15:59:43 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #rd
15:59:43 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/12/15-rd-irc
15:59:45 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
15:59:47 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 7394
15:59:47 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see WAI_RDWG()11:00AM scheduled to start in 1 minute
15:59:48 <trackbot> Meeting: Research and Development Working Group Teleconference
15:59:48 <trackbot> Date: 15 December 2011
15:59:59 <shadi> chair: Simon
16:02:05 <markel> markel has joined #rd
16:02:09 <sharper> sharper has joined #rd
16:02:17 <sharper> zakim, agenda?
16:02:38 <shadi> regrets: Christos, Giorgio, Yeliz
16:02:48 <Peter> Peter has joined #rd
16:02:49 <sharper> trackbot, start meeting
16:02:51 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
16:02:53 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 7394
16:02:54 <trackbot> Meeting: Research and Development Working Group Teleconference
16:02:54 <trackbot> Date: 15 December 2011
16:03:01 <sharper> Chair: Harper_Simon
16:03:02 <sharper> Agenda+ Welcome & Logistics (Regrets, Agenda Requests, Comments)
16:03:02 <sharper> Agenda+ W3C Note
16:03:02 <sharper> Agenda+ New Topic Discussion << Focus of this weeks meeting
16:03:02 <sharper> Agenda+ Happy Holidays and a Good New Year 
16:03:16 <sharper> zakim, save agenda
16:03:21 <Zakim> I see 3 items remaining on the agenda:
16:03:26 <Zakim> 1. Welcome & Logistics (Regrets, Agenda Requests, Comments) [from sharper]
16:03:27 <sharper> zakim, take up item 1
16:03:33 <Zakim> 2. Symposium De-Brief starting with http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-wai-rd/2011Dec/0007.html / http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-wai-rd/2011Dec/0008.html /
16:03:37 <sharper> rrsagent, make logs public
16:03:38 <sharper> rrsagent, draft minutes
16:03:38 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/12/15-rd-minutes.html sharper
16:03:46 <Zakim> ... http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-wai-rd/2011Dec/0009.html / http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-wai-rd/2011Dec/0010.html [from sharper]
16:03:55 <Zakim> 3. Any Other Business [from sharper]
16:04:25 <sharper> regrets: Kouroupetroglou_Christos, Yesilada_Yeliz, Brajnik_Giorgio, Conway_Vivienne
16:04:31 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see WAI_RDWG()11:00AM scheduled to start 2 minutes ago
16:04:50 <Zakim> ok, sharper, the agenda has been written to http://www.w3.org/2011/12/15-rd-agenda.rdf
16:04:54 <Zakim> WAI_RDWG()11:00AM has now started
16:04:56 <Zakim> +??P4
16:04:58 <Zakim> agendum 1. "Welcome & Logistics (Regrets, Agenda Requests, Comments)" taken up [from sharper]
16:05:16 <Zakim> +??P14
16:05:21 <Peter> Not sure P4 may be me?
16:05:21 <Zakim> -??P4
16:05:32 <Zakim> +??P20
16:05:51 <Peter> (will reconnect on Zakim)
16:06:00 <markel> zakim, ??P20 is markel
16:06:09 <Zakim> +??P30
16:06:37 <Zakim> +??P35
16:06:44 <Zakim> +markel; got it
16:06:55 <Peter> Zakim, ??P35 is me
16:07:18 <shadi> zakim, call shadi-617
16:07:18 <Zakim> +??P37
16:07:23 <Zakim> +Peter; got it
16:07:24 <sharper> present: Abou-Zahra_Shadi, Miesenberge_Klaus, Vigo_Markel, Harper_Simon, Thiessen_Peter
16:07:31 <Zakim> ok, shadi; the call is being made
16:07:38 <Zakim> +Shadi
16:07:44 <Zakim> -??P37
16:07:46 <Zakim> -??P14
16:07:54 <Zakim> +??P14
16:08:13 <Peter> Zakim, ??P14 is me
16:08:14 <Zakim> +Peter; got it
16:08:21 <Peter> Zakim, mute me
16:08:21 <Zakim> Peter should now be muted
16:08:26 <shadi> zakim, who is on the phone?
16:08:26 <Zakim> On the phone I see markel, ??P30, Peter (muted), Shadi, Peter.a
16:08:39 <sharper> zakim, ??P30 is sharper
16:08:39 <Zakim> +sharper; got it
16:08:51 <Peter> Zakim, unmute me
16:08:51 <Zakim> Peter should no longer be muted
16:09:13 <Peter> Zakim, mute me
16:09:13 <Zakim> Peter should now be muted
16:09:39 <markel> shadi I can scribe
16:09:49 <markel> :-)
16:10:01 <shadi> zakim, who is on the phone?
16:10:01 <Zakim> On the phone I see markel, sharper, Peter (muted), Shadi, Peter.a
16:10:02 <sharper> scribe: Abou-Zahra_Shadi
16:10:02 <sharper> ScribeNick: shadi
16:10:37 <sharper> OK so I'm talkin
16:10:40 <shadi> zakim, peter is simon
16:10:41 <Zakim> +simon; got it
16:10:44 <shadi> zakim, who is on the phone?
16:10:44 <Zakim> On the phone I see markel, sharper, simon (muted), Shadi, Peter.a
16:10:56 <shadi> zakim, unmute simon
16:10:56 <Zakim> simon should no longer be muted
16:11:01 <Peter> yes
16:11:12 <shadi> zakim, sharper is Klaus
16:11:12 <Zakim> +Klaus; got it
16:11:20 <shadi> zakim, peter.a is Peter
16:11:20 <Zakim> +Peter; got it
16:11:24 <shadi> zakim, who is on the phone?
16:11:24 <Zakim> On the phone I see markel, Klaus, simon, Shadi, Peter
16:11:37 <shadi> zakim, take up agendum 2
16:11:37 <Zakim> agendum 2. "Symposium De-Brief starting with http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-wai-rd/2011Dec/0007.html /
16:11:40 <Zakim> ... http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-wai-rd/2011Dec/0008.html / http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-wai-rd/2011Dec/0009.html /
16:11:43 <Zakim> ... http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-wai-rd/2011Dec/0010.html" taken up [from sharper]
16:11:46 <shadi> agenda?
16:12:08 <shadi> zakim, drop agendum 1
16:12:10 <shadi> zakim, drop agendum 2
16:12:11 <shadi> zakim, drop agendum 3
16:12:14 <Zakim> agendum 1, Welcome & Logistics (Regrets, Agenda Requests, Comments), dropped
16:12:18 <Zakim> agendum 2, Symposium De-Brief starting with http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-wai-rd/2011Dec/0007.html /
16:12:23 <Zakim> ... http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-wai-rd/2011Dec/0008.html / http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-wai-rd/2011Dec/0009.html /
16:12:24 <shadi> zakim, drop agendum 4
16:12:29 <Zakim> ... http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-wai-rd/2011Dec/0010.html, dropped
16:12:30 <shadi> zakim, take up agendum 5
16:12:33 <Zakim> agendum 3, Any Other Business, dropped
16:12:37 <Zakim> agendum 4, Welcome & Logistics (Regrets, Agenda Requests, Comments), dropped
16:12:45 <Zakim> agendum 5. "W3C Note" taken up [from sharper]
16:12:56 <shadi> zakim, mute me
16:12:56 <Zakim> Shadi should now be muted
16:13:33 <Zakim> +??P15
16:13:42 <Peter> Zakim, ??P15 is me
16:13:42 <Zakim> +Peter; got it
16:13:48 <Peter> (sorry awful connection today)
16:13:53 <shadi> SH: what is the status of the Note?
16:14:06 <shadi> MV: identifying the gaps
16:14:07 <shadi> q+
16:14:18 <shadi> ack me
16:15:23 <sharper> SAZ: to help the editors with the note boilerplate and US Spelling etc
16:15:24 <markel> SH: I need to provide some links with style guides to develop the note..administrative stuff..there's a general template..I'll be happy to provide that..the usual language is EN-US
16:15:28 <shadi> zakim, mute me
16:15:28 <Zakim> Shadi should now be muted
16:15:43 <shadi> ack me
16:15:59 <shadi> zakim, mute me
16:15:59 <Zakim> Shadi should now be muted
16:16:09 <markel> SAZ: that's before you got too far
16:16:12 <shadi> zakim, take up next
16:16:12 <Zakim> agendum 6. "New Topic Discussion << Focus of this weeks meeting" taken up [from sharper]
16:16:15 <sharper> http://www.w3.org/WAI/RD/wiki 
16:16:15 <markel> MV: thanks for that
16:16:36 <shadi> SH: quite a few topics that we are looking at
16:16:45 <shadi> ...need to decide how to select
16:16:51 <shadi> ...editors is one factor
16:17:11 <shadi> ...maybe biggest point
16:17:25 <shadi> ...lots of WAI focus on mobile accessibility
16:17:28 <sharper> http://www.w3.org/WAI/RD/wiki/Mobile_Accessibility
16:17:32 <shadi> ...maybe good to address that
16:17:44 <shadi> ack me
16:18:07 <Peter> Zakim, mute me
16:18:07 <Zakim> Peter should now be muted
16:19:15 <markel> SAZ: it's a hot topic now, there's a UN org responsible to monitor human rights...there's another org in Korea that wants to submit to another standards org like IETC..there's lots of things going on
16:19:28 <shadi> s/IETC/JTC-1
16:19:39 <sharper> Reciprocal Interoperability of Accessible and Mobile Webs (RIAM)
16:19:40 <markel> SAZ: some efforts should be devoted in consolidating this
16:19:49 <sharper> http://wel-eprints.cs.manchester.ac.uk/view/subjects/riam.html
16:20:15 <markel> SAZ: is that (RIAM) any org?
16:20:56 <shadi> SH: RIAM is a research project funded by the UK government
16:21:20 <shadi> ...looking at differences and similarities between mobile and accessibility guidelines
16:21:52 <shadi> ...working with CTIC in Spain on extension from RIAM into their mobile work
16:22:14 <shadi> q+ to talk about other factors to selecting a topic
16:22:45 <sharper> ack sh
16:22:45 <Zakim> shadi, you wanted to talk about other factors to selecting a topic
16:22:48 <shadi> ...Yeliz and I offer to be editors if no one else offers
16:23:03 <shadi> ack me
16:23:39 <markel> SAZ: I don't think there would be a problem having a chair as an editor..it's gonna be difficult on your side..as you will have to be switching roles
16:23:54 <markel> SAZ: early on we talked about the factors to select a topic
16:24:03 <markel> SAZ: having editors ready is key
16:24:14 <sharper> RIAM Framework: Overlaps between Mobile and Accessible Webs - http://wel-eprints.cs.manchester.ac.uk/96/
16:24:28 <markel> SAZ: your university one of the initiatives that reflects the work on mobile web accessibility
16:25:20 <markel> SAZ: if nobody else is offering as an editor we can say that SH and YY can be editors
16:25:31 <shadi> http://www.icchp.org/node/359
16:25:58 <shadi> KM: session at ICCHP also looking at mobile accessibility
16:26:05 <shadi> ...maybe can cooperate on that
16:26:25 <shadi> SH: when is ICCHP?
16:26:31 <shadi> KM: July 11-13th
16:27:04 <shadi> SH: expect to have two symposia by then
16:27:49 <markel> SAZ: I think that's one option, it depends how we coordinate those people. Klaus suggest that we can do something together
16:28:13 <markel> SAZ: I think we could check with them
16:28:39 <shadi> SH: would like to have a better idea about the next topic or two early next year
16:28:56 <shadi> ...would be driven by the editors
16:29:17 <shadi> ...good response from the community and would be good to build on the momentum
16:29:34 <shadi> ...could do mobile next and have ICCHP as a potential follow-up
16:30:07 <markel> q+
16:30:11 <Peter> q+
16:30:11 <shadi> ...need to decide how this will look very soon
16:30:14 <shadi> ack m
16:30:14 <sharper> ack ma
16:30:40 <shadi> MV: think we do not have enough participants in the group
16:30:45 <shadi> ...do we have critical mass?
16:30:57 <shadi> ...worried about the level of involvement
16:31:23 <shadi> SH: agree with the concern but need to get these seminars out
16:31:28 <shadi> ...to attract new people
16:31:30 <shadi> q+
16:31:40 <shadi> q+ to respond on participation
16:31:46 <Peter> ack me
16:31:48 <sharper> ack peter
16:31:48 <shadi> ack peter
16:32:15 <shadi> PT: mobile accessibility is a very exciting topics
16:32:27 <shadi> ...assume you primarly mean blind users
16:32:42 <shadi> ...would be very interested in being an editor
16:32:43 <Peter> Zakime, mute me
16:33:03 <shadi> SH: may ber othe aspects beyond blindness
16:33:04 <Peter> Zakim, mute me
16:33:05 <Zakim> Peter should now be muted
16:33:14 <shadi> ...good to have additional editors
16:33:14 <sharper> ack shadi
16:33:15 <Zakim> shadi, you wanted to respond on participation
16:34:07 <markel> SAZ: I agree with SH, there are many aspects..touchscreens, gestures...if you don't have dextery..many types of disabilities get an impact
16:35:03 <markel> SAZ: I want to reply to MV. This is usual, unfortunately people tend to drop out. We are transitioning...the first note is important to show people what we do
16:35:19 <markel> SAZ: having a presence would be good..ICCHP or W4A
16:35:36 <markel> SAZ: it'd  be great to have face 2 face meetings
16:35:55 <markel> SAZ: there are some new 2 people joining to the group
16:36:03 <markel> q+
16:36:12 <shadi> s/to the group/to the mailing list
16:36:25 <markel> q-
16:36:43 <shadi> SH: maybe we should think about joining mobile and touch interface topics
16:36:51 <shadi> ...they are different but very related
16:37:01 <Peter> +1 combining mobile a11y and touch interfaces (we could dig deeper later)
16:37:08 <shadi> ...or do we want to keep completely separate?
16:37:14 <markel> I think it's too broad
16:37:50 <shadi> SAZ: maybe combine would yield more contributions to select from
16:37:54 <markel> I think that the focus is important
16:38:16 <Peter> (Just encase you haven't read some related guidelines, these might be some good reading over the holidays: http://www.w3.org/WAI/mobile/experiences, http://www.w3.org/TR/mobile-bp/, http://www.w3.org/TR/mwabp/)
16:38:33 <shadi> q+ to ask klaus about combining symposium with ICCHP
16:38:34 <markel> I prefer something like that Si
16:38:43 <shadi> ack me
16:38:43 <Zakim> shadi, you wanted to ask klaus about combining symposium with ICCHP
16:38:43 <sharper> ack shadi
16:39:08 <markel> SAZ: deadline for ICCHP is 1st of Feb
16:39:16 <markel> we probably cannot make it
16:39:38 <markel> SAZ: can we have some invited contributions to that session?
16:40:04 <markel> SAZ: can we present these results in ICCHP?
16:40:09 <markel> KM: yes we can do that
16:40:10 <markel> +
16:40:49 <markel> SAZ: Simon do you think that the output would also be more than a note and become a contribution to ICCHP
16:41:20 <shadi> SH: would need to have mobile as second session and get some contribution to ICCHP
16:42:24 <shadi> ...group could formulate input
16:43:17 <markel> SAZ: we will have a ICCHP preconference workshop which will mention the contributions of the RDWG
16:45:14 <markel> SAZ: let's talk further about the topics. There's a thematic session about mobility..at a specific topic level we can coordinate with these ICCHP session. Talking generally as a group, KM talked also about a keynote
16:46:08 <shadi> SH: any other thoughts about this?
16:46:32 <shadi> MV: happy with any initiative to increase participation
16:46:53 <shadi> ...opportunities at ICCHP is welcome
16:47:06 <shadi> SH: could look at W4A and potentially ASSETS too
16:47:14 <shadi> ...maybe also CSUN
16:48:12 <markel> SAZ: CSUN deadline is gone..I think W4A and ASSETS where future participants come from..lets talk about specific issues
16:48:37 <Peter> q+
16:48:41 <Peter> ack me
16:48:58 <shadi> PT: have we decided on the mobile accessibility topic?
16:49:17 <shadi> SH: not quite yet but will put out the question for decision during the next meeting
16:49:39 <shadi> ...also to check if we combine them or not and to think about the third topic too
16:49:53 <shadi> ...want to give people the opportunity to think about that during the xmas breaks
16:50:03 <shadi> ...but decide right after when we next meet
16:50:16 <shadi> ...we have editors and are ready to go, need to work out the scope
16:50:43 <shadi> ...could have yeliz and peter do mobile, and I pick up another one
16:50:49 <shadi> ...want to keep up the momentum
16:50:55 <Peter> Zakim, mute me
16:50:55 <Zakim> Peter should now be muted
16:51:25 <markel> SAZ: Klaus, I know there are some conditions in your org, maybe you can think about some topics as part of the..project
16:51:32 <markel> KM: yeah
16:51:33 <shadi> zakim, take up next
16:51:33 <Zakim> agendum 7. "Happy Holidays and a Good New Year" taken up [from sharper]
16:52:06 <shadi> SH: thanks for everyone
16:52:23 <markel> :-) Happy holidays! It's a pleasure
16:52:38 <Peter> Have a great holiday! 
16:52:43 <markel> good bye!
16:52:44 <Zakim> -simon
16:52:46 <Zakim> -Shadi
16:52:46 <markel> markel has left #rd
16:52:47 <Zakim> -markel
16:52:50 <Zakim> -Klaus
16:52:57 <Zakim> -Peter.a
17:05:00 <Zakim> disconnecting the lone participant, Peter, in WAI_RDWG()11:00AM
17:05:03 <Zakim> WAI_RDWG()11:00AM has ended
17:05:05 <Zakim> Attendees were markel, Shadi, simon, Klaus, Peter
17:05:14 <shadi> trackbot, end meeting
17:05:14 <trackbot> Zakim, list attendees
17:05:14 <Zakim> sorry, trackbot, I don't know what conference this is
17:05:15 <trackbot> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
17:05:15 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/12/15-rd-minutes.html trackbot
17:05:16 <trackbot> RRSAgent, bye
17:05:16 <RRSAgent> I see no action items