IRC log of webrtc on 2011-12-15

Timestamps are in UTC.

06:56:00 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #webrtc
06:56:00 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/12/15-webrtc-irc
06:56:03 [dom]
trackbot, prepare meeting
06:56:05 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs world
06:56:07 [trackbot]
Zakim, this will be
06:56:07 [Zakim]
I don't understand 'this will be', trackbot
06:56:08 [trackbot]
Meeting: Web Real-Time Communications Working Group Teleconference
06:56:08 [trackbot]
Date: 15 December 2011
06:56:16 [dom]
Zakim, this will be RTC
06:56:16 [Zakim]
ok, dom; I see UW_Web RTC()2:00AM scheduled to start in 4 minutes
06:56:47 [Zakim]
UW_Web RTC()2:00AM has now started
06:56:53 [Zakim]
+hta_
06:57:07 [hta]
hta has joined #webrtc
06:57:22 [hta]
zakim, who is on?
06:57:22 [Zakim]
I don't understand your question, hta.
06:57:50 [dom]
Zakim, who is on the phone?
06:57:52 [Zakim]
On the phone I see hta_
06:58:02 [hta]
thanks dom
06:58:08 [Zakim]
+ +1.703.334.aaaa
06:58:10 [hta]
and good morning
06:58:30 [hta]
zakim, hta_ is hta
06:58:30 [Zakim]
+hta; got it
06:58:40 [Zakim]
+??P3
06:58:41 [Zakim]
+ +46.1.07.14.aabb
06:58:45 [dom]
Zakim, ??P3 is me
06:58:45 [Zakim]
+dom; got it
06:58:57 [dom]
Zakim, who is on the phone?
06:58:57 [Zakim]
On the phone I see hta, +1.703.334.aaaa, +46.1.07.14.aabb, dom
06:59:06 [Zakim]
+ +46.1.07.14.aacc
06:59:18 [derf]
Zakim, +1.703.334.aaaa is me
06:59:18 [Zakim]
+derf; got it
06:59:28 [stefanh]
Zakim, aacc is stefanh
06:59:28 [Zakim]
+stefanh; got it
06:59:44 [Zakim]
+Dan
07:00:17 [gang_]
gang_ has joined #webrtc
07:00:32 [Zakim]
+David
07:00:41 [Zakim]
+??P7
07:00:45 [Zakim]
+ +0086136832aadd
07:00:46 [burn]
burn has joined #webrtc
07:00:53 [burn]
zakim, who's on the phone?
07:00:53 [Zakim]
On the phone I see hta, derf, +46.1.07.14.aabb, dom, stefanh, Dan, David, ??P7, +0086136832aadd
07:01:02 [Zakim]
+ +1.857.288.aaee
07:01:05 [Zakim]
+[IPcaller]
07:01:07 [Zakim]
+ +1.610.889.aaff
07:01:17 [burn]
zakim, Dan is Dan_Burnett
07:01:17 [Zakim]
+Dan_Burnett; got it
07:01:22 [burn]
zakim, I am Dan_Burnett
07:01:22 [Zakim]
ok, burn, I now associate you with Dan_Burnett
07:01:24 [Zakim]
-[IPcaller]
07:01:25 [Zakim]
+ +358.505.22aagg
07:01:26 [Zakim]
+ +86255662aahh
07:01:28 [adambe]
adambe has joined #webrtc
07:01:30 [dom]
Zakim, who's noisy?
07:01:40 [Zakim]
dom, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: hta (23%), derf (16%), +0086136832aadd (71%), David (13%)
07:01:42 [Zakim]
+ +82.31.30.1.aaii
07:01:45 [dom]
Zakim, mute aadd
07:01:45 [Zakim]
+0086136832aadd should now be muted
07:01:48 [Zakim]
+[IPcaller]
07:02:03 [tpanton]
tpanton has joined #webrtc
07:02:04 [nstratford]
zakim, [IPcaller] is me
07:02:04 [Zakim]
+nstratford; got it
07:02:04 [hta]
dom, thanks again
07:02:09 [Zakim]
+ +91.80.67.89.aajj
07:02:09 [CE]
CE has joined #webrtc
07:02:50 [juberti]
juberti has joined #webrtc
07:03:31 [juberti]
Zakim, who's here?
07:03:31 [Zakim]
On the phone I see hta, derf, +46.1.07.14.aabb, dom, stefanh, Dan_Burnett, David, ??P7, +0086136832aadd (muted), +1.857.288.aaee, +1.610.889.aaff, +358.505.22aagg, +86255662aahh,
07:03:35 [Zakim]
... +82.31.30.1.aaii, nstratford, +91.80.67.89.aajj
07:03:36 [Zakim]
On IRC I see juberti, CE, tpanton, adambe, burn, gang_, hta, RRSAgent, Zakim, nstratford, stefanh, trackbot, richt, derf, dom, ed, rektide
07:03:41 [juberti]
Zakim, aaee is juberti
07:03:41 [Zakim]
+juberti; got it
07:04:39 [dom]
ScribeNick: stefanh
07:04:41 [Parthasarathi]
Parthasarathi has joined #webrtc
07:05:07 [stefanh]
Harald: checking who's on line
07:05:43 [stefanh]
zakim, aabb is adambe
07:05:43 [Zakim]
+adambe; got it
07:05:45 [tpanton]
tpanton = tim panton @ voxeo
07:06:04 [CE]
ce = christophe eyrignoux
07:06:38 [juberti]
juberti = justin @ google
07:06:53 [stefanh]
Markus Isomäki on call (not in IRC)
07:07:54 [stefanh]
harald: agenda OK?
07:08:07 [dom]
Topic: Status of API document
07:08:25 [stefanh]
....agenda OK...
07:08:25 [jesup]
jesup has joined #webrtc
07:08:37 [stefanh]
Next topic: API document status
07:08:56 [dom]
-> http://dev.w3.org/2011/webrtc/editor/webrtc.html WebRTC API editors draft, latest release on Dec 12
07:09:29 [stefanh]
adambe giving update on the API documet
07:09:32 [dom]
-> http://www.w3.org/2007/10/htmldiff?doc1=http%3A%2F%2Fdev.w3.org%2F2011%2Fwebrtc%2Feditor%2Fwebrtc-20111017.html&doc2=http%3A%2F%2Fdev.w3.org%2F2011%2Fwebrtc%2Feditor%2Fwebrtc.html Changes since previous draft
07:09:57 [stefanh]
adambe: what is new in the editor's draft of Dec 12
07:10:32 [stefanh]
moved access to mic cam to separate document (but still in the webrtc document - will be removed)
07:10:39 [Zakim]
+Narm_Gadiraju
07:10:45 [stefanh]
...a lot of editorial changes
07:11:05 [stefanh]
....separating tracks into separate audio and video track lists
07:11:32 [stefanh]
....motivation: align with media element (which now has separate track lists for audio and video)
07:11:39 [narm_gadiraju]
narm_gadiraju has joined #webrtc
07:11:54 [dwim_phone]
dwim_phone has joined #webrtc
07:11:55 [stefanh]
....examples updated to be aligned with specificaion
07:12:38 [stefanh]
....a lot of editorial: broken links, clean up, removing stuff that did not render.
07:13:03 [stefanh]
hta: in next sections we will talk about planned changes.
07:13:22 [stefanh]
hta: planned changes:
07:13:41 [stefanh]
remove getUserMedia, track list
07:14:09 [AndroUser]
AndroUser has joined #webrtc
07:14:16 [stefanh]
adambe: move state handling from stream to track before adding "addTrack/removeTrack" funtions
07:14:30 [stefanh]
will come in next version
07:14:45 [dom]
q+ to ask about publication of an updated working draft in January
07:15:14 [stefanh]
hta: let's talk about changes
07:16:01 [stefanh]
...make track lists of MediaStream's mutable (to allow add and remove of tracks) is coming
07:16:11 [stefanh]
will be introduced very soon
07:16:48 [stefanh]
...what I have been working on for some time is when "addstream" is fired. before this was tied to data in
07:16:59 [stefanh]
...at least one of the tracks,
07:17:15 [tpanton]
zakim, who's here?
07:17:15 [Zakim]
On the phone I see hta, derf, adambe, dom, stefanh, Dan_Burnett, David, ??P7, +0086136832aadd (muted), juberti, +1.610.889.aaff, +358.505.22aagg, +86255662aahh, +82.31.30.1.aaii,
07:17:19 [Zakim]
... nstratford, +91.80.67.89.aajj, Narm_Gadiraju
07:17:19 [stefanh]
....but now decided to fire when the signaling carried out
07:17:20 [Zakim]
On IRC I see AndroUser, dwim_phone, narm_gadiraju, jesup, Parthasarathi, juberti, CE, tpanton, adambe, burn, gang_, hta, RRSAgent, Zakim, nstratford, stefanh, trackbot, richt,
07:17:22 [Zakim]
... derf, dom, ed, rektide
07:17:58 [stefanh]
....tracks will then be in muted state, and become live as data starts arriving.
07:18:24 [stefanh]
...the simple app will not have to be changes, but gives more control to the advanced app.
07:19:22 [stefanh]
....Moving state handling to track level also makes things more consistent at "error" cases (like camer unplugged but mic still present)
07:19:50 [soohyunc]
soohyunc has joined #webrtc
07:19:51 [stefanh]
...Quite a big change, but seems to make a lot of sense.
07:20:09 [stefanh]
hta: not in the released spec yet, but in the github version.
07:20:29 [stefanh]
hta: more changes will be discussed when going through actions.
07:20:47 [dom]
q+ to ask about echo cancellation handling
07:20:56 [stefanh]
hta: do the editors have open items that they want feedback on from the group?
07:21:16 [stefanh]
dom: couple of questions
07:22:07 [stefanh]
....1. Echo cancellation. How much control in the API? Needs to be watched.
07:22:52 [stefanh]
...2. Updating the WD according to W3C rules. A new dated WD needed every 3rd month.
07:23:19 [stefanh]
...so we should plan for a release at least before the f2f
07:24:12 [stefanh]
hta: EC (Echo Cancellation) need to know the relation of what streams out of the device and what is played
07:24:20 [jesup]
Agree - see derf's comment tonight on the list
07:24:54 [stefanh]
...not so simple as saying it's a PeerConnection detail. Need to wait for a proposal on the list.
07:25:15 [stefanh]
justing: Randell has a proposal on the list.
07:25:20 [dom]
-> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webrtc/2011Dec/0038.html Randell's proposal on echo cancellation
07:25:35 [stefanh]
Randell: yes, I proposed a simple API
07:26:00 [stefanh]
...a comment made to make a media options API to prepare for extensions
07:26:18 [stefanh]
justing: that could be a starting point for a proposal.
07:26:31 [stefanh]
hta: randell, could you take an action?
07:26:35 [hta]
action randell: get the echo cancellation into the spec
07:26:35 [trackbot]
Sorry, couldn't find user - randell
07:26:36 [stefanh]
randell: sure
07:27:25 [stefanh]
ACTION: propose EC API on jesup
07:27:25 [trackbot]
Sorry, couldn't find user - propose
07:27:41 [stefanh]
adambe: should be simple to use
07:27:50 [stefanh]
randell: yes of course
07:28:33 [stefanh]
hta: next question: should we use bugzilla?
07:29:04 [stefanh]
adambe: talked about that earlier, makes sense to introduce now,
07:29:35 [stefanh]
justing: agree, to be used when wee start iterating on a solution.
07:30:23 [stefanh]
burn: agrees to this. Use list to start discussions, but when getting into details bugzilla to be used
07:31:09 [stefanh]
adambe: will be some more work (mark duplicates, policing,...), sometimes move stuff back to list
07:31:27 [dom]
(we could also use W3C's tracker, in which case we can track issues by mentioning their nickname (e.g. ISSUE-2))
07:31:40 [stefanh]
burn: yes, html wg has clear rules for when to move things back, closing items, ...
07:31:46 [dom]
("mentioning" in emails sent to the list)
07:32:11 [stefanh]
justin: nice to have bugzilla to discuss details of something agreed to do
07:32:30 [stefanh]
...should adopt bugzilla.
07:32:54 [soohyunc]
soohyunc has joined #webrtc
07:32:58 [stefanh]
hta: if we use bugzilla: should things proposed to bugzilla also go to the list
07:33:09 [soohyunc]
justin seems to introduce a bit of.echo while talking to the zakim system
07:33:21 [stefanh]
adambe: you can't just comment in a bug and expect that all have read it.
07:34:14 [stefanh]
dom: one way to make bugzilla part of the discussion is to post bugzilla discussions on the mailing list
07:34:24 [stefanh]
justin: makes sense to do that.
07:35:11 [stefanh]
hta: we have support for using bugzilla, set up in a way that all changes are sent to the mail list. OK?
07:35:21 [dom]
ACTION: Dom to configure bugzilla ofr Web RTC with activity sent to public mailing list
07:35:21 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-20 - Configure bugzilla ofr Web RTC with activity sent to public mailing list [on Dominique Hazaël-Massieux - due 2011-12-22].
07:35:48 [stefanh]
hta: finished API document status
07:35:56 [stefanh]
hta: media capture TF
07:36:10 [dom]
action Stefan: ensure that Randell get the echo cancellation into the spec
07:36:10 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-21 - Ensure that Randell get the echo cancellation into the spec [on Stefan Håkansson - due 2011-12-22].
07:36:20 [stefanh]
....set up to take care of things common between webrtc and DAP in terms of media capture
07:36:28 [stefanh]
....having an active discussion
07:37:03 [stefanh]
....much on the media stream track interface, some wanting stream and track to be defined by TF
07:37:31 [stefanh]
...but chairs hesitant as there is a tight connection between streams, tracks and peerconnection
07:37:39 [stefanh]
...but open for more input
07:38:11 [stefanh]
dom: I tend to agree that part of media stream api will have to be integrated in getusermedia
07:38:38 [stefanh]
...not clear how we can split things out cleanly
07:39:02 [stefanh]
.....not so simple, need a specific proposal at some stage.
07:39:22 [stefanh]
hta: we need a proposal to bring to webrtc
07:39:44 [Zakim]
- +0086136832aadd
07:40:02 [stefanh]
dom: not only about documents, but also about getting apis that can be implemented and tested as standalone components
07:40:22 [stefanh]
hta: yes, and there is a strong link between the things
07:40:41 [dom]
s/we need a proposal to bring to webrtc/changes to mediastream can always be proposed to WebRTC/
07:40:41 [stefanh]
hta: the TF is working on a req and scenarion document
07:40:49 [stefanh]
....not yet finished.
07:41:00 [dom]
-> https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/dap/raw-file/tip/media-stream-capture/scenarios.html MediaStream Capture Scenarios
07:41:16 [stefanh]
...any other comments on the media cap TF?
07:41:36 [stefanh]
...move to report of status of actions
07:42:57 [stefanh]
...first on richt to bring new use cases. overtaken by TF?
07:43:23 [stefanh]
stefanh: I think the action was to bring some AR use cases
07:43:36 [stefanh]
....should be brought to the TF anyway
07:43:39 [dom]
ACTION-9: needs to be sent to the Media Capture Task Force
07:43:39 [trackbot]
ACTION-9 Send new use cases on getUserMedia to webRTC mailing-list notes added
07:43:56 [stefanh]
hta: we leave it open as the TF doesn't have a tracker
07:44:04 [dom]
ACTION-13?
07:44:04 [trackbot]
ACTION-13 -- Daniel Burnett to add Capabilities API to ROAP and API spec -- due 2011-12-31 -- OPEN
07:44:04 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/2011/04/webrtc/track/actions/13
07:44:29 [stefanh]
hta: add hints and stats API. burn, any comment?
07:44:43 [stefanh]
burn: not much to report, not much done yet
07:44:55 [dom]
ACTION-14?
07:44:55 [trackbot]
ACTION-14 -- Harald Alvestrand to revise Data API proposal and mail to list -- due 2011-11-16 -- OPEN
07:44:55 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/2011/04/webrtc/track/actions/14
07:45:06 [stefanh]
hta: revise data API
07:46:03 [stefanh]
justing: published a new version on the list, addresses some comments on the list
07:46:12 [Zakim]
- +82.31.30.1.aaii
07:46:40 [stefanh]
....looking into the Stream API proposal to see if that is applicable
07:47:10 [stefanh]
....want's to see a unified way to handle media and data streams
07:47:23 [stefanh]
...more discussion on the list.
07:47:55 [stefanh]
hta: to be incorporated in spec or not?
07:48:26 [stefanh]
hta: appropriate time to put into draft
07:49:12 [stefanh]
....would like to incorporate in spec by an editor.
07:49:37 [stefanh]
burn: only two of the editors on call.
07:49:55 [hta]
action hta: Incorporate data api into spec (find editor volunteer)
07:49:56 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-22 - Incorporate data api into spec (find editor volunteer) [on Harald Alvestrand - due 2011-12-22].
07:49:57 [dom]
(I guess we can close ACTION-14 then?)
07:50:05 [dom]
ACTION-22: follow up to ACTION-14
07:50:05 [trackbot]
ACTION-22 Incorporate data api into spec (find editor volunteer) notes added
07:50:10 [dom]
close ACTION-14
07:50:11 [trackbot]
ACTION-14 Revise Data API proposal and mail to list closed
07:50:33 [dom]
ACTION-14: follow up in ACTION-22
07:50:33 [trackbot]
ACTION-14 Revise Data API proposal and mail to list notes added
07:50:36 [stefanh]
hta: look into incoming notification. Dan not on call, no update
07:51:03 [stefanh]
hta: next one: identity framework connections proposal
07:51:10 [stefanh]
....not ready yet
07:51:20 [stefanh]
...no update
07:51:40 [stefanh]
hta: next DTMF: done more or less
07:52:01 [stefanh]
justing: trying to summrize the discussions into a single api
07:52:57 [stefanh]
hta: how to know if a tracks supports dtmf or not?
07:52:58 [dom]
can we add a pointer to the latest proposal for DMTF? I'm not sure which mail it is
07:53:20 [juberti]
dom: https://docs.google.com/a/google.com/document/d/1oqPfWoeq9mDAJKV8RStw-FVzln7HRO50gkFR0wiPjbk/edit?hl=en_US
07:53:26 [stefanh]
adambe: a track can have support for dtmf or not
07:53:44 [stefanh]
...can it really change during run time?
07:54:00 [stefanh]
....exceptions can be used
07:57:30 [stefanh]
stefanh: really a property of the other end, can it receive dtmf or not
07:58:51 [stefanh]
hta: stattus of discussion with web and tv on tracks?
07:59:32 [stefanh]
stefanh: waiting for this webrtc wg to be be more ready with this part before approaching web and tv IG
08:00:10 [stefanh]
hta: next one (add/remove tracks) already discussed
08:00:36 [stefanh]
hta: next thing: next meeting. we have a f2f Feb 1st (from noon)
08:00:52 [stefanh]
...do we need any meeting before then? I would say not.
08:01:09 [stefanh]
dom: only reason to approve a new WD
08:01:24 [stefanh]
burn: we can do that on mail
08:01:38 [stefanh]
hta: AoB. What about JSEP?
08:01:59 [stefanh]
justin: working on a draft, not ready for this call though
08:02:12 [stefanh]
...working with mathew kaufman
08:02:24 [stefanh]
...moving control to JS
08:02:44 [stefanh]
....ready by end of week
08:02:55 [stefanh]
...in draft version.
08:03:07 [juberti]
juberti has joined #webrtc
08:03:37 [stefanh]
adambe: has there any conclusions on the data api? a long time since we talked about it
08:03:42 [juberti]
Current API: https://docs.google.com/a/google.com/document/d/16csYCaHxIYP83DzCZJL7relQm2QNxT-qkay4-jLxoKA/edit?hl=en_US
08:04:17 [stefanh]
hta: recently updated proposal
08:04:25 [dom]
-> https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/describecomponents.cgi?product=Web%20RTC%20Working%20Group New Bugzilla product/component for Web RTC
08:04:45 [stefanh]
....to be discussed in bugzilla
08:05:36 [stefanh]
hta: AoB???
08:05:42 [juberti]
Please feel free to leave comments in the DTMF or DataStream docs.
08:06:01 [Zakim]
- +358.505.22aagg
08:06:01 [stefanh]
hta: thanks all for coming and see you Feb 1st
08:06:08 [Zakim]
-dom
08:06:10 [Zakim]
-hta
08:06:10 [Zakim]
-adambe
08:06:11 [Zakim]
- +86255662aahh
08:06:12 [Zakim]
-Narm_Gadiraju
08:06:13 [Zakim]
- +91.80.67.89.aajj
08:06:13 [Zakim]
-nstratford
08:06:14 [Zakim]
-Dan_Burnett
08:06:15 [Zakim]
-??P7
08:06:17 [Zakim]
- +1.610.889.aaff
08:06:20 [Zakim]
-stefanh
08:06:21 [Zakim]
-derf
08:06:22 [adambe]
adambe has left #webrtc
08:06:23 [Zakim]
-juberti
08:06:38 [Zakim]
-David
08:06:39 [Zakim]
UW_Web RTC()2:00AM has ended
08:06:41 [Zakim]
Attendees were hta, +46.1.07.14.aabb, dom, +46.1.07.14.aacc, derf, stefanh, David, +0086136832aadd, +1.857.288.aaee, +1.610.889.aaff, Dan_Burnett, +358.505.22aagg, +86255662aahh,
08:06:43 [dom]
RRSAgent, draft minutes
08:06:43 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/12/15-webrtc-minutes.html dom
08:06:43 [Zakim]
... +82.31.30.1.aaii, nstratford, +91.80.67.89.aajj, juberti, adambe, Narm_Gadiraju
08:07:27 [dom]
i/hta: next question/Topic: Bugzilla
08:07:47 [dom]
i/hta: finished API document status/Topic: Media Capture TF status
08:07:47 [derf]
dom: Francois usually did it himself.
08:08:31 [dom]
i/hta: any other comments on the media cap TF?/Topic: Action items review
08:08:55 [juberti]
also, is anyone planning on filing bugzilla issues on the things we discussed?
08:08:56 [dom]
i/hta: next one/Topic: Next meeting
08:09:06 [dom]
i/hta: AoB/Topic: AOB
08:09:10 [dom]
RRSAgent, draft minutes
08:09:10 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/12/15-webrtc-minutes.html dom
08:22:49 [jesup]
jesup has left #webrtc
09:22:32 [Zakim]
Zakim has left #webrtc
10:07:03 [richt]
richt has joined #webrtc
11:04:08 [richt]
richt has joined #webrtc