IRC log of xproc on 2011-12-01

Timestamps are in UTC.

14:31:28 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #xproc
14:31:28 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/12/01-xproc-irc
14:31:46 [Norm]
set logs world-visible
14:31:53 [Norm]
rrsagent, set logs world-visible
14:31:57 [Norm]
rrsagent, draft minutes
14:31:57 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/12/01-xproc-minutes.html Norm
14:36:40 [jfuller]
we on in 30 mins ... timezone changes usurps my confidence in office clocks
14:36:50 [Norm]
yes, 24 min.
14:36:54 [Norm]
thanks, caribou
14:45:44 [Norm]
ok, thanks
14:53:24 [PGrosso]
PGrosso has joined #xproc
14:54:59 [Norm]
Meeting: XML Processing Model WG
14:54:59 [Norm]
Date: 1 December 2011
14:54:59 [Norm]
Agenda: http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2011/12/01-agenda
14:54:59 [Norm]
Meeting: 203
14:54:59 [Norm]
Chair: Norm
14:54:59 [Norm]
Scribe: Norm
14:55:02 [Norm]
ScribeNick: Norm
14:55:59 [PGrosso]
only 365 days until November 30th.
14:59:07 [ht]
ht has joined #xproc
14:59:20 [Vojtech]
Vojtech has joined #xproc
14:59:56 [PGrosso]
Zakim, this is xproc
14:59:56 [Zakim]
ok, PGrosso; that matches XML_PMWG()10:00AM
15:00:02 [Zakim]
+[IPcaller]
15:00:16 [Zakim]
-[IPcaller]
15:00:31 [Norm]
zakim, passcode?
15:00:31 [Zakim]
the conference code is 97762 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), Norm
15:00:38 [Zakim]
+Norm
15:00:41 [Norm]
zakim, who's here?
15:00:41 [Zakim]
On the phone I see PGrosso, Norm
15:00:43 [Zakim]
On IRC I see Vojtech, ht, PGrosso, RRSAgent, Zakim, Norm, jfuller, Liam, caribou
15:00:48 [jfuller]
coming ...
15:01:25 [Zakim]
+[IPcaller]
15:01:40 [Norm]
zakim, [IP is jfuller
15:01:40 [Zakim]
+jfuller; got it
15:01:56 [Zakim]
+Jeroen
15:02:04 [Vojtech]
zakim, jeroen is me
15:02:04 [Zakim]
+Vojtech; got it
15:02:19 [Norm]
Regrets: Mohamed
15:04:11 [ht]
Apologies -- I'm stuck in a meeting and can't get out
15:04:26 [ht]
Ping me here for any query I can address in this medium
15:04:41 [Norm]
zakim, who's here?
15:04:41 [Zakim]
On the phone I see PGrosso, Norm, jfuller, Vojtech
15:04:43 [Zakim]
On IRC I see Vojtech, ht, PGrosso, RRSAgent, Zakim, Norm, jfuller, Liam, caribou
15:04:50 [Norm]
Present: Paul, Norm, Jim, Vojtech
15:04:55 [Norm]
Regrets: Mohamed, Henry
15:05:15 [Norm]
Topic: Accept this agenda?
15:05:15 [Norm]
-> http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2011/12/01-agenda
15:05:19 [Norm]
Accepted.
15:05:28 [Norm]
Topic: Accept minutes from the previous meeting?
15:05:28 [Norm]
-> http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2011/11/10-minutes.html
15:05:51 [jfuller]
just updating http://www.w3.org/XML/Processing/
15:05:54 [Norm]
Accepted.
15:06:03 [Norm]
Topic: Next meeting: telcon, 15 December 2011.
15:06:48 [Norm]
Accepted.
15:07:02 [Norm]
topic: Review of open actions/processor profiles progress
15:07:04 [alexmilowski]
alexmilowski has joined #xproc
15:07:22 [Norm]
Henry, I think, has completed his actions. New draft published a few days ago: http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/docs/diff.html
15:07:48 [Norm]
Jim: I've looked through the draft with the idea of tracing our comments from cmsmcq and we have one outstanding thing, but everything else seems good.
15:07:58 [Norm]
Norm: Thanks.
15:08:01 [Norm]
Jim: Shall we look at that one?
15:08:04 [Norm]
Norm: Yes, let's.
15:08:30 [Norm]
-> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xml-processing-model-comments/2011Apr/0003.html
15:08:48 [Norm]
-> http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2010/11/lc-comments/
15:09:13 [Norm]
Jim: The outstanding point is 17, recursive XInclude processing. I wanted to ask Henry if he thought he had addressed it.
15:09:28 [Zakim]
+Alex_Milows
15:09:39 [Norm]
Present: Paul, Norm, Jim, Vojtech, Alex
15:09:52 [Norm]
Jim: Michael thought we should remind folks that XInclude processing is recursive.
15:10:26 [Norm]
Norm: I didn't see it, but I don't have any objections to adding it.
15:10:28 [Norm]
Jim: So shall I?
15:10:39 [Norm]
Vojtech: Murray mentions it in the text he wrote.
15:10:54 [jfuller]
redo image for displaying profiles relation to each other
15:10:55 [jfuller]
definition of terms - EXPAND TERM GLOSSARY IN SECTION 1.1
15:10:55 [jfuller]
match existing processors to profiles
15:10:55 [jfuller]
integrate Murray rationale / Jim to suggest a short rationale for our picking each of
15:10:55 [jfuller]
CMSMCQ - Conformance
15:10:55 [jfuller]
address/tracking Vojtech comments
15:10:57 [jfuller]
TRACKING CMSMCQ Comments
15:11:10 [Norm]
Jim: Those are my tasks. I'll add XInclude in there.
15:11:54 [Norm]
Jim: There are other things that depend on my task getting done. There are a few other of cmsmcq's comments that are still pending my tasks.
15:12:00 [Norm]
Jim: I should be done by tomorrow.
15:12:45 [Norm]
Norm: Thanks, Jim. If you can get it done tomorrow we can try to make progress in email next week.
15:12:49 [Norm]
Paul: I already sent in some comments.
15:13:52 [Norm]
-> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xml-processing-model-wg/2011Nov/0012.html
15:15:22 [Norm]
Norm suggests that we let the editor tackle them.
15:15:33 [Norm]
Paul: Well, I think we should talk about swapping the sections.
15:16:17 [Norm]
Norm: I'm reluctant to swap them.
15:16:43 [Norm]
Paul: Ok, then just adding an explanatory sentence at the top of section 2 pointing out that those terms are defined in section 3. I'm happy to leave that to the editor.
15:16:47 [jfuller]
+1
15:17:33 [Norm]
Norm: So, Jim, are you happy to attempt to address these?
15:17:36 [Norm]
Jim: Yes, I'm fine.
15:18:31 [Norm]
Jim: Vojtech, you mentioned a couple of things last time. Have they been addressed?
15:18:39 [Norm]
Vojtech: Let me see...
15:19:11 [Norm]
...Yes, I think so.
15:19:23 [Norm]
Jim: And in section 4.2.2 and 4.2.3, are those better too?
15:20:11 [Norm]
Some discussion of those comments especially wrt unexpanded entity references.
15:21:14 [Norm]
Vojtech: Let me take a look at my comments and get back to you.
15:22:28 [Norm]
Alex: I'm looking at Henry's note about what he changed; at the f2f, I think we had issues with the sections we're discussing.
15:22:45 [Norm]
...It sounds like Henry thinks he's done. But yet, this section has the same reference problem.
15:24:28 [Norm]
The group looks through f2f minutes for discussion and actions.
15:25:09 [Norm]
Alex: Yes, there they are in the minutes of 31 October.
15:25:12 [Norm]
...But there's no action.
15:27:38 [Vojtech]
Regarding the Unexpanded Entiry Reference prose in 4.2.2, I was wondering at the f2f whether that item should be there at all. But I think that Henry's new prose is clear enough and I was just confused.
15:28:31 [Norm]
Some discussion of the term "EII" which clearly needs to be expanded.
15:28:42 [Norm]
Alex: I guess I need to review it again and see if I'm satisfied.
15:29:19 [Norm]
Jim: So should I add EII to the glosasry?
15:29:24 [Norm]
s/glosas/glossa/
15:29:37 [Norm]
Norm: No, I think you should expand EII to Element Information Item
15:29:51 [Norm]
Alex: What about numbering them or labeling them somehow and then just referring to the label?
15:30:45 [Norm]
Norm: I'm worried that labeling will make it more confusing, but I'm happy to leave it to the editor to try to expand EII in a way that's clear.
15:38:11 [Norm]
Some discussion of how to improve section 4.2.
15:38:17 [Norm]
Alex: Should I try to hash it out with Henry?
15:39:15 [Norm]
Norm: That seems reasonable. Jim's got a lot of things on his plate so I think if he did this last that would give you time.
15:39:17 [Norm]
Jim: Yes.
15:39:22 [Norm]
Alex: Ok, I'll see what I can do.
15:40:43 [Norm]
Norm: Why don't we say this: Jim will work on his items, Alex you try to close the loop with Henry and come up with a revision, and if you can't reach Henry today or tomorrow, Jim just makes the minimal fix of expanding EII.
15:41:10 [Norm]
...If we got agreement on everything except 4.2, I think that'd be progress.
15:41:21 [Norm]
Jim: These are related to the issues you raised, right Vojtech?
15:41:27 [Norm]
Vojtech: Well, somewhat. In a different way.
15:42:18 [Norm]
Vojtech: I've gotten used to this section now, so maybe with the picture it could be improved.
15:42:24 [Norm]
Jim: Right, I have a new draft of the picture.
15:43:04 [Norm]
Regrets: Mohamed, Henry, Cornelia
15:44:41 [Norm]
Norm: I have one other comment. I hate the word "outcomes" in 1.1 Background.
15:45:09 [Norm]
I think "data models" is much clearer there.
15:45:27 [Norm]
Paul: But we wanted to avoid the word data model.
15:45:41 [Norm]
General agreement.
15:45:50 [Norm]
Paul: The agreeement at the f2f was that we'd take itout.
15:45:57 [Norm]
Norm caves. "Nevermind then"
15:47:00 [Norm]
Norm: Any other comments about the draft today?
15:47:15 [Norm]
Norm: OK. I think it's coming together quite well.
15:47:38 [Norm]
Topic: Use cases/requirements/charter for V.next
15:48:05 [Norm]
Norm: I've heard nothing from Liam about the charter. I don't think there's been much other discussion.
15:48:14 [Norm]
...Is there something that folks would like to talk about?
15:48:55 [Norm]
Alex: Shouldn't we try to make some progress?
15:49:05 [Norm]
Norm: Yes, do you have a specific suggestion?
15:49:13 [Norm]
Alex: Henry and I were talking about the binding work that I'm doing.
15:49:48 [Norm]
Norm: Yes, I encourage you to write that up!
15:49:58 [Norm]
Jim: I've been doing some work with XProc to manage Hadoop jobs. I could write that up.
15:50:05 [Norm]
Alex: Do we want to engage the community on xproc-dev?
15:50:11 [Norm]
...We're going to get a bunch of stuff.
15:51:21 [Norm]
Jim: I think we're busy on the processing models document; we'll make more progress after, I think. I'm thinking of doing an XProc training day before XML Prague.
15:51:31 [Norm]
Alex: We also need to do some marketing.
15:52:00 [Norm]
Jim: Well, marketing and community building. I think we need to start something grassroots. That's why I was thinking the training thing would be a good way to generate some reusable training materials.
15:52:18 [Norm]
...Having the ability to download standard pipelines would be great.
15:52:46 [Norm]
...I can try to get some articles written.
15:53:00 [Norm]
...Someone from Rackspace added XML Calabash to the Maven repository.
15:53:55 [Norm]
Norm: With my chair's hat on, I find it hard to formulate next steps. Partly I think we just need to get the processing model document finished.
15:54:31 [Norm]
Alex: Yes, let's get that done. And keep updating the wiki.
15:54:44 [Norm]
Norm: Any parting comments, we're just about out of time.
15:55:05 [Norm]
Jim: I think there's been a tiny little uptick in usage. That's heartening.
15:55:19 [Norm]
Topic: Any other business?
15:55:45 [Norm]
Vojtech: We're also seeing more commercial interest.
15:56:10 [Norm]
None heard.
15:56:31 [Norm]
Adjourned.
15:56:37 [Zakim]
-Vojtech
15:56:42 [Zakim]
-PGrosso
15:56:42 [Norm]
rrsagent, draft minutes
15:56:42 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/12/01-xproc-minutes.html Norm
15:56:44 [Zakim]
-Alex_Milows
15:56:46 [Zakim]
-Norm
15:56:48 [Zakim]
-jfuller
15:56:50 [Zakim]
XML_PMWG()10:00AM has ended
15:56:56 [Zakim]
Attendees were PGrosso, [IPcaller], Norm, jfuller, Vojtech, Alex_Milows
15:57:10 [PGrosso]
PGrosso has left #xproc
17:28:34 [Zakim]
Zakim has left #xproc
18:06:56 [ht]
ht has joined #xproc