: recap of conferences that members attended ...
15:09:50 <bhyland> ADMS presented by Gofran COLD workshop at ISWC 2012 (Boston)
15:09:57 <sandro> speakerphone noise....?
15:10:00 <bhyland> zakim, who is speaking?
15:10:11 <Zakim> bhyland: listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: bhyland (12%), makx (27%), Sandro (54%), atemezin (33%), +3539149aacc (13%)
15:10:18 <atemezin> Zakim, mute me
15:10:18 <Zakim> atemezin should now be muted
15:10:33 <bhyland> zakim, aacc is Gofran
15:10:33 <Zakim> +Gofran; got it
15:10:33 <cygri> zakim, aacc is GofranShu
15:10:34 <Zakim> sorry, cygri, I do not recognize a party named 'aacc'
15:10:50 <BartvanLeeuwen> GofranShu: presented ADMS at COLD workshop during ISWC 2012 Boston
15:11:03 <BartvanLeeuwen> GofranShu: talked about who is behind it
15:11:11 <BartvanLeeuwen> GofranShu: and the API she did for it
15:11:51 <bhyland> q?
15:11:52 <BartvanLeeuwen> bhyland: if you've been to conferences please share slides
15:12:52 <BartvanLeeuwen> bhyland: majority of ISWC visitors european and asian
15:13:02 <BartvanLeeuwen> bhyland: lot about linked data in poster sessions
15:13:39 <BartvanLeeuwen> bhyland: industry track, 3 sessions in parallel with a lot of uptake
15:14:30 <atemezin> Our group here won the Semantic Web Challenge with EventMedia Live..See the demo of our tool here: http://eventmedia.eurecom.fr/demo.html
15:15:12 <bhyland> q?
15:15:30 <BartvanLeeuwen> DeirdreLee: 2 open data events last week in Ireland
15:15:51 <BartvanLeeuwen> DeirdreLee: 1) Data to drive innovation, by dublin open data portal
15:16:09 <bhyland> bhyland: ISWC2012 (Boston), the program is here http://iswc2012.semanticweb.org/program
15:16:18 <BartvanLeeuwen> DeirdreLee: first Irish opendata where central government talked about open data policy
15:16:39 <BartvanLeeuwen> DeirdreLee: 2) Open data meetup, community event, mixed crowd
15:16:59 <Zakim> +??P51
15:17:03 <Zakim> - +34.68.867.aadd
15:17:15 <DeirdreLee> http://data.fingal.ie/Blog/November2012/Name,36164,en.aspx
15:17:23 <atemezin> Also I presented my work on Geodata and the current movement in France to expose their data as RDF at Terra Cognita ..http://www.strabon.di.uoa.gr/terracognita/papers/terra12_submission_1.pdf
15:17:33 <BartvanLeeuwen> topic: RegOrg
15:17:41 <bhyland> http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/gld/raw-file/default/legal/index.html
15:19:09 <BartvanLeeuwen> who is talking ?
15:19:22 <sandro> bhyland, I thought I was talking about org process not regorg process.
15:19:25 <bhyland> agipap whose first name is Agis
15:19:27 <sandro> it's agipap
15:19:38 <BartvanLeeuwen> agipap: 3 dimensions on review
15:19:51 <BartvanLeeuwen> agipap: 1 ) Issue-41 , Issue-46 and Issue-47
15:20:01 <atemezin> Issue 41: http://www.w3.org/2011/gld/track/issues/41
15:20:06 <BartvanLeeuwen> agipap:  2) lengthy comments on the mailing list
15:20:09 <bhyland> [1] http://www.w3.org/2011/gld/track/issues/41
15:20:09 <bhyland> [2] http://www.w3.org/2011/gld/track/issues/46
15:20:09 <bhyland> [3] http://www.w3.org/2011/gld/track/issues/47
15:20:30 <BenediktKaempgen> Agis Papantoniou
15:20:41 <BartvanLeeuwen> Issue-46
15:21:13 <Yigal> Yigal has joined #gld
15:22:50 <sandro> issue-46?
15:22:50 <trackbot> ISSUE-46 -- Should GLD vocabularies define conceptual models too? -- raised
15:22:50 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2011/gld/track/issues/46
15:23:03 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
15:23:16 <Yigal> zakim, IPcaller is me
15:23:16 <Zakim> +Yigal; got it
15:23:27 <bhyland> cygri: Concern is that the RegOrg is written as a conceptual model w/ UML diagram vs. as a RDF centric model
15:24:21 <bhyland> cygri … questions why this is the case since the wg's focus is RDF and the docs should reflect that ...
15:24:24 <BartvanLeeuwen> cygri: its not in our charter to do general model,
15:25:14 <BartvanLeeuwen> cygri: its now represented in a way it is hard for RDF people to figure out how to model
15:25:37 <bhyland> q?
15:25:43 <BartvanLeeuwen> q+
15:25:47 <DaveReynolds> q+
15:26:26 <cygri> BartvanLeeuwen: is RegOrg the new name for Registered Entity?
15:26:30 <cygri> bhyland: yes
15:27:06 <BartvanLeeuwen> http://opencorporates.com/companies/nl/34094172.rdf
15:27:07 <cygri> BartvanLeeuwen: this seemed clearer in the ISA documents (?) and i wonder why we were retreating back to a more general model
15:28:35 <martinAlvarez_> martinAlvarez_ has joined #gld
15:28:51 <bhyland> Bart asked why ISA Programme Core Vocab (used by OpenCorporates), provided more RDF centric examples than this one … why is that?
15:29:29 <cygri> BartvanLeeuwen: ISA Core documentation has lots of documentation aimed at RDF. Now RegOrg seems to be a spin-off that's more generic. That confuses me
15:29:33 <DaveReynolds> ack me
15:29:33 <bhyland> The issue is that the current RegOrg doc is way to high level & leaves it as an exercise to the reader to go look up how to do it in RDF.
15:29:40 <bhyland> ack BartvanLeeuwen
15:29:41 <BartvanLeeuwen> ack me
15:30:20 <bhyland> DaveReynolds: The Legal Entity was renamed Registered Org.  This is the vocab that Chris Taggert started ...
15:30:43 <bhyland> There is agreement with cygri's point by several wg members ...
15:31:04 <cygri> dave++
15:31:11 <bhyland> … concerns with current structure of the document
15:31:25 <bhyland> … notion of code in UML diagram is completely underspecified.
15:31:34 <olyerickson1> See http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/gld/raw-file/default/legal/index.html#the-conceptual-model
15:31:40 <bhyland> … hard to understand the document because it is purely from conceptual point of view.
15:31:49 <bhyland> … Recommend that the RDF examples be put in first.
15:34:15 <bhyland> Agipap: Agrees conceptual model can go to appendix.  Appreciated the opportunity to discuss on this call.
15:34:51 <atemezin> zakim, who is speaking?
15:34:57 <jpalmeida> Ijpalmeida
15:35:02 <Zakim> atemezin, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: bhyland (56%), jpalmeida (32%)
15:35:03 <jpalmeida> João Paulo
15:35:11 <cygri> agipap, FWIW, i like having a UML model early in the document, but it should be a UML model that contains RDF classes and RDF properties. The current UML document is more high-level, and would be better in an appendix IMHO.
15:36:14 <cygri> jpalmeida++
15:36:26 <BartvanLeeuwen> jpalmeida: on the mailinglist there is ORG ontology a UML diagram, using the correct notation, why not use this method for the other vocabularies
15:37:32 <DaveReynolds> Agreed. The issue is not the UML diagram as such it is that the conceptual model uses names which don't match the RDF terms and uses a notion of "types" whose mapping to RDF is not clear.
15:37:53 <jpalmeida> +1
15:37:58 <BartvanLeeuwen> bhyland: agipap will take comments to the mailing list and update the document accordingly
15:38:03 <DaveReynolds> q+
15:38:44 <bhyland> ack DaveReynolds
15:39:26 <BartvanLeeuwen> DaveReynolds, we discuss the representation, not the vocabulary it self, so we could go to FPWD
15:39:26 <bhyland> DaveReynolds: We could vote today to take RegOrg to FPWD and acknowledge we're making edits.
15:39:27 <makx> +1
15:39:39 <BartvanLeeuwen> +1
15:39:42 <bhyland> +1
15:40:24 <sandro> +1 publish early publish often, with NOTEs about issues not yet addressed
15:42:31 <BartvanLeeuwen> sandro, all the raised issues should be in the draft
15:42:44 <bhyland> Sandro: Wants to ensure the issues are properly recorded in the ED, e.g.,  issue-41, issue-46, issue-47,
15:42:52 <BartvanLeeuwen> sandro, so that readers can see the discussion around the issues
15:42:53 <sandro> ... expressed in a way thats clear for novices
15:44:12 <bhyland> … general process for publication is that Editor says the draft reflects the feedback & issues raised by the WG.
15:44:57 <Zakim> -jpalmeida
15:45:28 <cygri> q+
15:45:33 <bhyland> q?
15:46:28 <bhyland> Agipap will allocate time to update / edit the issues raised in the RegOrg vocab.
15:46:30 <BartvanLeeuwen> agipap, we should wait with FPWD so that I can edit the document
15:46:57 <bhyland> q?
15:47:10 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
15:47:24 <jpalmeida> [IPcaller] is jpalmeida
15:47:31 <jpalmeida> yes
15:47:35 <jpalmeida> sorry about that
15:48:35 <bhyland> Cygri: Wants to make explicit the group's desire to advance a document so that people not attending today's meeting appreciate our intention.
15:48:54 <BartvanLeeuwen> cygri: if the wg wants to take a decision on advancing a document, we should put it on the agenda, so that people who can not make the call can react as well
15:48:55 <DaveReynolds> The agenda for this meeting did say "Registered Organization (RegOrg) to FPWD discussion" which is why I was assuming the proposal was to put it to a vote.
15:49:06 <bhyland> q?
15:49:10 <bhyland> ack cygri
15:49:37 <mhausenblas> +1 to what Richard said re making expectations explicit
15:49:59 <BartvanLeeuwen> Topic: Overview of W3C LC to CR Procedure
15:50:17 <BartvanLeeuwen> http://www.w3.org/2005/10/Process-20051014/tr.html#rec-advance
15:51:31 <BartvanLeeuwen> bhyland: after a contact with DaveReynolds to advance ORG sandro jumped in that process needs a bit more time
15:53:00 <bhyland> s/sandro jumped in that process/Sandro outlined the steps & timeline that shows there isn't sufficient time to completed before getting ORG to Call for Implementations in the W3C Process Pipeline
15:53:23 <bhyland> … before calendar year end (2012)
15:53:50 <bhyland> Sandro: We have to have two systems using this spec, is called "Call for Implementations", see http://www.w3.org/2005/10/Process-20051014/tr.html#cfi
15:54:29 <bhyland> … for a vocab, this means two examples of systems using the vocab and systems using (consuming) the data with all the terms.
15:54:36 <bhyland> q?
15:56:11 <bhyland> DaveReynolds: May be challenging to show use of all terms of a vocabulary. Of course, each term was motivated by use cases initially. We need to show interoperability of independent publisher(s) and consumer(s) ...
15:56:34 <bhyland> … Keeping track of independent publishers & consumers may be tricky.
15:56:54 <bhyland> q?
15:57:56 <bhyland> … Going down tracking approach may require more overhead than it is worth.  IF we're successful tracking, and say we find no one is consuming some terms, what do we do? Remove the terms?
15:58:13 <bhyland> … sounds like too much overhead for value return
15:58:32 <bhyland> Sandro: Described how the process was handled for SKOS
16:00:16 <bhyland> Sandro: W3C process is there to help us. As long we make a principled argument to modify it, we should be OK.  More importantly, if government publishers & consumers find it acceptable, that may trump W3C process.
16:00:23 <bhyland> q?
<bart> Topic: closing notes
16:01:22 <BartvanLeeuwen> bhyland: please respond to the doodle pole: http://www.doodle.com/3w7wnzy45ehn7iqi
16:01:26 <atemezin> Question What about the Google hangout next week?
16:01:41 <bhyland> Please fill out the Doodle poll re: interest & availability to travel Dublin for the next & final GLD WG F2F. http://doodle.com/3w7wnzy45ehn7iqi
16:03:04 <bhyland> q?
16:03:13 <olyerickson1> Thanks Bernadette!
16:03:21 <Zakim> -Yigal
16:03:25 <bhyland> Meeting adjourned.
16:03:28 <Zakim> -olyerickson1
16:03:31 <olyerickson1> olyerickson1 has left #gld
16:03:34 <DaveReynolds> bye all
16:03:37 <Yigal> Yigal has left #gld
16:03:40 <Zakim> -DaveReynolds
16:03:42 <Zakim> -jmynarz
16:03:44 <Zakim> -james
16:03:44 <Zakim> -atemezin
16:03:46 <Zakim> -tinagheen
16:03:46 <Zakim> -MHausenblas
16:03:48 <Zakim> -Sandro
16:03:48 <Zakim> - +3539149aaaa
16:03:48 <james> james has left #gld
16:03:51 <Zakim> -[IPcaller]
16:03:54 <DaveReynolds> DaveReynolds has left #gld
16:03:55 <Zakim> -agipap
16:03:57 <bhyland> RRSAgent, set logs world-visible
16:03:57 <Zakim> -makx
16:03:58 <Zakim> -BenediktKaempgen
16:03:59 <Zakim> -Gofran
16:04:03 <agipap> agipap has left #gld
16:04:08 <bhyland> RRSAgent, generate minutes
16:04:08 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/11/29-gld-minutes.html bhyland
16:04:08 <BenediktKaempgen> bye
# SPECIAL MARKER FOR CHATSYNC.  DO NOT EDIT THIS LINE OR BELOW.  SRCLINESUSED=00000281