14:31:28 RRSAgent has joined #xproc 14:31:28 logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/12/01-xproc-irc 14:31:46 set logs world-visible 14:31:53 rrsagent, set logs world-visible 14:31:57 rrsagent, draft minutes 14:31:57 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/12/01-xproc-minutes.html Norm 14:36:40 we on in 30 mins ... timezone changes usurps my confidence in office clocks 14:36:50 yes, 24 min. 14:36:54 thanks, caribou 14:45:44 ok, thanks 14:53:24 PGrosso has joined #xproc 14:54:59 Meeting: XML Processing Model WG 14:54:59 Date: 1 December 2011 14:54:59 Agenda: http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2011/12/01-agenda 14:54:59 Meeting: 203 14:54:59 Chair: Norm 14:54:59 Scribe: Norm 14:55:02 ScribeNick: Norm 14:55:59 only 365 days until November 30th. 14:59:07 ht has joined #xproc 14:59:20 Vojtech has joined #xproc 14:59:56 Zakim, this is xproc 14:59:56 ok, PGrosso; that matches XML_PMWG()10:00AM 15:00:02 +[IPcaller] 15:00:16 -[IPcaller] 15:00:31 zakim, passcode? 15:00:31 the conference code is 97762 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), Norm 15:00:38 +Norm 15:00:41 zakim, who's here? 15:00:41 On the phone I see PGrosso, Norm 15:00:43 On IRC I see Vojtech, ht, PGrosso, RRSAgent, Zakim, Norm, jfuller, Liam, caribou 15:00:48 coming ... 15:01:25 +[IPcaller] 15:01:40 zakim, [IP is jfuller 15:01:40 +jfuller; got it 15:01:56 +Jeroen 15:02:04 zakim, jeroen is me 15:02:04 +Vojtech; got it 15:02:19 Regrets: Mohamed 15:04:11 Apologies -- I'm stuck in a meeting and can't get out 15:04:26 Ping me here for any query I can address in this medium 15:04:41 zakim, who's here? 15:04:41 On the phone I see PGrosso, Norm, jfuller, Vojtech 15:04:43 On IRC I see Vojtech, ht, PGrosso, RRSAgent, Zakim, Norm, jfuller, Liam, caribou 15:04:50 Present: Paul, Norm, Jim, Vojtech 15:04:55 Regrets: Mohamed, Henry 15:05:15 Topic: Accept this agenda? 15:05:15 -> http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2011/12/01-agenda 15:05:19 Accepted. 15:05:28 Topic: Accept minutes from the previous meeting? 15:05:28 -> http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2011/11/10-minutes.html 15:05:51 just updating http://www.w3.org/XML/Processing/ 15:05:54 Accepted. 15:06:03 Topic: Next meeting: telcon, 15 December 2011. 15:06:48 Accepted. 15:07:02 topic: Review of open actions/processor profiles progress 15:07:04 alexmilowski has joined #xproc 15:07:22 Henry, I think, has completed his actions. New draft published a few days ago: http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/docs/diff.html 15:07:48 Jim: I've looked through the draft with the idea of tracing our comments from cmsmcq and we have one outstanding thing, but everything else seems good. 15:07:58 Norm: Thanks. 15:08:01 Jim: Shall we look at that one? 15:08:04 Norm: Yes, let's. 15:08:30 -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xml-processing-model-comments/2011Apr/0003.html 15:08:48 -> http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2010/11/lc-comments/ 15:09:13 Jim: The outstanding point is 17, recursive XInclude processing. I wanted to ask Henry if he thought he had addressed it. 15:09:28 +Alex_Milows 15:09:39 Present: Paul, Norm, Jim, Vojtech, Alex 15:09:52 Jim: Michael thought we should remind folks that XInclude processing is recursive. 15:10:26 Norm: I didn't see it, but I don't have any objections to adding it. 15:10:28 Jim: So shall I? 15:10:39 Vojtech: Murray mentions it in the text he wrote. 15:10:54 redo image for displaying profiles relation to each other 15:10:55 definition of terms - EXPAND TERM GLOSSARY IN SECTION 1.1 15:10:55 match existing processors to profiles 15:10:55 integrate Murray rationale / Jim to suggest a short rationale for our picking each of 15:10:55 CMSMCQ - Conformance 15:10:55 address/tracking Vojtech comments 15:10:57 TRACKING CMSMCQ Comments 15:11:10 Jim: Those are my tasks. I'll add XInclude in there. 15:11:54 Jim: There are other things that depend on my task getting done. There are a few other of cmsmcq's comments that are still pending my tasks. 15:12:00 Jim: I should be done by tomorrow. 15:12:45 Norm: Thanks, Jim. If you can get it done tomorrow we can try to make progress in email next week. 15:12:49 Paul: I already sent in some comments. 15:13:52 -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xml-processing-model-wg/2011Nov/0012.html 15:15:22 Norm suggests that we let the editor tackle them. 15:15:33 Paul: Well, I think we should talk about swapping the sections. 15:16:17 Norm: I'm reluctant to swap them. 15:16:43 Paul: Ok, then just adding an explanatory sentence at the top of section 2 pointing out that those terms are defined in section 3. I'm happy to leave that to the editor. 15:16:47 +1 15:17:33 Norm: So, Jim, are you happy to attempt to address these? 15:17:36 Jim: Yes, I'm fine. 15:18:31 Jim: Vojtech, you mentioned a couple of things last time. Have they been addressed? 15:18:39 Vojtech: Let me see... 15:19:11 ...Yes, I think so. 15:19:23 Jim: And in section 4.2.2 and 4.2.3, are those better too? 15:20:11 Some discussion of those comments especially wrt unexpanded entity references. 15:21:14 Vojtech: Let me take a look at my comments and get back to you. 15:22:28 Alex: I'm looking at Henry's note about what he changed; at the f2f, I think we had issues with the sections we're discussing. 15:22:45 ...It sounds like Henry thinks he's done. But yet, this section has the same reference problem. 15:24:28 The group looks through f2f minutes for discussion and actions. 15:25:09 Alex: Yes, there they are in the minutes of 31 October. 15:25:12 ...But there's no action. 15:27:38 Regarding the Unexpanded Entiry Reference prose in 4.2.2, I was wondering at the f2f whether that item should be there at all. But I think that Henry's new prose is clear enough and I was just confused. 15:28:31 Some discussion of the term "EII" which clearly needs to be expanded. 15:28:42 Alex: I guess I need to review it again and see if I'm satisfied. 15:29:19 Jim: So should I add EII to the glosasry? 15:29:24 s/glosas/glossa/ 15:29:37 Norm: No, I think you should expand EII to Element Information Item 15:29:51 Alex: What about numbering them or labeling them somehow and then just referring to the label? 15:30:45 Norm: I'm worried that labeling will make it more confusing, but I'm happy to leave it to the editor to try to expand EII in a way that's clear. 15:38:11 Some discussion of how to improve section 4.2. 15:38:17 Alex: Should I try to hash it out with Henry? 15:39:15 Norm: That seems reasonable. Jim's got a lot of things on his plate so I think if he did this last that would give you time. 15:39:17 Jim: Yes. 15:39:22 Alex: Ok, I'll see what I can do. 15:40:43 Norm: Why don't we say this: Jim will work on his items, Alex you try to close the loop with Henry and come up with a revision, and if you can't reach Henry today or tomorrow, Jim just makes the minimal fix of expanding EII. 15:41:10 ...If we got agreement on everything except 4.2, I think that'd be progress. 15:41:21 Jim: These are related to the issues you raised, right Vojtech? 15:41:27 Vojtech: Well, somewhat. In a different way. 15:42:18 Vojtech: I've gotten used to this section now, so maybe with the picture it could be improved. 15:42:24 Jim: Right, I have a new draft of the picture. 15:43:04 Regrets: Mohamed, Henry, Cornelia 15:44:41 Norm: I have one other comment. I hate the word "outcomes" in 1.1 Background. 15:45:09 I think "data models" is much clearer there. 15:45:27 Paul: But we wanted to avoid the word data model. 15:45:41 General agreement. 15:45:50 Paul: The agreeement at the f2f was that we'd take itout. 15:45:57 Norm caves. "Nevermind then" 15:47:00 Norm: Any other comments about the draft today? 15:47:15 Norm: OK. I think it's coming together quite well. 15:47:38 Topic: Use cases/requirements/charter for V.next 15:48:05 Norm: I've heard nothing from Liam about the charter. I don't think there's been much other discussion. 15:48:14 ...Is there something that folks would like to talk about? 15:48:55 Alex: Shouldn't we try to make some progress? 15:49:05 Norm: Yes, do you have a specific suggestion? 15:49:13 Alex: Henry and I were talking about the binding work that I'm doing. 15:49:48 Norm: Yes, I encourage you to write that up! 15:49:58 Jim: I've been doing some work with XProc to manage Hadoop jobs. I could write that up. 15:50:05 Alex: Do we want to engage the community on xproc-dev? 15:50:11 ...We're going to get a bunch of stuff. 15:51:21 Jim: I think we're busy on the processing models document; we'll make more progress after, I think. I'm thinking of doing an XProc training day before XML Prague. 15:51:31 Alex: We also need to do some marketing. 15:52:00 Jim: Well, marketing and community building. I think we need to start something grassroots. That's why I was thinking the training thing would be a good way to generate some reusable training materials. 15:52:18 ...Having the ability to download standard pipelines would be great. 15:52:46 ...I can try to get some articles written. 15:53:00 ...Someone from Rackspace added XML Calabash to the Maven repository. 15:53:55 Norm: With my chair's hat on, I find it hard to formulate next steps. Partly I think we just need to get the processing model document finished. 15:54:31 Alex: Yes, let's get that done. And keep updating the wiki. 15:54:44 Norm: Any parting comments, we're just about out of time. 15:55:05 Jim: I think there's been a tiny little uptick in usage. That's heartening. 15:55:19 Topic: Any other business? 15:55:45 Vojtech: We're also seeing more commercial interest. 15:56:10 None heard. 15:56:31 Adjourned. 15:56:37 -Vojtech 15:56:42 -PGrosso 15:56:42 rrsagent, draft minutes 15:56:42 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/12/01-xproc-minutes.html Norm 15:56:44 -Alex_Milows 15:56:46 -Norm 15:56:48 -jfuller 15:56:50 XML_PMWG()10:00AM has ended 15:56:56 Attendees were PGrosso, [IPcaller], Norm, jfuller, Vojtech, Alex_Milows 15:57:10 PGrosso has left #xproc 17:28:34 Zakim has left #xproc 18:06:56 ht has joined #xproc