IRC log of rd on 2011-12-08

Timestamps are in UTC.

15:53:29 [RRSAgent]: RRSAgent has joined #rd
15:53:29 [RRSAgent]: logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/12/08-rd-irc
15:53:31 [trackbot]: RRSAgent, make logs world
15:53:31 [Zakim]: Zakim has joined #rd
15:53:33 [trackbot]: Zakim, this will be 7394
15:53:33 [Zakim]: ok, trackbot; I see WAI_RDWG()11:00AM scheduled to start in 7 minutes
15:53:34 [trackbot]: Meeting: Research and Development Working Group Teleconference
15:53:34 [trackbot]: Date: 08 December 2011
15:54:48 [sharper]: sharper has joined #rd
15:55:04 [sharper]: zakim, agenda?
15:55:04 [Zakim]: I see nothing on the agenda
15:55:35 [sharper]: trackbot, start meeting
15:55:38 [trackbot]: RRSAgent, make logs world
15:55:40 [trackbot]: Zakim, this will be 7394
15:55:41 [trackbot]: Meeting: Research and Development Working Group Teleconference
15:55:41 [Zakim]: ok, trackbot; I see WAI_RDWG()11:00AM scheduled to start in 5 minutes
15:55:41 [trackbot]: Date: 08 December 2011
15:56:03 [Zakim]: WAI_RDWG()11:00AM has now started
15:56:09 [Zakim]: +??P37
15:56:32 [christos]: zakim, ??P37 is christos
15:56:32 [Zakim]: +christos; got it
15:57:07 [sharper]: Chair: Harper_Simon
15:57:21 [sharper]: Agenda+ Welcome & Logistics (Regrets, Agenda Requests, Comments)
15:57:34 [sharper]: Agenda+ Symposium De-Brief starting with http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-wai-rd/2011Dec/0007.html / http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-wai-rd/2011Dec/0008.html / http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-wai-rd/2011Dec/0009.html / http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-wai-rd/2011Dec/0010.html
15:57:37 [markel]: markel has joined #rd
15:57:51 [sharper]: Agenda+ Any Other Business
15:58:01 [sharper]: zakim, save agenda
15:58:08 [Zakim]: ok, sharper, the agenda has been written to http://www.w3.org/2011/12/08-rd-agenda.rdf
15:58:08 [sharper]: zakim, take up item 1
15:58:11 [Zakim]: agendum 1. "Welcome & Logistics (Regrets, Agenda Requests, Comments)" taken up [from sharper]
15:58:36 [sharper]: present+ Harper_Simon
15:58:51 [sharper]: regrets+ Yesilada_Yeliz
15:59:15 [sharper]: regrets+ Conway_Vivienne
15:59:29 [Peter]: Peter has joined #rd
16:00:01 [shawn]: shawn has joined #rd
16:00:07 [shawn]: zakim, code?
16:00:07 [Zakim]: the conference code is 7394 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), shawn
16:00:15 [Zakim]: +??P50
16:00:16 [Zakim]: +??P53
16:00:18 [Zakim]: +??P54
16:00:34 [Peter]: Zakim, ??P54 is me
16:00:34 [Zakim]: +Peter; got it
16:00:45 [Peter]: Zakim, mute me
16:00:53 [Zakim]: Peter should now be muted
16:00:53 [giorgio]: giorgio has joined #rd
16:01:03 [Zakim]: +Shawn
16:01:06 [Mario]: Mario has joined #rd
16:01:07 [shawn]: zakim, mute me
16:01:10 [sharper]: zakim, ??P50 is sharper
16:01:33 [Zakim]: Shawn should now be muted
16:01:37 [Zakim]: +sharper; got it
16:01:49 [Zakim]: +[IPcaller]
16:01:56 [shadi]: zakim, ipcaller is me
16:02:27 [Zakim]: +shadi; got it
16:02:54 [shadi]: zakim, who is on the phone?
16:03:23 [Zakim]: On the phone I see christos, sharper, ??P53, Peter (muted), Shawn (muted), shadi
16:03:44 [sharper]: zakim, ??P53 is markel
16:04:32 [christos]: mute me
16:04:37 [Zakim]: +markel; got it
16:05:00 [christos]: it was probably me
16:05:08 [christos]: ack me
16:05:52 [sharper]: ScribeNick: christos
16:06:14 [sharper]: Scribe: Kouroupetroglou_Christos
16:06:24 [Peter]: (i volunteer to be backup scribe :)
16:06:32 [Zakim]: +Mario
16:07:19 [shawn]: zakim, who is making noise?
16:07:26 [Zakim]: +??P67
16:07:31 [Mario]: zakim, mute me
16:07:52 [Zakim]: shawn, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: shadi (65%)
16:07:58 [Zakim]: Mario should now be muted
16:08:09 [giorgio]: yes
16:08:17 [giorgio]: i can hear you but apprently not speaking
16:08:33 [shadi]: zakim, ??p67 is Giorgio
16:08:35 [giorgio]: right
16:08:39 [Zakim]: +Giorgio; got it
16:09:03 [giorgio]: loal
16:09:40 [Zakim]: -Giorgio
16:10:04 [shadi]: agenda?
16:10:05 [christos]: sh: thanks to eveyone for the logistics
16:10:20 [shadi]: zakim, take up agendum 2
16:10:20 [Zakim]: agendum 2. "Symposium De-Brief starting with http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-wai-rd/2011Dec/0007.html /
16:10:22 [Zakim]: ... http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-wai-rd/2011Dec/0008.html / http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-wai-rd/2011Dec/0009.html /
16:10:25 [Zakim]: ... http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-wai-rd/2011Dec/0010.html" taken up [from sharper]
16:10:30 [Mario]: Yes, thanks very much!!!
16:11:50 [christos]: sh: feedback was good but we need to think about some cahnges
16:12:33 [christos]: marko: apart from the first 2 speakers the rest of the webinar went quite well
16:12:54 [christos]: marko: the length was ok
16:13:22 [christos]: marko: it is difficult to follow the presentation and the slides
16:13:33 [christos]: marko: interactivity is a problem
16:13:42 [Zakim]: +??P31
16:13:44 [Mario]: q+
16:14:03 [christos]: marko: the panel was good but we might need more time for questions
16:14:32 [Mario]: zakim, unmute me
16:14:32 [Zakim]: Mario should no longer be muted
16:14:45 [sharper]: ack ma
16:15:25 [christos]: mario: I had problem with the 3 questions to connect them to the papers
16:15:44 [Mario]: zakim, mute me
16:15:44 [Zakim]: Mario should now be muted
16:16:57 [christos]: giorgio: the purpose of the questions was to focus the questions on some topics... aparrently we couldn;t achieve that due to the technical problems and the interactivity
16:17:53 [christos]: shadi: problems aside, when it started it went quite well...
16:18:35 [christos]: shadi: irc would allow interactivity but it would complicate people... I like the idea of not having presentations
16:19:07 [christos]: shadi: trying to find a solution about the audio strem
16:19:24 [Mario]: A very good idea. But we have to have a microphone test before.
16:19:36 [giorgio]: q+
16:19:46 [sharper]: ack g
16:20:17 [christos]: giorgio: adding another audio chanel only for output will limit interactivity
16:20:41 [giorgio]: ok thanks
16:20:52 [Mario]: What about using Teamspeak, it works better?
16:21:14 [christos]: shadi: I'm thinking of audio + text strems from irc or twitter
16:21:17 [markel]: I think that even worse than interactivity problems was the quality of some calls
16:21:18 [giorgio]: q+
16:21:32 [sharper]: ack g
16:21:53 [shawn]: q+
16:21:56 [christos]: giorgio: something it could help might be have a person to handle the microphone
16:22:17 [Mario]: q+
16:22:18 [shawn]: q+ to ask about the handling of q&a
16:22:39 [christos]: sharper: Maybe he problem was that the presentations and the questions were quite quick
16:22:44 [shawn]: ack me
16:22:45 [Zakim]: shawn, you wanted to ask about the handling of q&a
16:23:39 [christos]: shawn: I am not sure if the technical problems was the main problem
16:23:55 [sharper]: q+
16:24:28 [giorgio]: q+
16:24:33 [christos]: shadi: nadia problem was local
16:24:34 [shawn]: ack me
16:24:42 [Mario]: zakim, unmute me
16:24:42 [Zakim]: Mario should no longer be muted
16:25:00 [christos]: mario: I think the logistics were not bad
16:25:03 [markel]: + 1 Mario
16:25:22 [christos]: mario: i think we have to ensure the audio quality of the speaker
16:25:55 [sharper]: ack m
16:25:57 [christos]: mario: don't know how we can do it but maybe try it some days earlier
16:26:14 [Mario]: zakim, mute me
16:26:14 [Zakim]: Mario should now be muted
16:26:46 [christos]: sharper: sound quality is dfficult to ensure...
16:26:46 [Mario]: Skype has a strong number limit in conferences.
16:26:48 [shawn]: q+ to question landline costs versus travel
16:27:28 [christos]: sharper: most of the opportunity for QA was in the end and some people could ahve been tired... forgot what they listened...
16:27:50 [sharper]: ack me
16:27:51 [christos]: sharper: the muting and unmuting wan not the main problem but
16:27:56 [sharper]: ack g
16:28:06 [christos]: we could practice better
16:28:24 [christos]: giorgio: I aggre on the quality
16:28:57 [christos]: giorgio: a littli bit of practice ahead could help
16:29:29 [shawn]: q+ to say separate irc channels?
16:29:36 [shawn]: q+ to say G did great!
16:29:42 [christos]: giorgio: as for raising hand and muting.... shawn did a great job... but I couldn't follow so much information in parallel
16:30:26 [christos]: giorgio: a suggestion for the next format could be to go directly to the panel after a short presentation of each presenter
16:30:39 [shawn]: ack me
16:30:39 [Zakim]: shawn, you wanted to question landline costs versus travel and to say separate irc channels? and to say G did great!
16:30:41 [christos]: giorgio: this way it could more intresting
16:30:50 [Mario]: I find it is good idea, Giorgio.
16:31:04 [christos]: shawn: giorgio, you did a great job at moderationg
16:31:17 [giorgio]: too kind!
16:31:49 [christos]: shawn: if we want to use irc we might need to use separate channel
16:32:11 [christos]: shawn: to separate the logistics from the chat
16:32:50 [markel]: good point about the costs
16:33:05 [shawn]: zakim, mute me
16:33:05 [Zakim]: Shawn should now be muted
16:33:09 [christos]: shawn: one of the things about the cost... we are doing this instead of travel... so this might put it into different context
16:33:30 [Mario]: W3 people, you could see, that the VOIP connection goes right!? - that about costs :-)
16:33:40 [christos]: sharper: people in universties might have problems to convince about the need of this cost
16:33:46 [shawn]: ack me
16:34:23 [shawn]: q+ to say http://www.w3.org/WAI/RD/wiki/Seminar_Mechanics
16:35:43 [shadi]: q+ to talk about symposium wrap-up
16:35:45 [christos]: shawn:I've put together a wiki page for the seminar mechanics
16:36:25 [sharper]: action on sharper to update http://www.w3.org/WAI/RD/wiki/Seminar_Mechanics with email and irc minutes comments for the next symposium
16:36:25 [trackbot]: Sorry, couldn't find user - on
16:36:43 [shawn]: q+ to say a suggestion for next step for this one: ask presenters to fill and correct transcript (e.g., Nadia seemed to be reading from notes) -- will need to be firm about them not *adding* information
16:36:56 [sharper]: action: sharper to update http://www.w3.org/WAI/RD/wiki/Seminar_Mechanics with email and irc minutes comments for the next symposium
16:36:57 [trackbot]: Created ACTION-6 - Update http://www.w3.org/WAI/RD/wiki/Seminar_Mechanics with email and irc minutes comments for the next symposium [on Simon Harper - due 2011-12-15].
16:37:03 [sharper]: ack s
16:37:03 [Zakim]: shadi, you wanted to talk about symposium wrap-up
16:37:06 [shawn]: ack me
16:37:06 [Zakim]: shawn, you wanted to say http://www.w3.org/WAI/RD/wiki/Seminar_Mechanics and to say a suggestion for next step for this one: ask presenters to fill and correct transcript (e.g.,
16:37:09 [Zakim]: ... Nadia seemed to be reading from notes) -- will need to be firm about them not *adding* information
16:37:42 [christos]: shawn: an idea for wrap up could be to fill in the transcripts
16:37:55 [shawn]: zakim, mute me
16:37:55 [Zakim]: Shawn should now be muted
16:38:00 [sharper]: ack sh
16:38:49 [christos]: shadi: I just recived the trascripts and I could forward it to presenters
16:38:50 [Mario]: Please, circulate - I have not seen any transcript unfortunately.
16:39:03 [christos]: shadi: I could use some help on that though
16:39:27 [giorgio]: q+
16:39:39 [christos]: sharper: I think we can circulate the transcrit and teh merge them all together
16:39:40 [sharper]: ack g
16:40:05 [christos]: giorgio: i agree with the idea of filling the transcripts
16:40:30 [Mario]: I will send you also my script of the discussion.
16:40:53 [shawn]: [ transcript should *not* be edited beyond clarification of what was said. that is, it should not contain any information not said (unless clearly indicated as an addition ]
16:40:55 [christos]: sharper : we could publish some working notes
16:41:08 [christos]: sharper : before the trascript
16:41:31 [giorgio]: i would suggst working on text only file
16:41:46 [christos]: merkel: I could convert the notes from a word ot a html document
16:42:06 [shawn]: [ Shawn supports publishing verbatium transcript as HTML ]
16:42:38 [christos]: shaper: I could use a tool to make it into html and publish that as working note
16:42:39 [giorgio]: +1 simon
16:43:15 [shawn]: [ Shawn wonders if a truely edited and enhanced transcript becomes a "Meeting Record" or something - as ooppsed to a verbatium with the (inaudible, etc. left in)]
16:43:20 [christos]: giorgio: I sent the notes to the list
16:43:35 [markel]: q+
16:44:21 [giorgio]: very good idea, simon
16:44:27 [christos]: giorgio: Our intention is to use the trascript to complete the outcomes note for the webinar
16:44:28 [shawn]: ack me
16:44:33 [markel]: .q
16:44:35 [markel]: -q
16:44:59 [shawn]: q+
16:45:11 [shawn]: ack me
16:45:33 [giorgio]: q+
16:45:56 [shawn]: zakim, mute me
16:45:56 [Zakim]: Shawn should now be muted
16:46:02 [christos]: shawn: we could put it on the higher level wiki in order to make it easier for colaboration
16:46:31 [shawn]: s/higher level wiki /higher level W3C wiki /
16:47:07 [christos]: giorgio: If i was to do it I would send text files and merge them ... hopefully they will not change the same areas... and there will not be a conflict
16:47:20 [christos]: giorgio: I think it would be easier..
16:47:43 [Mario]: q+
16:47:44 [christos]: markel: is it necesary... is the transcript so bad?
16:48:06 [christos]: shaper: the first papers might have problems due to audio quality
16:48:55 [christos]: markel: the problems are mainly on the presentations so we ha the slides too... the most important part though is the q&A
16:49:23 [Mario]: zakim, unmute me
16:49:23 [Zakim]: Mario should no longer be muted
16:49:40 [christos]: markel: if the gaps are in the presentations then maybe we don't need the corrections
16:50:14 [giorgio]: q+
16:50:19 [christos]: mario: the most interesting thing is the quesitons so we need to look more on them
16:50:28 [Mario]: zakim, mute me
16:50:31 [Zakim]: Mario should now be muted
16:50:42 [christos]: shaper: I think giorgio and markel should decide
16:50:44 [Peter]: (Sorry I didn't have much to contribute. I'm amazed how well things went! For myself, conference calls even between 5-10 ppl can be a challenge.)
16:51:16 [sharper]: ack g
16:51:33 [sharper]: +1 to that Peter
16:51:44 [christos]: giorgio: I think that more inaudible parts were on the presentations
16:52:23 [christos]: giorgio: we better continue with what we have and ask the presenter in case we have big gaps
16:52:49 [Peter]: +1 schedule for next meetings
16:53:13 [christos]: sharper: giorgio and markel can you give us about the w3c note
16:53:48 [christos]: giorgio: we are thinkitng of presenting the main challenges and the contributions from the symposium
16:54:15 [christos]: giorgio: especially regarding the panel questions
16:54:47 [christos]: giorgio: we don;t have any timeframe for that
16:55:25 [shadi]: http://www.w3.org/WAI/RD/2011/metrics/cfp.html
16:55:42 [giorgio]: wonderful
16:55:42 [christos]: sharper: timeframe should be 1 and 1 and a half month
16:55:58 [christos]: but with christmas it should take longer
16:56:56 [shawn]: q+ to say Shawn found this blog interesting http://martyncooper.wordpress.com/2011/12/06/web-accessibility-metrics/ (I listed it at the bottom of http://www.w3.org/WAI/RD/wiki/Benchmarking_Web_Accessibility_Metrics ) It might be useful to read when planning the Symposium report.
16:57:08 [Mario]: q-
16:57:08 [markel]: q+
16:57:14 [shawn]: ack me
16:57:15 [Zakim]: shawn, you wanted to say Shawn found this blog interesting http://martyncooper.wordpress.com/2011/12/06/web-accessibility-metrics/ (I listed it at the bottom of
16:57:18 [Zakim]: ... http://www.w3.org/WAI/RD/wiki/Benchmarking_Web_Accessibility_Metrics ) It might be useful to read when planning the Symposium report.
16:57:34 [giorgio]: I saw it too. thanks
16:57:34 [shadi]: http://www.w3.org/WAI/RD/planning#seminar
16:57:48 [christos]: shawn: I just put a link about the metrics and the symposium and it might be interesting for the note
16:58:02 [markel]: q-
16:58:04 [shawn]: zakim, mute me
16:58:04 [Zakim]: Shawn should now be muted
16:58:30 [giorgio]: how many and alsowho
16:58:31 [christos]: markel: I wonder if we can have some statistics about attending the webinar
16:59:06 [markel]: thank you Shadi.
16:59:10 [shadi]: q+ to confirm that papers will be linked
16:59:15 [christos]: shadi: I wasn't able to clean up the proceedings but I could try to see ... but I don;t think we can list them out
16:59:34 [sharper]: ack sha
16:59:34 [Zakim]: shadi, you wanted to confirm that papers will be linked
16:59:39 [markel]: OK
17:01:02 [Peter]: cheers
17:01:03 [Mario]: Thanks for the meeting
17:01:05 [markel]: goodbye!!
17:01:06 [christos]: goodby
17:01:07 [Zakim]: -??P31
17:01:08 [Zakim]: -Shawn
17:01:10 [Zakim]: -sharper
17:01:12 [Zakim]: -shadi
17:01:12 [Mario]: Mario has left #rd
17:01:14 [Zakim]: -markel
17:01:15 [markel]: markel has left #rd
17:01:20 [Zakim]: -Peter
17:01:26 [Zakim]: -Mario
17:01:35 [Zakim]: -christos
17:01:36 [Zakim]: WAI_RDWG()11:00AM has ended
17:01:38 [Zakim]: Attendees were christos, Peter, Shawn, sharper, shadi, markel, Mario, Giorgio
17:02:35 [shadi]: trackbot, end meeting
17:02:35 [trackbot]: Zakim, list attendees
17:02:35 [Zakim]: sorry, trackbot, I don't know what conference this is
17:02:36 [trackbot]: RRSAgent, please draft minutes
17:02:36 [RRSAgent]: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/12/08-rd-minutes.html trackbot
17:02:37 [trackbot]: RRSAgent, bye
17:02:37 [RRSAgent]: I see 1 open action item saved in http://www.w3.org/2011/12/08-rd-actions.rdf :
17:02:37 [RRSAgent]: ACTION: sharper to update http://www.w3.org/WAI/RD/wiki/Seminar_Mechanics with email and irc minutes comments for the next symposium [1]
17:02:37 [RRSAgent]: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/12/08-rd-irc#T16-36-56