IRC log of tagmem on 2011-12-01

Timestamps are in UTC.

18:00:41 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #tagmem
18:00:41 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/12/01-tagmem-irc
18:00:43 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs public
18:00:45 [trackbot]
Zakim, this will be TAG
18:00:45 [Zakim]
ok, trackbot, I see TAG_Weekly()1:00PM already started
18:00:45 [DKA]
zakim, unmute me
18:00:46 [trackbot]
Meeting: Technical Architecture Group Teleconference
18:00:46 [Zakim]
DKA should no longer be muted
18:00:46 [trackbot]
Date: 01 December 2011
18:00:52 [jar]
scribenick: jar
18:00:59 [jar]
scribe: Jonathan Rees
18:01:01 [Zakim]
+[IPcaller]
18:01:20 [Zakim]
+TimBL
18:01:21 [Zakim]
+Ashok_Malhotra
18:01:22 [jar]
topic: Convene
18:01:29 [jar]
chair: Noah Mendelsohn
18:03:02 [jar]
Note: incorrect regrets in agenda. Jonathan and Larry are both here
18:03:18 [Zakim]
Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose TimBL
18:03:39 [Zakim]
Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose JeniT
18:03:45 [timbl_]
Zakim, never pick me
18:03:45 [Zakim]
I don't understand 'never pick me', timbl_
18:04:10 [timbl_]
Zakim, you will, you will.
18:04:10 [Zakim]
I don't understand 'you will, you will', timbl_
18:04:13 [Zakim]
+plinss
18:04:21 [Yves]
Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-tag/2011Nov/0118.html
18:04:47 [jar]
regrets for 8 Dec: JAR and Henry doing workshop, DKA unavailable
18:04:49 [Zakim]
+Noah_Mendelsohn
18:04:58 [Yves]
Yves to scribe next week's meeting
18:05:32 [JeniT]
DKA: not here next week, will be following week
18:05:41 [jar]
regret: JAR for Dec 15 (at yet another workshop)
18:06:56 [NoahM]
NoahM has joined #tagmem
18:06:56 [noah]
noah has joined #tagmem
18:06:56 [ht]
ht has joined #tagmem
18:06:56 [jar]
RESOLUTION: Minutes of 17 Nov are approved http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2011/11/17-minutes
18:07:09 [noah]
zakim, who is here?
18:07:09 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Masinter, Jonathan_Rees, DKA, Yves, JeniT, TimBL, Ashok_Malhotra, plinss, Noah_Mendelsohn
18:07:13 [Zakim]
On IRC I see ht, noah, NoahM, RRSAgent, JeniT, Larry, timbl_, Ashok, Zakim, DKA, jar, plinss, trackbot, Yves
18:07:21 [ht]
Sorry I'm late, just dialing in
18:07:44 [jar]
noah: Any word on nominees? Deadline was yesterday
18:07:53 [ht]
zakim, code?
18:07:53 [Zakim]
the conference code is 0824 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), ht
18:07:59 [jar]
topic: Administrative items
18:08:05 [jar]
ashok: No word yet.
18:08:27 [Zakim]
+??P44
18:08:46 [jar]
(agenda review)
18:10:00 [jar]
topic: Web Applications: Client-side state
18:10:53 [jar]
ashok: Have not heard back re comments
18:11:44 [jar]
ashok: Comments were fairly small. Bjoern Hoehrmann and Jonathan Rees
18:12:32 [jar]
… JAR asked for definitions of acronyms, and 2 other complaints, all addressed.
18:13:10 [NoahM]
Proposed RESOLUTION: The TAG approves publication of http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/doc/IdentifyingApplicationState-20111130 as a TAG Finding
18:13:22 [DKA]
+1
18:13:28 [Yves]
+1
18:13:28 [JeniT]
+1
18:13:30 [timbl_]
+1
18:13:31 [jar]
+1
18:13:32 [Larry]
+1
18:13:37 [NoahM]
RESOLUTION: The TAG approves publication of http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/doc/IdentifyingApplicationState-20111130 as a TAG Finding
18:14:30 [jar]
noah: Just some editorial stuff left
18:15:16 [NoahM]
ACTION: Ashok, with help from Noah to publish http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/doc/IdentifyingApplicationState-20111130 as a TAG Finding
18:15:16 [trackbot]
Sorry, couldn't find user - Ashok,
18:15:23 [NoahM]
ACTION: Ashok with help from Noah to publish http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/doc/IdentifyingApplicationState-20111130 as a TAG Finding
18:15:24 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-634 - With help from Noah to publish http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/doc/IdentifyingApplicationState-20111130 as a TAG Finding [on Ashok Malhotra - due 2011-12-08].
18:15:58 [NoahM]
ACTION-597?
18:15:58 [trackbot]
ACTION-597 -- Ashok Malhotra to publish a final draft for public review of the finding on Application State -- due 2011-12-01 -- OPEN
18:15:58 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/597
18:16:06 [NoahM]
close ACTION-597
18:16:06 [trackbot]
ACTION-597 Publish a final draft for public review of the finding on Application State closed
18:16:17 [NoahM]
ACTION-598?
18:16:17 [trackbot]
ACTION-598 -- Yves Lafon to publish as a note what had been the FPWD (Raman's draft) on client side state -- due 2012-01-15 -- OPEN
18:16:17 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/598
18:18:29 [jar]
(discussion of closing out the rec track document first started by Raman)
18:18:45 [jar]
(mooted by the new finding)
18:21:30 [jar]
noah: Yves please continue with 598 when he sees fit
18:21:51 [jar]
… Ashok please update the product page
18:22:54 [jar]
topic: F2F Planning
18:23:00 [NoahM]
We'll go through list of TAG products: http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/products/
18:23:06 [jar]
s/Ashok please/Yves please/
18:24:11 [jar]
noah: Fragid work - goal of a completed finding in December. Maybe we changed the plan in Edinburgh
18:24:58 [jar]
ht: Won't get to updating product page until Jan [or so]
18:25:17 [ht]
s/updating product page/any work/
18:25:28 [jar]
noah: Note that HT says he believes producing a draft is something he and Peter will do, but it won't be ready for Jan F2F
18:26:07 [NoahM]
ACTION: Henry to update product page for Frag IDS and Mime types, to include realistic goals and dates
18:26:08 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-635 - Update product page for Frag IDS and Mime types, to include realistic goals and dates [on Henry Thompson - due 2011-12-08].
18:26:49 [jar]
noah: So probably not for F2F discussion, but we'll see
18:26:55 [NoahM]
Tentative conclusion, don't discuss this at F2F, unless Henry or Peter proposes a particular issue
18:27:21 [NoahM]
URI Definition Discovery
18:27:25 [jar]
(going through list of product pages)
18:27:25 [NoahM]
http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/products/defininguris.html
18:28:04 [NoahM]
JAR: Still on track for preparing change proposals, etc. by end of year. So we'll have something read
18:28:32 [jar]
noah: JAR please update product page
18:29:02 [NoahM]
MIME architecture for the Web
18:29:29 [NoahM]
31 December 2011: Final TAG Report on MIME architecture, most likely in the form of a TAG Finding
18:30:33 [jar]
larry: The MIME work has separated into 2 pieces. use of MIME as a registry (extension param), feeding into action item related to registries in general. And what should the MIME [process] actually say
18:30:42 [NoahM]
ACTION-531?
18:30:42 [trackbot]
ACTION-531 -- Larry Masinter to draft document on architectural good practice relating to registries -- due 2011-07-30 -- OPEN
18:30:42 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/531
18:30:58 [NoahM]
We should add this action to the product page
18:31:22 [jar]
… action 531. That's a key part of how we MIME. I'm closer now to having a draft ready for the F2F.
18:31:45 [jar]
noah: We're going for a finding - that's what we're talking about yes?
18:32:11 [jar]
… i.e. what you're working on is the doc that the product page talks about?
18:32:33 [jar]
larry: will have drafts of both of those.
18:33:09 [NoahM]
We will have things to discuss in January.
18:33:11 [jar]
noah: Larry, can you this week propose product page updates, that would make the answers to my questions obvious?
18:33:16 [NoahM]
ACTION: Larry to update product page for Mime and the Web
18:33:17 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-636 - Update product page for Mime and the Web [on Larry Masinter - due 2011-12-08].
18:34:18 [NoahM]
http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/products/#active
18:35:28 [NoahM]
API Minimization
18:35:38 [NoahM]
DKA: Hoping to do some work, and hand it off
18:35:41 [jar]
noah: Dan, what will become of API minimization?
18:36:05 [NoahM]
DKA: possibly newly elected members who replace me?
18:38:59 [jar]
(discussion of TAG election and appointments)
18:39:45 [NoahM]
DKA: A slot for minmization is likely a good thing
18:40:34 [jar]
noah: Updating arch pages?
18:41:02 [NoahM]
ACTION-609?
18:41:02 [trackbot]
ACTION-609 -- Daniel Appelquist to draft initial cut at http://www.w3.org/standards/webarch/identifiers -- due 2011-10-25 -- OPEN
18:41:02 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/609
18:41:06 [NoahM]
ACTION-610?
18:41:06 [trackbot]
ACTION-610 -- Jeni Tennison to draft initial cut at http://www.w3.org/standards/webarch/metaformats -- due 2011-11-29 -- OPEN
18:41:06 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/610
18:41:13 [NoahM]
ACTION-611?
18:41:13 [trackbot]
ACTION-611 -- Larry Masinter to draft initial cut at http://www.w3.org/standards/webarch/protocols -- due 2011-11-15 -- OPEN
18:41:13 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/611
18:42:26 [JeniT]
I will do something for January
18:42:32 [NoahM]
Thank you!
18:42:49 [NoahM]
NM: Question is, can we get something substantial to discuss in January
18:43:18 [timbl_]
timbl_ has joined #tagmem
18:43:47 [jar]
larry: I'll get together with Dan, and exchange email with Jeni
18:44:01 [NoahM]
NM: OK, so I'll plan to schedule a slot in January, form of input TBD
18:44:34 [NoahM]
No project page, but we do have: http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/products/PrivacyFriendlyWeb.html
18:47:03 [jar]
dka: Privacy project is not scoped
18:48:15 [NoahM]
Privacy is a maybe for F2F, Dan and Ashok to advise
18:48:25 [NoahM]
Persistence of Identifiers
18:48:33 [NoahM]
NM: Things to discuss
18:48:43 [NoahM]
HT: Think so, at least report from workshop
18:48:58 [jar]
ht: There will be a workshop report at least, which will include proposals
18:49:07 [NoahM]
ACTION-632?
18:49:07 [trackbot]
ACTION-632 -- Ashok Malhotra to frame issues around client-side storage work Due 2011-12-06 -- due 2011-12-06 -- OPEN
18:49:07 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/632
18:49:32 [NoahM]
ACTION-523
18:49:34 [NoahM]
ACTION-523?
18:49:34 [trackbot]
ACTION-523 -- Ashok Malhotra to (with help from Noah) build good product page for client storage finding, identifying top questions to be answered on client side storage -- due 2011-12-20 -- OPEN
18:49:34 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/523
18:49:40 [jar]
ashok: I need to talk to Art Barstow about this (storage) - may connect us with some help
18:50:04 [jar]
… then decide how to go forward. Time at F2F for brief update would be good
18:50:46 [jar]
noah: This seems ready to gel. There was stuff to do but didn't have time
18:51:34 [jar]
ashok: I expect to have a couple of messages worked out
18:51:50 [jar]
noah: Relationship between caching and local storage, what happens to URIs, etc
18:52:07 [jar]
noah: Microdata?
18:52:36 [jar]
jeni: By then there will be a document from the TF. F2F would be nice so we can go over it
18:53:05 [NoahM]
HTML.next
18:53:33 [DKA]
+1 to a html.next brainstorm
18:53:38 [plinss]
+1
18:54:17 [jar]
noah: I was hoping to get background done in Dec
18:54:46 [NoahM]
ACTION: Noah to ask PLH to join us in Dec. to bring us up to speed on HTML.next, and also join in F2F discussion
18:55:01 [Larry]
we shouldn't discuss HTML.next without at least a briefing of current discussions and ideas, so that the TAG isn't working independently of the rest of the community on this topic.
18:55:45 [jar]
yves: I am working on http ssl hybi, stuff like that. We should be able to discuss that
18:55:47 [NoahM]
ACTION-618?
18:56:02 [NoahM]
With help from Larry, Noah, and Jeni to prepare analysis on development around HTTP, like spdy, ssl use, websocket...
18:56:15 [timbl_]
Tracker?
18:56:24 [NoahM]
YL: Will have progress on ACTION-618 soon, should discuss at F2F.
18:56:25 [timbl_]
trackbot?
18:57:08 [jar]
noah: The schedule is starting to look too full
18:57:23 [jar]
topic: Polyglot last call
18:57:24 [NoahM]
s/too full/borderline too full/
18:57:39 [NoahM]
ACTION-560?
18:57:51 [NoahM]
Henry Thompson - Review HTML polyglot last call Due 2011-06-06 - Due: 2011-11-30 - PENDING REVIEW
18:58:19 [jar]
ht: There was a response to my email saying you (HT) didn't read the spec… apparently it says that prefixes aren't wrong
18:58:37 [jar]
timbl: Does this make the issue bigger?
18:59:09 [jar]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-tag/2011Nov/0120.html
18:59:15 [trackbot]
trackbot has joined #tagmem
19:00:14 [NoahM]
Reopening ACTION-560
19:00:21 [jar]
ht: the spec says the prefixes aren't wrong, but doesn't say they're right [Scribe is not getting this right apparently - minutes editor, please fix this per what the email actually says]
19:00:48 [NoahM]
ACTION-560?
19:00:53 [ht]
s/it says that prefixes aren't wrong/the spec only says that prefixes are allowed, but doesn't offer any support for them/
19:01:24 [jar]
topic: Security
19:01:31 [NoahM]
ACTION-607?
19:01:40 [NoahM]
ACTION-607: on - Larry Masinter - Find an appropriate way to make available http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2011/02/security-web.html to the Web App Sec working group - Due: 2011-09-22 - PENDING REVIEW
19:01:54 [NoahM]
"I went to the first F2F of the Web Application Security working group and asked them to accept the document as input, and to consider maintaining a roadmap of web application security issues, even those that they don't take up directly...I believe they agreed to take it on."
19:02:31 [jar]
larry: Haven't confirmed.
19:02:52 [jar]
larry: I think we can move on
19:03:29 [trackbot]
ACTION-560 -- Henry Thompson to review HTML polyglot last call Due 2011-06-06 -- due 2011-12-06 -- OPEN
19:03:31 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/560
19:03:35 [trackbot]
ACTION-607 -- Larry Masinter to find an appropriate way to make available http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2011/02/security-web.html to the Web App Sec working group -- due 2011-09-22 -- PENDINGREVIEW
19:03:36 [Larry]
www.w3.org/2011/webappsec/
19:03:38 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/607
19:03:42 [trackbot]
ACTION-607 Find an appropriate way to make available http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2011/02/security-web.html to the Web App Sec working group notes added
19:04:10 [jar]
larry: it's listed as an input document on their home page.
19:04:23 [NoahM]
close ACTION-607
19:04:23 [trackbot]
ACTION-607 Find an appropriate way to make available http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2011/02/security-web.html to the Web App Sec working group closed
19:04:30 [NoahM]
ACTION-607?
19:04:30 [trackbot]
ACTION-607 -- Larry Masinter to find an appropriate way to make available http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2011/02/security-web.html to the Web App Sec working group -- due 2011-09-22 -- CLOSED
19:04:30 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/607
19:04:49 [jar]
topic: Hyperlinks and copyright
19:04:56 [Larry]
http://www.w3.org/2011/webappsec/ lists it as an "Input Document"
19:05:04 [NoahM]
Proposal form Jeni for moving forward: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/tag/2011Nov/0045.html
19:05:42 [jar]
jeni: Dan and I met last week re next steps before the F2F.
19:06:15 [jar]
… Asked our experts for feedback; we'll meet in a week or two to go over it
19:06:41 [Ashok]
q+
19:06:45 [jar]
… We'd like to do a long document as rec, supplemented with shorter, more opinionated pieces that highlight particular issues
19:07:33 [jar]
dka: This approach was in reaction to Rigo's TPAC comments
19:07:59 [Ashok]
q-
19:08:13 [Ashok]
q-
19:08:17 [jar]
… but we really felt a doc with broad scope would be a good thing, and a necessary prerequisite for focussed pieces
19:09:56 [jar]
dka: Haven't had much luck getting concrete promises from our experts...
19:10:23 [NoahM]
ack next
19:10:33 [jar]
noah: Is it just Rigo, or do others feel as he does?...
19:11:08 [NoahM]
F2F discussion TBD
19:11:30 [Larry]
ask for public feedback?
19:11:57 [Larry]
ask AC members? if we're not getting feedback we need from a community, don't we have other ways of getting that, than private pleading?
19:12:13 [jar]
noah: I'll look for a F2F proposal for this topic in a couple of weeks
19:12:45 [jar]
ashok: I'm very positive on the short pieces idea, have Jeni & Dan thought about what those would be?
19:13:23 [JeniT]
https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/tag/2011Nov/0045.html
19:14:57 [ht]
+1 to working on public-facing messages at f2f
19:15:03 [jar]
ashok: A goal like, to have 4 pithy messages, would be good
19:15:08 [Zakim]
-ht
19:16:05 [NoahM]
ACTION-541?
19:16:05 [trackbot]
ACTION-541 -- Jeni Tennison to helped by DKA to produce a first draft of terminology about (deep-)linking etc. -- due 2011-11-29 -- OPEN
19:16:05 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/541
19:16:48 [NoahM]
ACTION-541 Due 2011-12-20
19:16:48 [trackbot]
ACTION-541 Helped by DKA to produce a first draft of terminology about (deep-)linking etc. due date now 2011-12-20
19:18:10 [jar]
topic: Administrative
19:20:07 [NoahM]
ACTION-576?
19:20:07 [trackbot]
ACTION-576 -- Jonathan Rees to with help from Henry to figure out impact of RDFa core on generic fragids story, especially in 3023bis -- due 2011-10-11 -- PENDINGREVIEW
19:20:07 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/576
19:20:17 [jar]
topic: Pending review items
19:20:22 [NoahM]
ACTION-509?
19:20:22 [trackbot]
ACTION-509 -- Jonathan Rees to communicate with RDFa WG regarding documenting the fragid / media type issue -- due 2011-11-29 -- OPEN
19:20:22 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/509
19:20:51 [NoahM]
NM: So, 509 and 576 are substantially the same?
19:21:07 [NoahM]
JAR: We can close 576, but there's more to be done on 509
19:21:37 [NoahM]
close ACTION-576
19:21:37 [trackbot]
ACTION-576 With help from Henry to figure out impact of RDFa core on generic fragids story, especially in 3023bis closed
19:22:46 [jar]
jeni: Volunteer to take on 509.
19:22:53 [NoahM]
Assigning ACTION-509 to Jeni and closing ACTION-576
19:22:56 [NoahM]
close ACTION-576
19:22:56 [trackbot]
ACTION-576 With help from Henry to figure out impact of RDFa core on generic fragids story, especially in 3023bis closed
19:23:52 [NoahM]
ACTION-509?
19:23:52 [trackbot]
ACTION-509 -- Jeni Tennison to communicate with RDFa WG regarding documenting the fragid / media type issue -- due 2011-12-13 -- OPEN
19:23:52 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/509
19:24:11 [NoahM]
ACTION-623?
19:24:11 [trackbot]
ACTION-623 -- Larry Masinter to pull together plans for IETF<-> TAG coordination at TPAC -- due 2011-11-03 -- PENDINGREVIEW
19:24:11 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/623
19:24:45 [NoahM]
close ACTION-623
19:24:46 [trackbot]
ACTION-623 Pull together plans for IETF<-> TAG coordination at TPAC closed
19:26:12 [Larry]
note there is now an IETF Application Area Directorate (of which Henry and I are members). (The Directorate was the review board)
19:27:52 [Larry]
http://trac.tools.ietf.org/area/app/trac/wiki/ApplicationsAreaDirectorate
19:32:13 [NoahM]
ACTION: Yves to help Noah figure out best ways, if at all, for TAG to participate in IETF paris Due: 2011-12-20
19:32:13 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-638 - Help Noah figure out best ways, if at all, for TAG to participate in IETF paris Due: 2011-12-20 [on Yves Lafon - due 2011-12-08].
19:32:33 [Larry]
http://www.ietf.org/meeting/cutoff-dates-2012.html#IETF83
19:32:36 [jar]
ADJOURNED
19:32:37 [Zakim]
-Ashok_Malhotra
19:32:39 [Zakim]
-DKA
19:32:40 [Zakim]
-Noah_Mendelsohn
19:32:41 [Zakim]
-Yves
19:32:43 [Zakim]
-JeniT
19:32:43 [Zakim]
-Masinter
19:32:45 [Zakim]
-plinss
19:32:45 [jar]
rrsagent, make logs public
19:32:47 [Zakim]
-TimBL
19:32:49 [jar]
rrsagent, pointer
19:32:49 [RRSAgent]
See http://www.w3.org/2011/12/01-tagmem-irc#T19-32-49
19:32:57 [timbl_]
Tank you everyone esp Noah for chairing
19:33:08 [timbl_]
s/T/Th/
19:33:16 [NoahM]
Thank you Tim!
19:37:47 [Zakim]
disconnecting the lone participant, Jonathan_Rees, in TAG_Weekly()1:00PM
19:37:51 [Zakim]
TAG_Weekly()1:00PM has ended
19:37:53 [Zakim]
Attendees were Masinter, Jonathan_Rees, DKA, Yves, JeniT, TimBL, Ashok_Malhotra, plinss, Noah_Mendelsohn, ht
20:09:14 [noahtest]
noahtest has joined #tagmem
21:24:31 [jar]
jar has joined #tagmem
21:29:54 [Zakim]
Zakim has left #tagmem
21:49:47 [timbl_]
The TAG election will probably run til Ja 9. Cf TAG f2f Jan 4-6