IRC log of gld on 2011-11-28

Timestamps are in UTC.

14:04:00 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #gld
14:04:00 [RRSAgent]
logging to
14:04:23 [PhilA2]
cygri: Are you on the call?
14:04:27 [olyerickson]
zakim, who is on the phone?
14:04:27 [Zakim]
On the phone I see olyerickson (muted), PhilA2, +26006aabb, rreck (muted), Makx, raphael, GeraldSteeman, martin (muted), +90700006aacc
14:05:01 [olyerickson]
@PhilA nope
14:05:01 [George]
George has joined #gld
14:05:14 [Zakim]
14:05:28 [cgueret]
how do you know what's your number with a voip phone?
14:05:37 [olyerickson]
@cygri hi! ;)
14:05:40 [PhilA2]
zaki, who is here?
14:05:46 [PhilA2]
zakim, who is here?
14:05:46 [Zakim]
On the phone I see olyerickson (muted), PhilA2, +26006aabb, rreck (muted), Makx, raphael, GeraldSteeman, martin (muted), +90700006aacc, cygri
14:05:49 [Zakim]
On IRC I see George, RRSAgent, martin, BenediktKaempgen, atemezin, GeraldSteeman, olyerickson, danbri, cgueret, Makx, rreck, HadleyBeeman1, Zakim, PhilA2, cygri, trackbot, sandro
14:05:50 [fadmaa]
fadmaa has joined #gld
14:05:52 [cygri]
zakim, BenediktKaempgen is with me
14:05:52 [Zakim]
+BenediktKaempgen; got it
14:06:04 [rreck]
cgueret: i just look who it shows joins when i join
14:06:16 [PhilA2]
Topic: DCAT
14:06:22 [PhilA2]
Current version at
14:06:54 [olyerickson]
Q's for DCAT:
14:06:57 [olyerickson]
1. Stable?
14:07:06 [olyerickson]
2. What it will take for DCAT to be stable?
14:07:16 [cygri]
14:07:31 [olyerickson]
cygri: Will recap
14:07:35 [cygri]
14:07:44 [olyerickson]
... see pages linked above
14:07:57 [olyerickson]
... esp. use cases DCAT is designed to address
14:08:26 [olyerickson]
... history: Emerged from work at DERI
14:08:41 [PhilA2]
scribe: olyerickson
14:08:52 [olyerickson]
... based on existing data catalogs incl
14:09:08 [PhilA2]
zakim, room for 2 more?
14:09:08 [Zakim]
I don't understand your question, PhilA2.
14:09:14 [olyerickson]
... DERI compared sites, tried to capture "common core"
14:09:23 [olyerickson]
... moved work into eGov IG
14:09:42 [olyerickson]
... Weekly ccalls, input, review of use cases
14:09:51 [PhilA2]
zakim, how many ports available now?
14:09:51 [Zakim]
on Mon Nov 28 09:09:00 2011 I see overbooked, overbooked 30 minutes later, and overbooked 60 minutes later
14:10:04 [olyerickson]
... Have seen increase in adoption
14:10:55 [PhilA2]
cygri: Lists several existing users of DCAT (UK, ES etc.)
14:11:12 [PhilA2]
... used by OKFN for federated catalogue etc
14:11:27 [rreck]
i can drop and let hadley join
14:11:29 [PhilA2]
.. progress on spec hasn't kept pace wtih implementation
14:11:46 [rreck]
im just a lurker
14:11:50 [hadleybeeman]
Thanks, rreck— but no worries. I can catch up later.
14:12:35 [PhilA2]
cygri: As for how stable it is? Since we have given the work to the GLD, it's as stable as this community wants it to be
14:12:47 [PhilA2]
... if it becomes a Rec then it needs to go through the process
14:12:55 [PhilA2]
... open to feedback from the community and so on
14:13:31 [PhilA2]
... there would be voices along the way saying that X, Y and Z is missing/shouldn't be there and so on
14:13:47 [PhilA2]
... personal speculation - the core of DCAT is nothing new but Dublin Core
14:13:56 [olyerickson]
... regarding stability, depends on influences at this point (adoption => stable, input => improve it)
14:14:03 [PhilA2]
... vast majority of properties from DC, SKOS and FOAF - they are completely stable
14:14:15 [PhilA2]
scribe: PhilA2
14:14:29 [PhilA2]
cygri: DCAT assembles existing properties and recommends they're used
14:14:49 [PhilA2]
... DCAT only adds a limited number of fairly simple things beyond these exitsing properties
14:14:59 [PhilA2]
.. only a few extra ones not found in DC etc.
14:15:22 [PhilA2]
... may or may not be relevance to otehr catalogues
14:15:33 [olyerickson]
... Handle of additional properties
14:15:44 [olyerickson]
14:15:51 [PhilA2]
... catalogue 'Distribution' etc. and a few classes/conectors
14:16:22 [olyerickson]
... Introduces new classes...."no brainer" ... reeeeally straighforward
14:16:33 [PhilA2]
... Catalogue record may be a little less obvious as right
14:16:49 [PhilA2]
... but dataset and distribution shouldn't cvhange as you see them everywhere
14:16:54 [olyerickson]
... DCAT reflects structure/org seen in most catalogs
14:17:11 [PhilA2]
... has some conventions and bits of vocab to deal with different distributions of the datasets
14:17:32 [olyerickson]
... describes not only metadata but also HOW TO ACCESS
14:17:47 [PhilA2]
scribe: olyerickson
14:17:59 [olyerickson]
... a bit more complicated than it might appear
14:18:10 [olyerickson]
... are different distributions the same, different?
14:18:21 [olyerickson]
... what is a "download?" an "API?" etc
14:18:38 [olyerickson]
... Current DCAT version is a "reasonable" draft of a design
14:18:47 [olyerickson]
... but it can be improved
14:19:07 [olyerickson]
... e.g. how to classify distributions, what are the properties on a distribution, etc
14:19:28 [olyerickson]
... summary: this is cygri's take on where DCAT makes a contribution
14:19:34 [MacTed]
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14:19:51 [olyerickson]
... cygri would like to see: GLD produce a doc that is "in line" with current DCAT docs
14:20:08 [olyerickson]
... need more than vocab ref, but also an application/implementation guide
14:20:32 [olyerickson]
... perhaps use cases/requirements (depends on interpretation of GLD charter)
14:21:05 [olyerickson]
... cygri would like to see vocab ref doc to be produced ASAP
14:21:18 [olyerickson]
... need colunteers
14:21:30 [olyerickson]
... cygri would love to, but can't
14:21:48 [olyerickson]
NOTE: I can co-edit but not solo-edit
14:22:38 [olyerickson]
... cygri's perceived identification w/ DCAT might have slowed down progress
14:23:03 [olyerickson]
... Welcomes others to pick it up and take it through The Process(tm)
14:23:08 [fadmaa]
I am glad to co-edit as well
14:23:26 [BenediktKaempgen]
14:23:36 [PhilA2]
ack BenediktKaempgen
14:23:42 [olyerickson]
PhilA: please use Q+ for questions
14:23:55 [olyerickson]
Q: What is the relation between DCAT and Void, etc
14:24:25 [olyerickson]
cygri: TBH, they have different core focii
14:24:45 [olyerickson]
... void is metadata for RDF datasets
14:24:56 [olyerickson]
... DCAT is about any datasets
14:25:14 [olyerickson]
... both have been developed independently
14:25:35 [olyerickson]
... void cand dcat are different projects, diofferent use cases
14:26:00 [olyerickson]
... void is about different distribution of a DCAT dataset
14:26:23 [olyerickson]
... not sure where the best place is to write this up
14:26:27 [cygri]
14:26:34 [martin]
14:27:01 [olyerickson]
14:27:32 [olyerickson]
PhilA: Proposes that he and olyerickson work together to get docs into "working draft" format
14:27:43 [olyerickson]
... there is a process but
14:28:08 [olyerickson]
... given the existing drafts, there are steps that we should get past fairly quickly
14:28:25 [olyerickson]
... but PhilA might be in cloud cookie land
14:28:28 [stasinos]
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14:28:58 [olyerickson]
... given that, a working draft produced ca Xmas, candidate draft not long after
14:29:29 [olyerickson]
... TWC RPI IOGDS will be aligned with DCATp proposal shortly
14:29:59 [olyerickson]
... So: candidate recommendation stage not long away...npt a drawn-out process at this point
14:30:19 [olyerickson]
cygri: Big advantage that so much work has already gone into this
14:30:37 [olyerickson]
... we are not starting from scratch
14:31:05 [olyerickson]
PhilA: Also will serve as a sign of GLD WG progress
14:31:22 [olyerickson]
Topic: ADMS
14:31:50 [olyerickson]
Introducing Makx Dekkers
14:31:59 [PhilA2]
ADMS = Asset Description Metadata Schema
14:32:27 [olyerickson]
... "Interoperability Assets"
14:32:34 [PhilA2]
Current draft of ADMS is in a PDF at
14:32:42 [olyerickson]
For background in Makx see:
14:33:06 [olyerickson]
... DCAT could be an interoperability asset
14:33:12 [PhilA2]
ADMS designed to describe code lsist, specifications etc. as well as datasets in the DCAT sense
14:33:25 [olyerickson]
... ADMS is about finding common way to describe such assets
14:33:41 [olyerickson]
... ADMS starts with defining conceptual model
14:33:57 [olyerickson]
... closely follows how DCAT looks at things
14:34:16 [olyerickson]
... that's because it's a "no brainer" ;)
14:34:36 [olyerickson]
... first round: "conceptual model"
14:35:03 [olyerickson]
... examining existing vocabs, "picking and chosing" properties and relationships
14:35:24 [olyerickson]
... challenge: implementing as both RDF vocab and XML schema (ugh...)
14:35:28 [PhilA2]
me, Makx and Andrea Perego of JRC (cf. INSPIRE) already looking at using DCAT as basis for ADMS classes and properties
14:35:52 [olyerickson]
... classes, entities, properties, relationships
14:36:17 [olyerickson]
... Second part of document: identifying controlled vocabs that require agreement
14:36:25 [olyerickson]
... e.g. asset types
14:36:32 [olyerickson]
... files formats
14:36:34 [olyerickson]
... status
14:36:37 [olyerickson]
... etc
14:37:19 [olyerickson]
... ADMS provides model with classes that is consistent with DCAT... trying to not invent new vocab terms
14:37:52 [olyerickson]
... trying to create bettwe way of linking information provided in one env. with info in another
14:38:04 [olyerickson]
... agressive timeline (next week!)
14:38:35 [olyerickson]
... reminder: this is the first stagge; WG draft next week, published for public comment early next week
14:38:39 [olyerickson]
14:39:04 [olyerickson]
... after pilot phase, expected to re-visit
14:39:27 [olyerickson]
... looking to align ADMS work with DCAT work (existing and moving forward)
14:39:45 [olyerickson]
PhilA: ADMS provides another example of implementation
14:40:08 [olyerickson]
... EU will say, "when you publish pub. information, you *will* use ADMS"
14:40:25 [olyerickson]
... everything is headed in the right direction
14:40:35 [olyerickson]
... thus far, no resistance to using DCAT
14:40:50 [olyerickson]
... so far, no bias against DCAT
14:41:05 [olyerickson]
... Looks like more evidence that DCAT is useful et all
14:41:21 [olyerickson]
@PhilA my pleasure ;)
14:41:46 [olyerickson]
PhilA: ADMS timeline is agressive but will help move things along
14:42:02 [olyerickson]
... W3C publishing moratorium
14:42:22 [olyerickson]
14:42:31 [olyerickson]
zakim, unmute me.
14:42:31 [Zakim]
olyerickson should no longer be muted
14:42:32 [PhilA2]
ack olyerickson
14:42:42 [PhilA2]
olyerickson: Extremely exciting
14:43:25 [PhilA2]
olyerickson: Glad that work should help with W3C process
14:43:49 [PhilA2]
olyerickson: some concern over speed, getting unfinished business into DCAT
14:43:59 [atemezin]
@Olyerickson:--it is difficult to follow you on the phone...
14:44:05 [PhilA2]
... getting some of the things that should logically be with DCAT
14:44:17 [olyerickson]
14:44:32 [Zakim]
- +90700006aacc
14:44:40 [cygri]
14:44:47 [PhilA2]
olyerickson: concerned about getting last minyute changes into DCAT
14:44:57 [PhilA2]
... don'think it's much of a prob but is Primary concern
14:45:07 [PhilA2]
... things like dct:language
14:45:10 [PhilA2]
ack cygri
14:45:14 [olyerickson]
zakim, mute me.
14:45:14 [Zakim]
olyerickson should now be muted
14:45:26 [PhilA2]
cygri: responding to John
14:45:33 [Zakim]
+ +34.00.0.aadd
14:45:46 [olyerickson]
cygri: given the timeline, focus the 1sr working draft on what's already there
14:45:55 [olyerickson]
... don't get into changing things
14:45:56 [PhilA2]
... given the time line, might make sense FPWD focus on what's already there without too much work on what might change in future
14:46:02 [olyerickson]
... olyerickson: makes sense!
14:46:15 [PhilA2]
cygri: if there's only 2-3 weeks then that might be all that we can do
14:46:17 [PhilA2]
14:46:22 [olyerickson]
... cygri: simply getting it into W3C style will be enough of a challenge
14:46:38 [olyerickson]
... also, remember it is the 1st public working draft
14:46:51 [olyerickson]
... no time for additions/modifications
14:47:06 [olyerickson]
... then it will go through the W3C "machine:
14:47:19 [olyerickson]
... as it draws attention, it will get feedback
14:47:29 [PhilA2]
ack me
14:47:30 [olyerickson]
... purpose is to but a flag in the ground
14:47:36 [olyerickson]
+1 to that, thanks!
14:48:01 [olyerickson]
PhilA: In no way will ADMS or other work shortcut the W3C process
14:48:27 [olyerickson]
... *if* we are inundated with feedback, we will still follow the W3C process
14:49:05 [olyerickson]
... ADMS needs an "indication" of what's coming, doesn't require/depend on that
14:49:12 [olyerickson]
+1 PhilA thanks
14:49:35 [olyerickson]
PhilA: Summary: ADMS not trying to replace etc DCAT. more about support
14:50:14 [olyerickson]
PhilA: Do the people on phone need calls?
14:50:46 [olyerickson]
cygri: not sure if dedicated calls needed
14:50:52 [olyerickson]
... sees the advantages
14:51:18 [olyerickson]
... but still some searching in main GLD call
14:51:29 [olyerickson]
... at the moment, overload GLD call
14:51:44 [olyerickson]
+1 to using GLD call bandwidth for this untilw e get kicked out
14:52:19 [BenediktKaempgen]
14:52:25 [olyerickson]
... also concerned about DCAT work being taken out of GLD
14:52:31 [PhilA2]
ack BenediktKaempgen
14:53:20 [cygri]
cygri: no very strong opinion either way
14:53:34 [olyerickson]
BenediktKaempgen: Could have DCAT work discussed in task forces we expect to break out of GLD
14:53:59 [olyerickson]
... there will be community directory, standard vocabs, etc
14:54:18 [olyerickson]
PhilA: Hearing a concensus (I agree with what they said BTW)
14:54:54 [atemezin]
+1 to what @Benedikt said..
14:54:54 [olyerickson]
... of the Chairs feel the weekly calls are being overloaded, then it would be sensible to take them into separate calls
14:55:02 [olyerickson]
@PhilA nope
14:55:30 [olyerickson]
zakim, unmute me.
14:55:30 [Zakim]
olyerickson should no longer be muted
14:56:07 [olyerickson]
ACTION: PhilA and olyerickson to begin work on community draft
14:56:07 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-24 - And olyerickson to begin work on community draft [on Phil Archer - due 2011-12-05].
14:56:56 [olyerickson]
PhilA, can you ro9ll up the minutes?
14:57:05 [olyerickson]
14:57:10 [atemezin]
14:57:15 [Zakim]
- +34.00.0.aadd
14:57:16 [rreck]
14:57:16 [Zakim]
14:57:17 [Zakim]
14:57:19 [Zakim]
14:57:20 [Zakim]
- +26006aabb
14:57:20 [Zakim]
14:57:22 [BenediktKaempgen]
14:57:22 [Zakim]
14:57:25 [Zakim]
14:57:31 [PhilA2]
rrsagent, make logs public
14:57:45 [olyerickson]
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14:57:57 [Zakim]
14:58:37 [PhilA2]
meeting: GLD Ad-hoc meeting to discuss vocabularies, esp. DCAT
14:58:54 [PhilA2]
meeting: adjourned
15:00:05 [HadleyBeeman]
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15:02:32 [martin]
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15:03:19 [PhilA2]
meeting: GLD Ad-hoc meeting to discuss vocabularies, esp. DCAT
15:20:22 [PhilA2]
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15:32:41 [Zakim]
15:33:06 [Zakim]
Team_(gld)14:00Z has ended
15:33:07 [Zakim]
Attendees were olyerickson, +569006aaaa, PhilA2, +26006aabb, rreck, raphael, GeraldSteeman, +90700006aacc, martin, Makx, cygri, BenediktKaempgen, +34.00.0.aadd
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