IRC log of sparql on 2011-12-20

Timestamps are in UTC.

00:33:46 [chimezie]
chimezie has joined #sparql
00:48:03 [chimezie]
chimezie has joined #sparql
00:54:22 [chimezie]
chimezie has joined #sparql
01:48:46 [chimezie]
chimezie has joined #sparql
02:33:13 [chimezie]
chimezie has joined #sparql
03:12:40 [chimezie]
chimezie has joined #sparql
15:00:24 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #sparql
15:00:24 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/12/20-sparql-irc
15:00:26 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs world
15:00:26 [Zakim]
Zakim has joined #sparql
15:00:28 [trackbot]
Zakim, this will be 77277
15:00:28 [Zakim]
ok, trackbot; I see SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM scheduled to start now
15:00:29 [trackbot]
Meeting: SPARQL Working Group Teleconference
15:00:29 [trackbot]
Date: 20 December 2011
15:00:34 [sandro]
zakim, code?
15:00:34 [Zakim]
the conference code is 77277 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), sandro
15:00:38 [bglimm]
bglimm has joined #sparql
15:00:42 [sandro]
trackbot, start meeting
15:00:44 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs world
15:00:46 [trackbot]
Zakim, this will be 77277
15:00:46 [Zakim]
ok, trackbot; I see SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM scheduled to start now
15:00:47 [trackbot]
Meeting: SPARQL Working Group Teleconference
15:00:47 [trackbot]
Date: 20 December 2011
15:01:07 [kasei]
Zakim, who is here?
15:01:07 [Zakim]
SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM has not yet started, kasei
15:01:09 [Zakim]
On IRC I see bglimm, Zakim, RRSAgent, MattPerry, cbuilara, Olivier, iv_an_ru, chimezie, MacTed, swh, AndyS, pgearon, kasei, trackbot, NickH, ya, ericP, sandro
15:01:48 [sandro]
zakim, this is sparql
15:01:49 [Zakim]
ok, sandro; that matches SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM
15:01:55 [sandro]
zakim, who is here?
15:01:55 [Zakim]
On the phone I see +1.781.899.aaaa, kasei, +1.603.897.aabb, ??P15, ??P11, ??P17, ??P16
15:01:57 [Zakim]
On IRC I see bglimm, Zakim, RRSAgent, MattPerry, cbuilara, Olivier, iv_an_ru, chimezie, MacTed, swh, AndyS, pgearon, kasei, trackbot, NickH, ya, ericP, sandro
15:02:12 [bglimm]
Who I am I
15:02:24 [MattPerry]
zakim, aabb is me
15:02:24 [Zakim]
+MattPerry; got it
15:02:26 [AndyS1]
AndyS1 has joined #sparql
15:02:33 [bglimm]
How can I do hands up?
15:02:34 [sandro]
zakim, aaaa is me
15:02:34 [Zakim]
+sandro; got it
15:02:36 [swh]
Zakim, ??P15 is me
15:02:36 [Zakim]
+swh; got it
15:02:51 [swh]
q-
15:02:57 [swh]
Zakim, q=
15:02:57 [Zakim]
swh, if you meant to query the queue, please say 'q?'; if you meant to replace the queue, please say 'queue= ...'
15:02:57 [sandro]
queue=
15:03:06 [bglimm]
Zakim, ??P16 is me
15:03:06 [Zakim]
+bglimm; got it
15:03:08 [chimezie]
Zakim, passcode
15:03:08 [Zakim]
I don't understand 'passcode', chimezie
15:03:16 [cbuilara]
q+
15:03:16 [sandro]
zakim, code?
15:03:17 [Zakim]
the conference code is 77277 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), sandro
15:03:17 [swh]
chimezie, 77277
15:03:18 [bglimm]
Zakim, mute me
15:03:18 [Zakim]
bglimm should now be muted
15:03:19 [cbuilara]
q-
15:03:23 [Zakim]
+pgearon
15:03:40 [cbuilara]
zakim, aaaaa is me
15:03:40 [Zakim]
sorry, cbuilara, I do not recognize a party named 'aaaaa'
15:03:43 [Zakim]
+[IPcaller]
15:03:47 [AndyS1]
zakim, IPcaller is me
15:03:47 [Zakim]
+AndyS1; got it
15:03:55 [Zakim]
-??P11
15:03:59 [chimezie]
ty
15:04:15 [Zakim]
+??P11
15:04:19 [cbuilara]
zakim, ??P11 is me
15:04:19 [Zakim]
+cbuilara; got it
15:04:26 [Zakim]
+ +1.216.368.aacc
15:04:31 [sandro]
Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2011OctDec/0402
15:04:33 [sandro]
chair: Sandro
15:04:35 [chimezie]
Zakim, +1.216.368.aacc is me
15:04:36 [sandro]
sandro has changed the topic to: SPARQL WG http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2011OctDec/0402.html
15:04:36 [Zakim]
+chimezie; got it
15:04:41 [Zakim]
+ +1.617.324.aadd
15:04:43 [chimezie]
Zakim, mute me
15:04:43 [Zakim]
chimezie should now be muted
15:04:54 [kasei]
http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/Scribe_List
15:04:59 [bglimm]
Zakim, unmute me
15:04:59 [Zakim]
bglimm should no longer be muted
15:05:52 [bglimm]
Zakim, mute me
15:05:52 [Zakim]
bglimm should now be muted
15:05:57 [AndyS1]
zakim, who is on the phone?
15:05:57 [Zakim]
On the phone I see sandro, kasei, MattPerry, swh, ??P17, bglimm (muted), pgearon, AndyS1, cbuilara, chimezie (muted), +1.617.324.aadd
15:06:00 [sandro]
NickH, ?
15:06:38 [sandro]
zakim, aadd is Eric
15:06:38 [Zakim]
+Eric; got it
15:06:59 [Olivier]
Olivier also on the phone
15:07:28 [sandro]
zakim, ?P17 is Olivier
15:07:28 [Zakim]
sorry, sandro, I do not recognize a party named '?P17'
15:07:31 [sandro]
zakim, P17 is Olivier
15:07:31 [Zakim]
sorry, sandro, I do not recognize a party named 'P17'
15:07:34 [sandro]
zakim, ??P17 is Olivier
15:07:34 [Zakim]
+Olivier; got it
15:07:43 [sandro]
zakim, pick a scribe
15:07:43 [Zakim]
Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose cbuilara
15:08:00 [cbuilara]
ok
15:08:04 [cbuilara]
yep
15:08:09 [sandro]
scibe: cbuilara
15:08:14 [sandro]
scribe: cbuilara
15:08:35 [sandro]
http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/PostLastCall
15:08:49 [cbuilara]
Sandro: Agenda, to approve LC documents, post last call
15:09:05 [cbuilara]
Sandro: any other issue?
15:09:38 [bglimm]
Minutes
15:09:39 [AndyS1]
We aren't repub JSON results in this cycle, are we?
15:09:39 [bglimm]
http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2011-12-13
15:10:01 [cbuilara]
Sandro: do we have a meeting next week?
15:10:06 [sandro]
PROPOSED: skip Dec 27th meeting, next mtg Jan 3rd
15:10:16 [cbuilara]
Sandro: any objections to that?
15:10:18 [pgearon]
seconded
15:10:18 [bglimm]
+1
15:10:21 [cbuilara]
+1
15:10:22 [chimezie]
i can hear u
15:10:24 [sandro]
RESOLVED: skip Dec 27th meeting, next mtg Jan 3rd
15:10:35 [sandro]
topic: Query
15:11:01 [bglimm]
I reviewed it and I am ok with publishing Query
15:11:06 [cbuilara]
Sandro: any comments or concerns?
15:11:09 [bglimm]
Zakim, unmute me
15:11:09 [Zakim]
bglimm should no longer be muted
15:11:29 [cbuilara]
Andy: LC page got reduced
15:11:48 [cbuilara]
Greg: I did not get really into the aggregate
15:12:01 [cbuilara]
Greg: but based on the dicussions last week, I'm happy with it
15:12:13 [cbuilara]
s/dicussions/discussions
15:12:45 [bglimm]
I think my action ACTION-547 can be closed: http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/track/actions/547
15:12:47 [AndyS1]
See also http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/PostLastCall2 (:-|)
15:13:58 [kasei]
q+
15:13:59 [cbuilara]
Andy: we have to decide last call period
15:14:32 [sandro]
ack kasei
15:14:40 [cbuilara]
Greg: adding all the fnction URIs, can we do it after last call?
15:14:46 [cbuilara]
Andy1: we can do it
15:14:55 [sandro]
andy: we can do the namespace document later
15:15:07 [cbuilara]
s/Andy1/AndyS1
15:15:29 [cbuilara]
AndyS1: it is something editorial
15:15:37 [sandro]
sandro: so we might change the namespace URI itself
15:15:40 [sandro]
AndyS: yes
15:16:24 [kasei]
http://www.w3.org/ns/sparql#
15:17:54 [sandro]
http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/query-1.1/rq25.xml
15:18:01 [sandro]
says "sfn:http://www.w3.org/ns/sparql# @@(process) Ensure page populated (see
15:18:01 [sandro]
this list)."
15:18:15 [cbuilara]
sandro: Looks ok to me
15:18:20 [cbuilara]
sandro: any other issues?
15:18:30 [sandro]
PROPOSED: Publish 'Query' as Last Call
15:18:38 [sandro]
+1 (W3C)
15:18:46 [kasei]
+1 (RPI)
15:18:47 [cbuilara]
sandro: please vote with our organization
15:18:47 [swh]
+1 (Garlik)
15:18:48 [AndyS1]
+1 (ASF)
15:18:49 [pgearon]
+1 Revelytix
15:18:50 [bglimm]
+1 (Uni Ulm)
15:18:50 [Olivier]
+1 INRIA
15:18:51 [MattPerry]
+1 (Oracle)
15:18:53 [cbuilara]
+1 (UPM)
15:18:54 [chimezie]
+1 (IE)
15:19:09 [ericP]
+1 (W3C) (redundant against 2011-12-20T15:18:38Z <sandro> +1 (W3C))
15:19:18 [sandro]
RESOLVED: Publish 'Query' as Last Call
15:19:36 [sandro]
topic: Entailment
15:19:38 [sandro]
http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/PostLastCall#Entailment
15:20:00 [cbuilara]
sandro: Birte, there is an action on that
15:20:22 [cbuilara]
bglimm: I'm working on the document right now, I replied agreen changes
15:20:29 [sandro]
birte: Axel and Markus reviews, satisfied
15:20:32 [cbuilara]
sandro: any concerns
15:20:53 [sandro]
PROPOSED: Publish 'Entailment Regimes' as Last Call
15:20:59 [sandro]
+1 W3C
15:21:05 [AndyS1]
+1 (ASF)
15:21:05 [pgearon]
+1 Revelytix
15:21:06 [kasei]
+1 (RPI)
15:21:08 [cbuilara]
+1 (UPM)
15:21:09 [bglimm]
+1 (Uni Ulm)
15:21:10 [MattPerry]
+1 (Oracle)
15:21:13 [chimezie]
+1 (IE)
15:21:15 [Olivier]
+1 INRIA
15:21:34 [sandro]
RESOLVED: Publish 'Entailment Regimes' as Last Call
15:21:46 [sandro]
topic: Update
15:22:11 [pgearon]
hang on...
15:22:54 [cbuilara]
pgearon: made couple of editorial changes
15:23:21 [cbuilara]
pgearon: document ready to go
15:24:02 [cbuilara]
sandro: Paul, do you want anybody to go over the changes?
15:24:21 [swh]
Zakim, who's speaking?
15:24:32 [Zakim]
swh, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: pgearon (35%), sandro (54%), swh (20%)
15:24:44 [swh]
Zakim, mute me
15:24:44 [Zakim]
swh should now be muted
15:24:49 [cbuilara]
sandro: anybody have an opinion on Paul's email?
15:24:55 [kasei]
I was happy with the DB-5 response.
15:24:59 [swh]
me too
15:25:01 [AndyS1]
q+
15:25:01 [cbuilara]
sandro: is somebody willing to look over?
15:25:07 [sandro]
ack AndyS
15:25:21 [cbuilara]
AndyS: there is a comment from David Wood
15:25:56 [cbuilara]
pgearon: not related to SPARQL update
15:26:56 [AndyS1]
http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/Comments#Post_Last_Call_Comments
15:27:33 [cbuilara]
sandro: which comment from David Wood?
15:27:59 [AndyS1]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg-comments/2011Dec/0015.html
15:28:03 [AndyS1]
DW-1
15:28:10 [cbuilara]
bglimm:I have one comment, I drafted another response for David Zimmerman
15:28:21 [cbuilara]
bglimm: please, look at it
15:28:25 [bglimm]
http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/CommentResponse:AZ-1-2
15:29:07 [AndyS1]
Response looks good to me.
15:29:51 [kasei]
looks fine
15:31:31 [swh]
yes, have read it
15:31:38 [sandro]
sandro: Steve, Greg, have you looked at DB-5 and the changes it describes?
15:31:55 [swh]
I also didn't follow up w.r.t. the document
15:31:59 [cbuilara]
kasei: I'm happy with it
15:32:13 [cbuilara]
sandro: any other concern about update?
15:32:18 [sandro]
PROPOSED: Publish 'Update' as Last Call
15:32:22 [sandro]
+1 W3C
15:32:26 [cbuilara]
+1 UPM
15:32:28 [Olivier]
+1 INRIA
15:32:32 [MattPerry]
+1 Oracle
15:32:33 [kasei]
+1 (RPI)
15:32:40 [swh]
0 (Garlik) [I've not read it in enough detail]
15:32:47 [bglimm]
I would like to abstain as I never found the time to properly read the document
15:32:50 [chimezie]
0 (IE)
15:33:04 [swh]
s/I've/we've/
15:33:06 [sandro]
bglimm, just to 0 for abstain
15:33:10 [bglimm]
0
15:33:19 [bglimm]
o (Uni Ulm)
15:33:28 [bglimm]
0 (Uni Ulm)
15:33:29 [pgearon]
+1 Revelytix
15:33:39 [AndyS1]
+1 (ASF)
15:33:47 [sandro]
RESOLVED: Publish 'Update' as Last Call
15:34:45 [sandro]
topic: Service Description
15:35:43 [cbuilara]
sandro: chimezie comments fixed
15:36:05 [chimezie]
Zakim, unmute me
15:36:05 [Zakim]
chimezie should no longer be muted
15:36:10 [cbuilara]
kasei: I did not get to pass them around again, I was hoping to hearing more follow up response
15:36:55 [kasei]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2011OctDec/0311.html
15:38:11 [cbuilara]
kasei: the only issue is the update subsets, which is the second point in that email thread, your comment on discovering service description
15:38:32 [cbuilara]
kase: was the following point in that email, I couldn't make sense of that email
15:38:48 [cbuilara]
s/kase/kasei
15:39:39 [cbuilara]
chimezie: I do not have any other outstanding issues at the end of this thread, I'm fine with publishing as last call
15:40:01 [cbuilara]
kasei: issue on discovering text, purely an editorial thing
15:40:11 [cbuilara]
kasei: I think we are good to go
15:40:42 [bglimm]
Zakim, mute me
15:40:42 [Zakim]
bglimm should now be muted
15:40:47 [sandro]
chimezie: when you have one spec that has something illdefined, because it's not in line with another, ... is that a reason not to publish one... That will come up.
15:40:53 [cbuilara]
chimezie: certain things in the editorial process that are not very clear, and shoudl be mentioned now
15:41:15 [cbuilara]
chimezie. this issue will come out in the graph store protocol
15:41:19 [chimezie]
Zakim, mute me
15:41:19 [Zakim]
chimezie should now be muted
15:41:20 [sandro]
PROPOSED: Publish 'Service Description' as Last Call
15:41:22 [kasei]
+1 (RPI)
15:41:25 [AndyS1]
+1 (ASF)
15:41:26 [sandro]
+1 (W3C)
15:41:29 [Olivier]
+1 INRIA
15:41:29 [cbuilara]
+1 (UPM)
15:41:33 [MattPerry]
+1 (Oracle)
15:41:35 [pgearon]
+1 Revelytix
15:41:45 [swh]
0 (Garlik) [we've not read it in enough detail]
15:41:59 [sandro]
RESOLVED: Publish 'Service Description' as Last Call
15:42:45 [cbuilara]
kasei: only editorial changes for protocol
15:43:04 [sandro]
PROPOSED: Publish 'Protocol' as Last Call
15:43:09 [kasei]
+1 (RPI)
15:43:11 [swh]
+1 (Garlik)
15:43:14 [AndyS1]
+1 (ASF)
15:43:15 [sandro]
+0 (W3C) not quite sure the state here
15:43:21 [bglimm]
+1 (Uni Ulm)
15:43:21 [MattPerry]
+1 (Oracle)
15:43:22 [pgearon]
+1 Revelytix
15:43:24 [cbuilara]
+1 (UPM)
15:43:36 [Olivier]
0 INRIA (have not studied the doc)
15:43:37 [sandro]
RESOLVED: Publish 'Protocol' as Last Call
15:44:59 [sandro]
andy: no need for LC2 for JSON.
15:45:36 [cbuilara]
sandro: publication date January 2nd
15:46:01 [cbuilara]
sandro: any objection?
15:46:05 [AndyS1]
fine
15:46:21 [cbuilara]
sandro: how long should we do it?
15:46:35 [cbuilara]
AndyS: 4 weeks I think
15:46:51 [chimezie]
chimezie has joined #sparql
15:46:52 [cbuilara]
sandro: any objection?
15:47:12 [sandro]
PROPOSED: we'll publish as soon as practical after the moratiorium, and have a review period of 4 weeks
15:47:19 [AndyS1]
+1
15:47:28 [sandro]
+1
15:47:34 [MattPerry]
+1
15:47:39 [sandro]
RESOLVED: we'll publish as soon as practical after the moratiorium, and have a review period of 4 weeks
15:47:55 [cbuilara]
sandro: graph store protocol
15:48:08 [chimezie]
Zakim, unmute me
15:48:08 [Zakim]
chimezie should no longer be muted
15:48:17 [sandro]
topic: Graph Store HTTP Protocol
15:48:37 [sandro]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2011OctDec/0403.html
15:49:12 [AndyS1]
I am not that keen on skipping CR (it's a community/social thing) but will not formally object.
15:49:25 [swh]
+1 to AndyS1
15:51:55 [sandro]
Proposed: we'll include the text in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2011OctDec/0403.html in each LC draft
15:52:00 [cbuilara]
sandro: can we go ahead with this text?
15:52:04 [sandro]
+1
15:52:13 [kasei]
+1
15:52:24 [sandro]
RESOLVED: we'll include the text in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2011OctDec/0403.html in each LC draft
15:52:32 [sandro]
topic: graph store htttp protocol
15:53:22 [cbuilara]
sandro: I think we are far away of a LC status
15:53:58 [cbuilara]
sandro: the one thing I care is the SPARQL update should be accepted as a patch
15:55:35 [cbuilara]
sandro: mu argument is that we should require that everybody in this use case, if you are able to use graph protocol, you should implement SPARQL update
15:55:49 [ericP]
q+ to say that i'd prefer text like "there is a subset of resources, which we will call POST2Update, which MUST follow this behavior..."
15:55:58 [swh]
agreed, I think very high cost is ok
15:56:16 [sandro]
andy: I think high cost of implementation is enough to ignore a SHOULD.
15:56:27 [ericP]
q-
15:56:37 [AndyS1]
I think high cost is sufficient not do a SHOULD. Also, CAPS text not in a "informative"
15:56:44 [cbuilara]
sandro: label section as informative
15:56:45 [swh]
SHOULD - http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc2119.txt
15:57:06 [Zakim]
-AndyS1
15:57:44 [AndyS1]
Thx zakim
15:57:59 [Zakim]
+[IPcaller]
15:58:06 [AndyS1]
zakim, IPCaller is me
15:58:06 [Zakim]
+AndyS1; got it
15:58:18 [sandro]
sandro: I don't understand how we can have "should" statements in a non-normative section.
15:58:53 [cbuilara]
kasei: the alternative is to say is that there is this behavior
15:59:07 [cbuilara]
s/kasei/chimezie
15:59:17 [sandro]
s/chimezie/eric
16:00:20 [cbuilara]
sandro: take out the recommended word
16:00:32 [sandro]
sandro: I'm fine as long as this is really non-normative.
16:01:04 [AndyS1]
Have to go. See you on email.
16:02:21 [AndyS1]
AndyS1 has left #sparql
16:02:26 [Zakim]
-AndyS1
16:02:34 [swh]
I can stay for 10 mins
16:02:40 [bglimm]
5 min is ok
16:02:44 [pgearon]
I can't stay
16:03:30 [kasei]
q+ to say it's not just comments. I'm still not happy with the text about service descriptions.
16:03:33 [cbuilara]
chimezie: there are more comments, wiki not up to date
16:03:47 [sandro]
looking at http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/Comments re graphstore
16:03:54 [ericP]
q+ to say that i suspect that we won't get a satisfactory closure in 5 mins and that the cost of delaying doesn't appear as high as the cost of premature publication
16:04:11 [ericP]
cbuilara, i'll move to adjourn
16:04:20 [sandro]
chime: I think it's okay to publish next draft before closing loop with Arnaud
16:04:44 [Zakim]
-cbuilara
16:05:14 [swh]
+1 ro ericP
16:05:31 [sandro]
kasei: There's also a lot of text about service description that I'm not happy with
16:05:45 [sandro]
chimezie: we agreed on that in principle
16:06:01 [sandro]
thank pgearon
16:06:08 [Zakim]
-chimezie
16:06:11 [Zakim]
-pgearon
16:06:17 [bglimm]
OK, I am off too
16:06:22 [swh]
bye everyone
16:06:24 [MattPerry]
bye
16:06:24 [bglimm]
Merry Christmas to all of you
16:06:25 [Zakim]
-swh
16:06:25 [sandro]
ADJOURNED
16:06:25 [ericP]
ADJOURNED
16:06:26 [Zakim]
-Olivier
16:06:32 [Zakim]
-kasei
16:06:32 [sandro]
great work everyone, happy holidays!
16:06:33 [Zakim]
-MattPerry
16:06:36 [Zakim]
-bglimm
16:06:57 [Zakim]
-Eric
16:07:00 [Zakim]
-sandro
16:07:00 [Zakim]
SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM has ended
16:07:02 [Zakim]
Attendees were +1.781.899.aaaa, kasei, +1.603.897.aabb, MattPerry, sandro, swh, bglimm, pgearon, AndyS1, cbuilara, chimezie, +1.617.324.aadd, Eric, Olivier
16:39:00 [swh]
swh has joined #sparql
18:30:50 [Zakim]
Zakim has left #sparql
21:12:27 [AndyS]
AndyS has joined #sparql
22:17:06 [AndyS]
AndyS has joined #sparql
23:04:23 [chimezie]
chimezie has joined #sparql