15:58:46 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #rd
15:58:46 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/12/01-rd-irc
15:58:48 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
15:58:48 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #rd
15:58:50 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 7394
15:58:51 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see WAI_RDWG()11:00AM scheduled to start in 2 minutes
15:58:51 <trackbot> Meeting: Research and Development Working Group Teleconference
15:58:51 <trackbot> Date: 01 December 2011
15:59:01 <sharper> Chair: Harper_Simon
15:59:02 <sharper> Agenda+ Welcome & Logistics (Regrets, Agenda Requests, Comments)
15:59:02 <sharper> Agenda+ Final Logistics for Mondays Seminar
15:59:02 <sharper> Agenda+ New Topic Discussion - Lets narrow the pool for the next topic!
15:59:02 <sharper> Agenda+ Any Other Business 
15:59:18 <sharper> zakim, save agenda
15:59:23 <Zakim> ok, sharper, the agenda has been written to http://www.w3.org/2011/12/01-rd-agenda.rdf
15:59:27 <sharper> zakim, take up item 1
15:59:27 <Zakim> agendum 1. "Welcome & Logistics (Regrets, Agenda Requests, Comments)" taken up [from sharper]
15:59:40 <sharper> regrets+ Abou-Zahra_Shadi
15:59:53 <sharper> regrets+ Thiessen_Peter
16:00:02 <sharper> regrets+ Batusic_Mario
16:00:17 <sharper> present+  Brajnik_Giorgio
16:00:26 <sharper> present+ Harper_Simon
16:00:35 <sharper> regrets+ Conway_Vivienne
16:00:43 <sharper> rrsagent, make logs public
16:00:43 <sharper> rrsagent, draft minutes
16:00:43 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/12/01-rd-minutes.html sharper
16:01:07 <sharper> present+ Vigo_Markel
16:01:22 <Zakim> WAI_RDWG()11:00AM has now started
16:01:39 <Zakim> +??P38
16:02:08 <giorgio> hi. is there some reason why there's no audio going on?
16:03:13 <giorgio> I assume that you don't hear me, right?
16:03:18 <markel> markel has joined #rd
16:03:50 <Joshue108> Joshue108 has joined #rd
16:03:58 <Joshue108> zakim, code?
16:04:00 <Zakim> the conference code is 7394 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), Joshue108
16:04:02 <Zakim> +??P55
16:04:18 <Zakim> +??P57
16:04:19 <sharper> zakim, ??P55 is sharper
16:04:20 <Zakim> +sharper; got it
16:04:37 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
16:04:42 <sharper> zakim, ??P38 is giorgio
16:04:45 <Zakim> +giorgio; got it
16:04:48 <Joshue108> zakim, [IPcaller] is Joshue108
16:04:49 <christos> christos has joined #rd
16:04:50 <markel> zakim, ??P57 is markel 
16:04:55 <Zakim> +Joshue108; got it
16:04:57 <Zakim> +markel; got it
16:05:01 <sharper> present+ O'Connor_Joshue
16:05:47 <Zakim> +??P62
16:06:13 <christos> zakim, ??P62 is christos
16:06:26 <Zakim> +christos; got it
16:07:12 <christos> zakim, mute me
16:07:12 <Zakim> christos should now be muted
16:07:30 <sharper> present+ Kouroupetroglou_Christos
16:07:50 <sharper> zakim, close item 1
16:07:50 <sharper> zakim, take up item 2
16:07:51 <Zakim> agendum 1, Welcome & Logistics (Regrets, Agenda Requests, Comments), closed
16:07:53 <Zakim> I see 3 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
16:07:54 <Zakim> 2. Final Logistics for Mondays Seminar [from sharper]
16:07:56 <Zakim> agendum 2. "Final Logistics for Mondays Seminar" taken up [from sharper]
16:08:14 <sharper> MV: try to establish a protocol re Q&A
16:08:28 <sharper> MV: trying to let the panel know what will happen
16:08:49 <sharper> All: discussion re seminar
16:09:11 <Joshue108> zakim, mute me
16:09:11 <Zakim> Joshue108 should now be muted
16:09:18 <sharper> scribe: Harper_Simon
16:09:18 <sharper> ScribeNick: sharper
16:09:22 <Joshue108> zakim, who is making noise?
16:09:33 <Zakim> Joshue108, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: sharper (25%), markel (65%)
16:11:30 <Joshue108> scribe: Joshue
16:11:47 <sharper> .me thanks Joshue
16:12:04 <Joshue108> G: Regarding the protocol, between 3-4 there will be presentations.
16:12:28 <Joshue108> G: As chairs we will explain the proceedure and give several minutes for overviews of papers etc
16:12:39 <Joshue108> G: We don't want to allow questions after each paper.
16:12:46 <Joshue108> G: Maybe save them to the end?
16:12:55 <Joshue108> SH: Thats good.
16:13:01 <Joshue108> G: Otherwise things may slide etc
16:13:18 <Joshue108> G: Papers can be presented in the order they are listed.
16:13:31 <Joshue108> G: Markel, did you make changes?
16:13:45 <Joshue108> M: No
16:14:03 <Joshue108> G: This could lead to ~4 where we can start the panel discussion.
16:14:25 <Joshue108> G: This will be managed by the chairs. Only authors will be allowed to participate in the panel.
16:14:41 <Joshue108> G: We want to sent the questions now to panelists so they can prepare.
16:14:48 <Joshue108> SG: Can you give us them now?
16:14:50 <Joshue108> G: Yes
16:14:52 <markel> Considering your contribution to the symposium, who is or will be the target user of your metrics? for which purposes? Why do you think that your approach will be adopted?
16:15:19 <Joshue108> G: We would like the author to tell us what they think about the applicability of the metric.
16:15:23 <markel> Second question: How do you ensure the validity of your approach? How costly/risky are decisions made on the basis of wrong values of metrics?
16:15:59 <markel> Third question: Do you have any thoughts about how your approach can benefit accessibility in use (a process perspective rather than a product -conformance- one)?
16:16:38 <Joshue108> G: We will ask particpants to tell us what they think.
16:16:54 <Joshue108> G: I think the chairs should remain impartial and take it all in.
16:16:59 <Joshue108> SH: Yes, good idea
16:17:11 <Joshue108> G: Then from 4.30 to 5, Q&A.
16:17:30 <markel> q+
16:18:01 <Joshue108> SH: We have ~ 50 people and there will be a lot of questions to be covered in little time.
16:18:26 <Zakim> -Joshue108
16:18:35 <markel> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3976331/Comments%20of%20symposium%20papers%20-%20editors.odt
16:18:49 <markel> I put the link to the document
16:20:37 <sharper> Intention of having questions is so we can get the authors ideas in the purest form for the W3C Note
16:21:12 <sharper> So the proposal is to...
16:21:25 <sharper> create an agenda thus...
16:21:41 <sharper> Agenda for the symposium on accessibility metrics
16:21:42 <sharper> 15:00-16:00 Presentations
16:21:42 <sharper> 15:00-15:05. Welcome and introduction. 
16:21:43 <sharper> Chairs will explain the procedures and participation protocols. Then, a slot of 5 minutes will be available for each contribution. Slides will be set online so that the audience can look at them while the paper is being presented. Therefore, authors will have to explicitly mention, the number of the slide they are presenting as well as all forward/backward transitions on their slides. There will be no questions after each presentation.
16:21:43 <sharper> Papers will be presented in the following order:
16:21:45 <sharper> 1. Integration of Web Accessibility Metrics into a Semi-Automatic evaluation process. M. Naftali and O. Clúa.
16:21:46 <sharper> 2. Measuring accessibility barriers on large scale sets of pages. M. Battistelli, S. Mirri, L.A. Muratori and P. Salomoni.
16:21:50 <sharper> 3. A Template-aware Web Accessibility metric. N. Fernandes, R. Lopes and L. Carriço.
16:21:52 <sharper> 4. A metrics to make different DTDs documents evaluations comparable. M. Battistelli, S. Mirri, L.A. Muratori and P. Salomoni.
16:21:55 <sharper> 5. Lexical Quality as a Measure for Textual Web Accessibility. R. Baeza-Yates and L. Rello.
16:21:57 <sharper> 6. Attaining Metric Validity and Reliability with the Web Accessibility Quantitative Metric. M. Vigo, J. Abascal, A. Aizpurua and M. Arrue.
16:22:00 <sharper> 7. The case for a WCAG-based evaluation scheme with a graded rating scale. D. Fischer and T. Wyatt.
16:22:02 <sharper> 8. A zero in eChecker equals a 10 in eXaminator: a comparison between two metrics by their scores. J. Fernandes and C. Benavidez.
16:22:05 <sharper> 9. Context-Tailored Web Accessibility Metrics. M. Vigo.
16:22:06 <sharper> 10. Web Accessibility Metrics For A Post Digital World. D. Sloan and B. Kelly.
16:22:09 <sharper> 11. Towards a score function for WCAG 2.0 benchmarking. A. Nietzio, M. Eibegger, M. Goodwin and M. Snaprud.
16:22:11 <sharper> 16:00-16:30 Panel discussion
16:22:13 <sharper> Only chairs and participants will be able to take part. Panel participants will be asked some question in order to know their opinion on certain hot topics about accessibility metrics. For their and chairs' conveniency we ask panelists to have their answers prepared. 
16:22:17 <sharper> Considering your contribution to the symposium, who is or will be the target user of your metrics? for which purposes? Why do you think that your approach will be adopted?
16:22:19 <sharper> How do you ensure the validity of your approach? How costly/risky are decisions made on the basis of wrong values of metrics?
16:22:23 <sharper> Do you have any thoughts about how your approach can benefit accessibility in use (a process perspective rather than a product -conformance- one)?
16:22:26 <sharper> 16:30-17:00 Question and answer open to all participants
16:22:28 <sharper> At this point we can open questions to the audience and can make questions about particular papers or about what has been discussed in the panel discussion.
16:22:33 <sharper> This sounds reasonable to me
16:22:47 <christos> ok
16:23:04 <sharper> So we need to get this out today
16:23:46 <sharper> Q&A may be a little short this time
16:23:58 <sharper> But I think we should go for it in this form for the first one
16:24:23 <giorgio> giorgio
16:24:45 <sharper> Action: giorgio to Send the agenda to the panelists 
16:24:45 <trackbot> Created ACTION-5 - Send the agenda to the panelists  [on giorgio brajnik - due 2011-12-08].
16:25:34 <markel> SH: its better not to extend questions 
16:25:45 <markel> SH: ...we have limited time
16:26:14 <markel> SH: they are ok... otherwise it'd be very dry
16:29:24 <markel> GB: what kind of limitations do you think accessibility conformance metrice have? how can it be improved ?
16:29:34 <markel> GB: could we go beyond that?
16:29:50 <sharper> what is beyond conformance based metrics?
16:30:50 <sharper> http://www.w3.org/WAI/RD/wiki/Benchmarking_Web_Accessibility_Metrics
16:31:53 <christos> q+
16:32:01 <markel> q-
16:32:14 <christos> ack me
16:36:51 <sharper> discussion re accessibility in use
16:39:33 <sharper> MV shall we start 15 minur=tes ealier for the chairs to check it is all OK so we can be ready and start on time
16:41:14 <christos> zakim, mute me
16:41:14 <Zakim> christos should now be muted
16:41:30 <sharper> RESOLVED: Chairs, Shadi, and Simon to be present online and on call 15 minutes in advance of 15:00 (GMT) - and Authors 5 minutes before to set up so we can start at 15:00 GMT prompt.
16:42:03 <sharper> RESOLVED: shadi should be sending us all personal telephones codes too.
16:43:35 <sharper> zakim, close item 2
16:43:35 <Zakim> agendum 2, Final Logistics for Mondays Seminar, closed
16:43:36 <Zakim> I see 2 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
16:43:38 <Zakim> 3. New Topic Discussion - Lets narrow the pool for the next topic! [from sharper]
16:43:42 <sharper> zakim, take up item 3
16:43:42 <Zakim> agendum 3. "New Topic Discussion - Lets narrow the pool for the next topic!" taken up [from sharper]
16:44:02 <sharper> RESOLVED: Park this until next time
16:44:08 <sharper> zakim, close item 3
16:44:08 <Zakim> agendum 3, New Topic Discussion - Lets narrow the pool for the next topic!, closed
16:44:08 <sharper> zakim, take up item 4
16:44:10 <Zakim> I see 1 item remaining on the agenda:
16:44:12 <Zakim> 4. Any Other Business [from sharper]
16:44:13 <Zakim> agendum 4. "Any Other Business" taken up [from sharper]
16:44:17 <christos> ack me
16:44:20 <giorgio> im done
16:44:23 <sharper> RESOLVED No Other Business
16:44:31 <sharper> zakim, close item 4
16:44:31 <Zakim> agendum 4, Any Other Business, closed
16:44:32 <Zakim> I see nothing remaining on the agenda
16:45:01 <giorgio> good idea
16:45:31 <markel> http://www.w3.org/WAI/RD/2011/metrics/
16:46:58 <sharper> bye
16:46:59 <Zakim> -giorgio
16:47:00 <Zakim> -markel
16:47:01 <christos> good bye
16:47:03 <markel> markel has left #rd
16:47:06 <Zakim> -sharper
16:47:16 <Zakim> -christos
16:47:18 <Zakim> WAI_RDWG()11:00AM has ended
16:47:22 <Zakim> Attendees were sharper, giorgio, Joshue108, markel, christos
16:47:36 <sharper> rrsagent, make logs public
16:47:36 <sharper> rrsagent, draft minutes
16:47:36 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/12/01-rd-minutes.html sharper
16:58:24 <sharper> zakim, please part
16:58:24 <Zakim> Zakim has left #rd
16:58:30 <sharper> rrsagent, draft minutes
16:58:30 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/12/01-rd-minutes.html sharper
16:58:38 <sharper> rrsagent, please part
16:58:38 <RRSAgent> I see 1 open action item saved in http://www.w3.org/2011/12/01-rd-actions.rdf :
16:58:38 <RRSAgent> ACTION: giorgio to Send the agenda to the panelists  [1]
16:58:38 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/12/01-rd-irc#T16-24-45