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15:00:16 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #gld 15:00:16 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/12/08-gld-irc 15:00:18 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world 15:00:18 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #gld 15:00:20 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be EGOV_GLD 15:00:20 <Zakim> I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled within the next hour, trackbot 15:00:21 <trackbot> Meeting: Government Linked Data Working Group Teleconference 15:00:21 <trackbot> Date: 08 December 2011 15:00:26 <sandro> zakim, this is gld 15:00:26 <Zakim> ok, sandro; that matches T&S_GLDWG()10:00AM 15:00:34 <Yigal> Yigal has joined #gld 15:00:51 <Zakim> +raphael 15:00:51 <gatemezi> gatemezi has joined #gld 15:01:09 <Zakim> +??P21 15:01:11 <sandro> zakim, who is talking? 15:01:22 <Zakim> sandro, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: raphael (94%) 15:01:30 <Zakim> -??P21 15:01:32 <Zakim> +George_Thomas 15:01:47 <sandro> zakim, drop raphael 15:01:47 <sandro> scribe: fadmaa 15:01:47 <Zakim> raphael is being disconnected 15:01:49 <Zakim> -raphael 15:01:53 <bhyland> zakim, who is on the call? 15:01:53 <Zakim> On the phone I see +030014aaaa, BernHyland, sandro, George_Thomas 15:01:57 <sandro> zakim, this is gld 15:01:57 <Zakim> sandro, this was already T&S_GLDWG()10:00AM 15:01:58 <Zakim> ok, sandro; that matches T&S_GLDWG()10:00AM 15:01:58 <Zakim> +[IPcaller] 15:02:05 <sandro> zakim, who is talking? 15:02:08 <George> George has joined #gld 15:02:15 <Yigal> zakim, IPcaller is me 15:02:15 <Zakim> +Yigal; got it 15:02:16 <Zakim> sandro, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: +030014aaaa (18%), BernHyland (31%), [IPcaller] (10%), George_Thomas (77%) 15:02:19 <tgheen> tgheen has joined #gld 15:02:42 <bhyland> zakim, aaaa is fadmaa 15:02:42 <Zakim> +fadmaa; got it 15:02:45 <Zakim> +??P22 15:03:06 <Zakim> +[LC] 15:03:11 <BartvanLeeuwen> Zakim, ??P22 is me 15:03:11 <Zakim> +BartvanLeeuwen; got it 15:03:17 <fadmaa> agenda: http://www.w3.org/2011/gld/wiki/Meetings:Telecon2011.12.08 15:05:11 <fadmaa> Topic: DCAT/ADMS breakout session 15:05:32 <fadmaa> George: there is a link to the ADMS/dcat discussion 15:05:41 <fadmaa> ...http://www.w3.org/2011/gld/meeting/2011-11-28 15:05:57 <George> https://www.w3.org/2011/gld/group/WD-DCAT-20111218.html 15:06:26 <Zakim> + +1.703.362.aabb 15:06:45 <Zakim> +raphael 15:06:57 <fadmaa> ...Martin suggested a new property to indicate direct access 15:07:21 <fadmaa> ...of dcat:Distribution 15:07:26 <annew> annew has joined #gld 15:08:44 <George> http://www.w3.org/2011/gld/meeting/2011-11-17 15:08:52 <fadmaa> ...minutes of the last telcon http://www.w3.org/2011/gld/meeting/2011-11-17 15:09:07 <fadmaa> PROPOSED: accept minutes 15:09:22 <BartvanLeeuwen> +1 for minutes 15:09:24 <Yigal> +1 accept minutes 15:09:28 <fadmaa> bhyland: F2F2 will be in two locations 15:09:36 <fadmaa> ...Ireland and Washington DC 15:09:39 <bhyland> +1 15:09:49 <gatemezi> +1 15:09:49 <cygri> cygri has joined #gld 15:09:59 <bhyland> s/bernaddet/bhylabd 15:10:10 <bhyland> s/bhylabd/bhyland 15:10:11 <fadmaa> s/bernaddet/bhyland/ 15:10:59 <fadmaa> RESOLVED: minutes accepted 15:11:23 <fadmaa> Topic: vocab.data.gov 15:11:51 <fadmaa> George: data.gov plans to deploy DERI neologism 15:12:01 <Zakim> +cygri 15:12:02 <George> http://neologism.deri.ie/ 15:12:03 <fadmaa> ...for vocabulary management 15:12:37 <fadmaa> ...Neologism is open source platform for vocabulary management http://neologism.deri.ie/ 15:12:41 <George> http://vocab.deri.ie/ 15:13:03 <fadmaa> ...Richard raised a couple of questions and provided some guidance 15:14:05 <fadmaa> ...the intention is to have internal and external vocabularies 15:14:27 <fadmaa> ...some issues were raised regarding authors for example 15:14:38 <DruidSmith> DruidSmith has joined #gld 15:14:45 <George> vocab.deri.org/void 15:14:55 <fadmaa> ...neologism assume its users as authors. not true for external vocabularies like void 15:15:00 <George> vocab.data.gov/void 15:15:54 <fadmaa> ...generally, there is no problem from data.gov perspective 15:16:18 <fadmaa> ...some work around can be utilized 15:16:26 <DruidSmith_> DruidSmith_ has joined #gld 15:16:42 <bhyland> q+ 15:16:43 <fadmaa> ...the main goal of vocab.data.gov is cataloging vocabularies rather than managing them and supporting the full life cycle 15:17:14 <fadmaa> bhyland: who will be the maintainer? how will the logistics be? 15:17:23 <Zakim> + +1.202.566.aacc 15:17:34 <DruidSmith_> zakim, aacc is me 15:17:34 <Zakim> +DruidSmith_; got it 15:17:48 <BartvanLeeuwen> +q 15:18:25 <fadmaa> George: a couple of people will be managing it in a lightweight manner.. they will be the point of contact 15:18:32 <cygri> q+ 15:18:51 <fadmaa> ...users will request support and adding vocabularies through the contact people 15:18:51 <George> ack bhyland 15:18:57 <Zakim> -cygri 15:19:06 <George> q? 15:19:22 <fadmaa> BartvanLeeuwen: I like neologism... my problem with it is that it is very slow 15:19:31 <Zakim> +cygri 15:19:46 <fadmaa> ...responsiveness is very slow. wondering if there is enhancements 15:20:24 <fadmaa> cygri: we experienced slow responsiveness on vocab.deri.ie 15:20:41 <BartvanLeeuwen> q- 15:20:45 <fadmaa> ...most of it was solved and the situation had been improved to an accceptable degree 15:20:48 <bhyland> George: the points on contact for adding vocabs to vocab.data.gov will be George Thomas and Chris Musialek. 15:21:25 <BartvanLeeuwen> q+ 15:21:35 <bhyland> cygri: Neologism is a fairly light application, performance is "good enough", it isn't meant to be mission critical (?) 15:22:06 <fadmaa> cygri: any plans to support editing vocabularies on vocab.data.gov? 15:22:20 <fadmaa> George: initially it will mainly be used as a catalogue 15:22:39 <fadmaa> ...to have a place where people can make their vocabularies visible 15:22:50 <bhyland> George: vocab.data.gov is intended to provide a place to make vocabs more visible. It isn't intended to be a place for maintenance of vocabs. It is a directory listing. 15:23:00 <fadmaa> ...do not expect people to be using it for actual creation and editing 15:24:00 <bhyland> q+ 15:24:04 <cygri> ack me 15:24:22 <George> ack bhyland 15:25:08 <fadmaa> bhyland: do we want to recommend on incorporating tools 15:25:47 <Zakim> +??P37 15:25:48 <fadmaa> ...especially with tools that might not be commercially supported 15:26:12 <fadmaa> ...maintinance might be an issue. 15:26:18 <annew> annew is on SIP 15:27:03 <fadmaa> cygri: I have experience with working on tools in the course of research academic projects 15:27:24 <bhyland> cygri: I feel that it's important to make a statement of usability, maintenance, support for a given tool. 15:27:28 <Yigal> But how do we know what the current and future plans for such a tool are? 15:27:31 <fadmaa> ...it is important to make the status of the project and its level of support very clear 15:28:09 <bhyland> cygri: There are various ways to characterize this in objective ways, e.g., when was it release, how often is it updated, how many posts to the mailing list, etc that all give an indication of whether a healthy community exists. 15:28:11 <fadmaa> ...some simple measures can help. looking at the number of releases, its mailing list, etc. 15:28:18 <Zakim> + +91.80.49.06.aadd 15:28:34 <bhyland> cygri: If external funding went into the project, that is also a good sign. 15:29:14 <bhyland> +1 agree with cygri and think the GLD WG should provide guidance on this topic. 15:29:19 <fadmaa> ...to summarize, if you make recommendation on a tool it is worth spending time on documenting the status of the project 15:30:25 <George> q? 15:30:43 <fadmaa> bhyland: shall we add this to other places like the cook book, the vocabulary...? 15:31:01 <BartvanLeeuwen> q- 15:31:12 <Yigal> I think a pre-defined checklist would be a good idea, because it would help ensure a standard for evaluation. 15:31:15 <Biplav> Biplav has joined #gld 15:31:47 <fadmaa> cygri: I will send an email with a list of bullet points outlining the main points to look at 15:31:49 <BartvanLeeuwen> cygri, could you share a link where I can find some information on the performance tuning you described earlier ? 15:32:05 <fadmaa> sandro: this sounds relevant to procurement 15:32:24 <annew> q+ 15:32:47 <bhyland> George: Suggested that the "tools viability" checklist should go in the Procurement section of the Best Practices Deliverable. 15:32:54 <fadmaa> BartvanLeeuwen: is there a pointer to how to tune neologism performance? 15:33:11 <fadmaa> cygri: I suggest sending an email to neologism mailing list 15:33:16 <annew> on no mic failure 15:33:21 <annew> I'll ask by chat 15:33:34 <annew> The issues seem to be about stability!! 15:33:38 <bhyland> zakim, mute annew 15:33:38 <Zakim> sorry, bhyland, I do not know which phone connection belongs to annew 15:33:50 <annew> Welcome the comments about signs of stability for projects 15:34:08 <annew> I am muted 15:34:09 <bhyland> zakim, who is on the call? 15:34:09 <Zakim> On the phone I see fadmaa, BernHyland, sandro, George_Thomas, Yigal, BartvanLeeuwen, [LC], +1.703.362.aabb, raphael, DruidSmith_, cygri, ??P37, +91.80.49.06.aadd 15:34:13 <cygri> ACTION: cygri to write some bullet points re viability of open source/academic tools/services for procurement section of best practices deliverable 15:34:14 <Biplav> Biplav here. I joined on the call after resolving my logistics issue. Also had an update on my action item. I have added my inputs for Action item 19 and updated the tracker to "Pending Review". 15:34:14 <trackbot> Created ACTION-25 - Write some bullet points re viability of open source/academic tools/services for procurement section of best practices deliverable [on Richard Cyganiak - due 2011-12-15]. 15:34:23 <Biplav> And I am on mute 15:34:36 <tgheen> Zakim, [LC] is me 15:34:36 <Zakim> +tgheen; got it 15:34:57 <annew> I am on voip 15:35:15 <bhyland> zakim, aadd is biplav 15:35:15 <Zakim> +biplav; got it 15:35:54 <fadmaa> Topic: Procurement 15:36:10 <fadmaa> bhyland: people who are working on that are not here 15:36:35 <fadmaa> ...suggest defering details till next week 15:37:52 <fadmaa> George: we might have some discussion about defining objective criteria to assess stability of projects 15:38:42 <fadmaa> bhyland: some people are working on what kind of guidance W3C can provide to people working on procurment 15:38:51 <fadmaa> ...we took licence out of the scope 15:39:31 <sandro> s/sandro/george/ 15:39:55 <annew> is there someone in an airport or train station? 15:40:03 <sandro> zakim, who is talking? 15:40:14 <Zakim> sandro, listening for 10 seconds I could not identify any sounds 15:40:19 <gatemezi> Here, they provide a list of tools for data publication and consumption http://www4.wiwiss.fu-berlin.de/latc/toollibrary/ 15:40:24 <sandro> zakim, who is on the call? 15:40:24 <Zakim> On the phone I see fadmaa, BernHyland, sandro, George_Thomas, Yigal, BartvanLeeuwen, tgheen, +1.703.362.aabb, raphael, DruidSmith_, cygri, ??P37, biplav 15:40:31 <sandro> zakim, who is on the call? 15:40:31 <Zakim> On the phone I see fadmaa, BernHyland, sandro, George_Thomas, Yigal, BartvanLeeuwen, tgheen, +1.703.362.aabb, raphael, DruidSmith_, cygri, ??P37, biplav 15:40:33 <sandro> zakim, who is talking? 15:40:44 <Zakim> sandro, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: raphael (4%) 15:40:51 <bhyland> q+ 15:40:53 <fadmaa> @George sorry couldn't hear you 15:40:56 <fadmaa> it was noisy 15:41:09 <Zakim> + +1.202.208.aaee 15:41:25 <fadmaa> bhyland: I'd rather avoid listing tools 15:41:31 <annew> zakim ??P37 is annew 15:41:38 <sandro> q+ 15:41:44 <fadmaa> ...but suggest focus on list of features and a checklist 15:42:05 <annew> q- 15:42:05 <fadmaa> ...the commercially supported product are more in the scope of the community directory 15:42:52 <fadmaa> ...procurment people working on Linked Data need more help with aspects like security 15:43:05 <fadmaa> ...and other list of features 15:43:14 <bhyland> ack bhyland 15:43:43 <fadmaa> sandro: I do not support listing products 15:44:08 <cygri> q+ 15:44:17 <cygri> q+ to ask about how technical this should get 15:44:23 <bhyland> Sandro: Recommend we list product "categories", defined by TimBL's 4 data principles. 15:44:23 <fadmaa> ...but generally we list functionality that the product should support 15:44:34 <annew> +1 to sandro 15:44:35 <bhyland> Sandro: Avoid listing specific products by name. 15:44:36 <fadmaa> ...e.g. support SPARQL, resolvable URIs 15:45:29 <cygri> q? 15:46:16 <sandro> q- 15:46:38 <fadmaa> cygri: how technical should the procurement document be? 15:47:03 <Zakim> - +1.703.362.aabb 15:47:07 <fadmaa> ...what level of details need to be in it? 15:47:35 <bhyland> cygri: Who is the audience? A technical evaluator or business manager? 15:47:45 <fadmaa> George: procurement report is mainly for project manager 15:48:06 <fadmaa> ...help them when deciding to buy a product 15:48:48 <fadmaa> bhyland: two group of people are involved. technical people and manager 15:48:51 <annew> q+ 15:49:05 <cygri> ack me 15:49:05 <Zakim> cygri, you wanted to ask about how technical this should get 15:49:14 <fadmaa> ...we need both general guidelines and technical details 15:49:54 <gatemezi> @bhyland: bhadley organization is linkedgov.org 15:50:06 <sandro> q+ 15:50:18 <Zakim> + +1.703.362.aaff 15:50:20 <Yigal> If anyone is still wondering about Hadley's project, it's linkedgov.org 15:50:28 <fadmaa> ...I think there should be a list of checklist for business people 15:51:35 <fadmaa> ChrisMusialek: I have experience with the procurement process. typically it does not go to the technical details 15:51:52 <cygri> zakim, who is speaking? 15:52:03 <Zakim> cygri, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: +1.202.208.aaee (91%), raphael (26%) 15:52:05 <bhyland> ChrisMusialek: I've seen very general guidance. It doesn't get into the very technical details, it doesn't make sense to prescribe to that level of granularity. Typically, the people writing those RFI/RFPs, they aren't very technical. 15:52:10 <fadmaa> ...in the procurement document technical details are not mentioned as they are usually not written by developers 15:52:19 <bhyland> zakim aaee is Chris 15:52:43 <cygri> zakim, aaee is Chris 15:52:43 <Zakim> +Chris; got it 15:52:55 <bhyland> @Fadmaa, that was Chris Musialek from US GSA speaking 15:53:14 <fadmaa> @bhyland thanks wil lcorrect that 15:53:28 <ChrisMusialek> ChrisMusialek has joined #gld 15:53:30 <sandro> sandro: So, I'm imagining that for each item on the checklist (eg 4-principles, sparql, etc), there's reference to the spec, some additional detail where the spec has too much wiggle room, maybe a reference to test suite, and some justification/explanation for this check list item. 15:54:08 <fadmaa> sandro: having a list with links to standards containing more details 15:54:22 <fadmaa> s/list/checklist/ 15:54:58 <annew> I've got to go. Can't tell if you could actually hear me or not on this call. 15:55:10 <annew> Will send an email about stability that I have been working on 15:55:13 <annew> Ron 's been helpful too 15:55:14 <annew> bye 15:55:15 <sandro> annew, I never heard your voice.... 15:55:18 <Zakim> -??P37 15:55:32 <fadmaa> ACTION: bhyland to pull the list of things to check and notify the group 15:55:32 <trackbot> Created ACTION-26 - Pull the list of things to check and notify the group [on Bernadette Hyland - due 2011-12-15]. 15:55:44 <fadmaa> TOPIC: F2F2 15:55:49 <George> http://www.w3.org/2011/gld/wiki/F2F2 15:56:15 <fadmaa> George: wiki page about F2F2 http://www.w3.org/2011/gld/wiki/F2F2 15:56:32 <Biplav> @bhyland please review update on action item 19 and close. Thanks. 15:57:16 <fadmaa> bhyland: we do have to work on agenda 15:57:48 <fadmaa> cygri: Michael will be the point of contact 15:58:00 <fadmaa> ...for the F2F meeting in Ireland 15:58:16 <fadmaa> ...no capability of video conferencing 15:58:49 <fadmaa> bhyland: chairs will be working on logistics... input is welcome on agenda 15:59:07 <Zakim> - +1.703.362.aaff 15:59:20 <fadmaa> George: procurement discussion will be continued next week 16:00:06 <fadmaa> bhyland: next week might be our last meeting this year or shall we have another one? 16:00:13 <sandro> no for 22nd, okay for 29th 16:00:13 <Biplav> +1 16:00:38 <gatemezi> ok for 22nd 16:00:45 <Biplav> ok for 22nd 16:00:46 <cygri> i'm ok with 22nd 16:00:49 <Yigal> OK for 22nd 16:00:52 <BartvanLeeuwen> okay bye 16:00:57 <bhyland> Thanks all! 16:01:01 <Zakim> -biplav 16:01:02 <fadmaa> rrsagent, generate minutes 16:01:02 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/12/08-gld-minutes.html fadmaa 16:01:05 <Zakim> -cygri 16:01:07 <Zakim> -sandro 16:01:15 <Zakim> -George_Thomas 16:01:16 <Yigal> Yigal has left #gld 16:01:17 <Zakim> -BernHyland 16:01:19 <Zakim> -Yigal 16:01:21 <Zakim> -BartvanLeeuwen 16:01:23 <Zakim> -ChrisMusialek 16:01:25 <Zakim> -tgheen 16:01:28 <gatemezi> -gatemezi 16:01:31 <Zakim> -raphael 16:01:35 <Zakim> -DruidSmith_ 16:01:53 <Zakim> -fadmaa 16:01:55 <Zakim> T&S_GLDWG()10:00AM has ended 16:01:57 <Zakim> Attendees were +030014aaaa, BernHyland, sandro, raphael, George_Thomas, Yigal, fadmaa, BartvanLeeuwen, +1.703.362.aabb, cygri, +1.202.566.aacc, DruidSmith_, +91.80.49.06.aadd, 16:02:00 <Zakim> ... tgheen, biplav, +1.202.208.aaee, +1.703.362.aaff, ChrisMusialek 16:04:53 <bhyland> zakim, aadd is Biplav 16:05:47 <Zakim> sorry, bhyland, I do not recognize a party named 'aadd' 16:09:22 <fadmaa> rrsagent, generate minutes 16:09:22 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/12/08-gld-minutes.html fadmaa # SPECIAL MARKER FOR CHATSYNC. 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