16:02:10 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #html-a11y
16:02:10 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/12/08-html-a11y-irc
16:02:12 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
16:02:14 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 2119
16:02:15 <trackbot> Meeting: HTML Accessibility Task Force Teleconference
16:02:15 <trackbot> Date: 08 December 2011
16:02:47 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #html-a11y
16:02:50 <MichaelC> zakim, this is 2119
16:02:58 <MichaelC> zakim, who's on the phone?
16:03:05 <JF> JF has joined #html-a11y
16:03:17 <Zakim> ok, MichaelC; that matches WAI_PFWG(HTML TF)11:00AM
16:03:18 <kford> kford has joined #html-a11y
16:03:27 <Zakim> On the phone I see John_Foliot, [Microsoft], [Microsoft.a], ??P20
16:03:34 <MichaelC> zakim, ??P20 is Michael_Cooper
16:03:41 <Zakim> +Rich_Schwerdtfeger
16:03:42 <MichaelC> zakim, who's on the phone?
16:03:53 <Zakim> +??P24
16:03:59 <MichaelC> zakim, ??P24 is Janina_Sajka
16:04:24 <MichaelC> zakim, Microsoft.a is Kelly_Ford
16:04:25 <Zakim> +Michael_Cooper; got it
16:04:30 <MichaelC> zakim, Microsoft is Paul_Cotton
16:04:33 <Zakim> On the phone I see John_Foliot, [Microsoft], [Microsoft.a], Michael_Cooper, Rich_Schwerdtfeger, ??P24
16:04:51 <janina> janina has joined #html-a11y
16:04:58 <Zakim> +Janina_Sajka; got it
16:05:04 <JAllan> JAllan has joined #html-a11y
16:05:08 <janina> zakim, who's on the phone?
16:05:11 <Zakim> +Kelly_Ford; got it
16:05:17 <Zakim> +Paul_Cotton; got it
16:05:25 <Zakim> +Jim_Allan
16:06:07 <Zakim> On the phone I see John_Foliot, Paul_Cotton, Kelly_Ford, Michael_Cooper, Rich_Schwerdtfeger, Janina_Sajka, Jim_Allan
16:06:46 <Stevef> Stevef has joined #html-a11y
16:07:02 <MichaelC> scribe: MichaelC
16:07:24 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
16:07:31 <MichaelC> zakim, IPcaller is Léonie_Watson
16:07:56 <Zakim> +Léonie_Watson; got it
16:08:04 <janina> Meeting: HTML-A11Y Task Force Teleconference
16:08:05 <janina> Chair: Janina_Sajka
16:08:05 <janina> Scribe:
16:08:05 <janina> agenda+ canvas Issue-131 CP Status http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2011Dec/0085.html
16:08:05 <janina> agenda+ Drag and Drop
16:08:05 <janina> agenda+ review some RESOLVED/NEEDSINFO LC a11y bugs: http://goo.gl/J7WnX
16:08:06 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
16:08:07 <janina> agenda+ Subteam Reports: Bug Triage; ARIA Mapping; Text; Media
16:08:09 <janina> agenda+ Other Business
16:08:11 <janina> agenda+ Actions Review http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/track/actions/open
16:08:13 <janina> agenda+ Identify Scribe for 15 December http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/index.php?title=Scribe_List
16:08:15 <janina> agenda+ be done
16:08:17 <janina>  
16:08:31 <richardschwerdtfe> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/ChangeProposals/FocusRingTextBaseline
16:08:32 <Zakim> +Cynthia_Shelly
16:08:44 <MichaelC> zakim, Ipcaller is probably Steve_Faulkner
16:08:44 <Zakim> +Steve_Faulkner?; got it
16:09:10 <MichaelC> agenda?
16:09:20 <richardschwerdtfe> http://dev.w3.org/html5/2dcontext/#text
16:09:22 <MichaelC> zakim, next item
16:09:32 <Zakim> agendum 1. "canvas Issue-131 CP Status http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2011Dec/0085.html" taken up [from janina]
16:09:48 <MichaelC> rs: multiple baselines
16:09:50 <MichaelC> see above link
16:10:01 <MichaelC> which led to confusion
16:10:18 <MichaelC> clarifying which baseline has cleared up issue
16:10:32 <MichaelC> pc: trying to repoen issue because disagree with decision, or providing new information?
16:10:35 <MichaelC> rs: new information
16:10:59 <MichaelC> previous change proposal turned out not to have enough detail
16:11:04 <MichaelC> because wasn't clear in spec
16:11:34 <MichaelC> pc: wondering if this is so chairs will continue dialogue with editor
16:11:56 <MichaelC> js: by picking a specific baseline, it's not unclear so easier to discuss around
16:12:19 <MichaelC> rs: Maciej requested a diff between change proposals, have provided one
16:13:26 <MichaelC> pc: so need TF endorsement, then official sending to chair
16:13:42 <MichaelC> js: any objection to forwarding?
16:14:23 <Zakim> -Jim_Allan
16:14:43 <Zakim> +Jim_Allan
16:16:00 <MichaelC> RESOLUTION: forward change proposal at http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/ChangeProposals/FocusRingTextBaseline to HTML WG chairs (cc HTML WG) with note it reopens HTML-ISSUE-131
16:16:32 <MichaelC> zakim, next item
16:16:32 <Zakim> agendum 2. "Drag and Drop" taken up [from janina]
16:17:13 <MichaelC> js: asked Jim, Kelly, Everett to join call to discuss this
16:17:51 <MichaelC> jf: Everett put out some questions about drag and drop
16:17:55 <MichaelC> didn't get feedback
16:17:55 <JAllan> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2011Nov/0155.html
16:18:11 <LeonieW> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2011Nov/0155.html
16:18:54 <MichaelC> js: should these questions be addressed by HTML, or by User Agent Accessibility Guidelines?
16:19:05 <MichaelC> ja: thought this was covered in keyboard access part of UAAG
16:19:38 <MichaelC> under principle that everything you can do with a mouse you can do with a keyboard
16:19:50 <MichaelC> has been demonstrated doable
16:20:01 <MichaelC> and browser could handle it
16:20:07 <MichaelC> cs: are there examples and techniques?
16:20:10 <MichaelC> ja: we could add some
16:20:28 <MichaelC> kf: that seems accurate summary of situation
16:21:14 <MichaelC> mc: need a specific methodology for drag and drop with keyboard
16:21:22 <MichaelC> browsers won't "just know" how to do it
16:21:29 <MichaelC> UAAG techniques could describe this
16:22:03 <MichaelC> ja: yes, can do in UAAG techniques since UAAG has the requirement
16:22:35 <MichaelC> jf: questions about user interaction rules specified in HTML
16:22:51 <MichaelC> ja: that should be fleshed out in HTML 5 and then UAAG can reflect
16:23:07 <MichaelC> kf: like having the guidance in HTML 5 because higher visibility; UAAG can supplement
16:23:17 <MichaelC> jf: think there are good questions in Everett's message
16:23:24 <MichaelC> attempting to escalate review of this...
16:24:41 <MichaelC> e.g., question 3 on img and a elements are draggable by default, are there ARIA features that should also be draggable?
16:24:52 <MichaelC> js: that is for sure an HTML 5 question
16:25:00 <richardschwerdtfe> brb
16:25:07 <MichaelC> are there any UAAG quetsions?
16:25:14 <MichaelC> kf: these really seem like HTML 5 questions
16:25:22 <MichaelC> jf: so what's next step?
16:25:36 <MichaelC> file bugs? note clock is ticking
16:25:39 <Judy> Judy has joined #html-a11y
16:26:00 <Zakim> +Judy
16:26:36 <MichaelC> lw: though first two issues were duplicates of bug 8800
16:26:52 <MichaelC> sf: so need to review outcome of that bug
16:27:09 <MichaelC> lw: or push on that
16:27:47 <MichaelC> js: if we tell Everett we support his analysis and think it should get escalated through existing and new bugs
16:28:42 <MichaelC> pc: HTML 5 editor looking both at Last Call bugs, and post-LC bugs
16:29:01 <MichaelC> these might get looked at in soonish timeframe, though we don't have a mechanism to guarantee
16:29:21 <MichaelC> providing motivating case for problem and explicit change proposal likely to help with processing
16:29:57 <MichaelC> js: asks JF to coordinate with Everett, Jim, Kelly on moving this forward
16:30:13 <MichaelC> ja: will look at UAAG overlap
16:30:26 <MichaelC> also will look into voice navigation aspect
16:32:16 <MichaelC> lw: Everett has content knowledge but needs process support from us
16:33:18 <MichaelC> js: support looking at keyboard, voice, and other device-independence use cases
16:33:37 <MichaelC> hope Independent User Interface will generacise the problem
16:34:08 <MichaelC> http://www.w3.org/2011/11/indie-ui-charter
16:34:45 <MichaelC> zakim, next item
16:34:45 <Zakim> agendum 3. "review some RESOLVED/NEEDSINFO LC a11y bugs: http://goo.gl/J7WnX" taken up [from janina]
16:35:43 <MichaelC> pc: HTML 5 is processing bugs rapidly
16:36:41 <MichaelC> jb: including those set to needsinfo, wontfix, etc.?
16:36:49 <MichaelC> pc: includes all states
16:38:20 <MichaelC> count is down to 30, editor doing a lot of work on them for 31 Dec deadline
16:38:33 <MichaelC> based on numbers of escalations, not everyone agreeing with dispositions
16:38:49 <Judy> q+
16:38:52 <Stevef> q+
16:38:52 <MichaelC> chairs are issuing calls for change proposals in response to these
16:38:54 <MichaelC> ack 
16:39:03 <MichaelC> ack j
16:39:33 <MichaelC> jb: a week ago numbers in various categories were higher
16:40:19 <MichaelC> if more marked as wontfix etc. we have higher workload to process those
16:41:07 <MichaelC> sf: <missed>
16:41:18 <MichaelC> pc: for 31 Dec editor will push bug count on his plate to 0
16:41:35 <MichaelC> for 13 Jan, we have deadline to escalate any we disagree with
16:41:59 <MichaelC> helpful to provide evidence before 31 Dec particularly for needsinfo
16:42:16 <janina> q?
16:42:16 <Judy> s/including those set to needsinfo, wontfix, etc/including those set to won't fix, worksforme, etc/
16:42:22 <janina> ack st
16:42:52 <MichaelC> you can see accelerated bug processing
16:43:12 <MichaelC> sf: what is status of issues that have been queuing up?
16:43:41 <MichaelC> pc: have been focusing on unblocking HTML 5 and canvas publication
16:44:01 <MichaelC> so that's priority
16:44:17 <MichaelC> chairs are about to release review of one of the HTML-ISSUE-30 change proposals
16:44:19 <Judy> q+
16:44:46 <MichaelC> ack j
16:45:19 <Stevef> q+
16:45:26 <MichaelC> jb: see a bigger workload in front of us, or timing over holidays tight
16:46:00 <MichaelC> pc: well, it's better than editor working on his deadline the day before
16:46:31 <MichaelC> jb: for messaging, should be clear it's editor resolutions, not WG resolutions
16:47:34 <MichaelC> pc: chairs not planning specific messaging
16:48:11 <MichaelC> js: so for needsinfo, we want to provide the info, so they don't languish un-updated
16:50:27 <MichaelC> mc: think there are new needsinfo bugs that need taking owners
16:53:14 <MichaelC> <more discussion on messaging>
16:53:32 <MichaelC> <discussion on handling bugs as they get processed>
16:53:34 <Judy> ack j
16:53:42 <MichaelC> ack s
16:54:12 <MichaelC> sf: there are two reopen requests that need info from JS
16:54:22 <MichaelC> js: yes, let's talk to get that
16:58:02 <Zakim> -Kelly_Ford
16:58:09 <Stevef> just resolved needsinfo bug https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=11956
16:58:20 <paulc> I have leave for the WG call since I am chairing today.
16:58:36 <Zakim> -Paul_Cotton
16:59:08 <Zakim> -Steve_Faulkner?
17:01:24 <Zakim> -Cynthia_Shelly
17:01:42 <Zakim> -Léonie_Watson
17:01:46 <Zakim> -Jim_Allan
17:01:48 <Zakim> -Judy
17:01:50 <Zakim> -Michael_Cooper
17:01:52 <Zakim> -John_Foliot
17:01:56 <Zakim> -Janina_Sajka
17:02:18 <Zakim> -Rich_Schwerdtfeger
17:02:19 <Zakim> WAI_PFWG(HTML TF)11:00AM has ended
17:02:20 <Zakim> Attendees were John_Foliot, Rich_Schwerdtfeger, Michael_Cooper, Janina_Sajka, Kelly_Ford, Paul_Cotton, Jim_Allan, Léonie_Watson, Cynthia_Shelly, Steve_Faulkner?, Judy
18:39:05 <Stevef> Stevef has joined #html-a11y
20:16:19 <MichaelC> trackbot, end meeting
20:16:19 <trackbot> Zakim, list attendees
20:16:19 <Zakim> sorry, trackbot, I don't know what conference this is
20:16:20 <trackbot> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
20:16:20 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/12/08-html-a11y-minutes.html trackbot
20:16:21 <trackbot> RRSAgent, bye
20:16:21 <RRSAgent> I see no action items
20:18:11 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #html-a11y
20:18:11 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/12/08-html-a11y-irc
20:18:14 <MichaelC> rrsagent, make minutes
20:18:14 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/12/08-html-a11y-minutes.html MichaelC
20:18:29 <MichaelC> rrsagent, bye
20:18:37 <MichaelC> rrsagent, make log world
20:18:39 <MichaelC> rrsagent, bye
20:18:39 <RRSAgent> I see no action items