17:28:49 RRSAgent has joined #ua 17:28:49 logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/12/15-ua-irc 17:28:51 RRSAgent, make logs public 17:28:51 Zakim has joined #ua 17:28:53 Zakim, this will be WAI_UAWG 17:28:53 ok, trackbot; I see WAI_UAWG()1:00PM scheduled to start in 32 minutes 17:28:54 Meeting: User Agent Accessibility Guidelines Working Group Teleconference 17:28:54 Date: 15 December 2011 17:29:08 chair: jimallan, kellyford 17:29:47 Agenda+ Survey http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20111130/results (2.11.10-12, 2.6.3 is really 2.11.11) 17:30:09 Agenda+ SCs needing attention http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2011OctDec/0101.html 17:30:22 agenda+ meeting on Jan 5? 17:30:32 agenda+ LC push - schedule a couple of marathon day(s) 17:31:12 agenda+ Generated Content - Bug 13668 http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=13668 (test files 17:31:30 rrsagent, make minutes 17:31:30 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/12/15-ua-minutes.html JAllan 17:32:42 rrsagent, set logs public 17:58:56 WAI_UAWG()1:00PM has now started 17:59:03 +[Microsoft] 18:00:39 +Jim_Allan 18:00:43 sharper has joined #ua 18:01:03 zakim, Microsoft is really KellyFord 18:01:04 +KellyFord; got it 18:02:20 +Jeanne 18:03:28 +Greg_Lowney 18:03:35 Jan has joined #ua 18:03:50 zakim, who is here? 18:03:50 On the phone I see KellyFord, Jim_Allan, Jeanne, Greg_Lowney 18:03:51 On IRC I see Jan, sharper, Zakim, RRSAgent, JAllan, jeanne, trackbot 18:04:10 zakim, code? 18:04:10 the conference code is 82941 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), Jan 18:04:24 +Kim_Patch 18:04:36 +[IPcaller] 18:04:58 zakim, [IPcaller] is really Jan 18:04:58 +Jan; got it 18:06:01 greg has joined #ua 18:06:05 KimPatch has joined #ua 18:06:47 http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/2011/ED-UAAG20-20111213/ 18:07:11 zakim, agenda? 18:07:11 I see 5 items remaining on the agenda: 18:07:13 1. Survey http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20111130/results (2.11.10-12, 2.6.3 is really 2.11.11) [from JAllan] 18:07:17 2. SCs needing attention http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2011OctDec/0101.html [from JAllan] 18:07:19 3. meeting on Jan 5? [from JAllan] 18:07:21 4. LC push - schedule a couple of marathon day(s) [from JAllan] 18:07:22 5. Generated Content - Bug 13668 http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=13668 (test files [from JAllan] 18:09:54 +??P1 18:10:03 zakim, ??P1 is sharper 18:10:03 +sharper; got it 18:11:44 allanj has joined #ua 18:12:08 kford has joined #ua 18:12:23 zakim, agenda? 18:12:23 I see 5 items remaining on the agenda: 18:12:25 1. Survey http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20111130/results (2.11.10-12, 2.6.3 is really 2.11.11) [from JAllan] 18:12:29 2. SCs needing attention http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2011OctDec/0101.html [from JAllan] 18:12:32 3. meeting on Jan 5? [from JAllan] 18:12:34 4. LC push - schedule a couple of marathon day(s) [from JAllan] 18:12:36 5. Generated Content - Bug 13668 http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=13668 (test files [from JAllan] 18:12:52 scribe:jallan 18:13:17 zakim, open item 1 18:13:17 agendum 1. "Survey http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20111130/results (2.11.10-12, 2.6.3 is really 2.11.11)" taken up [from JAllan] 18:14:19 topic 2.11.10 18:14:39 gl: couldn't parse this, asked questions 18:14:57 https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20111130/results#xq11 18:15:36 ... every media playback may not be a viewport 18:16:09 jr: 'handle' assumes that every player with have handles to change size 18:18:23 js: time based media is an element or an object. and you are changing the size of the element/object 18:19:37 gl: time-based media will apply to animation, and canvas 18:19:51 jr: time based objects could fly around the screen. 18:20:07 ... need to have it bigger than its default. 18:20:42 gl: you can make images and text bigger, how are they different from visual time based media. 18:20:58 ... media is a variation of text and images. 18:21:17 http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/2011/ED-UAAG20-20111213/ 18:21:29 ... also need to state 'visual' time base media 18:23:20 regrets+ mark 18:24:25 ja: this is special, ability to make only this instance (video) (element) larger 18:25:43 gl: so we are talking about a discrete region of the page not some global animation 18:26:02 gl: what about reflow? 18:26:08 ja: in implementation 18:26:58 kf: this needs lots of work 18:27:31 gl: already say that every viewport can be resized, but not independently 18:27:46 ...viewports have min/max limits 18:28:38 kf: does zoom work on video 18:28:43 ja: yes 18:29:08 jr: UA needs to have a zoom, and can zoom all the content 18:29:36 gl: minimum expectation is to make all content large 18:30:36 ...change the size of edit fields. 18:31:24 kf: do we have zoom, see lots of resizing. 18:31:57 jr: 1.4.x scale text, need a dumb zoom to zoom everything. 18:33:09 kf: if we delete 21110, what do folks think 18:33:29 jr: +1 if we have an overall zoom 18:33:58 kf: have a generic zoom feature that covers all content 18:34:36 gl: full zoom, is minimal 18:34:45 action: jeanne to delete 2.11.10 18:34:46 Created ACTION-689 - Delete 2.11.10 [on Jeanne F Spellman - due 2011-12-22]. 18:34:51 Action JR: Write proposal for a zoom function SC and another for a zoom that respects horizontal 18:34:51 Created ACTION-690 - Write proposal for a zoom function SC and another for a zoom that respects horizontal [on Jan Richards - due 2011-12-22]. 18:35:29 ...optimal is to zoom within window boundary, then discrete zoom 18:36:40 topic: 2.11.11 Scale and position alternative media tracks: The user can scale and position alternative media tracks independent of base video. (Level AAA) 18:36:43 Wayne has joined #ua 18:38:25 ja: discrete movement of captions to be above, below, beside video 18:39:02 +Wayne 18:40:10 gl: prefer changing to visual media track 18:42:34 "visual alternative media tracks" rather than "alternative visual media tracks" but not a big deal, just trying to not break up the phrase "alternative media". 18:43:12 +1 all around 18:43:34 +1 18:44:52 action: jeanne to change 2.11.11 "alternative visual media tracks" to "visual alternative media tracks" 18:44:52 Created ACTION-691 - Change 2.11.11 "alternative visual media tracks" to "visual alternative media tracks" [on Jeanne F Spellman - due 2011-12-22]. 18:45:40 action: jallan to rewrite IER for 2.11.11 18:45:40 Created ACTION-692 - Rewrite IER for 2.11.11 [on Jim Allan - due 2011-12-22]. 18:48:33 topic: 2.11.12 Adjust Playback Contrast and Brightness 18:49:06 ja: should be AAA 18:50:34 gl: should clarify, the playback media only (video). 18:51:51 jr: how does this interact with system wide brightness and contrast setting. 18:52:24 kf: do we need this? 18:53:17 gl: this is for mediaplayer plugin, you need to expose these controls. 18:54:21 Kf: should this apply to images, should I be able to change contrast of images 18:55:04 gl: when a technology allows the adjustment of contrast and brightness, then it needs to expose it in the UA 18:55:19 ...should only apply to playback of timebased media 18:55:51 Since AAA would be OK to essentially just be recommending that components that play back visual time-based media allow the user to adjust contrast and brightness. 18:56:03 wayne: is there a demand for this 18:56:52 "Components that play back visual time-based media allow the user to adjust contrast and brightness" 18:57:16 +1 18:57:32 +1 18:57:32 2.11.12 Playback Contrast and Brightness: Components that play back visual time-based media allow the user to adjust contrast and brightness. (AAA) 18:57:54 2.11.12 Playback Contrast and Brightness: Components that play visual time-based media allow the user to adjust contrast and brightness. (AAA) 18:58:05 +1 18:58:58 Shouldn't use "playback" in the title if not in the SC. 18:59:19 2.11.12 Video Contrast and Brightness: Components that play visual time-based media allow the user to adjust contrast and brightness. (AAA) 19:00:43 2.11.12 Video Contrast and Brightness: Users can adjust the contrast and brightness of visual time-based media. (AAA) [the more user-centric phrasing] 19:01:32 zakim, agenda? 19:01:32 I see 5 items remaining on the agenda: 19:01:33 1. Survey http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20111130/results (2.11.10-12, 2.6.3 is really 2.11.11) [from JAllan] 19:01:37 2. SCs needing attention http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2011OctDec/0101.html [from JAllan] 19:01:40 3. meeting on Jan 5? [from JAllan] 19:01:42 4. LC push - schedule a couple of marathon day(s) [from JAllan] 19:01:43 5. Generated Content - Bug 13668 http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=13668 (test files [from JAllan] 19:02:24 The existing Applicability Note goes away. 19:03:26 action: jeanne to change 21112 to 2.11.12 Video Contrast and Brightness: Users can adjust the contrast and brightness of visual time-based media. (AAA) [the more user-centric phrasing] and remove applicability note 19:03:26 Created ACTION-693 - Change 21112 to 2.11.12 Video Contrast and Brightness: Users can adjust the contrast and brightness of visual time-based media. (AAA) [the more user-centric phrasing] and remove applicability note [on Jeanne F Spellman - due 2011-12-22]. 19:04:00 zakim, close item 1 19:04:00 agendum 1, Survey http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20111130/results (2.11.10-12, 2.6.3 is really 2.11.11), closed 19:04:02 I see 4 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is 19:04:03 2. SCs needing attention http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2011OctDec/0101.html [from JAllan] 19:08:49 Sorry, I need to go, apologies. 19:08:52 -Jeanne 19:09:37 zakim, open item 3 19:09:38 agendum 3. "meeting on Jan 5?" taken up [from JAllan] 19:09:58 kf: meet Dec 22 and 29? 19:11:04 kf: shouldn't meet on 22 or 29, write/send proposals to list 19:11:18 ... Jan 5 ok? 19:11:40 resume standard meeting on Jan 5 19:11:50 zakim, open item 4 19:11:50 agendum 4. "LC push - schedule a couple of marathon day(s)" taken up [from JAllan] 19:12:05 zakim, close item 3 19:12:05 agendum 3, meeting on Jan 5?, closed 19:12:06 I see 3 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is 19:12:08 2. SCs needing attention http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2011OctDec/0101.html [from JAllan] 19:12:13 zakim, close item 2 19:12:13 agendum 2, SCs needing attention http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2011OctDec/0101.html, closed 19:12:15 I see 2 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is 19:12:17 4. LC push - schedule a couple of marathon day(s) [from JAllan] 19:12:49 kf: will review marathon days on Jan 5 19:13:00 zakim, close item 4 19:13:00 agendum 4, LC push - schedule a couple of marathon day(s), closed 19:13:02 I see 1 item remaining on the agenda: 19:13:02 5. Generated Content - Bug 13668 http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=13668 (test files [from JAllan] 19:13:34 topic: action-679 19:14:23 Modality Independence Principal 19:14:25 Users interacting with a web browser may do so using one or more input 19:14:26 methods including keyboard, mouse, speech, touch, and gesture. 19:14:28 It’s critical that each user be free to use whatever input 19:14:29 method or combination of methods works best for a given 19:14:31 situation. Therefore every potential user interaction must be 19:14:33 accessible via modality 19:14:35 independent controls that any input technology can 19:14:37 access. 19:14:39 For instance, if a user can’t use or doesn’t have access to a mouse, but can 19:14:40 use and access a keyboard, the keyboard can call a modality 19:14:42 independent control to activate an OnMouseOver 19:14:44 event. 19:15:41 Modality Independence Principal 19:15:42 Users interacting with a web browser may do so using one or more input methods including keyboard, mouse, speech, touch, and gesture. It’s critical that each user be free to use whatever input method or combination of methods works best for a given situation. Therefore every potential user task must be accessible via modality independent controls that any input technology can access. 19:15:44 For instance, if a user can’t use or doesn’t have access to a mouse, but can use and access a keyboard, the keyboard can call a modality independent control to activate an OnMouseOver event. 19:16:17 kp: modality is not in the document, have been using keyboard short cuts 19:16:29 kf: put this in doc at the beginning 19:17:01 kf: guiding principals 19:17:23 jr: in ATAG we have global Applicability Notes at the top of each section 19:17:34 I like the first paragraph, but I find the wording of the "For instance" paragraph to be verbose and confusing. For example, "can call a modality independent control"? Call it what? :-) 19:18:02 wayne: similar to Accessibility Support in WCAG 19:21:10 action: jeanne to add section at top of document "Applicability Notes" that includes Modality Independence Principal - Users interacting with a web browser may do so using one or more input methods including keyboard, mouse, speech, touch, and gesture. It’s critical that each user be free to use whatever input method or combination of methods works best for a given situation. Therefore every... 19:21:10 Created ACTION-694 - Add section at top of document "Applicability Notes" that includes Modality Independence Principal - Users interacting with a web browser may do so using one or more input methods including keyboard, mouse, speech, touch, and gesture. It’s critical that each user be free to use whatever input method or combination of methods works best for a given situation. Therefore every... [on Jeanne F Spellman - due 2011-12-22]. 19:21:11 ...potential user task must be accessible via modality independent controls that any input technology can access. 19:21:13 For instance, if a user can’t use or doesn’t have access to a mouse, but can use and access a keyboard, the keyboard can call a modality independent control to activate an OnMouseOver event. 19:21:19 I think we can just take one of the already written examples from the corresponding SC. 19:22:22 E.g. the Cade or Omar examples from 2.1.1 19:22:58 close action-679 19:22:58 ACTION-679 Write note for top of document about overarching principle of modality independence closed 19:23:55 topic: action-678 Write a combo of 261-263 to one SC 19:25:02 2.6.X Activate any event handlers: 19:25:03 The user can call up a list of input device event handlers explicitly associated with the keyboard focus element, and activate any one or more. (Level A) 19:25:05 Intent of Success Criterion 2.6.X : 19:25:07 Users interacting with a web browser may be doing so by using one or more input technologies including keyboard, mouse, speech, touch, and gesture. No matter how the user is controlling the user agent, the user needs to know all the input methods assigned to a particular piece of content. At the same time, anyone input method should not arbitrarily hold back another. For instance, people... 19:25:08 ...who don't use a mouse shouldn't necessarily have to map their input methods to the same steps a mouse user would take. 19:25:10 Examples of Success Criterion 2.6.X : 19:25:11 o Jeremy cannot use a mouse. He needs to activate a flyout menu that normally appears OnMouseOver. Jeremy can navigate to a link on this flyout menu and activate it using keyboard shortcuts. 19:25:13 o Ken is a speech input user. In order to get his work done in a reasonable amount of time and without overtaxing his voice he uses a single speech command phrase to move the mouse up, left and click. 19:25:16 o Karen cannot use a mouse. She clicks a single key to activate both events for link that has an onmousedown and an onmouseup event link. 19:25:19 Related Resources for Success Criterion 2.6.X : 19:25:21 The Modality Independence Principle X.X 19:26:05 No necessarily necessary, but could reorder sentence to "The user can call up a list of and activate and one or more input device event handlers explicitly associated with the keyboard focus element." 19:26:56 "The user can call up a list of and activate any one or more, input device event handlers explicitly associated with the keyboard focus element." 19:27:44 Why not just "can activate any of the handlers" 19:28:18 The user can call up a list of input device event handlers explicitly associated with the keyboard focus element, and activate any one or more of the event handlers. 19:28:42 the or those 19:29:53 +1 those 19:33:00 action: jeanne to add 2.6.x The user can call up a list of input device event handlers explicitly associated with the keyboard focus element, and activate any one or more of the event handlers.and IER above from KIm 19:33:00 Created ACTION-695 - Add 2.6.x The user can call up a list of input device event handlers explicitly associated with the keyboard focus element, and activate any one or more of the event handlers.and IER above from KIm [on Jeanne F Spellman - due 2011-12-22]. 19:34:14 action: jeanne to delete 2.6.1, 2, 3 and replace with 2.6.x 19:34:15 Created ACTION-696 - Delete 2.6.1, 2, 3 and replace with 2.6.x [on Jeanne F Spellman - due 2011-12-22]. 19:34:54 action: jeanne to make sure that wayne is on the list. still not getting email 19:34:54 Created ACTION-697 - Make sure that wayne is on the list. still not getting email [on Jeanne F Spellman - due 2011-12-22]. 19:35:12 close action-678 19:35:13 ACTION-678 Write a combo of 261-263 to one SC, and intents, etc. closed 19:37:08 clink, clink 19:37:31 -Jan 19:37:32 -Kim_Patch 19:37:34 -sharper 19:37:36 -Wayne 19:38:11 -Jim_Allan 19:38:29 topic: generated content 19:38:46 need to reopen and respond to html5 bug 19:39:24 jim are you still in irc 19:39:28 1. generated content (gc) speaks with a screen reader on the Mac in Opera and Safari 19:39:40 were you going to talk with GL about generated content? 19:40:35 -KellyFord 19:40:42 1a. speaks with screen reader on PC in Chrome 19:40:50 -Greg_Lowney 19:40:51 WAI_UAWG()1:00PM has ended 19:40:53 Attendees were Jim_Allan, KellyFord, Jeanne, Greg_Lowney, Kim_Patch, Jan, sharper, Wayne 19:41:02 2. gc prints on all UA 19:42:02 3. copy and paste does not work in any UA (ff, chome, ie, opera - all on PC), mac? safari? 19:43:44 4. search - if text is on the screen it should be searchable. in Opera (PC) you can search for terms, it will find but not highlight. search does not find gc on ff, ie, chrome on the PC. need further testing on the MAC 19:43:55 zakim, agenda? 19:43:55 I see 1 item remaining on the agenda: 19:43:57 5. Generated Content - Bug 13668 http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=13668 (test files [from JAllan] 19:44:08 zakim, close item 5 19:44:09 agendum 5, Generated Content - Bug 13668 http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=13668 (test files, closed 19:44:11 I see nothing remaining on the agenda 19:44:17 rrsagent, make minutes 19:44:17 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/12/15-ua-minutes.html JAllan 19:45:07 present: jim, kelly, wayne, kim, greg, jan, simon, jeanne 19:45:24 rrsagent, please part 19:45:24 I see 9 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2011/12/15-ua-actions.rdf : 19:45:24 ACTION: jeanne to delete 2.11.10 [1] 19:45:24 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/12/15-ua-irc#T18-34-45 19:45:24 ACTION: JR to Write proposal for a zoom function SC and another for a zoom that respects horizontal [2] 19:45:24 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/12/15-ua-irc#T18-34-51 19:45:24 ACTION: jeanne to change 2.11.11 "alternative visual media tracks" to "visual alternative media tracks" [3] 19:45:24 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/12/15-ua-irc#T18-44-52 19:45:24 ACTION: jallan to rewrite IER for 2.11.11 [4] 19:45:24 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/12/15-ua-irc#T18-45-40 19:45:24 ACTION: jeanne to change 21112 to 2.11.12 Video Contrast and Brightness: Users can adjust the contrast and brightness of visual time-based media. (AAA) [the more user-centric phrasing] and remove applicability note [5] 19:45:24 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/12/15-ua-irc#T19-03-26 19:45:24 ACTION: jeanne to add section at top of document "Applicability Notes" that includes Modality Independence Principal - Users interacting with a web browser may do so using one or more input methods including keyboard, mouse, speech, touch, and gesture. It’s critical that each user be free to use whatever input method or combination of methods works best for a given situation. Therefore every... [6] 19:45:24 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/12/15-ua-irc#T19-21-10 19:45:24 ACTION: jeanne to add 2.6.x The user can call up a list of input device event handlers explicitly associated with the keyboard focus element, and activate any one or more of the event handlers.and IER above from KIm [7] 19:45:24 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/12/15-ua-irc#T19-33-00 19:45:24 ACTION: jeanne to delete 2.6.1, 2, 3 and replace with 2.6.x [8] 19:45:24 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/12/15-ua-irc#T19-34-14 19:45:24 ACTION: jeanne to make sure that wayne is on the list. still not getting email [9] 19:45:24 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/12/15-ua-irc#T19-34-54