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Chatlog 2012-08-16
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13:55:48 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #gld 13:55:48 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/08/16-gld-irc 13:55:50 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world 13:55:50 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #gld 13:55:52 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be GLD 13:55:52 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see T&S_GLDWG()10:00AM scheduled to start in 5 minutes 13:55:53 <trackbot> Meeting: Government Linked Data Working Group Teleconference 13:55:55 <trackbot> Date: 16 August 2012 13:56:09 <bhyland> Agenda for today's call: http://www.w3.org/2011/gld/wiki/Meetings:Telecon20120816 13:57:58 <BenediktKaempgen> BenediktKaempgen has joined #gld 13:58:15 <Zakim> T&S_GLDWG()10:00AM has now started 13:58:16 <Zakim> + +91.80.49.07.aaaa 13:58:57 <Zakim> + +49.721.aabb 13:58:57 <Zakim> - +49.721.aabb 13:58:57 <Zakim> + +49.721.aabb 13:59:04 <olyerickson> olyerickson has joined #gld 13:59:07 <Zakim> +George_Thomas 13:59:32 <Zakim> +David 13:59:45 <bhyland> zakim, david is me 13:59:45 <Zakim> +bhyland; got it 13:59:52 <SimpsonTP> SimpsonTP has joined #gld 14:00:09 <BenediktKaempgen> zakim, who's here? 14:00:09 <Zakim> On the phone I see +91.80.49.07.aaaa, +49.721.aabb, George_Thomas, bhyland 14:00:11 <Zakim> On IRC I see BartvanLeeuwen, olyerickson, BenediktKaempgen, Zakim, RRSAgent, George, bhyland, MacTed, trackbot, sandro 14:00:24 <Zakim> +hhalpin 14:00:30 <BenediktKaempgen> zakim, aabb is BenediktKaempgen 14:00:30 <Zakim> +BenediktKaempgen; got it 14:00:34 <BenediktKaempgen> zakim, who's here? 14:00:34 <Zakim> On the phone I see +91.80.49.07.aaaa, BenediktKaempgen, George_Thomas, bhyland, hhalpin 14:00:37 <Zakim> On IRC I see BartvanLeeuwen, olyerickson, BenediktKaempgen, Zakim, RRSAgent, George, bhyland, MacTed, trackbot, sandro 14:00:53 <olyerickson> zakim, who is on the phone? 14:00:55 <Zakim> On the phone I see +91.80.49.07.aaaa, BenediktKaempgen, George_Thomas, bhyland, hhalpin 14:00:57 <bhyland> zakim, aaaa is Biplav 14:00:58 <Zakim> +Biplav; got it 14:01:20 <bhyland> zakim, who is on the call? 14:01:20 <Zakim> On the phone I see Biplav, BenediktKaempgen, George_Thomas, bhyland, hhalpin 14:01:22 <Zakim> +??P17 14:01:34 <BartvanLeeuwen> Zakim ??p17 is me 14:01:35 <DaveReynolds> DaveReynolds has joined #GLD 14:01:52 <BartvanLeeuwen> it is 14:02:01 <BartvanLeeuwen> but zakim doesn't react ? 14:02:17 <BartvanLeeuwen> Zakim, ??p17 is me 14:02:17 <Zakim> +BartvanLeeuwen; got it 14:02:51 <bhyland> anyone else looked at Fadi et al's pres, see http://www.slideshare.net/fadimaali/selfservice-linked-government-data 14:03:06 <olyerickson> zakim, who is on the phone? 14:03:06 <Zakim> On the phone I see Biplav, BenediktKaempgen, George_Thomas, bhyland, hhalpin, BartvanLeeuwen 14:03:08 <Zakim> +sandro 14:03:13 <Zakim> +??P22 14:03:19 <BenediktKaempgen> George, do you want me to scribe? 14:03:23 <DaveReynolds> zakim, ??P22 is me 14:03:23 <Zakim> +DaveReynolds; got it 14:03:37 <danbri> danbri has joined #gld 14:03:49 <olyerickson> zakim, who is speaking? 14:03:55 <BenediktKaempgen> Meeting: Telecon20120816 14:04:00 <Zakim> olyerickson, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: bhyland (5%), hhalpin (80%), sandro (8%) 14:04:17 <BenediktKaempgen> Chair: George 14:04:29 <BenediktKaempgen> Agenda: http://www.w3.org/2011/gld/wiki/Meetings:Telecon20120816 14:04:37 <olyerickson> zakim, hhalpin. 14:04:37 <Zakim> I don't understand 'hhalpin', olyerickson 14:04:38 <BenediktKaempgen> Scribe: Benedikt 14:04:47 <Biplav> Biplav has joined #gld 14:04:50 <BenediktKaempgen> ScribeNick: BenediktKaempgen 14:05:02 <olyerickson> zakim, mute hhalpin. 14:05:02 <Zakim> hhalpin should now be muted 14:05:02 <tinagheen> tinagheen has joined #gld 14:05:12 <olyerickson> i'm talking 14:05:19 <bhyland> zakim, unmute hhalpin 14:05:19 <Zakim> hhalpin should no longer be muted 14:05:24 <olyerickson> how do we switch then? 14:05:31 <Zakim> +[LC] 14:05:31 <bhyland> zakim, hhalpin olyerickson 14:05:33 <Zakim> I don't understand 'hhalpin olyerickson', bhyland 14:05:42 <tinagheen> Zakim, [LC] is me 14:05:42 <Zakim> +tinagheen; got it 14:05:49 <bhyland> zakim, hhalpin is olyerickson 14:05:49 <Zakim> +olyerickson; got it 14:06:03 <George> zakim, who is on the call? 14:06:03 <Zakim> On the phone I see Biplav, BenediktKaempgen, George_Thomas, bhyland, olyerickson, BartvanLeeuwen, sandro, DaveReynolds, tinagheen 14:06:10 <olyerickson> zakim, mute olyerickson. 14:06:10 <Zakim> olyerickson should now be muted 14:07:01 <sandro> zakim, hhalpin is olyerickson 14:07:01 <Zakim> sorry, sandro, I do not recognize a party named 'hhalpin' 14:07:10 <BenediktKaempgen> TOPIC: TPAC & F2F? 14:07:19 <sandro> zakim, who is on the call? 14:07:19 <Zakim> On the phone I see Biplav, BenediktKaempgen, George_Thomas, bhyland, olyerickson (muted), BartvanLeeuwen, sandro, DaveReynolds, tinagheen 14:07:34 <BenediktKaempgen> Bart: Whether to have F2F at TPAC was not discussed. Will it happen? Unresolved. 14:07:48 <BenediktKaempgen> George: No GLD f2f planned at TPAC 14:07:55 <bhyland> Question from Bart: Did we make a definitive decision re: having our next F2F at TPAC? 14:08:23 <BenediktKaempgen> bhyland: who is going to TPAC? 14:09:08 <BenediktKaempgen> bhyland: I am planning to go. 14:09:11 <sandro> I expect to be at TPAC, the whole week 14:09:17 <BenediktKaempgen> Bart: Going there, but not entire time. 14:09:31 <bhyland> Attending TPAC - Sandro, Bart, Bernadette … 14:10:03 <Yigal> Yigal has joined #gld 14:10:36 <BenediktKaempgen> George, how about last minutes? 14:10:51 <BenediktKaempgen> TOPIC: Proposal to accept the 2012-07-26 minutes. 14:10:54 <olyerickson> +1 to minutes 14:11:00 <BenediktKaempgen> minutes are at http://www.w3.org/2011/gld/meeting/2012-07-26 14:11:04 <Zakim> +??P21 14:11:13 <Yigal> zakim, ??p21 is me 14:11:13 <Zakim> +Yigal; got it 14:11:20 <BenediktKaempgen> minutes accepted 14:11:35 <BenediktKaempgen> TOPIC: Linked Data Glossary update - Bernadette 14:11:27 <bhyland> See https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/gld/raw-file/default/glossary/index.html 14:12:08 <BenediktKaempgen> bhyland: if googling for "linked data glossary" nothing very useful is coming 14:13:31 <BenediktKaempgen> ... currently, there is no good result coming. 14:14:05 <BenediktKaempgen> ... asked Tom Heath whether to look at current status of our glossary. 14:14:26 <BenediktKaempgen> ... asked him to put up link to linkeddata.org, he agreed 14:14:53 <BenediktKaempgen> ... I assumes that it is possible to clean our current LD glossary in a week 14:15:16 <BenediktKaempgen> s/assumes/assume/ 14:15:53 <George> q? 14:15:53 <BenediktKaempgen> george: great idea to have a new version of glossary which is "approved" by Tom. 14:16:00 <olyerickson> unmute me. 14:16:04 <BenediktKaempgen> bhyland: tell me whether worth the effort? 14:16:11 <DaveReynolds> Seems like a good thing to do. 14:16:15 <olyerickson> zakim, unmute me. 14:16:15 <Zakim> olyerickson should no longer be muted 14:16:17 <tinagheen> yes, worth the effort 14:17:15 <bhyland> I invite anyone on this call, in the group or our larger community to send Ghislain & me improved wording of definitions so we can publish a decent, useful, canonical glossary. 14:17:38 <BenediktKaempgen> olyerickson: canonical glossary is important, if someone would be willing to work on it, that would be awesome. 14:18:18 <BenediktKaempgen> bhyland: I want under w3c domain a decent LD glossary 14:19:00 <Yigal> A google search brings up In the second position http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/gld/raw-file/default/glossary/index.html 14:19:06 <BartvanLeeuwen> +1 for having it under the w3c domain 14:19:10 <BenediktKaempgen> bhyland: wants to know whether someone wants to add feedback to the current glossary. 14:19:13 <olyerickson> Now I get it...thanks...apologies for missing the poit 14:19:20 <olyerickson> s/poit/point/ 14:19:39 <bhyland> no worries John, I'm sorry I wasn't clear in the beginning. 14:20:02 <BenediktKaempgen> sandro: WG note would be more efficient but would be difficult to update 14:20:44 <BenediktKaempgen> sandro: a wiki would be possible, too, but depending on what wiki is chosen, more or less people are possible to change it. 14:21:12 <BartvanLeeuwen> +q 14:21:26 <BenediktKaempgen> sandro: question is whether only working group participant should change the glossary or all people that have an W3C account. 14:21:29 <bhyland> Agreed to speak to Ivan Herman, Semantic Web activity lead 14:21:54 <DaveReynolds> I'd also advocate using the Wiki so its a community resource which can be maintained. 14:21:55 <bhyland> The semantic web wiki is here http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/wiki/Main_Page 14:22:04 <BenediktKaempgen> Bart: Prefers solution where every W3C member can edit it 14:22:14 <BenediktKaempgen> ... otherwise it gets outdated, quickly. 14:22:52 <Biplav> Biplav: prefers W3C member editing 14:23:17 <BenediktKaempgen> ACTION: bhyland to ask Ivan and group about possible options for decent glossary location 14:23:17 <trackbot> Created ACTION-74 - Ask Ivan and group about possible options for decent glossary location [on Bernadette Hyland - due 2012-08-23]. 14:24:14 <BenediktKaempgen> george: any chance that Tom updates its page according to our changes to LD glossary. 14:24:59 <George> q? 14:25:07 <BenediktKaempgen> bhyland: yes, if group is motivated enough to put some effort in it. Also, there is nothing against having several glossaries, e.g., another glossary by Tom. 14:25:12 <George> ack BartvanLeeuwen 14:25:36 <BenediktKaempgen> Topic: FPWD vocab progress 14:25:55 <olyerickson> Rec track reference: http://www.w3.org/2005/10/Process-20051014/tr.html#rec-advance 14:26:09 <BenediktKaempgen> george: most progress on dcat (related to void) 14:26:43 <BenediktKaempgen> ... Dave maybe put a possible date for another QB session 14:27:45 <BenediktKaempgen> ... open up for general discussion about the current status 14:28:17 <BenediktKaempgen> sandro: getting the vocabularies to last call means that group has resolved all issues. 14:28:36 <BenediktKaempgen> ... then it can be reviewed by the more general public 14:28:58 <bhyland> Here is the detail on Last Call Announcement, see http://www.w3.org/2005/10/Process-20051014/tr#last-call 14:29:15 <BenediktKaempgen> ... if big changes are introduced, several last calls are possible. 14:29:38 <bhyland> Note, "Duration of the review: The announcement begins a review period that SHOULD last at least three weeks but MAY last longer if the technical report is complex or has significant external dependencies." 14:29:40 <BenediktKaempgen> ... we run the risk to be too narrow in the WG 14:30:43 <BenediktKaempgen> george: dcat - how much community involvement do we need to get to consensus? 14:31:11 <BenediktKaempgen> sandro: pretty good status. People had their chances to contribute. 14:31:40 <BenediktKaempgen> george: dcat to put in last call this fall should be possible 14:31:43 <BenediktKaempgen> sandro: yes 14:32:27 <olyerickson> Note, In addition to "People" isn't there "Location?" Or did we set that aside 14:32:45 <BenediktKaempgen> george: data-cube - what is the state here? 14:33:09 <BenediktKaempgen> DaveReynolds: Cube needs at least one more working draft. 14:34:14 <BenediktKaempgen> ... regarding current issues, I think they are either out of scope or easy to resolve 14:34:51 <BenediktKaempgen> ... there are lively discussions on new features, e.g., units of measures. I think there is no reason to change cube. 14:35:24 <BenediktKaempgen> ... there are efforts to have some cube+, with more OLAP features. But risk of scope-creep. 14:36:04 <Biplav_> Biplav_ has joined #gld 14:36:40 <BenediktKaempgen> ... aim would be to have over the next 1-2 months a cube session and create a new working draft, that is then put to last call for wider reviewing. 14:37:20 <olyerickson> For clarification, one of our grad students on PROV is asking questions/making suggestions wrt DataCube/PROV usage 14:37:58 <olyerickson> That's why DaveReynolds mentioned me ;) 14:38:45 <BenediktKaempgen> george: regarding proposals for cube. Shall we settle dates for proposals done, reviewing, qb session etc.? 14:39:15 <bhyland> q+ 14:39:35 <BenediktKaempgen> DaveReynolds: prefers to have proposals out on mailing lists first, and then see the reactions. Then we would be more flexible. 14:40:12 <BenediktKaempgen> ... What is the time frame for vocabs? 14:40:45 <BenediktKaempgen> bhyland: last call was scheduled for October 2012. We are some time behind. 14:45:42 <BenediktKaempgen> george: taking the action to speak to Dave and Richard to settle dates for proposals and cube session, as soon as possible. 14:45:57 <bhyland> My concern is that we published FPWD in early April. We got quite a bit of useful feedback in the following months. I have a bias to action to at least *try* to getting DCAT to by September. 14:46:19 <bhyland> Recognizing that we may have 1-2 last calls. 14:46:37 <George> q? 14:46:42 <BenediktKaempgen> george: speaking about this topic in next chair telco. 14:47:09 <bhyland> Dave: Suggests getting DCAT out to LC in next month. 14:47:11 <bhyland> +1 14:47:12 <BenediktKaempgen> DaveReynolds: get dcat last call out should be focus now 14:47:33 <bhyland> TOPIC: ORG vocab 14:47:54 <George> ack bhyland 14:47:56 <bhyland> See http://www.w3.org/2011/gld/wiki/Organizational_Structures 14:47:58 <BenediktKaempgen> DaveReynolds: Bart had use case to define organization independent of people. 14:48:06 <bhyland> ED = http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/gld/raw-file/default/org/index.html 14:48:46 <bhyland> I'd like to propose that DCAT and Cube get to FC in September. 14:48:46 <BenediktKaempgen> ... there are other efforts (e.g., ADMS) that overlap with efforts which may lead with some confusion. 14:49:24 <bhyland> In fairness, we should consider ORG in context with ADMS organizational vocab (ISA Programme) 14:49:54 <BenediktKaempgen> ... it is important that vocabularies are compatible, e.g., org, people, ADMS. 14:50:09 <BartvanLeeuwen> +q 14:50:35 <bhyland> q+ 14:50:55 <BenediktKaempgen> Bart: Proposes to change org regarding to feedback and get a new version out. 14:51:28 <bhyland> +1 to Bart 14:51:37 <BartvanLeeuwen> ack me 14:51:43 <BenediktKaempgen> Bart: If changes are relatively easy, they should be done as soon as possible. 14:52:09 <BartvanLeeuwen> Zakim, ack me 14:52:09 <Zakim> I see bhyland on the speaker queue 14:52:54 <BenediktKaempgen> bhyland: risk of having only emotional discussions, but not bringing improvements to the people 14:54:01 <George> q? 14:54:03 <BenediktKaempgen> bhyland: ADMS seems to big to be thouroughly reviewed by WG 14:54:06 <George> ack bhyland 14:54:20 <DaveReynolds> q+ 14:54:29 <DaveReynolds> ack me 14:55:21 <BenediktKaempgen> DaveReynolds: bigger issue is relation between ADMS and dcat. I do not think we need to review ADMS to make progress with org. 14:55:25 <Biplav_> q+ 14:56:17 <BenediktKaempgen> ... business part of ADMS seems a more independent part 14:56:34 <bhyland> DaveReynolds: ADMS underpins everything and thus have an impact on DCAT. The business vocabulary ISA Programme is not well understood by people on the call vis a vis connections with our vocabs in FPWD. 14:56:43 <Biplav_> uncertainty 14:56:49 <BenediktKaempgen> Biplav_: Have we decided how to handle uncertainty? 14:57:11 <DaveReynolds> q+ 14:57:25 <DaveReynolds> ack me 14:57:28 <BenediktKaempgen> Biplav: Example is accident with injured with people. There is inherent uncertainty here. 14:58:11 <bhyland> ORG has no concept of uncertainty. You can represent history over time, but at any given time, it is deterministic at a given interval. 14:58:13 <BenediktKaempgen> DaveReynolds: regarding org uncertainty is not considered, since we deal with deterministic snapshots. 14:58:51 <Biplav_> Agreed - uncertainty in organization is hard to imagine. 14:58:58 <BenediktKaempgen> ... in data-cube uncertainty is a relevant issue and can be handled by qualitative attributes. 14:59:47 <bhyland> Dave: Historic info captured by "historical information" component of ORG, see http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/gld/raw-file/default/org/index.html#historical-information 14:59:50 <George> q? 14:59:55 <George> ack Biplav_ 15:00:03 <BenediktKaempgen> Biplav_: Was expecting some concepts regarding uncertainty in general. 15:00:13 <sandro> http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/urw3/XGR-urw3-20080331/ Uncertainty Reasoning for the World Wide Web 15:00:23 <BenediktKaempgen> ... but sees Daves points. 15:00:39 <BenediktKaempgen> TOPIC: Upcoming Meeting Agenda Planning 15:01:09 <BenediktKaempgen> bhyland: topics will be best practices and community directory. Next steps. 15:01:52 <bhyland> See Scribes page for schedule and please volunteer to scribe :-) http://www.w3.org/2011/gld/wiki/Scribes 15:01:53 <olyerickson> Thanks Leaders! 15:01:56 <DaveReynolds> bye all 15:01:58 <Zakim> -tinagheen 15:02:00 <BartvanLeeuwen> bye 15:02:00 <Zakim> -bhyland 15:02:01 <Zakim> -sandro 15:02:01 <Zakim> -George_Thomas 15:02:03 <Zakim> -DaveReynolds 15:02:04 <Zakim> -olyerickson 15:02:11 <Zakim> -Biplav 15:02:11 <Zakim> -BartvanLeeuwen 15:02:11 <BenediktKaempgen> RRSAgent, set logs world-visible 15:02:11 <bhyland> Thanks all. 15:02:14 <olyerickson> olyerickson has left #gld 15:02:19 <Zakim> -Yigal 15:02:20 <BartvanLeeuwen> BartvanLeeuwen has left #gld 15:02:21 <BenediktKaempgen> RRSAgent, generate minutes 15:02:21 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/08/16-gld-minutes.html BenediktKaempgen 15:02:36 <George> thanks BenediktKaempgen !! 15:03:01 <BenediktKaempgen> no problem, thanks George # SPECIAL MARKER FOR CHATSYNC. 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