15:53:29 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #rd
15:53:29 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/12/08-rd-irc
15:53:31 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
15:53:31 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #rd
15:53:33 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 7394
15:53:33 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see WAI_RDWG()11:00AM scheduled to start in 7 minutes
15:53:34 <trackbot> Meeting: Research and Development Working Group Teleconference
15:53:34 <trackbot> Date: 08 December 2011
15:54:48 <sharper> sharper has joined #rd
15:55:04 <sharper> zakim, agenda?
15:55:04 <Zakim> I see nothing on the agenda
15:55:35 <sharper> trackbot, start meeting
15:55:38 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
15:55:40 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 7394
15:55:41 <trackbot> Meeting: Research and Development Working Group Teleconference
15:55:41 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see WAI_RDWG()11:00AM scheduled to start in 5 minutes
15:55:41 <trackbot> Date: 08 December 2011
15:56:03 <Zakim> WAI_RDWG()11:00AM has now started
15:56:09 <Zakim> +??P37
15:56:32 <christos> zakim, ??P37 is christos
15:56:32 <Zakim> +christos; got it
15:57:07 <sharper> Chair: Harper_Simon 
15:57:21 <sharper> Agenda+ Welcome & Logistics (Regrets, Agenda Requests, Comments) 
15:57:34 <sharper> Agenda+ Symposium De-Brief starting with http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-wai-rd/2011Dec/0007.html / http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-wai-rd/2011Dec/0008.html / http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-wai-rd/2011Dec/0009.html / http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-wai-rd/2011Dec/0010.html 
15:57:37 <markel> markel has joined #rd
15:57:51 <sharper> Agenda+ Any Other Business 
15:58:01 <sharper> zakim, save agenda
15:58:08 <Zakim> ok, sharper, the agenda has been written to http://www.w3.org/2011/12/08-rd-agenda.rdf
15:58:08 <sharper> zakim, take up item 1
15:58:11 <Zakim> agendum 1. "Welcome & Logistics (Regrets, Agenda Requests, Comments)" taken up [from sharper]
15:58:36 <sharper> present+ Harper_Simon
15:58:51 <sharper> regrets+ Yesilada_Yeliz
15:59:15 <sharper> regrets+ Conway_Vivienne
15:59:29 <Peter> Peter has joined #rd
16:00:01 <shawn> shawn has joined #rd
16:00:07 <shawn> zakim, code?
16:00:07 <Zakim> the conference code is 7394 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), shawn
16:00:15 <Zakim> +??P50
16:00:16 <Zakim> +??P53
16:00:18 <Zakim> +??P54
16:00:34 <Peter> Zakim, ??P54 is me
16:00:34 <Zakim> +Peter; got it
16:00:45 <Peter> Zakim, mute me
16:00:53 <Zakim> Peter should now be muted
16:00:53 <giorgio> giorgio has joined #rd
16:01:03 <Zakim> +Shawn
16:01:06 <Mario> Mario has joined #rd
16:01:07 <shawn> zakim, mute me
16:01:10 <sharper> zakim, ??P50 is sharper
16:01:33 <Zakim> Shawn should now be muted
16:01:37 <Zakim> +sharper; got it
16:01:49 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
16:01:56 <shadi> zakim, ipcaller is me
16:02:27 <Zakim> +shadi; got it
16:02:54 <shadi> zakim, who is on the phone?
16:03:23 <Zakim> On the phone I see christos, sharper, ??P53, Peter (muted), Shawn (muted), shadi
16:03:44 <sharper> zakim, ??P53 is markel
16:04:32 <christos> mute me
16:04:37 <Zakim> +markel; got it
16:05:00 <christos> it was probably me
16:05:08 <christos> ack me
16:05:52 <sharper> ScribeNick: christos
16:06:14 <sharper> Scribe: Kouroupetroglou_Christos
16:06:24 <Peter> (i volunteer to be backup scribe :)
16:06:32 <Zakim> +Mario
16:07:19 <shawn> zakim, who is making noise?
16:07:26 <Zakim> +??P67
16:07:31 <Mario> zakim, mute me
16:07:52 <Zakim> shawn, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: shadi (65%)
16:07:58 <Zakim> Mario should now be muted
16:08:09 <giorgio> yes
16:08:17 <giorgio> i can hear you but apprently not speaking
16:08:33 <shadi> zakim, ??p67 is Giorgio
16:08:35 <giorgio> right
16:08:39 <Zakim> +Giorgio; got it
16:09:03 <giorgio> loal
16:09:40 <Zakim> -Giorgio
16:10:04 <shadi> agenda?
16:10:05 <christos> sh: thanks to eveyone for the logistics
16:10:20 <shadi> zakim, take up agendum 2
16:10:20 <Zakim> agendum 2. "Symposium De-Brief starting with http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-wai-rd/2011Dec/0007.html /
16:10:22 <Zakim> ... http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-wai-rd/2011Dec/0008.html / http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-wai-rd/2011Dec/0009.html /
16:10:25 <Zakim> ... http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-wai-rd/2011Dec/0010.html" taken up [from sharper]
16:10:30 <Mario> Yes, thanks very much!!!
16:11:50 <christos> sh: feedback was good but we need to think about some cahnges
16:12:33 <christos> marko: apart from the first 2 speakers the rest of the webinar went quite well
16:12:54 <christos> marko: the length was ok
16:13:22 <christos> marko: it is difficult to follow the presentation and the slides
16:13:33 <christos> marko: interactivity is a problem
16:13:42 <Zakim> +??P31
16:13:44 <Mario> q+
16:14:03 <christos> marko: the panel was good but we might need more time for questions
16:14:32 <Mario> zakim, unmute me
16:14:32 <Zakim> Mario should no longer be muted
16:14:45 <sharper> ack ma
16:15:25 <christos> mario: I had problem with the 3 questions to connect them to the papers
16:15:44 <Mario> zakim, mute me
16:15:44 <Zakim> Mario should now be muted
16:16:57 <christos> giorgio: the purpose of the questions was to focus the questions on some topics... aparrently we couldn;t achieve that due to the technical problems and the interactivity
16:17:53 <christos> shadi: problems aside, when it started it went quite well...
16:18:35 <christos> shadi: irc would allow interactivity but it would complicate people... I like  the idea of not having presentations
16:19:07 <christos> shadi: trying to find a solution about the audio strem
16:19:24 <Mario> A very good idea. But we have to have a microphone test before.
16:19:36 <giorgio> q+
16:19:46 <sharper> ack g
16:20:17 <christos> giorgio: adding another audio chanel only for output will limit interactivity
16:20:41 <giorgio> ok thanks
16:20:52 <Mario> What about using Teamspeak, it works better?
16:21:14 <christos> shadi: I'm thinking of audio + text strems from irc or twitter
16:21:17 <markel> I think that even worse than interactivity problems was the quality of some calls
16:21:18 <giorgio> q+
16:21:32 <sharper> ack g
16:21:53 <shawn> q+
16:21:56 <christos> giorgio: something it could help might be have a person to handle the microphone
16:22:17 <Mario> q+
16:22:18 <shawn> q+ to ask about the handling of q&a
16:22:39 <christos> sharper: Maybe he problem was that the presentations and the questions were quite quick
16:22:44 <shawn> ack me
16:22:45 <Zakim> shawn, you wanted to ask about the handling of q&a
16:23:39 <christos> shawn: I am not sure if the technical problems was the main problem
16:23:55 <sharper> q+
16:24:28 <giorgio> q+
16:24:33 <christos> shadi: nadia problem was local 
16:24:34 <shawn> ack me
16:24:42 <Mario> zakim, unmute me
16:24:42 <Zakim> Mario should no longer be muted
16:25:00 <christos> mario: I think the logistics were not bad
16:25:03 <markel> + 1 Mario
16:25:22 <christos> mario: i think we have to ensure the audio quality of the speaker
16:25:55 <sharper> ack m
16:25:57 <christos> mario: don't know how we can do it but maybe try it some days earlier
16:26:14 <Mario> zakim, mute me
16:26:14 <Zakim> Mario should now be muted
16:26:46 <christos> sharper: sound quality is dfficult to ensure... 
16:26:46 <Mario> Skype has a strong number limit in conferences.
16:26:48 <shawn> q+ to question landline costs versus travel
16:27:28 <christos> sharper: most of the opportunity for QA was in the end and some people could ahve been tired... forgot what they listened...
16:27:50 <sharper> ack me
16:27:51 <christos> sharper: the muting and unmuting wan not the main problem but 
16:27:56 <sharper> ack g
16:28:06 <christos> we could practice better
16:28:24 <christos> giorgio: I aggre on the quality
16:28:57 <christos> giorgio: a littli bit of practice ahead could help
16:29:29 <shawn> q+ to say separate irc channels?
16:29:36 <shawn> q+ to say G did great!
16:29:42 <christos> giorgio: as for raising hand and muting.... shawn did a great job... but I couldn't follow so much information in parallel
16:30:26 <christos> giorgio: a suggestion for the next format could be to go directly to the panel after a short presentation of each presenter
16:30:39 <shawn> ack me
16:30:39 <Zakim> shawn, you wanted to question landline costs versus travel and to say separate irc channels? and to say G did great!
16:30:41 <christos> giorgio: this way it could more intresting
16:30:50 <Mario> I find it is good idea, Giorgio.
16:31:04 <christos> shawn: giorgio, you did a great job at moderationg
16:31:17 <giorgio> too kind!
16:31:49 <christos> shawn: if we want to use irc we might need to use separate channel
16:32:11 <christos> shawn: to separate the logistics from the chat
16:32:50 <markel> good point about the costs
16:33:05 <shawn> zakim, mute me
16:33:05 <Zakim> Shawn should now be muted
16:33:09 <christos> shawn: one of the things about the cost... we are doing this instead of travel... so this might put it into different context
16:33:30 <Mario> W3 people, you could see, that the VOIP connection goes right!? - that about costs :-)
16:33:40 <christos> sharper: people in universties might have problems to convince about the need of this cost
16:33:46 <shawn> ack me
16:34:23 <shawn> q+ to say http://www.w3.org/WAI/RD/wiki/Seminar_Mechanics
16:35:43 <shadi> q+ to talk about symposium wrap-up
16:35:45 <christos> shawn:I've put together a wiki page for the seminar mechanics
16:36:25 <sharper> action on sharper to update http://www.w3.org/WAI/RD/wiki/Seminar_Mechanics with email and irc minutes comments  for the next symposium
16:36:25 <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - on
16:36:43 <shawn> q+ to say a suggestion for next step for this one: ask presenters to fill and correct transcript (e.g., Nadia seemed to be reading from notes) -- will need to be firm about them not *adding* information
16:36:56 <sharper> action: sharper to update http://www.w3.org/WAI/RD/wiki/Seminar_Mechanics with email and irc minutes comments  for the next symposium
16:36:57 <trackbot> Created ACTION-6 - Update http://www.w3.org/WAI/RD/wiki/Seminar_Mechanics with email and irc minutes comments  for the next symposium [on Simon Harper - due 2011-12-15].
16:37:03 <sharper> ack s
16:37:03 <Zakim> shadi, you wanted to talk about symposium wrap-up
16:37:06 <shawn> ack me
16:37:06 <Zakim> shawn, you wanted to say http://www.w3.org/WAI/RD/wiki/Seminar_Mechanics and to say a suggestion for next step for this one: ask presenters to fill and correct transcript (e.g.,
16:37:09 <Zakim> ... Nadia seemed to be reading from notes) -- will need to be firm about them not *adding* information
16:37:42 <christos> shawn: an idea for wrap up could be to fill in the transcripts
16:37:55 <shawn> zakim, mute me
16:37:55 <Zakim> Shawn should now be muted
16:38:00 <sharper> ack sh
16:38:49 <christos> shadi: I just recived the trascripts and I could forward it to presenters
16:38:50 <Mario> Please, circulate - I have not seen any transcript unfortunately.
16:39:03 <christos> shadi: I could use some help on that though
16:39:27 <giorgio> q+
16:39:39 <christos> sharper: I think we can circulate the transcrit and teh merge them all together
16:39:40 <sharper> ack g
16:40:05 <christos> giorgio: i agree with the idea of filling the transcripts
16:40:30 <Mario> I will send you also my script of the discussion.
16:40:53 <shawn> [ transcript should *not* be edited beyond clarification of what was said. that is, it should not contain any information not said (unless clearly indicated as an addition ]
16:40:55 <christos> sharper : we could publish some working notes 
16:41:08 <christos> sharper : before the trascript
16:41:31 <giorgio> i would suggst working on  text only file
16:41:46 <christos> merkel: I could convert the notes from a word ot a html document
16:42:06 <shawn> [ Shawn supports publishing verbatium transcript as HTML ]
16:42:38 <christos> shaper: I could use a tool to make it into html and publish that as working note
16:42:39 <giorgio> +1 simon
16:43:15 <shawn> [ Shawn wonders if a truely edited and enhanced transcript becomes a "Meeting Record" or something - as ooppsed to a verbatium with the (inaudible, etc. left in)]
16:43:20 <christos> giorgio: I sent the notes to the list
16:43:35 <markel> q+
16:44:21 <giorgio> very good idea, simon
16:44:27 <christos> giorgio: Our intention is to use the trascript to complete the outcomes note for the webinar
16:44:28 <shawn> ack me
16:44:33 <markel> .q
16:44:35 <markel> -q
16:44:59 <shawn> q+ 
16:45:11 <shawn> ack me
16:45:33 <giorgio> q+
16:45:56 <shawn> zakim, mute me
16:45:56 <Zakim> Shawn should now be muted
16:46:02 <christos> shawn: we could put it on the higher level wiki in order to make it easier for colaboration
16:46:31 <shawn> s/higher level wiki /higher level W3C wiki /
16:47:07 <christos> giorgio: If i was to do it I would send text files and merge them ... hopefully they will not change the same areas... and there will not be a conflict
16:47:20 <christos> giorgio: I think it would be easier..
16:47:43 <Mario> q+
16:47:44 <christos> markel: is it necesary... is the transcript so bad?
16:48:06 <christos> shaper: the first papers might have problems due to audio quality
16:48:55 <christos> markel: the problems are mainly on the presentations so we ha the slides too... the most important part though is the q&A
16:49:23 <Mario> zakim, unmute me
16:49:23 <Zakim> Mario should no longer be muted
16:49:40 <christos> markel: if the gaps are in the presentations then maybe we don't need the corrections
16:50:14 <giorgio> q+
16:50:19 <christos> mario: the most interesting thing is the quesitons so we need to look more on them
16:50:28 <Mario> zakim, mute me
16:50:31 <Zakim> Mario should now be muted
16:50:42 <christos> shaper: I think giorgio and markel should decide 
16:50:44 <Peter> (Sorry I didn't have much to contribute. I'm amazed how well things went! For myself, conference calls even between 5-10 ppl can be a challenge.)
16:51:16 <sharper> ack g
16:51:33 <sharper> +1 to that Peter
16:51:44 <christos> giorgio: I think that more inaudible parts were on the presentations
16:52:23 <christos> giorgio: we better continue with what we have and ask the presenter in case we have big gaps
16:52:49 <Peter> +1 schedule for next meetings
16:53:13 <christos> sharper: giorgio and markel can you give us about the w3c note
16:53:48 <christos> giorgio: we are thinkitng of presenting the main challenges and the contributions from the symposium
16:54:15 <christos> giorgio: especially regarding the panel questions
16:54:47 <christos> giorgio: we don;t have any timeframe for that 
16:55:25 <shadi> http://www.w3.org/WAI/RD/2011/metrics/cfp.html
16:55:42 <giorgio> wonderful
16:55:42 <christos> sharper: timeframe should be 1 and 1 and a  half month
16:55:58 <christos> but with christmas it should take longer
16:56:56 <shawn> q+ to say Shawn found this blog interesting http://martyncooper.wordpress.com/2011/12/06/web-accessibility-metrics/ (I listed it at the bottom of http://www.w3.org/WAI/RD/wiki/Benchmarking_Web_Accessibility_Metrics ) It might be useful to read when planning the Symposium report.
16:57:08 <Mario> q-
16:57:08 <markel> q+
16:57:14 <shawn> ack me
16:57:15 <Zakim> shawn, you wanted to say Shawn found this blog interesting http://martyncooper.wordpress.com/2011/12/06/web-accessibility-metrics/ (I listed it at the bottom of
16:57:18 <Zakim> ... http://www.w3.org/WAI/RD/wiki/Benchmarking_Web_Accessibility_Metrics ) It might be useful to read when planning the Symposium report.
16:57:34 <giorgio> I saw it too. thanks
16:57:34 <shadi> http://www.w3.org/WAI/RD/planning#seminar
16:57:48 <christos> shawn: I just put a link about the metrics and the symposium and it might be interesting for the note
16:58:02 <markel> q-
16:58:04 <shawn> zakim, mute me
16:58:04 <Zakim> Shawn should now be muted
16:58:30 <giorgio> how many and alsowho
16:58:31 <christos> markel: I wonder if we can have some statistics about attending the webinar 
16:59:06 <markel> thank you Shadi.
16:59:10 <shadi> q+ to confirm that papers will be linked
16:59:15 <christos> shadi: I wasn't able to clean up the proceedings but I could try to see ... but I don;t think we can list them out
16:59:34 <sharper> ack sha
16:59:34 <Zakim> shadi, you wanted to confirm that papers will be linked
16:59:39 <markel> OK
17:01:02 <Peter> cheers
17:01:03 <Mario> Thanks for the meeting
17:01:05 <markel> goodbye!!
17:01:06 <christos> goodby
17:01:07 <Zakim> -??P31
17:01:08 <Zakim> -Shawn
17:01:10 <Zakim> -sharper
17:01:12 <Zakim> -shadi
17:01:12 <Mario> Mario has left #rd
17:01:14 <Zakim> -markel
17:01:15 <markel> markel has left #rd
17:01:20 <Zakim> -Peter
17:01:26 <Zakim> -Mario
17:01:35 <Zakim> -christos
17:01:36 <Zakim> WAI_RDWG()11:00AM has ended
17:01:38 <Zakim> Attendees were christos, Peter, Shawn, sharper, shadi, markel, Mario, Giorgio
17:02:35 <shadi> trackbot, end meeting
17:02:35 <trackbot> Zakim, list attendees
17:02:35 <Zakim> sorry, trackbot, I don't know what conference this is
17:02:36 <trackbot> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
17:02:36 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/12/08-rd-minutes.html trackbot
17:02:37 <trackbot> RRSAgent, bye
17:02:37 <RRSAgent> I see 1 open action item saved in http://www.w3.org/2011/12/08-rd-actions.rdf :
17:02:37 <RRSAgent> ACTION: sharper to update http://www.w3.org/WAI/RD/wiki/Seminar_Mechanics with email and irc minutes comments  for the next symposium [1]
17:02:37 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/12/08-rd-irc#T16-36-56