Chatlog 2012-05-17

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13:52:14 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #gld
13:52:15 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/05/17-gld-irc
13:52:16 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
13:52:16 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #gld
13:52:18 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be GLD
13:52:18 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see T&S_GLDWG()10:00AM scheduled to start in 8 minutes
13:52:19 <trackbot> Meeting: Government Linked Data Working Group Teleconference
13:52:19 <trackbot> Date: 17 May 2012
13:53:24 <George> Chair: George Thomas
13:53:54 <George> Agenda: http://www.w3.org/2011/gld/wiki/Meetings:Telecon20120517
13:57:34 <Zakim> T&S_GLDWG()10:00AM has now started
13:57:41 <Zakim> +George_Thomas
13:58:19 <Zakim> +??P4
13:58:32 <Zakim> +??P5
13:58:43 <BartvanLeeuwen> Zakim, ??p5 is me
13:58:43 <Zakim> +BartvanLeeuwen; got it
13:59:07 <Zakim> +davidwood
14:00:21 <luisBer> luisBer has joined #gld
14:00:53 <PhilA2> PhilA2 has joined #gld
14:01:21 <Zakim> + +1.267.481.aaaa
14:01:38 <PhilA2> zakim, code?
14:01:38 <Zakim> the conference code is 45394 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), PhilA2
14:01:42 <George> zakin, who is here?
14:01:48 <George> zakim, who is here?
14:01:48 <Zakim> On the phone I see George_Thomas, ??P4, BartvanLeeuwen, davidwood, +1.267.481.aaaa
14:01:51 <Zakim> On IRC I see PhilA2, luisBer, Zakim, RRSAgent, George, MacTed, BartvanLeeuwen, bhyland, danbri, trackbot, sandro
14:01:55 <luisBer> aaaa is me
14:01:56 <Zakim> +??P7
14:02:02 <PhilA2> zakim, ??P7 is me
14:02:02 <Zakim> +PhilA2; got it
14:02:09 <bhyland> davidwood is me
14:02:10 <DaveReynolds> DaveReynolds has joined #gld
14:02:17 <bhyland> zakim, davidwood is me
14:02:17 <Zakim> +bhyland; got it
14:02:57 <PhilA2> zakim, ??P4 is Benedikt
14:02:57 <Zakim> +Benedikt; got it
14:03:08 <George> zakim, who is here?
14:03:08 <Zakim> On the phone I see George_Thomas, Benedikt, BartvanLeeuwen, bhyland, +1.267.481.aaaa, PhilA2
14:03:11 <Zakim> On IRC I see DaveReynolds, PhilA2, luisBer, Zakim, RRSAgent, George, MacTed, BartvanLeeuwen, bhyland, danbri, trackbot, sandro
14:03:18 <PhilA2> I guess I should
14:03:39 <Benedikt> Benedikt has joined #gld
14:03:39 <Zakim> +??P8
14:03:45 <Benedikt> There I am!
14:03:46 <PhilA2> scribe: PhilA2
14:03:59 <PhilA2> scribeNick is PhilA2
14:04:12 <Benedikt> zakim, who's here?
14:04:12 <Zakim> On the phone I see George_Thomas, Benedikt, BartvanLeeuwen, bhyland, +1.267.481.aaaa, PhilA2, DaveReynolds
14:04:14 <Zakim> On IRC I see Benedikt, DaveReynolds, PhilA2, luisBer, Zakim, RRSAgent, George, MacTed, BartvanLeeuwen, bhyland, danbri, trackbot, sandro
14:04:54 <PhilA2> agenda: http://www.w3.org/2011/gld/wiki/Meetings:Telecon20120517
14:05:00 <PhilA2> chair: George
14:05:16 <Zakim> +Sandro
14:05:50 <PhilA2> resolution: Minutes of meeting on 3 May accepted (http://www.w3.org/2011/gld/meeting/2012-05-03)
14:06:28 <PhilA2> bhyland: Expresses caution about taking on more (and more) vocabularies. Glad that we're not taking on any more
14:07:09 <PhilA2> bhyland: Wants to raise issue that anyone can anyone can raise an issue via the public mailing list. Context is Rufus Pollock who has been told that he can't raise an issue - he certainly can
14:07:15 <bhyland> Note Correction in 3-May minutes: stated "... i told him to raise issues but he can't cause not WG member http://www.w3.org/2011/gld/meeting/2012-05-03#line0093
14:07:15 <bhyland> "
14:07:22 <bhyland> He can send to public GLD WG list!
14:07:29 <PhilA2> sandro: says if it's about access to the issue tracker then, yes, you need to be a WG member 
14:07:53 <PhilA2> s/resolution: Minutes of meeting on 3 May accepted (http://www.w3.org/2011/gld/meeting/2012-05-03)//
14:08:18 <PhilA2> bhyland: I'll edit the minutes
14:08:32 <Zakim> +[LC]
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14:08:37 <George> q?
14:08:41 <Yigal> Yigal has joined #gld
14:08:42 <PhilA2> Resolved - minutes resolution: Minutes from 3 May accepted (http://www.w3.org/2011/gld/meeting/2012-05-03) subject to those edits
14:08:47 <Benedikt> http://www.w3.org/2011/gld/wiki/Meetings:Telecon20120517#Main_Vocab_Agenda:_QB_.28.7E45_minutes.29
14:08:53 <PhilA2> Topic: Cube Vocabulary
14:09:11 <PhilA2> Benedikt: link above is to the vocab
14:09:19 <George> http://www.w3.org/2011/gld/wiki/images/c/c3/Kaempgen_QB-XBRL_2012-05-17.pdf
14:09:52 <PhilA2> ... lots of discussion on the XBRL and how this can interact with the GLD work and the RDF data Cube vocab
14:10:04 <PhilA2> Benedikt: Should at least be a use case
14:10:05 <Zakim> + +1.720.708.aabb
14:10:17 <PhilA2> Benedikt: This is work I;ve been doing at DERI earlier in the year
14:10:22 <Yigal> zakim, aabb is me
14:10:22 <Zakim> +Yigal; got it
14:10:33 <PhilA2> Benedikt: I participated in teh XBRL challenge
14:10:37 <PhilA2> Benedikt: Slide 2
14:11:13 <PhilA2> Benedikt: overview of the talk
14:11:23 <PhilA2> Benedikt: Slide 3
14:13:22 <PhilA2> Benedikt: highlights usefulness of XBRL and requirement from US authorities to publish financial data in XBRL
14:14:04 <mhausenblas> mhausenblas has joined #gld
14:14:30 <Zakim> +cygri
14:14:41 <mhausenblas> Zakim, cygri really is me
14:14:41 <Zakim> I don't understand 'cygri really is me', mhausenblas
14:14:49 <PhilA2> Benedikt: Still difficult to integrate XBRL as it uses different vocabularies and it's even harder to integrate XBRL outside itself
14:14:52 <mhausenblas> Zakim, I am cygri
14:14:52 <Zakim> ok, mhausenblas, I now associate you with cygri
14:15:16 <mhausenblas> Michael: Sorry for running late, previous meeting took longer than expected
14:15:30 <PhilA2> Benedikt: Hope is that XBRL can become part of the community via the QB
14:18:00 <George> George has joined #gld
14:19:19 <Zakim> + +91.80.67.84.aacc
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14:22:35 <PhilA2> Benedikt: Shows example of XBRL in use (slide 9) - this is essentially a use case for GLD
14:22:47 <PhilA2> Benedikt: Slide 10
14:23:02 <Biplav> Biplav has joined on phone 5 mins back. Sorry for being late due to logistics reasons.
14:23:16 <PhilA2> Benedikt: Use case is to go the other way. Take linked data and turn it into native XBRL
14:23:33 <PhilA2> Benedikt: This is internationally important work!
14:23:57 <PhilA2> Benedikt: Slide 11 Challenges
14:23:59 <George> and round tripping between trees and graphs is a generally interesting topic too :)
14:24:33 <PhilA2> Benedikt: Could this be included in the cookbook? The QB?
14:24:51 <PhilA2> Benedikt: Talks through the challenges listed on the slide
14:26:55 <PhilA2> Benedikt: needs to be possible to do automatic checks - the number of numbers is too big and complex to do it manually
14:27:18 <PhilA2> ... hence suggestion of including Business Rules - sounds like a job for RIF, Sandro?
14:28:06 <PhilA2> Benedikt: Need to watch the versions - there are new versions of XBRL every year, standard taxonomies and so on. It's a moving target all the way
14:28:21 <PhilA2> Benedikt: Slide 12 discussion points
14:28:22 <George> q?
14:29:22 <PhilA2> Benedikt: Perhaps show how to publish COINS using both QB and XBRL ?
14:29:27 <DaveReynolds> q+
14:29:31 <bhyland> q+
14:29:44 <George> ack DaveReynolds 
14:29:48 <PhilA2> DaveReynolds: taking up your discussion points...
14:29:51 <PhilA2> q+
14:30:36 <PhilA2> DaveReynolds: An Informative Note might be a way. A WG can create actual standards, but a WG Note which is a kind of status doc on how people can use QB with XBRL and that can be referred to from the BP doc
14:30:44 <George> DaveReynolds: perhaps a WG Note - how QB/XBRL 'can' be used - (not *the* way)
14:30:48 <PhilA2> ... we can say that these are good and relevent examples without being a Rec
14:31:35 <PhilA2> Benedikt: Not sure what an Informative Note is, but it sounds like a good idea. i.e. produce the information as a separate document describing how to use QB with XBRL
14:31:39 <DaveReynolds> http://www.w3.org/TR/rif-owl-rl/
14:31:42 <George> q?
14:31:43 <PhilA2> Benedikt: So that sounds like an idea, yes
14:32:22 <PhilA2> DaveReynolds: That URI is an example of a Note that describes a similar situation. It has no standard status but it is something that the Wg has reviewed and has confidence in and can be refrred to
14:32:37 <PhilA2> George: That sounds consistent and a good example
14:32:50 <PhilA2> bhyland: Thanks Benedikt that was a lot of info.
14:33:43 <George> q?
14:33:46 <George> ack bhyland 
14:33:55 <PhilA2> bhyland: This is as detailed and relevant as other specific domains, eg health and environment. Going on beyond a Note worries me. I'm supportive of going that far but no further - it's more than we can chew I think
14:34:05 <PhilA2> bhyland: There's so much about this... 
14:34:43 <PhilA2> bhyland: There's a UK group, the EDM Council that has US participants too. Bunch of regulators etc. Looking at standards, legal identifier recommendations etc.
14:34:53 <bhyland> EDMC mentioned, http://www.edmcouncil.org/sec_standards.aspx
14:34:54 <PhilA2> ... potential source of funding I'd say
14:35:02 <PhilA2> s/EDM/EDMC/
14:35:17 <PhilA2> bhyland: Looks like the people there have the expertise and connections
14:35:43 <PhilA2> bhyland: What we really need is to get some funding aorund this - I think.
14:35:55 <DaveReynolds> bhyland - not working with/heard of them but sounds like great suggestion
14:36:24 <BartvanLeeuwen> q+
14:36:28 <PhilA2> Benedikt: I have my obligations to the University and the GLD. It's all related to my research. XBRL is a very good use case
14:36:49 <PhilA2> Benedikt: So in general I can spend some time with it but not as much as wouold be needed to push something like this forward
14:36:58 <PhilA2> Benedikt: So I'd say not enough funding at the moment
14:37:33 <PhilA2> bhyland: So this looks very important indeed. Huge amounts of value. Let's tug the thread of the EDMC thathas some big names on it
14:37:57 <PhilA2> bhyland: But like Phil got EU ISA Prog funding... can we do that for this?
14:38:16 <PhilA2> bhyland: I hope you follow Beth Noveck and co on Twitter
14:38:27 <PhilA2> George: So we have consensus on heading for a notre
14:38:29 <PhilA2> ack me
14:38:32 <BartvanLeeuwen> +1 for a note
14:39:53 <Benedikt> Thanks, Bernadette
14:39:59 <bhyland> EDM Council focuses on standards for semantics repository, legal entity ID, instrument ID, classification ID, see http://www.edmcouncil.org/about.aspx
14:41:34 <DaveReynolds> philA2 - good points, given that history then even a note may be too much.
14:41:40 <bhyland> +1 to PhilA
14:41:48 <BartvanLeeuwen> +1
14:41:57 <George> q?
14:42:02 <George> ack BartvanLeeuwen 
14:42:33 <PhilA2> PhilA2: said +1 to getting extra funding. This might be a whole new work strand and it needs funding somehow. The WG doesn't have the bandwidth to take on soemthing this big - and the XBRL community has money.
14:42:47 <bhyland> Thanks Benedikt, very, very valuable data set & effort to make XBRL more interoperable as data in the Web following Linked Data principles.
14:42:48 <PhilA2> BartvanLeeuwen: We can't do everything - we won't ever reach the end
14:43:45 <PhilA2> DaveReynolds: Part of my concer is that once we get into coordination between diff SDOs, the cyle gets even slower. All we can really do here I'd say is offer some advice on how we would see XBRL being used in LD
14:43:48 <bhyland> @BartvanLeeuwen, I agree however we can put some scaffolding up to help advance some relevant data sets especially if we have the benefit of some researchers who are LOD savvy interested in doing the heavy lifting … like Benedikt
14:44:13 <PhilA2> DaveReynolds: I'm more nervous around business rules - that's big. Need to have a clear scope of what we can do
14:44:14 <George> q?
14:44:34 <PhilA2> q+
14:44:35 <bhyland> q+
14:45:04 <bhyland> yep, I was going to ask what we agreed & scope.
14:46:07 <Benedikt> +1 Phil's suggestion
14:46:49 <DaveReynolds> +1 PhilA - write a brief doc recommending specific scoping of this
14:47:06 <PhilA2> PhilA2: I'll begin drafting a doc that would set out what we can do with different levels of commitment from XBRL community, starting with the kind of note that DaveReynolds described
14:47:18 <BartvanLeeuwen> q+
14:47:30 <George> ack PhilA
14:47:33 <PhilA2> bhyland: A working note that describes how LD can apply to a specific community is going to be valuable
14:47:34 <George> ack bhyland 
14:47:48 <PhilA2> bhyland: Human health, scientific data etc. Those are similar verticals
14:48:17 <PhilA2> bhyland: Gov financial regulation is an important vertical
14:48:38 <PhilA2> George: The references that Benedikt gave us is a good place to start - probably get a Note out that alone
14:48:51 <PhilA2> BartvanLeeuwen: I agree with bhyland. We shouldn't try and get this into the main doc
14:49:13 <PhilA2> BartvanLeeuwen: I have examples of using gov LD and it's smarter to put them in a separate doc rather than the BP doc
14:49:42 <PhilA2> George: DaveReynolds - any other actions or issues about QB?
14:49:48 <DaveReynolds> http://www.w3.org/2011/gld/track/products/3
14:50:20 <PhilA2> DaveReynolds: many actions are closed but there's some document clean up to do following feedback. 
14:50:33 <bhyland> I'm getting the sense that the regulars on the call want to see LOD vocabs & BPs "in action", potentially in some key verticals (e.g., financial data of interest to regulators, human health, environmental scientists in public & private sectors) and that some form of W3 Notes is the right approach.
14:50:52 <PhilA2> DaveReynolds: I think what's left looks pretty straightforward for the group to look at to make decisions over
14:51:12 <PhilA2> DaveReynolds: I'm thinking a Note again for examples
14:51:16 <bhyland> +1 to what Bart & DaveReynolds are saying … belongs in Note
14:51:57 <PhilA2> DaveReynolds: proposal is over the next N weeks, I can put togetehr some suggestions for closing issues. Once we have enough discussion on the list, we could go through them in a telecon
14:51:58 <bhyland> +1
14:52:01 <Benedikt> +1
14:52:04 <PhilA2> George: +1 from me
14:52:11 <mhausenblas> +1
14:52:12 <BartvanLeeuwen> +1
14:52:21 <PhilA2> George: We'll watch the list and figure out a date for that follow up/clean up call
14:52:30 <PhilA2> George: We won'#t pick a date right now
14:52:38 <George> q?
14:52:46 <BartvanLeeuwen> ack me
14:53:11 <PhilA2> Topic: ISA Programme
14:53:28 <PhilA2> ISA Programme vocabs e-mail http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-gld-wg/2012May/0008.html
14:54:05 <bhyland> @PhilA2, congratulations!
14:54:51 <bhyland> Topic: ADMS - Asset Description Management System, similar to DCAT but used to describe assets in an organization vs. data catalogues
14:56:11 <George> q?
14:56:27 <PhilA2> RADion http://philarcher.org/isa/radion_v1.0.rdf
14:56:36 <PhilA2> ADMS http://philarcher.org/isa/adms_v1.0.1.rdf
14:56:51 <bhyland> PR about RADion v1.0 is here https://joinup.ec.europa.eu/news/radion-v100-officially-released
14:56:58 <PhilA2> Person http://philarcher.org/isa/person-v03.rdf
14:57:01 <George> q?
14:57:14 <PhilA2> Busines/Legal http://philarcher.org/isa/locn-v03.rdf
14:57:26 <PhilA2> Location http://philarcher.org/isa/locn-v03.rdf
14:57:38 <bhyland> Here is the europa.eu info with basic context, see https://joinup.ec.europa.eu/asset/adms/description
14:57:41 <mhausenblas> +1
14:57:44 <DaveReynolds> q+
14:58:42 <bhyland> Discussed - Name Space policy - OK if there is group discussion within GLD WG.
14:59:01 <PhilA2> http://www.w3.org/ns/adms
14:59:18 <bhyland> To date, it has been formally discussed by W3C management, EU Commission and the GLD WG chairs & staff contact.
15:00:00 <PhilA2> DaveReynolds: Org went into /ns with Tim's permission and not a WG item
15:00:10 <bhyland> DaveReynolds: Since it is comes to the WG from another source is a better approach.
15:00:16 <PhilA2> DaveReynolds: Maybe a holding page with a link to the original might be better
15:00:45 <PhilA2> DaveReynolds: I'm aware they were coming to the WG and I've had some reservation. I may have missed some detail
15:01:26 <PhilA2> bhyland: I'm erring on the side of getting this off philarcher.org and into w3.org
15:01:47 <PhilA2> bhyland: I'm happy as long as sandro and PhilA2 say it's ok
15:02:02 <PhilA2> George: I see no objections, so can we reolve and move forward
15:02:51 <cygri> cygri has joined #gld
15:02:55 <bhyland> strawpoll: Is everyone in favor of putting ADMS info into w3.org name space, specifically http://www.w3.org/ns/adms
15:03:05 <DaveReynolds> +0
15:03:18 <George> +1
15:04:11 <sandro> +1
15:04:14 <mhausenblas> +1
15:04:15 <BartvanLeeuwen> +1
15:04:15 <Benedikt> +1
15:04:16 <bhyland> +1
15:04:36 <bhyland> for 31-May guest speaker on needs from gov't publishers: John Barker, Wolters Kluwer Product Strategist
15:04:42 <PhilA2> bhyland: 31 May we have John Barker from Wolters Kluwer good complement to Benedikt's talk today
15:05:11 <Biplav> Biplav has joined #gld
15:05:19 <bhyland> resolved: ADMS info to be moved into http://w3.org/ name space, specifically http://www.w3.org/ns/adms
15:05:27 <bhyland> PhilA2 to handle the above.  Thanks Phil!
15:05:33 <BartvanLeeuwen> George, fine with me
15:05:38 <bhyland> Many thanks to Benedikt for you pres today.
15:06:35 <BartvanLeeuwen> thx<
15:06:37 <Zakim> -bhyland
15:06:37 <George> ditto bhyland - thanks Benedikt ! 
15:06:38 <DaveReynolds> thanks, bye
15:06:46 <Benedikt> Thanks George, bye all
15:08:17 <Zakim> T&S_GLDWG()10:00AM has ended
15:08:19 <Zakim> Attendees were George_Thomas, BartvanLeeuwen, +1.267.481.aaaa, PhilA2, bhyland, Benedikt, DaveReynolds, Sandro, [LC], +1.720.708.aabb, Yigal, cygri, +91.80.67.84.aacc
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