18:00:41 RRSAgent has joined #tagmem 18:00:41 logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/12/01-tagmem-irc 18:00:43 RRSAgent, make logs public 18:00:45 Zakim, this will be TAG 18:00:45 ok, trackbot, I see TAG_Weekly()1:00PM already started 18:00:45 zakim, unmute me 18:00:46 Meeting: Technical Architecture Group Teleconference 18:00:46 DKA should no longer be muted 18:00:46 Date: 01 December 2011 18:00:52 scribenick: jar 18:00:59 scribe: Jonathan Rees 18:01:01 +[IPcaller] 18:01:20 +TimBL 18:01:21 +Ashok_Malhotra 18:01:22 topic: Convene 18:01:29 chair: Noah Mendelsohn 18:03:02 Note: incorrect regrets in agenda. Jonathan and Larry are both here 18:03:18 Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose TimBL 18:03:39 Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose JeniT 18:03:45 Zakim, never pick me 18:03:45 I don't understand 'never pick me', timbl_ 18:04:10 Zakim, you will, you will. 18:04:10 I don't understand 'you will, you will', timbl_ 18:04:13 +plinss 18:04:21 Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-tag/2011Nov/0118.html 18:04:47 regrets for 8 Dec: JAR and Henry doing workshop, DKA unavailable 18:04:49 +Noah_Mendelsohn 18:04:58 Yves to scribe next week's meeting 18:05:32 DKA: not here next week, will be following week 18:05:41 regret: JAR for Dec 15 (at yet another workshop) 18:06:56 NoahM has joined #tagmem 18:06:56 noah has joined #tagmem 18:06:56 ht has joined #tagmem 18:06:56 RESOLUTION: Minutes of 17 Nov are approved http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2011/11/17-minutes 18:07:09 zakim, who is here? 18:07:09 On the phone I see Masinter, Jonathan_Rees, DKA, Yves, JeniT, TimBL, Ashok_Malhotra, plinss, Noah_Mendelsohn 18:07:13 On IRC I see ht, noah, NoahM, RRSAgent, JeniT, Larry, timbl_, Ashok, Zakim, DKA, jar, plinss, trackbot, Yves 18:07:21 Sorry I'm late, just dialing in 18:07:44 noah: Any word on nominees? Deadline was yesterday 18:07:53 zakim, code? 18:07:53 the conference code is 0824 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), ht 18:07:59 topic: Administrative items 18:08:05 ashok: No word yet. 18:08:27 +??P44 18:08:46 (agenda review) 18:10:00 topic: Web Applications: Client-side state 18:10:53 ashok: Have not heard back re comments 18:11:44 ashok: Comments were fairly small. Bjoern Hoehrmann and Jonathan Rees 18:12:32 … JAR asked for definitions of acronyms, and 2 other complaints, all addressed. 18:13:10 Proposed RESOLUTION: The TAG approves publication of http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/doc/IdentifyingApplicationState-20111130 as a TAG Finding 18:13:22 +1 18:13:28 +1 18:13:28 +1 18:13:30 +1 18:13:31 +1 18:13:32 +1 18:13:37 RESOLUTION: The TAG approves publication of http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/doc/IdentifyingApplicationState-20111130 as a TAG Finding 18:14:30 noah: Just some editorial stuff left 18:15:16 ACTION: Ashok, with help from Noah to publish http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/doc/IdentifyingApplicationState-20111130 as a TAG Finding 18:15:16 Sorry, couldn't find user - Ashok, 18:15:23 ACTION: Ashok with help from Noah to publish http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/doc/IdentifyingApplicationState-20111130 as a TAG Finding 18:15:24 Created ACTION-634 - With help from Noah to publish http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/doc/IdentifyingApplicationState-20111130 as a TAG Finding [on Ashok Malhotra - due 2011-12-08]. 18:15:58 ACTION-597? 18:15:58 ACTION-597 -- Ashok Malhotra to publish a final draft for public review of the finding on Application State -- due 2011-12-01 -- OPEN 18:15:58 http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/597 18:16:06 close ACTION-597 18:16:06 ACTION-597 Publish a final draft for public review of the finding on Application State closed 18:16:17 ACTION-598? 18:16:17 ACTION-598 -- Yves Lafon to publish as a note what had been the FPWD (Raman's draft) on client side state -- due 2012-01-15 -- OPEN 18:16:17 http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/598 18:18:29 (discussion of closing out the rec track document first started by Raman) 18:18:45 (mooted by the new finding) 18:21:30 noah: Yves please continue with 598 when he sees fit 18:21:51 … Ashok please update the product page 18:22:54 topic: F2F Planning 18:23:00 We'll go through list of TAG products: http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/products/ 18:23:06 s/Ashok please/Yves please/ 18:24:11 noah: Fragid work - goal of a completed finding in December. Maybe we changed the plan in Edinburgh 18:24:58 ht: Won't get to updating product page until Jan [or so] 18:25:17 s/updating product page/any work/ 18:25:28 noah: Note that HT says he believes producing a draft is something he and Peter will do, but it won't be ready for Jan F2F 18:26:07 ACTION: Henry to update product page for Frag IDS and Mime types, to include realistic goals and dates 18:26:08 Created ACTION-635 - Update product page for Frag IDS and Mime types, to include realistic goals and dates [on Henry Thompson - due 2011-12-08]. 18:26:49 noah: So probably not for F2F discussion, but we'll see 18:26:55 Tentative conclusion, don't discuss this at F2F, unless Henry or Peter proposes a particular issue 18:27:21 URI Definition Discovery 18:27:25 (going through list of product pages) 18:27:25 http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/products/defininguris.html 18:28:04 JAR: Still on track for preparing change proposals, etc. by end of year. So we'll have something read 18:28:32 noah: JAR please update product page 18:29:02 MIME architecture for the Web 18:29:29 31 December 2011: Final TAG Report on MIME architecture, most likely in the form of a TAG Finding 18:30:33 larry: The MIME work has separated into 2 pieces. use of MIME as a registry (extension param), feeding into action item related to registries in general. And what should the MIME [process] actually say 18:30:42 ACTION-531? 18:30:42 ACTION-531 -- Larry Masinter to draft document on architectural good practice relating to registries -- due 2011-07-30 -- OPEN 18:30:42 http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/531 18:30:58 We should add this action to the product page 18:31:22 … action 531. That's a key part of how we MIME. I'm closer now to having a draft ready for the F2F. 18:31:45 noah: We're going for a finding - that's what we're talking about yes? 18:32:11 … i.e. what you're working on is the doc that the product page talks about? 18:32:33 larry: will have drafts of both of those. 18:33:09 We will have things to discuss in January. 18:33:11 noah: Larry, can you this week propose product page updates, that would make the answers to my questions obvious? 18:33:16 ACTION: Larry to update product page for Mime and the Web 18:33:17 Created ACTION-636 - Update product page for Mime and the Web [on Larry Masinter - due 2011-12-08]. 18:34:18 http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/products/#active 18:35:28 API Minimization 18:35:38 DKA: Hoping to do some work, and hand it off 18:35:41 noah: Dan, what will become of API minimization? 18:36:05 DKA: possibly newly elected members who replace me? 18:38:59 (discussion of TAG election and appointments) 18:39:45 DKA: A slot for minmization is likely a good thing 18:40:34 noah: Updating arch pages? 18:41:02 ACTION-609? 18:41:02 ACTION-609 -- Daniel Appelquist to draft initial cut at http://www.w3.org/standards/webarch/identifiers -- due 2011-10-25 -- OPEN 18:41:02 http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/609 18:41:06 ACTION-610? 18:41:06 ACTION-610 -- Jeni Tennison to draft initial cut at http://www.w3.org/standards/webarch/metaformats -- due 2011-11-29 -- OPEN 18:41:06 http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/610 18:41:13 ACTION-611? 18:41:13 ACTION-611 -- Larry Masinter to draft initial cut at http://www.w3.org/standards/webarch/protocols -- due 2011-11-15 -- OPEN 18:41:13 http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/611 18:42:26 I will do something for January 18:42:32 Thank you! 18:42:49 NM: Question is, can we get something substantial to discuss in January 18:43:18 timbl_ has joined #tagmem 18:43:47 larry: I'll get together with Dan, and exchange email with Jeni 18:44:01 NM: OK, so I'll plan to schedule a slot in January, form of input TBD 18:44:34 No project page, but we do have: http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/products/PrivacyFriendlyWeb.html 18:47:03 dka: Privacy project is not scoped 18:48:15 Privacy is a maybe for F2F, Dan and Ashok to advise 18:48:25 Persistence of Identifiers 18:48:33 NM: Things to discuss 18:48:43 HT: Think so, at least report from workshop 18:48:58 ht: There will be a workshop report at least, which will include proposals 18:49:07 ACTION-632? 18:49:07 ACTION-632 -- Ashok Malhotra to frame issues around client-side storage work Due 2011-12-06 -- due 2011-12-06 -- OPEN 18:49:07 http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/632 18:49:32 ACTION-523 18:49:34 ACTION-523? 18:49:34 ACTION-523 -- Ashok Malhotra to (with help from Noah) build good product page for client storage finding, identifying top questions to be answered on client side storage -- due 2011-12-20 -- OPEN 18:49:34 http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/523 18:49:40 ashok: I need to talk to Art Barstow about this (storage) - may connect us with some help 18:50:04 … then decide how to go forward. Time at F2F for brief update would be good 18:50:46 noah: This seems ready to gel. There was stuff to do but didn't have time 18:51:34 ashok: I expect to have a couple of messages worked out 18:51:50 noah: Relationship between caching and local storage, what happens to URIs, etc 18:52:07 noah: Microdata? 18:52:36 jeni: By then there will be a document from the TF. F2F would be nice so we can go over it 18:53:05 HTML.next 18:53:33 +1 to a html.next brainstorm 18:53:38 +1 18:54:17 noah: I was hoping to get background done in Dec 18:54:46 ACTION: Noah to ask PLH to join us in Dec. to bring us up to speed on HTML.next, and also join in F2F discussion 18:55:01 we shouldn't discuss HTML.next without at least a briefing of current discussions and ideas, so that the TAG isn't working independently of the rest of the community on this topic. 18:55:45 yves: I am working on http ssl hybi, stuff like that. We should be able to discuss that 18:55:47 ACTION-618? 18:56:02 With help from Larry, Noah, and Jeni to prepare analysis on development around HTTP, like spdy, ssl use, websocket... 18:56:15 Tracker? 18:56:24 YL: Will have progress on ACTION-618 soon, should discuss at F2F. 18:56:25 trackbot? 18:57:08 noah: The schedule is starting to look too full 18:57:23 topic: Polyglot last call 18:57:24 s/too full/borderline too full/ 18:57:39 ACTION-560? 18:57:51 Henry Thompson - Review HTML polyglot last call Due 2011-06-06 - Due: 2011-11-30 - PENDING REVIEW 18:58:19 ht: There was a response to my email saying you (HT) didn't read the spec… apparently it says that prefixes aren't wrong 18:58:37 timbl: Does this make the issue bigger? 18:59:09 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-tag/2011Nov/0120.html 18:59:15 trackbot has joined #tagmem 19:00:14 Reopening ACTION-560 19:00:21 ht: the spec says the prefixes aren't wrong, but doesn't say they're right [Scribe is not getting this right apparently - minutes editor, please fix this per what the email actually says] 19:00:48 ACTION-560? 19:00:53 s/it says that prefixes aren't wrong/the spec only says that prefixes are allowed, but doesn't offer any support for them/ 19:01:24 topic: Security 19:01:31 ACTION-607? 19:01:40 ACTION-607: on - Larry Masinter - Find an appropriate way to make available http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2011/02/security-web.html to the Web App Sec working group - Due: 2011-09-22 - PENDING REVIEW 19:01:54 "I went to the first F2F of the Web Application Security working group and asked them to accept the document as input, and to consider maintaining a roadmap of web application security issues, even those that they don't take up directly...I believe they agreed to take it on." 19:02:31 larry: Haven't confirmed. 19:02:52 larry: I think we can move on 19:03:29 ACTION-560 -- Henry Thompson to review HTML polyglot last call Due 2011-06-06 -- due 2011-12-06 -- OPEN 19:03:31 http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/560 19:03:35 ACTION-607 -- Larry Masinter to find an appropriate way to make available http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2011/02/security-web.html to the Web App Sec working group -- due 2011-09-22 -- PENDINGREVIEW 19:03:36 www.w3.org/2011/webappsec/ 19:03:38 http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/607 19:03:42 ACTION-607 Find an appropriate way to make available http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2011/02/security-web.html to the Web App Sec working group notes added 19:04:10 larry: it's listed as an input document on their home page. 19:04:23 close ACTION-607 19:04:23 ACTION-607 Find an appropriate way to make available http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2011/02/security-web.html to the Web App Sec working group closed 19:04:30 ACTION-607? 19:04:30 ACTION-607 -- Larry Masinter to find an appropriate way to make available http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2011/02/security-web.html to the Web App Sec working group -- due 2011-09-22 -- CLOSED 19:04:30 http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/607 19:04:49 topic: Hyperlinks and copyright 19:04:56 http://www.w3.org/2011/webappsec/ lists it as an "Input Document" 19:05:04 Proposal form Jeni for moving forward: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/tag/2011Nov/0045.html 19:05:42 jeni: Dan and I met last week re next steps before the F2F. 19:06:15 … Asked our experts for feedback; we'll meet in a week or two to go over it 19:06:41 q+ 19:06:45 … We'd like to do a long document as rec, supplemented with shorter, more opinionated pieces that highlight particular issues 19:07:33 dka: This approach was in reaction to Rigo's TPAC comments 19:07:59 q- 19:08:13 q- 19:08:17 … but we really felt a doc with broad scope would be a good thing, and a necessary prerequisite for focussed pieces 19:09:56 dka: Haven't had much luck getting concrete promises from our experts... 19:10:23 ack next 19:10:33 noah: Is it just Rigo, or do others feel as he does?... 19:11:08 F2F discussion TBD 19:11:30 ask for public feedback? 19:11:57 ask AC members? if we're not getting feedback we need from a community, don't we have other ways of getting that, than private pleading? 19:12:13 noah: I'll look for a F2F proposal for this topic in a couple of weeks 19:12:45 ashok: I'm very positive on the short pieces idea, have Jeni & Dan thought about what those would be? 19:13:23 https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/tag/2011Nov/0045.html 19:14:57 +1 to working on public-facing messages at f2f 19:15:03 ashok: A goal like, to have 4 pithy messages, would be good 19:15:08 -ht 19:16:05 ACTION-541? 19:16:05 ACTION-541 -- Jeni Tennison to helped by DKA to produce a first draft of terminology about (deep-)linking etc. -- due 2011-11-29 -- OPEN 19:16:05 http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/541 19:16:48 ACTION-541 Due 2011-12-20 19:16:48 ACTION-541 Helped by DKA to produce a first draft of terminology about (deep-)linking etc. due date now 2011-12-20 19:18:10 topic: Administrative 19:20:07 ACTION-576? 19:20:07 ACTION-576 -- Jonathan Rees to with help from Henry to figure out impact of RDFa core on generic fragids story, especially in 3023bis -- due 2011-10-11 -- PENDINGREVIEW 19:20:07 http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/576 19:20:17 topic: Pending review items 19:20:22 ACTION-509? 19:20:22 ACTION-509 -- Jonathan Rees to communicate with RDFa WG regarding documenting the fragid / media type issue -- due 2011-11-29 -- OPEN 19:20:22 http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/509 19:20:51 NM: So, 509 and 576 are substantially the same? 19:21:07 JAR: We can close 576, but there's more to be done on 509 19:21:37 close ACTION-576 19:21:37 ACTION-576 With help from Henry to figure out impact of RDFa core on generic fragids story, especially in 3023bis closed 19:22:46 jeni: Volunteer to take on 509. 19:22:53 Assigning ACTION-509 to Jeni and closing ACTION-576 19:22:56 close ACTION-576 19:22:56 ACTION-576 With help from Henry to figure out impact of RDFa core on generic fragids story, especially in 3023bis closed 19:23:52 ACTION-509? 19:23:52 ACTION-509 -- Jeni Tennison to communicate with RDFa WG regarding documenting the fragid / media type issue -- due 2011-12-13 -- OPEN 19:23:52 http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/509 19:24:11 ACTION-623? 19:24:11 ACTION-623 -- Larry Masinter to pull together plans for IETF<-> TAG coordination at TPAC -- due 2011-11-03 -- PENDINGREVIEW 19:24:11 http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/623 19:24:45 close ACTION-623 19:24:46 ACTION-623 Pull together plans for IETF<-> TAG coordination at TPAC closed 19:26:12 note there is now an IETF Application Area Directorate (of which Henry and I are members). (The Directorate was the review board) 19:27:52 http://trac.tools.ietf.org/area/app/trac/wiki/ApplicationsAreaDirectorate 19:32:13 ACTION: Yves to help Noah figure out best ways, if at all, for TAG to participate in IETF paris Due: 2011-12-20 19:32:13 Created ACTION-638 - Help Noah figure out best ways, if at all, for TAG to participate in IETF paris Due: 2011-12-20 [on Yves Lafon - due 2011-12-08]. 19:32:33 http://www.ietf.org/meeting/cutoff-dates-2012.html#IETF83 19:32:36 ADJOURNED 19:32:37 -Ashok_Malhotra 19:32:39 -DKA 19:32:40 -Noah_Mendelsohn 19:32:41 -Yves 19:32:43 -JeniT 19:32:43 -Masinter 19:32:45 -plinss 19:32:45 rrsagent, make logs public 19:32:47 -TimBL 19:32:49 rrsagent, pointer 19:32:49 See http://www.w3.org/2011/12/01-tagmem-irc#T19-32-49 19:32:57 Tank you everyone esp Noah for chairing 19:33:08 s/T/Th/ 19:33:16 Thank you Tim! 19:37:47 disconnecting the lone participant, Jonathan_Rees, in TAG_Weekly()1:00PM 19:37:51 TAG_Weekly()1:00PM has ended 19:37:53 Attendees were Masinter, Jonathan_Rees, DKA, Yves, JeniT, TimBL, Ashok_Malhotra, plinss, Noah_Mendelsohn, ht 20:09:14 noahtest has joined #tagmem 21:24:31 jar has joined #tagmem 21:29:54 Zakim has left #tagmem 21:49:47 The TAG election will probably run til Ja 9. Cf TAG f2f Jan 4-6