16:50:45 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #htmlspeech
16:50:45 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/12/01-htmlspeech-irc
16:51:45 <burn> trackbot, start telcon
16:51:47 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
16:51:49 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 
16:51:50 <trackbot> Meeting: HTML Speech Incubator Group Teleconference
16:51:50 <trackbot> Date: 01 December 2011
16:51:54 <burn> zakim, this will be htmlspeech
16:51:57 <Zakim> I don't understand 'this will be', trackbot
16:52:03 <Zakim> ok, burn; I see INC_(HTMLSPEECH)11:30AM scheduled to start 21 minutes ago
16:52:13 <burn> Chair:  Dan Burnett
16:52:29 <burn> Agenda:  http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-htmlspeech/2011Nov/0074.html
16:54:09 <bringert> bringert has joined #htmlspeech
16:55:49 <Zakim> INC_(HTMLSPEECH)11:30AM has now started
16:55:51 <Zakim> +Dan_Burnett
16:56:28 <matt> zakim, code?
16:56:28 <Zakim> the conference code is 48657 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), matt
16:56:38 <Zakim> +matt
16:56:40 <Zakim> -matt
16:56:43 <Zakim> +matt
16:57:31 <burn> zakim, who's here?
16:57:31 <Zakim> On the phone I see Dan_Burnett, matt
16:57:32 <Zakim> On IRC I see bringert, RRSAgent, Zakim, burn, matt, smaug, Milan, trackbot
16:59:42 <Zakim> +Michael_Johnston
17:00:15 <Michael> Michael has joined #htmlspeech
17:00:18 <smaug> just a minute
17:01:04 <Zakim> +[Microsoft]
17:01:32 <matt> zakim, Microsoft is Avery
17:01:34 <Zakim> +Avery; got it
17:01:41 <matt> Scribe: Michael
17:02:00 <bringert> satish and I are trying to dial in
17:02:02 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
17:02:13 <matt> zakim, ipcaller is smaug 
17:02:16 <smaug> Zakim, [IPcaller] is Olli_Pettay
17:02:20 <burn> ScribeNick: Michael
17:02:23 <Zakim> +smaug; got it
17:02:27 <Zakim> sorry, smaug, I do not recognize a party named '[IPcaller]'
17:02:28 <burn> Scribe: Michael_Johnston
17:02:29 <smaug> Zakim, nick smaug is Olli_Pettay
17:02:34 <Zakim> sorry, smaug, I do not see a party named 'Olli_Pettay'
17:02:39 <Avery> Avery has joined #htmlspeech
17:02:39 <glen> glen has joined #htmlspeech
17:02:45 <Zakim> +Joseph_Scheuhammer
17:02:48 <DanD> DanD has joined #htmlspeech
17:02:53 <smaug> Zakim, smaug is Olli_Pettay
17:03:03 <Zakim> +Olli_Pettay; got it
17:03:07 <smaug> Zakim, nick smaug is Olli_Pettay
17:03:21 <Zakim> ok, smaug, I now associate you with Olli_Pettay
17:03:22 <Zakim> + +1.408.359.aaaa
17:03:35 <ddahl1> ddahl1 has joined #htmlspeech
17:03:38 <burn> zakim, aaaa is Glen_Shires
17:03:51 <Zakim> +Glen_Shires; got it
17:04:03 <Zakim> +Dan_Druta
17:04:22 <burn> zakim, who's on the phone?
17:04:35 <bringert> zakim, Joseph_Scheuhammer is Bjorn,Satish
17:04:43 <Zakim> On the phone I see Dan_Burnett, matt, Michael_Johnston, Avery, Olli_Pettay, Joseph_Scheuhammer, Glen_Shires, Dan_Druta
17:04:46 <Zakim> +Charles_Hemphill
17:04:57 <Zakim> +Bjorn,Satish; got it
17:05:08 <Zakim> +Debbie_Dahl
17:06:42 <Michael> topic: discussion of where work should continue
17:07:09 <Michael> danb: few weeks back difference of opinion on where work should continue
17:07:30 <Michael> bjorn: We've discussed internally how we'd like to proceed with the Speech XG proposal, and concluded that the best way to get wide feedback and implementation would be to take it to the W3C WebApps WG. The WebApps WG is a good fit because all major browser-vendors and lots of independent web-developers are already involved, providing the necessary diverse perspective and buy-in. To keep the discussion manageable and within the scope of the WebApps WG, we
17:07:56 <Michael> bjorn: I. A scripting-only subset supports the vast majority of the use-cases and samples in the XG proposal.
17:09:52 <Michael> bjorn: Webapps group has wide participation from browser vendors
17:10:07 <Michael> bjorn: have done many programmatic apis
17:10:22 <Michael> bjorn: first step to post specification to webapps
17:10:36 <Michael> satish: we reached out to chairs
17:11:04 <Michael> satish: heard back from one of them, arthur ???, sounded interested but no guarantee, they are rechartering just now
17:11:16 <ddahl1> s/???/barstow
17:12:12 <Michael> glen: from both chairs, while back said could be a good fit
17:13:06 <matt> [[Everyone has to rejoin after rechartering.]]
17:13:06 <Michael> satish: reached out to browser vendors, already in there
17:13:38 <glen> Arthur Barstow, webapps chair, has responded, saying timing is good
17:13:53 <Michael> burn: working still on report
17:14:36 <Michael> matt: if new ip is added could affect recharter
17:17:14 <Michael> burn: other chair is charles mccaffey neville
17:17:31 <Michael> satish: last year charles said he and some people at opera might be able to participate
17:17:46 <Charles> Charles has joined #htmlspeech
17:18:38 <Michael> bjorn: can take it there for feedback before adding to charter
17:18:53 <Michael> burn: make clear report is not final yet
17:19:10 <Michael> burn: once final everyone is free to distribute to whichever group they think may be interested
17:19:32 <glen> s/charles mccaffey neville/Charles McCathieNevile/
17:20:25 <Michael> burn: we should be able to keep the list as a place to hold comments
17:21:45 <Michael> avery: could still go forward with original plan and still get feedback from webapps working group by keeping them involved and attending as observers
17:22:02 <Michael> burn: tend to agree is not an either or
17:22:35 <Michael> burn: no harm in having discussion in multiple places
17:22:48 <Michael> avery: webapps have wide charter
17:22:56 <Michael> avery: attention diluted
17:23:09 <Michael> bjorn: smaller slice of a bigger cake
17:23:23 <Michael> satish: hoping all with participate and move it along
17:24:01 <Michael> bjorn: not much time on call but time on mailing list
17:24:14 <Michael> bjorn: largely in mailing list
17:24:25 <smaug> right now webapps doesn't have conf calls
17:24:42 <Michael> olli: webapps right now does not have conference calls
17:27:32 <Michael> michael: APIs listed are more core web programming, DOM, events, XMLhttprequest, not seeing anything in there like speech
17:27:47 <Michael> michael: websockets is there but your proposal is just to take the scripting there
17:29:20 <Michael> danD: keeping focus, audio group has more significant impact on our decisions in speech, dependencies on DAP
17:29:53 <Michael> danD: new and innovative web technology, will dilute value in webapps group
17:30:20 <Michael> bjorn: why lose focus
17:30:53 <Michael> danD: another tool in toolbox but easily buried among all that is in webapps
17:31:03 <Michael> bjorn: more of a marketing of spec issue
17:31:07 <Michael> danD: that is a part of it
17:31:55 <Michael> bjorn:marketing is super important, does not bear on working group we are in
17:32:09 <Michael> satish: find talk times in developer conferences
17:33:35 <Michael> satish: file api, has its own top level uri
17:33:52 <Michael> bjorn: argue webapps makes work more visible
17:34:50 <glen> * we could agree to a keyword like [speech] that we all put in the title of emails, to make it easy to filter all emails from WebApps
17:34:53 <Michael> olli: would be ok to put a small part in webapps, filesystem part is not reviewed at all
17:35:09 <Michael> olli: does not guarantee feedback
17:35:45 <Michael> olli: not a lot of attention to widget apis
17:39:50 <smaug> ...but wouldn't object a separate group either
17:41:03 <Michael> michael: another option is to have a coordinating group, our work needs to reach out to IETF for the protocol to webapps for the api, possible requirements to multimodal for EMMA
17:41:29 <Michael> glen: so standards work would be outside of the coordinating group
17:41:50 <Michael> bjorn: focus on script API, protocol is separate matter
17:42:04 <burn> web app charter liaison:  http://www.w3.org/2010/webapps/charter/Overview.html#coordination
17:43:36 <Michael> burn: looking at what would need to be added, audio, streaming media
17:44:11 <Michael> bjorn: seems like reasonable things to add
17:44:47 <Michael> avery: have to be careful working with IETF, end up working with 2 or 3 individuals who know what they are doing,
17:45:02 <Michael> and 100 tire kickers that slow the work
17:45:11 <Michael> avery: sip as example
17:45:43 <ddahl1> "protocols and formats" is a WG under the web accessibility initiative (WAI), so it means "protocols and formats for accessibility". WAI has other WG's, for example, they have an "education and outreach" group
17:45:52 <Michael> bjorn: valid concern
17:47:45 <Michael> bjorn: could have web side drowned out by more speech people
17:47:55 <Michael> avery: not sure staging it there is the right place
17:48:59 <Michael> charles: limit to scripting, is there any tag work there
17:49:06 <Michael> bjorn: not sure if there is no tags
17:49:37 <Michael> charles: want to get feedback on tag work from web developers
17:49:52 <Michael> bjorn: bring whole spec to webapps at first
17:50:44 <Michael> satish: we were first to suggest markup 
17:50:55 <Michael> bjorn: might have to be done in separate batch
17:53:12 <Michael> michael: concern about moving forward with scripting without protocol work
17:53:46 <Michael> glen: protocol in ietf and scripting in other group, would have to be separate anyway
17:54:06 <Michael> michael: not sure that peer to peer coordination will work or whether we need coordinating group
17:54:26 <Michael> burn: need large overlap between the groups
17:55:24 <Michael> michael: webrtc and rtcweb, two groups that work well together
17:55:57 <glen> webrtc is W3C, rtcweb is IETF
17:56:34 <Michael> michael: have to remain in sync, since the app is real time communication
17:57:50 <Michael> burn: disagreements in rtc work about how to transmit coordinated media
17:58:45 <Michael> danD: want to make sure that remote speech engine is selectable by the developer
18:00:24 <Michael>  burn: need to continue to be developed together
18:01:05 <Michael> bjorn: want to avoid mutual dependency where hold up in protocol would hold up the script api
18:01:25 <Michael> burn: need large overlap in groups working on both so they are kept in sync
18:02:19 <Michael> michael: want to avoid going back to place where speech input to google page on ie goes to microsoft and bing speech traffic on chrome goes to google
18:03:44 <Michael> burn: meta level, start sending stuff to webapps, can also start process of creating a charter, does not necessarily end up in forming a group
18:04:58 <Michael> burn: doesnt mean there are not technical discussion
18:07:20 <Michael> michael: need to avoid losing the momentum the HTML+SPEECH group has had this last period
18:07:45 <Michael> michael: webapps could accelerate but could also slow down
18:08:04 <Michael> michael: tremendous amount of work has happened in the incubator
18:08:21 <Michael> burn: planning for 15 minute call next week
18:08:44 <Michael> burn: we should wait to distribute until the report is finalized
18:09:18 <Michael> bjorn: wait for that then post once it is tidied up
18:09:57 <Zakim> -Olli_Pettay
18:10:02 <Zakim> -Bjorn,Satish
18:10:03 <Zakim> -Avery
18:10:04 <Zakim> -Debbie_Dahl
18:10:04 <Zakim> -Glen_Shires
18:10:06 <ddahl1> ddahl1 has left #htmlspeech
18:10:07 <Zakim> -Dan_Druta
18:10:18 <Zakim> -Charles_Hemphill
18:10:31 <matt> zakim, who is on the phone?
18:10:31 <Zakim> On the phone I see Dan_Burnett, matt, Michael_Johnston
18:10:34 <matt> zakim, drop me
18:10:34 <Zakim> matt is being disconnected
18:10:35 <Zakim> -matt
18:10:35 <Zakim> -Michael_Johnston
18:10:37 <Zakim> -Dan_Burnett
18:10:38 <Zakim> INC_(HTMLSPEECH)11:30AM has ended
18:10:40 <Zakim> Attendees were Dan_Burnett, matt, Michael_Johnston, Avery, Olli_Pettay, +1.408.359.aaaa, Glen_Shires, Dan_Druta, Charles_Hemphill, Bjorn,Satish, Debbie_Dahl
18:10:54 <burn> rrsagent, make log public
18:10:57 <burn> rrsagent, draft minutes
18:10:57 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/12/01-htmlspeech-minutes.html burn
18:11:20 <burn> s/, +1.408.359.aaaa//
18:11:42 <burn> s/, matt/, Matt_Womer/
18:12:18 <burn> s/, Avery/, Avery_Bishop/
18:12:51 <burn> s/, Bjorn,Satish,/, Bjorn_Bringert, Satish_Sampath/
18:13:05 <burn> rrsagent, draft minutes
18:13:05 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/12/01-htmlspeech-minutes.html burn
18:15:42 <burn> s/Satish_SampathDebbie_Dahl/Satish_Sampath, Debbie_Dahl/
18:15:49 <burn> rrsagent, draft minutes
18:15:49 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/12/01-htmlspeech-minutes.html burn
18:16:24 <burn> s/Satish_Sampath_Debbie_Dahl/Satish_Sampath, Debbie_Dahl/
18:16:29 <burn> rrsagent, draft minutes
18:16:29 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/12/01-htmlspeech-minutes.html burn
18:17:35 <burn> s/Satish_Sampath Debbie_Dahl/Satish_Sampath, Debbie_Dahl/
18:17:41 <burn> rrsagent, draft minutes
18:17:41 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/12/01-htmlspeech-minutes.html burn
19:01:31 <trackbot> trackbot has joined #htmlspeech
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20:29:19 <Zakim> Zakim has left #htmlspeech