Chatlog 2011-06-29

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<sandro> scribe: sandro
<sandro> present: bern, sandro, george, cygri, irene, boris, cory, martin, raphael
<sandro> guest: Andy Schain, NASA
<sandro> guest: Anne Washington, GWU
<sandro> guest: Bob DuCharme
<sandro> guest: Chris Musialek, GSA
<sandro> guest: Daniel Mekonnen, Alion
<sandro> guest: David (DruidSmith) Smith, EPA
<sandro> guest: David Wood, 3 Round Stones
<sandro> guest: Ernest (Ernie) Lucier, NITRD
<sandro> guest: Faisal D'Souza, NITRD
<sandro> guest: Gerald Steeman, NASA
<sandro> guest: Greg (gtw) Williams, RPI
<sandro> guest: Kevin Merritt, Socrata
<sandro> guest: Kristin Rutland, NASA
<sandro> guest: Michael (MikeA) Aisenberg, MITRE
<sandro> guest: Michael (MikeP) Pendleton, EPA
<sandro> guest: Richard (Rick) Murphy, GSA
<sandro> guest: Ronald Reck, Rrecktek
<sandro> guest: Tina Gheen, NSF/LoC
<sandro> guest: Todd Pehle, Orbis
<sandro> guest: William Brafford, Revelytix
<sandro> guest: William Sanchez, Orbis
<sandro> guest: Yigal Arens, ISI 
<sandro> guest: Ansgar Scherp, Koblenz
<sandro> guest: Bart van Leeuwen, Fire Dept Amsterdam
<sandro> guest: Benedikt (bkaempgen) Kämpgen, FZI Karlsruhe
<sandro> guest: Hadley Beeman, LinkedGov
<sandro> guest: Jeanne Holm, NASA
<sandro> guest: Michael Hausenblas, DERI
<sandro> guest: Simon Wall, Australian Bureau of Statistics
<sandro> guest: Tope (tobo) Omitola, Soton
<sandro> guest: Zachary Whitley, JHU
<sandro> guest: George Strawn, NITRD
12:59:09 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #gld
12:59:09 <RRSAgent> logging to
12:59:13 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #gld
12:59:14 <George> George has joined #gld
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12:59:29 <sandro> Zakim, this is gld
12:59:29 <Zakim> ok, sandro; that matches SW_e-Gov(GLDWG)8:00AM
12:59:31 <sandro> Zakim, who is here?
12:59:31 <Zakim> On the phone I see +1.703.292.aaaa, +1.240.228.aabb (muted), +1.303.773.aadd, +44.776.871.aaee (muted), +1.757.604.aaff, ??P16
12:59:33 <Zakim> On IRC I see raphael, George, Zakim, RRSAgent, sandro, Jeanne_, gtw, ZachWhitley, Debbie, HadleyBeeman, boris, cygri, BartvanLeeuwen, martin, Ansgar_Scherp, trackbot
13:01:55 <Zakim> +Jeanne
13:03:00 <Bernadette> Bernadette has joined #gld
13:03:07 <sandro> topic: Welcome from NITRD
13:03:18 <Zakim> +??P28
13:03:23 <sandro> George Strawn talking about NITRD
13:03:55 <sandro> RRSAgent, make log public
13:04:03 <Zakim> + +49.721.aagg
13:04:26 <George>
13:04:32 <sandro> strawn: We've already made a Semantic Dashboard, for results of our 20 year history of activities.  We have some self-interest in hosting you.
13:04:33 <Bernadette> Bernadette has joined #gld
13:04:45 <bkaempgen> bkaempgen has joined #gld
13:05:47 <sandro> topic: Introductions
13:06:10 <sandro>
13:06:25 <sandro> Andy Schain, NASA
13:06:51 <BartvanLeeuwen> sandro, can I just edit and add myself to the remote list ?
13:06:54 <sandro> andy: I'm the new AC Rep for NASA.     We've had a few successful LD implementations within NASA
13:06:59 <sandro> yes, BartvanLeeuwen 
13:07:43 <sandro> Bernadette Hyland, 3 Round Stones (co-chair) 
13:08:19 <sandro> Bernadette: I've been doing Sem Tech since before RDF, experience at CEO of companies doing this work
13:09:01 <sandro> Bernadette: This is an INTERNATIONAL WG; lots of people from other countries on the phone.
13:09:07 <sandro> Bob DuCharme
13:09:25 <sandro> bobd: I'm with TQ, but not representing them today.
13:09:41 <sandro> Chris Musialek, GSA 
13:10:09 <sandro> chrism: A software developer at GSA, recently joined team, getting up to speed on LD
13:10:18 <sandro> Cory Casanave, Model-Driven Solutions
13:10:44 <sandro> cory: active in a lot of the standards, eg OMG, Arch EcoSystem,  Open Gov Vocabs WG
13:11:05 <sandro> David Wood, 3 Round Stones
13:11:20 <BartvanLeeuwen> volume is okay
13:11:38 <sandro> DavidW: I work with Bern at 3RS, I'm co-chair of RDF WG at W3C.      Been doing this stuff a long time.
13:12:02 <wbrafford> wbrafford has joined #gld
13:12:17 <sandro> Ernest Lucier, NITRD
13:12:41 <sandro> ernest: Our goal is spread the word, get other agencies to take advantage
13:12:50 <sandro> George Thomas, HHS (co-chair)
13:13:25 <sandro> George: Being working with SemWeb Tech and LD for a little while, recently complete project.   Happy to have the opportunity to co-chair this wrok
13:13:36 <sandro> Gerald Steeman, NASA (remote)
13:14:27 <sandro> gerald: At NASA STI program.   Got about 1m technical reports, 300k digitized, many more tech documents in metadata ref form, ...  we're interested in where linked data will take us in the future ---  we have a lot of stuff we could use more efficiently;
13:14:32 <sandro> Greg Williams, RPI
13:15:15 <sandro> gregw: representing RPI's LD project.  I mostly do low-level workflows on the team, converting data to RDF.    It might not be me long-term for RDF.
13:16:08 <sandro> Michael Pendleton, EPA
13:16:40 <sandro> pend: Work in datastds of key data objects, facs and chems we regulated.   working on substance registry
13:17:02 <sandro> pend: working on toxics release inventory, very important data set.   
13:17:16 <raphael> raphael has joined #gld
13:17:26 <sandro> Ronald Reck, Rrecktek
13:18:08 <sandro> ron: Consultant, I've worked on big RDF projects, inference for access control, versioning system, hoping to join at IE.  Was on GRDDL WG, Social Web IG, ...   
13:18:16 <sandro> Sandro Hawke, W3C (staff contact)
13:18:53 <raphael> Raphael, EURECOM (France), datalift project in France that aims to do the, interest in multimedia semantics, working on SW and LinkedData since 10 years
13:19:03 <BartvanLeeuwen> it was hard
13:19:09 <sandro> Todd Pehle, Orbis
13:19:10 <Bernadette> Sandro introduces himself, been involved in semweb stuff for 11 years. He is working also on SPARQL working group, RDF WG, along with GLD WG.
13:19:59 <sandro> todd: RDF, cloud computing, a number of programs using Linked Data.   Tasked to do LD Best Practices within org, so excited to be here
13:20:15 <sandro> todd: GIS / Spacial.      Geo VoCamp at LoC recently.
13:20:36 <sandro> William Brafford, Revelytix 
13:21:13 <sandro> braf: SW compa out of Baltimore, data federation, govt projects.   NYC data projects last fall.   Interested in govt data publishing space.
13:21:26 <sandro> dwood: Rev is one of the most innovative companies in this space.
13:21:33 <sandro> Yigal Arens, ISI 
13:21:51 <sandro> Arens: Worked in data space years ago.
13:22:07 <sandro> William Sanchez, Orbis 
13:22:32 <sandro> sanchez: I work with Todd.    NCI, CDC;  did LD for biomedical
13:22:45 <sandro> Kristin Rutland, NASA
13:23:02 <sandro> kristin: NASA with Vantage SW.    Tasked to help on content collaboration strategy
13:23:34 <sandro> Tina Gheen, NSF: Library director at NSF, temp assig to LoC
13:24:26 <sandro> zakim, who is on the call?
13:24:26 <Zakim> On the phone I see +1.703.292.aaaa, +1.240.228.aabb, +1.303.773.aadd, +44.776.871.aaee, +1.757.604.aaff, ??P16, Jeanne, ??P28, +49.721.aagg (muted)
13:24:38 <sandro> Bart van Leeuwen, / Fire Department Amsterdam,
13:25:37 <BartvanLeeuwen> did anyhing come through ?
13:26:04 <sandro> yes, BartvanLeeuwen we heard you.  :-)
13:26:17 <BartvanLeeuwen> okay, didn't get any feedback
13:26:17 <sandro> Boris Villazón Terrazas, U.P. Madrid
13:26:54 <sandro> boris: research in ontology group at Univ Polit. Madrid; working with several agencies
13:28:01 <sandro> Brodt-Giles
13:28:15 <sandro> Hadley Beeman, LinkedGov
13:28:30 <sandro> hadley: head of UK Govts board
13:28:41 <sandro> hadley: interested in doing it via gamification
13:28:57 <sandro> hadly: interesting in contributing ways to do this on the ground, with real take up
13:29:06 <sandro> Jeanne Holm, NASA
13:29:32 <sandro> Jeanne: I'm eveng for and Know. Arch at NASA.  Also, for AF and Navy.
13:29:59 <sandro> Jeanne: Working on making data reusable
13:30:24 <sandro> Zachary Whitley, JHU
13:30:43 <Bernadette> Prior to Hadley Beeman and Jeanne Holm, was Debbie Brodt-Giles, from NREL calling in from Colorado.  She is working on Open Energy International , sharing energy information with the world.
13:30:46 <raphael> s/hadly/hadley
13:30:47 <sandro> zach: A few LD/RDF projects, homeland protection, cross-agency data intg.
13:31:53 <sandro> Benedikt Kämpgen, FZI
13:32:23 <Bernadette> for ease of reference, see
13:33:13 <Zakim> +??P9
13:33:41 <gtw> Zakim, who is talking?
13:33:48 <martin> zakim, P9 is martin
13:33:48 <Zakim> sorry, martin, I do not recognize a party named 'P9'
13:33:54 <Zakim> gtw, listening for 12 seconds I heard sound from the following: Jeanne (28%), +1.703.292.aaaa (88%)
13:34:16 <martin> zakim,+??P9 is martin
13:34:16 <Zakim> sorry, martin, I do not recognize a party named '+??P9'
13:34:43 <Yigal> Yigal has joined #gld
13:35:57 <martin> zakim, ??P9 is martin
13:35:57 <Zakim> +martin; got it
13:36:11 <davidwood> davidwood has joined #gld
13:36:15 <Bernadette> Sandro is giving an overview of the W3C now, see presentation on
13:39:25 <Zakim> + +1.202.409.aahh
13:43:42 <cygri> cygri has joined #gld
13:43:44 <Bernadette> Sandro discussing the process, both formal & informal, around a working group.
13:44:47 <Bernadette> There is always input from two sides, the public and W3C members. Occasionally we take invited experts which we'll talk more about later.
13:46:08 <Bernadette> Within a Recommendation Track, every 3 mos a working draft is published.  People who really care will follow each working draft, but the public review really comes in at the Last Call for Working Draft.
13:47:21 <Bernadette> Implementation phase - if it is code, code needs to have been written and tested. If policy, people have to have tried it and confirmed it works.  This is the process to avoid publication of bad recommendations.
13:53:07 <boris> boris has joined #gld
13:54:11 <Zakim> + +49.261.287.aaii
13:54:53 <Ansgar_Scherp> just joined the telco
13:56:01 <HadleyBeeman> Have we lost the sound?
13:56:05 <HadleyBeeman> (or is it just me?)
13:56:19 <BartvanLeeuwen> just you
13:56:20 <Bernadette> can you try redialing in Hadley?
13:56:27 <HadleyBeeman> I will.  Thanks
13:57:06 <Zakim> + +44.776.871.aajj
13:57:20 <Zakim> - +49.261.287.aaii
13:57:22 <Bernadette> Hadley, I assume that is you with +44 prefix ...
13:57:30 <HadleyBeeman> Yes— all better now! 
13:57:31 <HadleyBeeman> Thanks
13:59:23 <HadleyBeeman> zakim, +44.776.871.aajj is HadleyBeeman
13:59:23 <Zakim> +HadleyBeeman; got it
13:59:54 <Zakim> - +44.776.871.aaee
14:00:25 <Michael> Michael has joined #gld
14:00:32 <chrism> chrism has joined #gld
14:00:51 <CoryCasanave> CoryCasanave has joined #GLD
14:02:24 <sandro> Bernadette: (underscoring international nature of group)
14:03:22 <sandro> David Smith, EPA
14:03:48 <sandro> dsmith:fairly new to LD, but getting out feet wet.   2.8m facilities.
14:04:18 <sandro> Daniel M:    next gen air traffic system, doubling of air traffic
14:04:32 <sandro> .. have to cope with all their systems and agency data.   Semantics is the way to handle that.
14:04:38 <sandro> Rick Murphy, GSA
14:04:59 <Zakim> - +1.202.409.aahh
14:05:06 <sandro> rick: I wrote w3c's linked gov data use case in 2008.
14:12:49 <Bernadette> Dave Wood encourages people who can *do* to participate in the GLD WG.  He commented on how much does in fact get done with a geographically distributed community.
14:13:41 <Bernadette> Dave Wood highlights that the out of scope issue "A vocabulary for expressing the similarity between entities, like owl:sameAs or skos:exactMatch" means it is not up to this WG to come up with new mechanisms.  We do expect to use existing mechanisms.
14:14:26 <user> user has joined #gld
14:14:37 <Bernadette> Can remote callers all hear Dave Wood speaking (mic is not close to him)
14:14:44 <HadleyBeeman> Yes
14:14:46 <Bernadette> ta
14:15:45 <tobo> tobo has joined #gld
14:16:07 <tobo> tobo has left #gld
14:16:25 <tobo> tobo has joined #gld
14:18:18 <bkaempgen> zakim, who's here?
14:18:18 <Zakim> On the phone I see +1.703.292.aaaa, +1.240.228.aabb (muted), +1.303.773.aadd, +1.757.604.aaff, ??P16, Jeanne, ??P28, +49.721.aagg (muted), martin (muted), HadleyBeeman
14:18:21 <Zakim> On IRC I see tobo, CoryCasanave, chrism, Michael, boris, cygri, Yigal, raphael, wbrafford, bkaempgen, Bernadette, George, Zakim, RRSAgent, sandro, Jeanne_, gtw, ZachWhitley,
14:18:23 <Zakim> ... Debbie, HadleyBeeman, BartvanLeeuwen, martin, Ansgar_Scherp, trackbot
14:18:39 <tobo> Yes, tobo == Tope Omitola
14:24:34 <BartvanLeeuwen> I miss a entry for 'events'
14:26:05 <Jeanne_> Will be offline for about 30 minutes then back.
14:26:55 <Zakim> -Jeanne
14:28:25 <sandro> ernie: How will you get Govt agencies to join, which seems necessary for this charter?
14:28:43 <BartvanLeeuwen> current speaker is not understandable
14:28:53 <Bernadette> Rick Murphy suggested a broader engagement model, beyond just federal gov't agencies.  He has worked with other standards organizations who have a broader model.
14:28:58 <sandro> rick: W3C shouild consider a broader participation model.
14:29:12 <HadleyBeeman> Thanks, Bernadette
14:29:21 <sandro> rick: It's too limiitted to only sign up agencies.
14:29:57 <sandro> Michael Aisenberg, MITRE 
14:30:26 <cygri_> cygri_ has joined #gld
14:30:26 <sandro> Irene Polikoff, TopQuadrant 
14:30:48 <sandro> irene: CEO of TQ; we participate in stds, but this new for me.
14:31:05 <sandro> Kevin Merritt, Socrata
14:31:20 <sandro> kevin: We power many open govt platforms
14:31:27 <Zakim> +mhausenblas
14:31:48 <sandro> Richard Cyganiak, DERI
14:32:25 <sandro> cyg: We have a many gov data and LD activities.   I'd like to talk about what we do for metadata and cube data.
14:32:27 <davidwood> davidwood has joined #gld
14:33:14 <Bernadette> Hi Richard, do you slides you can link to?
14:33:29 <Zakim> -HadleyBeeman
14:33:30 <Bernadette> add link by your name for two slots ...
14:33:31 <Zakim> -martin
14:33:45 <Zakim> -??P28
14:34:15 <tobo> Tope Omitola, University of Southampton
14:34:46 <Zakim> -??P16
14:36:45 <bkaempgen> zakim, +49.721.aagg has bkaempgen
14:36:45 <Zakim> +bkaempgen; got it
14:40:53 <cygri> my slides are on the wiki
14:40:55 <cygri> 1.
14:41:01 <cygri> 2.
14:43:16 <BartvanLeeuwen> BartvanLeeuwen has joined #gld
14:44:23 <Zakim> +??P0
14:45:47 <Zakim> +??P3
14:46:23 <Zakim> +HadleyBeeman
14:46:29 <BartvanLeeuwen> zakim P3 is BartVanLeeuwen
14:46:55 <BartvanLeeuwen> zakim, ??P3 is BartVanLeeuwen
14:46:56 <Zakim> +BartVanLeeuwen; got it
14:48:08 <Zakim> - +1.303.773.aadd
14:48:39 <Zakim> +??P5
14:48:54 <martin> zakim, ??P5 is martin
14:48:54 <Zakim> +martin; got it
14:49:00 <martin> zakim, mute me
14:49:00 <Zakim> martin should now be muted
14:50:11 <BartvanLeeuwen> is there a hint + tips on using zakim and sip dialin ??
14:50:34 <Zakim> + +1.303.773.aakk
14:53:22 <davidwood> Scribenick: davidwood
14:53:25 <sandro>
14:53:42 <HadleyBeeman> For BartvanLeeuwen:
14:54:00 <cygri>
14:55:41 <davidwood> Cygri: presenting metadata for datasets, especially two vocabularies being developed at DERI that are relevant to this group.
14:56:02 <davidwood> ... One of the major barriers has finds ology
14:56:29 <davidwood> s/finds ology/findability/
14:57:01 <davidwood> ...dcat is a data catalog vocal
14:57:22 <davidwood> s/vocal/vocab/
14:57:51 <davidwood> ...There are about 50 government data catalogs currently published.
14:59:45 <davidwood> ...dcat is based around Dublin Co, SKOS and FOAF.
15:00:58 <DruidSmith> DruidSmith has joined #GLD
15:01:33 <davidwood> ...cygri showed several uses and users of dcat, especially Spain.
15:02:13 <Zakim> + +49.261.287.aall
15:02:56 <DruidSmith> msg Bernadette I uploaded my slide deck to Slideshare: - but I don't yet have W3C credentials to edit the wiki and add it...
15:03:17 <Zakim> -HadleyBeeman
15:03:53 <Zakim> -martin
15:04:50 <davidwood> davidwood has joined #gld
15:05:07 <Zakim> +??P5
15:05:22 <davidwood> cygri next discussed VoID, a vocabulary to describe 4 and 5 star data sets.
15:05:28 <martin> zakim, ??P5 is martin
15:05:28 <Zakim> +martin; got it
15:06:02 <davidwood> ...VoID has been submitted as a W3 IG Note.
15:06:02 <martin> zakim, mute me
15:06:02 <Zakim> martin should now be muted
15:06:51 <davidwood> ...widely used, including by DBpedia, OpenLink, and others.
15:07:01 <Zakim> +Jeanne
15:07:19 <davidwood> ...used to generate the LOD cloud diagram.
15:09:02 <cygri> part 2:
15:09:20 <davidwood> cygri: The Irish government has been slow to adopt LOD, so their work is funded by the EU.
15:09:25 <davidwood> cygri: Now presenting Publishing statistics with the Data Cube vocabulary.
15:11:12 <davidwood> ...Many government agencies collect and wish to disseminate statistical data.  A data model is needed to allow for the publishing of statistical data in RDF.
15:12:14 <davidwood> ......characteristics include aggregate data, numerical data, time series and multi-dimensional data.
15:13:43 <davidwood> ...Governments have an incentive to collect and disseminate statistical data, so the data is often of high quality.  The "sales process" of LOD is often easier with statistics people.
15:14:28 <davidwood> ...He presented an example of a data cube (regarding life expectancy).
15:15:47 <davidwood> ...The Data Cube vocabulary is used to model statistics in RDF.  It is based on SDMX, an XML schema started in 2001.
15:16:39 <davidwood> ...SDMX covers more than data cubes, so only the core model was reused.
15:19:42 <Jeanne_> Jeanne_ has joined #gld
15:20:14 <davidwood> ...There is a draft specification.  More tools are needed.  There are several existing datasets, such as those by, 2006 Irish census (2011 in progress)...
15:20:20 <Zakim> -martin
15:20:55 <davidwood> ....The Data Cube vocabulary is applicable for OLAP-style data warehouses.
15:21:07 <Zakim> +??P5
15:23:04 <BartvanLeeuwen>  OT: meeting takes place in DC timezone right  so 11:22 now ?
15:23:24 <gtw> yes
15:23:30 <davidwood> ...The SDMX Consortium has NOT been approached, which needs to happen before any standard is based on this work.  A patent search has not yet occurred.
15:25:18 <davidwood> Kevin Merritt, Socrata, presented regarding's current status.
15:26:24 <davidwood> ...Socrata is intended to be a bridge between government agencies and the analysts, consumers that want it.
15:26:32 <davidwood> is delivered as a cloud-based service.
15:26:38 <Zakim> -cygri
15:26:59 <davidwood> ...Also used by some state and local governments.
15:27:55 <davidwood> ...There are APIs for developers.
15:29:43 <davidwood> ...Agencies can publish their data and Socrata will federate into a common catalog.
15:29:55 <sandro>
15:30:46 <davidwood> Sandro: Remote attendees can now see the slides at the above URL.
15:35:01 <Ansgar_Scherp> slides are also linked from the W3C wiki page
15:35:17 <davidwood> Kevin Merritt: data federation in Socrata does not currently allow non-Socrata customers to federate their data.  They are working toward that.
15:35:36 <Ansgar_Scherp> anyone knows details about the federation mechanism used at
15:35:41 <davidwood> ...Their Linked Data support is currently "sprinkled in".
15:36:15 <Zakim> -??P5
15:37:50 <davidwood> ...They plan to have a RESTful interface to allow distributed update of a catalog to allow more agencies to play.  They are interested in working with this WG to do this in a Linked Data way.
15:38:10 <tobo> Hello all, I have to rush off now, but will join you tomorrow. I'll be giving my talk tomorrow.
15:38:13 <Zakim> - +1.757.604.aaff
15:38:49 <tobo> tobo has left #gld
15:39:02 <davidwood> ...They are "not a Linked Data or Semantic Web company", but want their data to be linkable and expressible.
15:40:03 <sandro> kevin: I'm not the LD expert, but Greg Lockhart couldn't be here today
15:40:16 <BernadetteHyland> BernadetteHyland has joined #gld
15:40:54 <sandro> reck: MOU-driven, the problem is political more than technical
15:41:27 <sandro> kevin: decent is good, because folks want to control their own data, ESPECIALLY police depts.   if they can control the release, they share more.
15:41:31 <Zakim> + +1.757.604.aamm
15:41:38 <ZachWhitley> ...They are "not a Linked Data or Semantic Web company" sounds like their marketing message. The question is why don't they feel comfortable marketing themselves as a Semantic Web Company?
15:41:46 <davidwood> David Wood volunteered to speak with Greg Lockhart about adding Linked Data support to Socrata.
15:41:57 <Yigal> Yigal has joined #gld
15:43:17 <Bernadette> Zach - I'll raise your question if you don't ... 
15:43:24 <sandro> kevin: We use "transparency" as a calling card, to open the conversation, but then we help them see ways to save a lot of money sharing data better.
15:44:23 <sandro> davidw: My concern is that a lot of the data is in the 1-star category, where this group is about moving up the value chain, because at the 5 star level data can be combiined and repurposed.
15:45:13 <ZachWhitley> haha please do. It's probably easier for you to get the floor being there in person.
15:45:19 <sandro> ... We have a lot of agencies who publish as they were funded to do.  That subset of data, done in support of particular program, is generally not in the form an analyst or consumer needs.  So the LD approach is anwer questions the govt didnt presuppose.
15:45:44 <sandro> davidwood: I encourage your business to think about these benefits.
15:46:20 <sandro> kevin: I appreciate all that.   We're a software company.   We didnt start as prof. engagements.
15:47:22 <sandro> kevin: Most orgs will publish in a form that's not optimized for consumers.
15:48:17 <sandro> davidwood: 90% aligned, but I think you *should* care.
15:48:32 <sandro> kevin: We're looking for market driven reasons to support this.
15:48:56 <sandro> GeorgeS: Think of consumers, where your consumers are computers.
15:49:58 <sandro> rickm: Contra, there can be values to previously unknown relationships.   BUT if we can't contemplate all the relationships, that is of course a concern for the agencies.  This WG might have an important topic: explain that well, and still articulate that value, while not presenting a risk.
15:50:16 <sandro> rickm: eg info that is published separately, but which combines to form sec risk.
15:51:10 <Zakim> -??P0
15:51:19 <ZachWhitley> ZachWhitley has joined #gld
15:51:35 <ZachWhitley> Was trying to download some RDF from a socrata site and it crashed my browser
15:51:43 <davidwood> Todd Pehle, Orbis, presented re GIS data in a government setting with Linked Data.
15:52:11 <ZachWhitley> There was an option to download in RDF
15:53:51 <davidwood> ...Orbis focuses on location data on the cloud described using semantic approaches.
15:55:44 <davidwood> ...The key distinction between LOD geo data and earlier approaches is that we are now dealing with a worldwide database of distributed location information.
15:57:58 <davidwood> ..."Thus the lines between the SemWeb and the Geo Web could become blurry"
15:58:16 <sandro>
15:59:40 <sandro> "neogeography"
15:59:56 <sandro> (DIY mapping)
16:00:13 <davidwood> ...he proposes a lightweight government Linked locations approach.
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16:01:11 <davidwood> ..."citizen sensors", similar/related to
16:01:14 <sandro> VGI -- Volunteered Geographic Information
16:01:25 <Zakim> +??P49
16:03:47 <davidwood> ...enthusiastic about GeoSPARQL.
16:05:00 <ZachWhitley> GeoD2RQ?
16:05:11 <davidwood> ...Need tools and best practices from this community and WG.
16:05:24 <ZachWhitley> Did I hear that right? he's talking quickly.
16:06:57 <davidwood> ZachWhitley, I heard him say D2RQ, but not GeoD2RQ...
16:07:16 <sandro> geosemantics wg at ogc
16:07:20 <ZachWhitley> I believe that geosparql has been integrated into ESRI's geoportal server
16:07:47 <ZachWhitley>
16:08:25 <ZachWhitley> sorry about that
16:10:37 <sandro> davidwood: cf Provenance WG, and Tom Heath
16:10:55 <sandro> Topic: Jeanne Holm presentation on Data.Gov
16:11:41 <davidwood> davidwood: See the w3 Provenance WG re event decisions about recording provenance in RDF.  Also, see Tom Heath's NEAR data set.
16:12:15 <davidwood> Jeanne Holme, evangelist, presented next.
16:13:21 <davidwood> aimed at economy building, not just the publication of data.
16:13:56 <davidwood> ...trying to break down stovepipes; 156 agencies currently publishing on
16:14:26 <davidwood> ...granted some agencies only publishing PDFs, but the first step is the hardest,
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16:17:19 <davidwood> site needs to serve many constituents, so sometimes you need to know where to go.
16:18:11 <davidwood> ...390,654 datasets available as of May 18, 2011, up from 47 two years earlier.
16:18:35 <davidwood> ...204m hits to, presumably total.
16:18:36 <Carlo> Carlo has joined #gld
16:19:09 <davidwood> ...Current focus on making it easier to find data.
16:19:41 <davidwood> ...One of the most popular data sets is the EPA's Toxic Release Inventory (TRI).
16:23:06 <davidwood> ...Working on developing and supporting "communities" that are driven by data.  Trying to drive innovation and respond to emergent events (e.g. Haiti, fires, floods).
16:24:01 <sandro> jeanne: Hundreds of new data sets from folks who didnt think they had data to share until they started participating in our forums, where they learned what data people wanted.
16:27:31 <davidwood> ...Goal: make data accessible and Linked 5 star.
16:28:46 <davidwood> ...The communi
16:29:07 <davidwood> focuses on publishing and promoting.
16:29:39 <BartvanLeeuwen> does the charater discussion time is set ?
16:29:46 <sandro> (second webcam working now....    reload
16:31:13 <Zakim> - +1.240.228.aabb
16:31:13 <gtw> ooh. much better latency on the new, small image
16:31:34 <sandro> Anne Washington
16:31:45 <Zakim> +??P30
16:32:14 <BartvanLeeuwen> in light of the agenda is the time for Charter discussion stil 14:15 ? ( then I'll be back after dinner here )
16:32:37 <Zakim> - +1.303.773.aakk
16:32:43 <Zakim> -??P49
16:32:53 <sandro> gtw, there's a tradeoff in speed vs resolution.   for the slides, I figure slow but hires is best.
16:33:03 <Zakim> - +49.721.aagg
16:33:09 <BartvanLeeuwen> since you said you gona reschedule
16:33:24 <Zakim> -??P30
16:33:29 <BartvanLeeuwen> Bernadette, I stil hear you 
16:33:49 <Bernadette> Yes Bart, I think discussion of charter is warranted ... working on rejigging schedule in afternoon now.
16:33:50 <Zakim> -Jeanne
16:34:07 <BartvanLeeuwen> okay, then I'll be back for that after my dinner
16:34:19 <BartvanLeeuwen> I have some things I miss in there
16:34:34 <BartvanLeeuwen> I'm off this is my 'office' time
16:34:44 <Zakim> -BartVanLeeuwen
16:34:47 <Zakim> - +49.261.287.aall
16:35:06 <BartvanLeeuwen> so I'll be back for that at 20:15 my time then
16:35:09 <BartvanLeeuwen> enjoy lunch !
16:35:16 <Zakim> - +1.757.604.aamm
16:37:24 <Zakim> + +49.261.287.aann
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17:03:44 <HadleyBeeman> I'm afraid I must be off for dinner— enjoy the afternoon, all.  Speak to you in the morning!
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17:24:07 <Zakim> + +49.261.287.aaoo
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17:39:44 <BernadetteHyland> We are about to start the afternoon session for GLD F2F 
17:41:49 <BernadetteHyland> please reload the wiki page for latest schedule changes.
17:42:33 <sandro> topic: Dave Smith, EPA
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17:43:02 <BernadetteHyland> Dave G. Smith from EPA on EPA Linked Data Directions
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17:56:19 <BernadetteHyland> Next is Irene Polikoff from TopQuadrant on Linked Data Practices 
17:56:36 <Zakim> +??P4
17:56:46 <BernadetteHyland> Her talk is about what she hopes this working group will accomplish.
17:56:57 <BartvanLeeuwen> Zakim, ??P4 is BartvanLeeuwen 
17:56:57 <Zakim> +BartvanLeeuwen; got it
18:02:19 <BartvanLeeuwen> url ?
18:02:37 <BartvanLeeuwen> nevermind had in  history
18:04:30 <BartvanLeeuwen> sandro, I have a image now
18:05:32 <sandro> BartvanLeeuwen, you see two images, I hope.   Big of slides, small of people.
18:05:50 <BartvanLeeuwen> ack
<sandro> scribe: sandro
18:07:20 <sandro> Irene: Should folks be using owl:imports for Linked Data?
18:07:55 <sandro> Irene: What information should be returned for a resource?
18:08:19 <sandro> Irene: How to expess vocabulary and data mappings?
18:09:05 <BartvanLeeuwen> I assume that these questions are to be answered by this group right ?
18:10:20 <sandro> (yes, we'll at least try, or point people to solutions.)
18:10:52 <BartvanLeeuwen> I would be willing to participate in that part for best practices
18:11:13 <BartvanLeeuwen> I see that the charter items part is postponed to 14:45 right ?
18:11:46 <sandro> yes
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18:12:01 <BernadetteHyland> David Wood now speaking on Dave Wood, URI Design & PURLs. Please refresh wiki to get URL for presentation
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18:15:48 <sandro> (notes about URI opacity)
18:16:45 <sandro> IMHO URI Opacity is like API opacity -- it's about one module talking to another module only through the documented interface
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18:22:56 <BartvanLeeuwen> BernadetteHyland, can I write a comment on the charter here before I leave ?
18:25:51 <sandro> sure.
18:26:26 <sandro> davidwood: use "natural keys" in building URIs   -- Rob Styles
18:27:12 <BartvanLeeuwen> okay, I miss 2 Items in the charter, somewhat closely related
18:28:12 <Zakim> + +1.240.228.aarr
18:28:36 <sandro> cory: If you put data in URIs, you get into trouble.
18:29:47 <BartvanLeeuwen> 1) Standard Vocabularies area: Events: a standard way to describe events that happen ,are planned or happend in the past
18:29:50 <sandro> davidwood: It's okay to use opaque strings, I wouldnt blame you ...    but these are nice, and if they are socially wrong, the software doesn't break (because it's treated as opaque).
18:31:53 <BartvanLeeuwen> this way it would be possible to correlate the relation between various events in various organizations
18:31:53 <BartvanLeeuwen> for my work I used e.g.:
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18:32:25 <sandro> BartvanLeeuwen, it's too late to add something to the scope.   So, keep that in mind for the next round, if this goes well.....    No question, events are important.   We just had to start somewhere for this group, and not bite off too much.
18:32:51 <BartvanLeeuwen> k, too bad
18:33:27 <sandro> There may be other vocab dev efforts at W3C soon that could tackle events, too.  Not sure how gov-centric it needs to be.
18:33:33 <BernadetteHyland> Next up is Greg Williams, RDF Converter URIs and International Catalog
18:34:38 <BartvanLeeuwen> off now back tommorow
18:34:41 <Zakim> -BartvanLeeuwen
18:34:49 <Ansgar_Scherp> Events and places need each other, thus I liked that Todd mentioned them
18:34:57 <sandro> Take care, Bart.
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18:37:17 <raphael_> LODE is a vocabulary for representing Linked Descriptions of Events, see
18:38:16 <raphael_> LODE has been recently adopted by the UK Archives hub,
18:38:52 <sandro> raphael, Bart (who was asking about that) just left....
18:52:56 <sandro> irene: I don't think getting data into RDF is *instead* of modeling.
18:53:10 <sandro> bern: Well, some people triplify their data and its still flat.
18:54:06 <sandro> bobd: Once it's XML, you can use XSLT to clean it up.  Once it's triples, you can use SPARQL, etc, to clean it up.
18:54:30 <sandro> davidwood: RDF is doing research.   There's no limit to how much we can figure out how better to do this.
18:54:54 <sandro> gtw: We don't necessarily step over modeling, we just allow it.
18:56:59 <sandro> topic: Bob DuCharme
18:57:08 <BernadetteHyland> Now on deck is Bob DuCharme on SKOS.  He recently authored the O'Reilly publication "SPARQL"
18:57:28 <sandro> bobd: best practice 2 and 6 (legacy data) motivate our use of skos
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18:59:48 <BernadetteHyland> To people with library science experience, using SKOS makes Linked Data much more approachable.  First, controlled vocabularies, then taxonomies, thesauri and ontologies.
19:02:02 <Zakim> - +1.303.773.aaqq
19:03:05 <sandro> bobd: Get by with just: prefLabel, broader, definition
19:03:30 <sandro> bobd: also altLabel, related, note
19:03:53 <Zakim> +??P0
19:04:49 <BernadetteHyland> Bob DuCharme: signature quote, "SKOS gives you 90-95% of what you need to get started with Linked Data, and it is very easy to add the last 5-10%"
19:11:46 <Zakim> - +1.240.228.aarr
19:13:21 <sandro> topic: Add Some Info About Yourself To The WIki
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19:18:06 <Zakim> -??P0
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19:21:53 <sandro> topic: Charter Discussion
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19:22:24 <sandro> Bern: looking at people taking ownership of deliverables
19:23:04 <BernadetteHyland> Cory: Working on Vocabulary Management catalog effort for Data Architecture Subcommitee for USG CIO Counsel.
19:23:37 <BernadetteHyland> Cory: W3C has more capacity to publish a standard than CIO DAS group.
19:28:44 <sandro> bern: controlled vocab for size.
19:29:59 <sandro> size, years in business, contact info, website, ...
19:30:34 <sandro> irene: focus on expertise in this area -- have you done projects in this area, how many, what size, how many people trained in this.
19:31:39 <sandro> pend: You'll want to know what contract vehicles are available
19:32:07 <sandro> bern: Need inptuts from EU/UK on this, at least.
19:32:39 <sandro> bern: What's important to know about deployments?
19:32:50 <sandro> bern: Ernie?
19:33:05 <Zakim> + +49.261.287.aass
19:33:23 <sandro> bern: Sometimes we have leave out our company name.      
19:33:31 <sandro> davidwood: primes hiding their subs
19:34:04 <sandro> irene: how many users, how long has it been in production, ...
19:35:18 <sandro> sandro: Can 3rd parties enter the info?
19:35:28 <sandro> .. if the agency doesnt want to
19:36:01 <sandro> gt: Generally, yes, we can fill out the form about a particular project.
19:36:30 <sandro> ernie: People may not want to advertise budget
19:36:38 <sandro> cory: $50m for 5 users, etc.
19:36:55 <sandro> bern:       
19:37:31 <sandro> gt: CCR example is a good angle on dogfood.         Increasing visbility of fee-for-service = happy
19:37:53 <sandro> chrism: Answer the incentive quesiton why folks would add to this.
19:38:09 <sandro> bern: simple, small is beautiful.    eg  "1 project happening at HHS"
19:38:45 <sandro> sandro: maybe keep it very simple, --- contact, title, domain
19:38:47 <Ansgar_Scherp>
19:39:05 <sandro> gt: ask if they made uris, used OWL, ....
19:39:17 <sandro> davidwood: ask for the URIs they minted!
19:39:46 <sandro> folks dont want to be the first or the last
19:40:14 <sandro> irene: It used to seem govt was on the leading edge here, but now it's falling behind, maybe?
19:41:53 <sandro> sandro: ask how many stars they get, or the questions that lead to the stars.
19:42:17 <sandro> cory: Do we want to have discussion/feedback area?
19:42:51 <sandro> gt: Let's reduce changes to game the system.
19:43:11 <sandro> ernie: can't just ask one company to come in and talk -- level playing field.
19:43:24 <sandro> bern: directory isn't just w3c members.
19:45:54 <sandro> cory: vendor can list their projects
19:47:13 <BernadetteHyland> Dave Wood:It is easier to respond to abuse than to over engineer from the onset.
19:47:59 <sandro> sandro: CTIC directory of gov data uses journalistic coverage as sources, I believe.
19:48:14 <BernadetteHyland> Bernadette: Suggest we have a current version of SWEO public use cases for deployments.
19:48:58 <sandro> model on
19:49:33 <sandro> irene: goal?
19:49:53 <sandro> bern: folks playing with it want to take the next step
19:51:09 <sandro> sandro: for finding out who should be in group and review our deliverables
19:51:24 <sandro> bobd: also for journalists and bloggers
19:51:54 <sandro> gt: Also for procurement.    If none of their current contractors do this stuff, they might conclude no one does that stuff.
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19:52:12 <sandro> dwood: So what kind of info, within an agency would help you?
19:52:45 <sandro> gt: as in UseCases page, "SW technolgoies used" -- tied in with Procurement deliverable
19:53:19 <sandro> (something better than mailing
19:53:37 <sandro> cory: They only need to know who to send the RFP to.
19:54:23 <sandro> bern: veteran owned, small business, woman owned, etc.
19:55:20 <sandro> tina: Also for folks making the argument to management?      I know vocabs is diff in the charter, but ... eg LoC looking at things done with law...   so index by app domain.
19:55:45 <sandro> irene: govt only?   there is eg WestLaw.
19:56:12 <sandro> tina: LoC expects their stuff to be used by WestLaw, Lexis-Nexis.
19:57:12 <sandro> bern: we heard LoC had a pro-open-source policy.     "do you provide commercial support"   "is there a floss version"
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19:58:42 <sandro> davidw: It might make sense to have Deployments broken out into a site like the /UseCases site.
19:59:27 <sandro> sandro: some will be very short.
19:59:50 <sandro> sandro: I just dont want to set a high bar for use cases.
19:59:58 <sandro> gt: One Pager is VERY popular.
20:00:16 <sandro> sandro: your limit is 3 triples, and no literals.
20:03:12 <sandro> ACTION: Brafford to draft wiki page from F2F1 discussion about community directory
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20:24:24 <gtw> Zakim, who is here?
20:24:24 <Zakim> On the phone I see +1.703.292.aaaa, +49.261.287.aass
20:24:26 <Zakim> On IRC I see JeremyCarroll, Ansgar_Scherp2, Yigal, BernadetteHyland, wbrafford, bkaempgen, cygri, DruidSmith, CoryCasanave, Zakim, RRSAgent, sandro, gtw, Ansgar_Scherp, trackbot
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20:39:49 <Zakim> SW_e-Gov(GLDWG)8:00AM has ended
20:39:51 <Zakim> Attendees were +1.703.292.aaaa, +1.240.228.aabb, +49.721.aacc, +1.303.773.aadd, +44.776.871.aaee, +1.757.604.aaff, Jeanne, martin, +1.202.409.aahh, +49.261.287.aaii, HadleyBeeman,
20:39:56 <Zakim> ... cygri, bkaempgen, BartVanLeeuwen, +1.303.773.aakk, +49.261.287.aall, +1.757.604.aamm, +49.261.287.aann, +49.261.287.aaoo, +1.303.988.aapp, +1.303.773.aaqq, +1.240.228.aarr,
20:39:59 <Zakim> ... +49.261.287.aass, +1.303.773.aatt
20:42:28 <sandro> RRSAgent, pointer?
20:42:28 <RRSAgent> See
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